JoshuaA Posted October 15, 2016 Report Share Posted October 15, 2016 7 minutes ago, Coaster Jamie said: How long was the queue for Vampire out of interest? One train is very poor, especially when you consider that the only other ride in the area is closed so that will have an effect on the number of people on Vampire. It was around 40 minutes, but the queue seemed to build up due to the sluggish movement of the queue. It was a off peak day to be fair, but one train on a coaster with a bad throughput is just awful, and they where slow with loading the one train.. Coaster 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster Posted October 15, 2016 Report Share Posted October 15, 2016 1 hour ago, imindetonator said: It was around 40 minutes, but the queue seemed to build up due to the sluggish movement of the queue. It was a off peak day to be fair, but one train on a coaster with a bad throughput is just awful, and they where slow with loading the one train.. 40 minutes is worthy of a second train IMO, especially at a park like Chessington where there aren't enough coasters to cope with the crowds. A shame to hear that they weren't hurrying as well. JoshuaA 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian-S Posted October 15, 2016 Report Share Posted October 15, 2016 They never hurry, they're too interested in chatting each other up or swapping nightclub reviews, even on a busy summer day with two trains and a two hour queue the second train was still sat on the brake run for a few minutes while they flaffed about loading people. Then to make matters worse the batcher was getting annoyed with people for taking too long to get to the air gates, well if he had started batching people earlier instead of chatting.... Coaster and JoshuaA 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster Posted October 15, 2016 Report Share Posted October 15, 2016 1 minute ago, Ian-S said: They never hurry, they're too interested in chatting each other up or swapping nightclub reviews, even on a busy summer day with two trains and a two hour queue the second train was still sat on the brake run for a few minutes while they flaffed about loading people. Then to make matters worse the batcher was getting annoyed with people for taking too long to get to the air gates, well if he had started batching people earlier instead of chatting.... It's beyond me how operations can be that bad... I mean with Chessington it literally feels like someone's said "right, we need to make operations as slow as possible." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeah Posted October 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2016 2 hours ago, Coaster Jamie said: the only other ride in the area is closed so that will have an effect on the number of people on Vampire. Not necessarily, you dont have to go to Transylvania after all, if someone who doesn't want to go on Vampire but does Bubbles without knowing it's closed they're not just going to go on Vampire instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterio Ka Posted October 15, 2016 Report Share Posted October 15, 2016 Not sure if I was at the same park then imindetonator, I was at vamp and asked the person at the fast track split why they were only running 1 train and they said if it stays busy they would add another, and I came back a bit later and there wasn't a queue. At all. There were 2 guys on platform and the op was on it, and I don't think I've seen quicker 2 people checking bar dispatches this season.. Having said that it'd been nice to see it have 2 trains as the queue did fluctuate massively throughout the day, ranging from 60 minutes - 10 throughout the entire day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaA Posted October 15, 2016 Report Share Posted October 15, 2016 23 minutes ago, Mysterio Ka said: Not sure if I was at the same park then imindetonator, I was at vamp and asked the person at the fast track split why they were only running 1 train and they said if it stays busy they would add another, and I came back a bit later and there wasn't a queue. At all. There were 2 guys on platform and the op was on it, and I don't think I've seen quicker 2 people checking bar dispatches this season.. Having said that it'd been nice to see it have 2 trains as the queue did fluctuate massively throughout the day, ranging from 60 minutes - 10 throughout the entire day. I was at Vampire at around mid-day so they might of added another train towards the end of the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveJ Posted October 15, 2016 Report Share Posted October 15, 2016 2 hours ago, Coaster Jamie said: It's beyond me how operations can be that bad... I mean with Chessington it literally feels like someone's said "right, we need to make operations as slow as possible." This did indeed happen in the wake of the Alton Towers accident. The policy briefed out to staff from top level management were "Guests no longer want to see high throughputs and low queues from our attractions, they want to see safety, even if it means a perception of safety by slowing operations down and looking more purposeful. And if there is any concern, slow the ride operations down." There was no clear way to implement such a thing, other than make it an excuse for more inefficient operations and longer queues, it was just more nonsense to try and put up a front about the accident. The actual physical things and procedures that made operations sometimes chaotic or mishandled (like up to 4 queues all feeding into a small station that wasn't designed for it, too many exit queues, too small platforms, adhoc staff procedures, difficulty of communication, poor quality ride throughputs by design, overkill of Fastrack, bodge job repairs on things like Skyway) were left unchanged, staff just became slower and that didnt help anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted