pluk

Just gonna quote this so that we can look back in 2 year's time and see.
 
(NB: I'm not saying it will be SBNO, but given the situation, there's a solid chance it will be...or even removed..)

I don't think I've seen anyone say a park "needs" themed areas to be a theme park. (Also every inch of Efteling is themed so I dont know what you mean there)

Like you say it's all about enjoyment. What I mean is, Thorpe Park makes for a terrible immersive style Phantasialand theme park, whenever it tries and fails to be that, but as a more simple stylish, throwaway kinda theme park it could be great fun!  (that's kind of how it was in the past as a family park anyway)

Currently it's a very bad, not very enjoyable mish mash. The park is very grubby and uncool but tries to look slick and stylish. They try to force 'themed areas' and themed experiences when there aren't any, rather than focus on making the park look appealing or have any identity. A few surf boards and painted wood doesn't make a great park

Some of the ride themes are ok on their own, but most are depressing, cheap and all shoved together in a weird mess

I really don't know why they thought Derren Brown was a good idea for Thorpe, it was the last thing all that money needed spending on in my opinion.
 

Frankly it's impossible to see it - or any VR attraction - operating for the foreseeable future, so yes, it will be SBNO.
 
After the Derren contract is up, who knows, but there's no such thing as being to young/new to be SBNO.

While the correct answer to what should have been built instead of BDGTROTD is 'anything', thinking about what we could have had for that much money is heartbreaking really. I've no doubt a small scale ride based on the Spiderman ride system could have been in reach, or any number of other options. That money can't be unspent, the opportunity has gone.

Anyone else thinking that DBGTROTD is going to be the big casualty on opening post Coronavirus? 
 
I can't envisage a time in the next few years when people are going to be happy sticking something over their face that some other sweaty punter has just removed? Considering it's an absolute dog in any case do we think they'll take it as an opportunity to out it out if it's misery in its current form and turn it into a VR free immersive tunnel, or just rip it out completely and put a proper ride in its place?

Second ever ride on the train for me today, first in its ROTD guise.
 
It's fair to say there have been improvements over the first effort.
- The sound is hugely better and isolating
- The graphics seem smoother, if just as low quality
- The second ride VR section is much better than playstation 1 apocalypse
- The post show incident gives the ride its only opportunity to provide an actual scare, and goes some way to delivering it
 
But it is nowhere near enough to save this utter turkey
- Throughput is minuscule, queuing is ssllllooooowwwww and not close to worth the reward of riding
- The staff approach is all over the place. Real aggressive introduction about phone use, not sure if that is supposed to be a 'character' or just a real obnoxious way to make a point?
- The second room 'pre-show' immediately prior to the train entrance is downright bizarre. A stumbling attempt to be jokey, bring someone from the front to the back, do nothing with them, clap them(?), bang a door, go through the door. WOT? A pre-boarding stall I imagine, but just in every way possible from pacing to storytelling to atmosphere to point, utterly wrong. 
- The 'middle-show' is immeasurably worse. The old concept of being in a tunnel with no obvious way out and simulate a train approaching was actually a really good idea poorly done. Walking into a dark room where nothing happens before being turned round to walk back out of it is a really bad idea poorly done. Getting on and off the train doesn't even make sense in the narrative any more.
- The second VR I can't quite get my head around. Augmented reality would have been hugely better rather than pretend augmented reality, but whatever. This breaks the fourth wall of suspension of belief the ride is asking us to make; the whole point seemed to be that the hyper reality of the simulation of being on a train would be the driver behind messing with your mind in that relate-able, mundane situation. You are now looking at people, like you, who are clearly on a theme park ride of a train, not an actual underground train. What am I supposed to do with this in the context of the narrative? 
- While we are on the second VR, the image quality as a whole is better than it was, but why is the main character we are supposed to scared of so poorly defined? For the most part it is an indistinguishable fuzzy blob floating around the screen about as menacingly as a rain cloud.
- The laboured situation and 'acting' to hold people in the post-show goes a long way to ruining an otherwise decent effect. They may as well put up a big flashing sign saying 'wait a mo, something else is going to happen'. There must be a better, more natural way.
 