October 15, 2016 Report Share Posted October 15, 2016 It's a definite excuse, unfortunately there's obviously ways to have good throughputs AND a sense of safety, but of course improving throughputs doesn't help sell fastrack so the park is pretty much screwed... SteveJ and pognoi 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster Posted October 15, 2016 Report Share Posted October 15, 2016 4 hours ago, Archive said: This did indeed happen in the wake of the Alton Towers accident. The policy briefed out to staff from top level management were "Guests no longer want to see high throughputs and low queues from our attractions, they want to see safety, even if it means a perception of safety by slowing operations down and looking more purposeful. And if there is any concern, slow the ride operations down." There was no clear way to implement such a thing, other than make it an excuse for more inefficient operations and longer queues, it was just more nonsense to try and put up a front about the accident. The actual physical things and procedures that made operations sometimes chaotic or mishandled (like up to 4 queues all feeding into a small station that wasn't designed for it, too many exit queues, too small platforms, adhoc staff procedures, difficulty of communication, poor quality ride throughputs by design, overkill of Fastrack, bodge job repairs on things like Skyway) were left unchanged, staff just became slower and that didnt help anyone. That's a nonsense excuse from Chessington, if they were 100% certain that they were operating rides safely then there would be no reason to slow down operations. In my opinion slowing down operations for "safety" makes it look like they have no confidence in their rides or staff, which actually makes them appear more unsafe - the rides there have run on much higher throughputs for years without any issues, so unless safety standards are worse, why would they have to implement such a strategy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveJ Posted October 15, 2016 Report Share Posted October 15, 2016 Because of the perception of a minority of guests. Such " perception" would, of course, not matter if staff were trained better (practical training, NOT just more mandatory hours reading paperwork, which doesn't improve anything), stations and platforms were redesigned to now cope with the way they are being used, and there was more effective CCTV to prove against false claims. All that, although I see it as being essential, would cost them money and so they don't consider it, with the exception of better CCTV which did thankfully get implemented across Merlin parks. Last year there were also slew of complaints about bars not being checked or people being let on under the height limit, which were all false, but there were many threats from newspapers to publish such stories in the wake of the accident. Unfortunately this exploitation by some people also contributed to the policy that high throughput operations were "no longer safe", even though it is a ridiculous notion and any understanding theme park operator wouldnt accept that. However Merlin are obsessed with PR and so as long as guests perceive that slower operations = higher safety, then that suited them. In reality, most guests just want to get on the damn ride and have fun. The correct procedure would obviously be to take a step back and take a fresh sensible and core approach to park operations, for much better efficiency and pragmatism, instead of dressing up weird cheap & adhoc decisions as "improved H&S standards". Coaster, Ian-S and Matt 236 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 Or like when Chessie also thought that staff constantly interacting with guests would be better than throughput... Any operator knows that after 45/60 minutes queuing guests do not really care (or at least, I don't) for the inane forced chatter of "how's your day been?" and what not... Yes I'm still enraged about that stupid time the staff wouldn't dispatch Fury because of the 'flag your arms' crap... It's been going rapidly downhill for years, hidden first behind guest interaction and now safety... Wonder what the training procedures are like these days... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveJ Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 5 hours ago, Benin said: Wonder what the training procedures are like these days... Sit in a room reading an instructions & risk assement booklet for an enormous amount of minimum hours on your own (Oh Smiler crash? Triple the hours they spend reading the booklets then!). Then work straight on the ride with someone rechecking the bars for you for another set of time, followed by someone ticking boxes with a clipboard watching you. Also take home a big booklet general to Chessington on the whole about health & safety procedures. 'Training' ought to be directed teamwork running rides with an instructional team, practicing efficiency, safety and awareness actually at the ride- practical training after hours, backed up by a theory test and assessment. Not the other way round, with the vast majority of training comprising of reading a frayed booklet over and over until the minimum hours are up. Practical training sessions after hours would cost in keeping staff longer than what the park has budgeted for though, so they don't do it. So instead staff learn through peer-teaching and booklet reading, with very little contact with team leaders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 I do remember a portion of reading (more so for an operator) and then a fair amount of shadow work before an actual verbal and visual test with a TL back in the day... Only real flaw there would be depending on the individual you shadowed as well as the trainee's attitude... Sounds like the push towards theoretical stuff (which NEVER works in practice, especially