Overall, there is no getting away from the fact that the whole thing is an ACTUAL TRAIN SIMULATOR. Not a rocket to the moon. Not a flight on an X wing. Not dive in a submarine. Not a time travelling jump in a Delorean. Why? I can get on a train, I don't need it simulated. I want fantasy. There is nothing fantastical about this Ghost Train.
 
I honestly do not think it is rescuable. It's sad, but the whole concept is so deeply flawed I really feel the best thing to do would be to rip it out and start again. At the moment it is just a very expensive way to damage your brand and reputation.

So due to boredom I have decided to make a thread to rank the Merlin Parks. This will be by recent investments and just how each park fall in the hierarchy.
I think this will be a lot harder than Cedar Fair and Six Flags as Merlin is pretty even with their parks tbh.  I'm gonna be ranking all of the abroad parks but I will lump the Legoland's into one category because ranking them individually would take a while. 
 
A Tier: Alton Towers
Easily the most loved Merlin Park. When this park receives a coaster, its usually very high quality and unique.
They usually have good in between years to boot, with constant money being thrown into their hotels, the resort, and into their family and kiddie offering.
This year's addition is a real good example of a solid intermediate investment and Wickerman back in 2018 was an amazing investment for the park.
This park is only behind Legoland in attendance in the UK, and with that you can expect a great new coaster here soon.
 
B Tier: Legolands (all of 'em)
These parks are absolutely everywhere. There is 9 currently, and more are coming. They are really a strong point for Merlin, they draw in a lot of families and must make the company a stupid amount of money. They have a simple but fun IP, and they usually receive a fair amount of investment to keep the masses of families coming in. These usually are not coasters, but if you look at Legoland Windsor's investments in the past 10 years its surprisingly respectable. A bunch of brilliant medium sized investments that give the park a pretty decent lineup of dark rides.
As stated, Legoland Windsor has the highest attendance in the UK, these parks bring in the crowds.
 
C tier: Gardaland
I was going back and forward for this placement, but then I saw Gardaland's attendance and nearly spat out my coffee.
I think this park gets kinda overlooked due to its shaky coaster lineup, but Gardaland drew in 2.9 million people in 2018. That is a incredible amount in comparison to other Merlin Parks.
The park hasn't received a big coaster since 2015, though the additions certainly haven't been bad either and I could see this getting some good investment in the future. No wonder the park decided to add 2 B&M's to this place with gate figures like that..
 
Heide Park:
This park has had decent investment in the past decade, actually pretty much ditto to Gardaland. Other than that they revived their Intamin pre-fab woodie, so that was cool I guess.
I think with Colossus back this park is very ready to continue to compete with Hansa down the road. Though it is lower than Gardaland due to its attendance not being as impressive.
 
D Tier:
Chessington:
Chessington have had a decent enough past 5 years or so to keep them out of rock bottom. Now this park just generally is a smaller park and I think is seen as such by Merlin.
Recently they have been improving their old rides (bar Tomb Blaster) and dragging them into the modern era. Tiger Rock is a fun redo of Dragon Falls, and Gruffalo is much better than Bubbleworks was in its final years. They received a mini log flume this year, and next year they are replacing the problematic Rameses with a fun looking drop tower. Overall Merlin seems to be interested in keeping this park decent and fresh enough. Even if its just with small rethemes or small additions. Either way its a much better position to be in that the park below it.
 
F Tier:
Thorpe Park:
If I made this list in 2012, this would be A Tier. Every investment they have gotten since then has lead this park to its current state. 
What has the park done since 2012? Added a huge failed mess of a dark ride, added another room to it that sometimes works as a good finale? Lost their best family ride in Loggers, lost their second best family ride in X by converting it to something scary which now means their mild Vekoma coaster is now back to low ridership..
Basically a whole lot of nothing. And the park seems really like the last in the queue for any major investment in the future. It is a shame as the park has a pretty relaxed location when it comes to permits, and the park has a fair amount of space they could utilise if they wanted to. But this park I think will remain the park that receives small investments that fail in the long-haul (Black Mirror next yay!)
 
Anyway feel free to rank the parks,
I'm interested to see what people's opinions are. I think Merlin parks are actually quite hard to rank tbh, as investment wise they kinda spread out their money. Like Thorpe is at the bottom of my list but that could change big time in 5 years.
 

While the correct answer to what should have been built instead of BDGTROTD is 'anything', thinking about what we could have had for that much money is heartbreaking really. I've no doubt a small scale ride based on the Spiderman ride system could have been in reach, or any number of other options. That money can't be unspent, the opportunity has gone.

Funny how just 1 year later those "early days" were gone and the graphics infinitely improved. Swap out "early days" for "cheapest option" and you'd be more correct

An interesting question with a few answers.
 
First off, to answer you concern: it was nothing to do with it being "too extreme". There wasn't enough serious complaints from guests who did it to warrant its removal. Frankly, I don't even know if there were any complaints - everyone knew what they were getting themselves in for. These sorts of experiences have a niche market (albeit, Thorpe and Towers' alone experiences expanded and simultaneously watered-down the niche).
 
A short answer: There wasn't a strong enough drive internally to get it to come back.
Devising the experience takes time (it wasn't simply "actors do whatever they want"), and there was no one who was in a position (in terms of the time-commitment required) to create it. There had been some backlash from actors about the experience who didn't feel comfortable doing it (something I'll go into later), plus it could add another hour onto an already very long day, where they have to work 10x harder. Those two together meant it just wouldn't get off the ground.
 
A long answer: Less of an answer, and more of a story..
Face it Alone came about in 2013, with the park trying to diversify their line up and really focus on becoming a bigger, better and more unique Halloween event. The Lionsgate IP bought in the brands and the interest, completely refreshing the concept of Fright Nights. They tried new maze concepts: choices (Cabin in the Woods) and outdoors (Blair Witch Project). They introduced a (sadly poorly received) overnight experience, which was trendy at the time, and pushed forward with the Face it Alone: an extreme and an alone experience in one; again something which was trending and on the up in the scare industry at the time.
 
For anyone that did it in 2013, you'll no doubt know that every experience was different. The actors were given a scope of things they could do, boundaries they could push and ideas they could toy with. It was free-reign, but it gave the actors a much freer realm to work in. Another important thing to note is that Face it Alone wasn't particularly popular in 2013. People were unsure what exactly it was, whether it was worth the £15, etc. You could also choose which maze to experience. Which all in all meant it was easier to organise, give a personal touch, etc.
 
When 2014 came along, the experience changed somewhat. Whilst it was still 'extreme', the actors stuck to much stricter roles. Basically, actor 1 did x to you, actor 2 did y to you, etc. By no means a bad thing (if planned correctly, this can be a very good thing), just different. Again, this year you could choose your own maze and, whilst it had gained popularity, it was still pretty calm.
 
2015 is when everything changed, and was arguably the beginning of the end. Face it Alone became a much bigger spectacle. Gone were the days of choosing your own maze, and it was instead replaced with the Roulette Ceremony by Big Top. A great idea in fairness, and one that many enjoyed. This meant it garnered more attention and became much more popular, and went outside of the niche. Already teetering on the edge here.
 
2015 did go back to 2013's free realm style too. There were clearly things that certain actors had to do at certain points to progress you through the experience, but in between actors had a very large scope of what they could do.
 
The next thing with 2015 was the overt sexualisation of the experiences. It's probably not suitable to discuss the details on a public forum, but many things done within the experiences weren't scare tactics, they were simply there sexualised things made to make people feel uncomfortable, humiliated and uncertain. This was the first year that a safe word was introduced too. Safe words do appear in many extreme attractions, but I don't think it's a coincidence that a safe word appeared at the same time the sexualised content of Face it Alone occurred. 
 
This was a completely different direction to what had happened before. Whilst Face it Alone may have featured things like nudity/being tied up/etc - ie things that COULD be sexualised - they never WERE. By doing so, it adds a very different tone. And this tone meant that people were enjoying these experiences in a very different way. There were plenty of times that people within Face it Alone experiences were asking for certain things to be done to them so that they could 'get their money's worth' and be satisfied with the experience. These sorts of things had happened in previous years, but not to the degree they had happened in 2015. This, unsurprisingly, led to some actors being rather uncomfortable with the experience.
 