in a theme park environment) has completely killed it... SteveJ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chessiekid Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 I was operating there back in 2013/14 so left before The Smiler incident so I would imagine things have probably changed a bit. I remember having to do like 12 hour practical hours before being able to operate Tomb Blaster and Rattlesnake then on top of that it was 2 hours reading a COSWP. There was also a theory test and practical test. The emphasis still then was massively on H&S and interactivity, getting high throughput's was never really encouraged at all. We were always told (much to my annoyance) "Make sure you are taking your time with your checks and showing guests safety is the number one priority." At rides like Rattlesnake we would only have 6 cars running yet it seemed like there was constantly 2 cars stacking (Again this infatuated me) because attendants were moving as slow as snails, constantly worried that they had got the slightest of things wrong. In my second season especially the environment seemed to be one of fear over disciplinary action for using your incentive instead of sticking to the book. SteveJ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt 236 Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 Hearing of Vampire now increasingly running one train is both disappointing and unacceptable. My girlfriend (who used to work at Chessington and operate Vampire) mentioned how the ride around 2006 used to have a dispatch target of around 30 seconds. A time in which guests would be unloaded and reloaded. This was used especially when all three trains were in use, achieving a throughput of 900-1000PHH. Sadly cannot see dispatches ever becoming that efficient again especially considering the further complicated station layout and further enthasis and safety procedures (which others have mentioned above). This is before considering the ride's age and the Smiler accident which make things even more complicated. I believe it was 2011 time when Vampire was decommissioned from ever using three trains again and I feel the way things are going, we will be lucky to see it operating two now, let alone three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HermanTheGerman Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 1 hour ago, Matt Creek said: I believe it was 2011 time when Vampire was decommissioned from ever using three trains again and I feel the way things are going, we will be lucky to see it operating two now, let alone three. Three trains weren't decommissioned per-say, its still perfectly safe to do so. Simply everyone's favorite man Graham McGrath decided "guests would rather wait a little longer than have their ride paused mid-way through", which of course is completely tortured logic. But hey, it stuck, so now train two doesn't exist, mwhahaha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeah Posted October 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 12 hours ago, Benin said: Or like when Chessie also thought that staff constantly interacting with guests would be better than throughput... Any operator knows that after 45/60 minutes queuing guests do not really care (or at least, I don't) for the inane forced chatter of "how's your day been?" and what not... Id actually disagree here. I think its great when staff members start talking to you, after all its better than just ignoring you or being rude. EDIT: Also, I thought Vampire ran three trains over the summer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveJ Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 At the cost of getting you on the ride? By the time you get on the platform, you really do just want to get on the ride and not be asked "How is your day going" for the 10th time by young adults who couldn't actually care less. Good staff can interact brilliantly and not let it affect ride operations or destroy the themed environment. One good thing Graham McGrath did do was ban operators singing over the ride PAs - funny for staff but unbelievably tacky. I remember well around 2007 The Vampire music (back when you could hear it and it played with oomph through more than 1 speaker) was constantly being muted one day by a clueless operator who was being funny by caling out "Ladels and jellbeans - may I have your attention!" and it was the worst thing in the land. Except I also remember staff being trained with the ethos that "People come here for the rides, but without staff the rides are just boring - its the interaction that makes their day". Ha ha 'the rides are just boring' and underpaid staff members chatting to you is apparently more worth the entrance fee. Fix the rides so they're not boring then. If the managers saw the same park 20 years ago theyd probably not believe their eyeballs. Matt 236, Imagineer, Ian-S and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 Is it rude for say, platformers to do their actual job (I.e. Check restraints, get people on/off rides) over asking asinine questions to guests as they stand at the airgate? Like, very few parks have any form of guest interaction aside from roles which involve the chance to do so, such as F&B, entertainment (lol as if we have that department anymore), maybe an exit/disabled host if they have a chance... Ride platform is not one of them... On 3 train Vampire you didn't have time to do that rubbish... A busy staff member shows much more to guests after a 45 minute queue than one with a forced smile and question... Also I know exactly who Archive means, grade A pot from a salad restaurant... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeah Posted October 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 No no no, I mean the batchers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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