Come 2016, things had been toned down again. It went back more to 2014's "carbon copy" style experience. Originally it led to some complaints that it wasn't as extreme. I think one issue was that the 2015 version of Face it Alone had created a following of people who hadn't experienced extreme attractions outside of Face it Alone, so they had a very set idea of what should happen. When this didn't happen, it lead to that sort of backlash. Getting the balancing act right likely proved hard. And yet there were still people asking for certain things to be done to them, etc.
 
Then 2017 came along, there had been a feeling of discomfort for a while from some actors. The experience had expanded too far out and wasn't something that could be controlled and marketed as it should. People changed roles. The amount of work required to hit that sweet spot was ever-growing, for perhaps diminishing returns. Fright Nights also focused on The Walking Dead, and AMC are known for very strict guidelines about their attractions. Working out a Face it Alone experience for those mazes would have been near-on impossible. So everything together just meant it didn't happen, and it hasn't returned since.
 
And that's that. New external IP, internal concerns and arguably a bit of apathy/running out of steam all really finished it off.
 
 
Maybe in the future it can return. With the AMC contract disappearing soon that would help. Seeing the extreme version of Creepy Caves at Chessington being a success probably helps. But it requires a lot of work, a lot more than many perhaps realise and appreciate. And I'm not sure I could see it happening soon.

Anyone else thinking that DBGTROTD is going to be the big casualty on opening post Coronavirus? 
 
I can't envisage a time in the next few years when people are going to be happy sticking something over their face that some other sweaty punter has just removed? Considering it's an absolute dog in any case do we think they'll take it as an opportunity to out it out if it's misery in its current form and turn it into a VR free immersive tunnel, or just rip it out completely and put a proper ride in its place?

Prior to launch in 2016, the park drew up a rough contingency plan for what would happen if the VR totally failed. And I mean totally failed. As in they got to a point where using VR was a complete impossibility, and they *had* to get the ride open. It was a rough plan, and I doubt the park ever would have truly considered it, but it effectively made use of planted actors (who would become 'infected' by the gases and turn crazy), the screens near the top of the carriages to communicate a story and a more 'live' experience in generally. As I say, and as far as I understand, this was very much a quick and rough plan drawn up in case absolutely everything failed, but wasn't exactly considered as a serious option.
 
It would certainly be feasible for the park to implement something like this. It effectively just requires to hiring of extra actors and the writing of more scripts. Again though, I highly doubt the park actually would do this, especially given the feedback to the ride so far.
 
Ghost Train was meant to have more effects that did not make it into the ride. Leg ticklers I believe were bought but never installed, for example. The point early on in the process where the windows were meant to be screens is another example. These things are much harder to solve and introduce retrospectively too.
 
What does this means for Ghost Train's future though? I believe the Derren Brown IP contract is multiple years (6 I heard). Whether there's any break in the contract is anyone's guess. Obviously things like a global pandemic aren't top priorities to be talked about when drawing up contracts for IPs for rides. So it would be interesting to see what happens. But then, what do they do with the space? Do they totally gut it out and put something new inside? Transform the ride system into some form of immersive tunnel (which, with the ride system currently in place isn't impossible, but likely expensive)? Completely remove the whole thing? They *could* leave it SBNO and transform the inside for Fright Nights attractions, but again that's costly and also leaves a giant elephant in the room.
 
Another potential issue: could there be a negative public reaction to the theme of the ride? If you piece and twist it together, it's all about a respiratory thing causing illness. In this day and age, I could see some people trying to twist it...
 
In my opinion, it's very hard to see Ghost Train opening in the mid-term. Certainly not this year, even if the park reopens. If we work on the timeframe of no vaccine till autumn next year, it's hard to see it reopen next year. After that, the contract could be up.
 
There's the more global problems as well about what this means for VR in the entertainment and leisure industry in general. But also, what about 3D rides? It's less of a problem as they've been around a lot longer and cleaning them is easier. But I still reckon many people will feel less comfortable wearing them. And it does mean parks have to be more careful and thorough washing them (and I'm sure there's plenty of parks who aren't..). That's going to be an interesting step for the industry.
 
So yeah, tl;dr. I can't see Ghost Train reopening any time soon. A true reimagining of it will cost millions to do well. They're left with a giant elephant in the room which completely screws them up any way.

I think the Ghost Train could not function without VR. It relies on it so much, the main VR sections are dull with VR, without VR they would even more bland.
I honestly cannot think of a route to make this into an attraction that will be sustainable for the park. In some of my last visits the attraction seems to be fairly unpopular for a fairly new ride, and the queue it did have made sense considering the ride is unreliable and never seems to achieve a decent throughput.
 
If I were Thorpe I would just completely start again. I would keep the building but everything inside would be completely removed. I really think this attraction on the whole is just a mistake. Anyway here is a few outcomes that I see with DBGT.
 
The VR sections are just kinda of skipped through. The attraction is turned into a makeshift scare maze which is fun but will be unpopular and removed in a couple of years time The attraction is closed due to 'hygiene' reasons that is blamed on coronavirus. The attraction sits SBNO until further notice.  The attraction briefly reopens, but closes down in a year or two due to low popularity and is SBNO until Merlin want to use that space again The attractions operates, but operates with limited capacity and limited hours to cut costs and parts of the attraction are compromised because of its low ridership. Maybe like only open it on weekends, after 12am opening, closures on quiet months.  
 

Anyone else thinking that DBGTROTD is going to be the big casualty on opening post Coronavirus? 
 
I can't envisage a time in the next few years when people are going to be happy sticking something over their face that some other sweaty punter has just removed? Considering it's an absolute dog in any case do we think they'll take it as an opportunity to out it out if it's misery in its current form and turn it into a VR free immersive tunnel, or just rip it out completely and put a proper ride in its place?

It looks incredible because it is incredible. Can't wait to take my daughter there later this year for her first ever theme park experience. I'll happily be driving right on by Chessington and Legoland to get there.

Yes, this is true. The reasons include:
-A decrease in visitors compared to 2011. Despite the fact that 2011 was one of Thorpe's busiest and most profitable (and so, in that sense, 'best') years ever, Swarm still had to deliver an increase. It didn't, so Merlin saw Swarm as a failure, and immediately lost faith in whatever their thought process was behind that direction.
-Weak brand. Swarm didn't capture people's imagination. It was very generic and not very recognisable. The end of the world vibe was overdone and it merged in with so many other things that went for that.
-Experience didn't match marketing. For one reason or another, people expected an intense thrill ride, similar to Saw. Instead, Swarm offered a much more graceful experience, leading people to be disappointed. 
 
So basically, people had minor niggles about the ride, and less people visited Thorpe (which would have happened regardless). So, Merlin see it as a failure. Despite that, in the long term it's done a good job, is less generic these days and scores very highly in KPI scores, which Merlin love. So it's been a slow burner. But Merlin's model doesn't allow for slow burners.
 
 
Just a couple more to add:
 
Derren Brown's Ghost Train
Going for a dark ride over a coaster was always a risk, but it was one which needed to be done in my opinion. Sadly, DBGT missed every single possible mark, which really damaged the park. It did attract attention, and it did cause attendances to rise. But it damaged the park's reputation by so much more than the worth of a few thousand visitors. Two big investments in a row that failed is a big recipe for disaster. You need a sure-fire win after that; something with minimal risk. But when everything is spiralling downwards, the pressure is even great, and the amount of risk you take has to decrease. Ultimately it leaves us in the situation we're in now: the best way to minimise risk is to not take a risk at all. Can't lose money if you don't spend money, right?
 
Terrible Non-Big Investments
You have to go all the way back to 2007 when the park added a solid non-big investment, in Flying Fish. Arguments can be made for Storm Surge (diversifies the line up and added a much needed family ride) and Walking Dead (a solid scary-themed indoor attraction at the end of the day). I guess you could say 2013 with turning X forwards but that slipped under the radar with the focus on Swarm backwards. But I think Flying Fish is the last one where someone would struggle to come up with a reasonable negative for it. Since then, we've had short term investments, based off fads or needless IPs, which have led to a mish-mash of identities and ideas, and nothing which has really improved the line up.
 
This is coupled with a lack of general upkeep in the existing parts of the park. The bare minimum was done to rides, theming, presentation, etc., which eventually led to rides closing, theming being taken away, etc. 
 
Focusing too much on Scares
Fright Nights works for the park. Regardless of its quality, it's still the busiest, best received, and most profitable time of year for the park, year in year out. The park tried to capitalise on that and make it work all year round (which, in fairness, isn't too unreasonable). It worked with Saw - The Ride, because that was handled properly. Saw Alive was a nice idea and helped absorb the busyness whilst it was full time. After that, Thorpe should have quit whilst they were ahead.
 
Scare attractions don't work outside of Halloween in a theme park setting. Scary stuff doesn't work outside of Halloween in a theme park setting. One thing to compliment a line up, yes. But an overarching focus on it? No. Yet Thorpe didn't realise this. They didn't learn that in 2005 when Freakshow 3D was dead during summer because no one cared. They didn't learn that after Saw Alive's popularity dwindled in 2012. They didn't learn after Swarm. They didn't learn after Ghost Train. They probably haven't learnt after The Year of The Walking Dead. 
 
Keep scares for Fright Nights, and focus on a diverse line up.
 
Not Learning Lessons
Related to above, Thorpe make the same mistakes again and again. This likely comes down to management seemingly being a revolving door, especially in more recent years. A new person comes in, tries something, it doesn't work, leave. A new person comes in, tries that same thing in a different disguise, it doesn't work, leave. Repeat. They need to take a step back, look at what they've done for the past 15 years and realise what hasn't worked, and what has worked, and start building from that.

Similar to Europa Park and their drone footage last week, Paultons have done the same. Looks such a well kept and aesthetically pleasing park. 
 
 

5) Thorpe Park TPM meet 2013. There was something just so special about this trip. Whether it was the fact it was snowing, freezing cold, the most awesome people on a trip or just everything put together I don't know but it was just brilliant. To Peaj and Dara riding Tidal Wave and being drenched for the rest of the day or sitting in Calypso BBQ with hot chocolates and coffees. 
 
4) Disneyland Paris Fandaze 2018. The end of the 25th anniversary celebration really but this was a trip where many rare characters made an appearance as well as meeting the (at the time) CEO of Disneyland Paris, Catherine Powell. It was a long day but a fantastic one.
 
 
3) Europa Park 2006. I met my future husband on this trip so it has many, many special memories for me. Travelling through Rust to the Lidl from the Tipi village. Getting drunk in a field and several of us falling into a lake. Getting on Silver Star for the first time. Travelling the diamond mine and avoiding the bears, seeing the metal dragon. Such a great trip.
 
 
2) Walt Disney World 2011. When building up to Florida, it was Universal and Seaworld that I wanted and craved. But once the trip was over it was the Disney parks that captured my heart. This was the trip where my boyfriend and I were chosen to be in the Jammin' Jungle Parade which was utterly wonderful. I'll need forget this amazing trip.
 
 
1) Chessington 1998. I wasn't an enthusiast of any kind, I was just really obsessed with them. I used to draw pictures of the Vampire with its classic bat trains all the time. This was a trip long time coming and I remember sitting outside the Bubbleworks, eating my McDonalds and looking up and watching this beautiful train swoop through Transylvania. It caught my attention and has shaped my theme park life really. To this day I love the Arrow suspended rides but Chessington is where it all started.

So this came around much quicker than usual. 
 
who’s looking forward to the 2021 season? 🤣

You were three when the original Chessington classic went. I was four. God I miss the Fifth Dimension. 

From reviews it seemed like a generally successful day for Chessington, bar the 1 hour queue for RAP, ironic do people really need these or just see them as a free fast track, same with carer passes, I wonder if people just see that as free entry nowadays.
 
On another note I saw a post about allowing a full train of RAP users to drop queue times, is this not theoretically an operations nightmare if something went wrong, I thought you were only allowed 1 RAP holder on any ride at a time for safety and evacuation issues.
 
Doesn't seem like these issues will go away soon now either with  RAP passes being valid til the end of 2021.
 

Refreshingly honest if you ask me. And I'm no big fan of Boris!
 
Regardless of what they do people will die who may not have done if they didn't have a the virus.  Just like many things, people pick up all sorts which finish them off that ultimately could be prevented if people didn't come into contact with each other or extreme measures were out in place to stop them. You could ban alcohol, processed foods, tobacco, cars etc etc and wipe out incredible amounts of 'untimely' death, but it's generally accepted the loss of enjoyment, freedom and economic activity would be too bigger cost for the result. The same thing is happening here but within a shorter timeframe.
 
Playing state activity off against risk to life might be an unsavoury thought but it is happening constantly, and has to. Even in my lowly position in it all in my training, for terrorist response especially but a lot of major incident response, you have to make some dreadful decisions that will ultimately condemn people where you use your resources in the most effective way. Not everyone can be saved from everything, you have to do what's best with a much wider outlook.
 
The decisions that are being made are made on the advice of medical experts, and with a hell of a lot more information than will be available to the rest of us, they're not just pulling the decisions out of their arses. Even if in some aspects with hindsight we get it wrong I think they are making the right decisions for the right reasons.

Refreshingly honest if you ask me. And I'm no big fan of Boris!
 
Regardless of what they do people will die who may not have done if they didn't have a the virus.  Just like many things, people pick up all sorts which finish them off that ultimately could be prevented if people didn't come into contact with each other or extreme measures were out in place to stop them. You could ban alcohol, processed foods, tobacco, cars etc etc and wipe out incredible amounts of 'untimely' death, but it's generally accepted the loss of enjoyment, freedom and economic activity would be too bigger cost for the result. The same thing is happening here but within a shorter timeframe.
 
Playing state activity off against risk to life might be an unsavoury thought but it is happening constantly, and has to. Even in my lowly position in it all in my training, for terrorist response especially but a lot of major incident response, you have to make some dreadful decisions that will ultimately condemn people where you use your resources in the most effective way. Not everyone can be saved from everything, you have to do what's best with a much wider outlook.
 
The decisions that are being made are made on the advice of medical experts, and with a hell of a lot more information than will be available to the rest of us, they're not just pulling the decisions out of their arses. Even if in some aspects with hindsight we get it wrong I think they are making the right decisions for the right reasons.

Refreshingly honest if you ask me. And I'm no big fan of Boris!
 
Regardless of what they do people will die who may not have done if they didn't have a the virus.  Just like many things, people pick up all sorts which finish them off that ultimately could be prevented if people didn't come into contact with each other or extreme measures were out in place to stop them. You could ban alcohol, processed foods, tobacco, cars etc etc and wipe out incredible amounts of 'untimely' death, but it's generally accepted the loss of enjoyment, freedom and economic activity would be too bigger cost for the result. The same thing is happening here but within a shorter timeframe.
 
Playing state activity off against risk to life might be an unsavoury thought but it is happening constantly, and has to. Even in my lowly position in it all in my training, for terrorist response especially but a lot of major incident response, you have to make some dreadful decisions that will ultimately condemn people where you use your resources in the most effective way. Not everyone can be saved from everything, you have to do what's best with a much wider outlook.
 
The decisions that are being made are made on the advice of medical experts, and with a hell of a lot more information than will be available to the rest of us, they're not just pulling the decisions out of their arses. Even if in some aspects with hindsight we get it wrong I think they are making the right decisions for the right reasons.

Refreshingly honest if you ask me. And I'm no big fan of Boris!
 
Regardless of what they do people will die who may not have done if they didn't have a the virus.  Just like many things, people pick up all sorts which finish them off that ultimately could be prevented if people didn't come into contact with each other or extreme measures were out in place to stop them. You could ban alcohol, processed foods, tobacco, cars etc etc and wipe out incredible amounts of 'untimely' death, but it's generally accepted the loss of enjoyment, freedom and economic activity would be too bigger cost for the result. The same thing is happening here but within a shorter timeframe.
 
Playing state activity off against risk to life might be an unsavoury thought but it is happening constantly, and has to. Even in my lowly position in it all in my training, for terrorist response especially but a lot of major incident response, you have to make some dreadful decisions that will ultimately condemn people where you use your resources in the most effective way. Not everyone can be saved from everything, you have to do what's best with a much wider outlook.
 
The decisions that are being made are made on the advice of medical experts, and with a hell of a lot more information than will be available to the rest of us, they're not just pulling the decisions out of their arses. Even if in some aspects with hindsight we get it wrong I think they are making the right decisions for the right reasons.