SteveJ

They might be worth more than we think, but yes, the only reason anyone would buy them is for sentimental reasons.
Opening up my 2001 Thorpe Park map is like going in a time machine, because I instantly remember how I used to perceive the park. There's Tidal Wave and Logger's Leap drawn to look like they are 200ft tall, old rides long since removed and of course the promise of a "10 looping coaster coming in 2002" - and the mystery of not knowing what it would be. It is an extremely different sensation to what Thorpe Park is like today, so it's not really the map itself I find special, it's the reminder of the past.
Even with the old Alton Towers maps I feel like I know the park as it was years ago. For example, there are endless mentions of "the magic" throughout the 90s, but then abruptly the imagery turns sterile when Tussaudes was bought by DIC. Also, there's Toyland Tours being marketed on par with Nemesis as "new for '94", as if they expected both rides to be as popular as each other, and totally forgotten things like Peter Rabbit on Ice being a flagship attraction. Then Oblivion comes along and the park's whole brand image suddenly changes, now using computer drawn images, 3D logos, with a big new emphasis on thrills, and you realise what a change of direction Oblivion was.

A collection of all the old Chessington maps since 1994 sold for about £70 a while ago.
I have all the Thorpe Park maps since 2001 and Chessington since 2002, which I collected myself over the years. Also Alton Towers maps since 1994, of which those pre-2003 I bought. The most I have paid was £13 for the 1998 map. So.. I guess I'm stupid!
But they are an amazing representation of the park's development and full of theme parky imagery. I really like the older hand-painted ones, as you can spot little visual jokes the artist has hidden in the picture.

Long before Storm Surge, Octopus Gardens and the adjacent Thorpe Mega Store (I think it was a themed restaurant at some point) had quite a lot of figures dotted around like this. By the time I knew the park, this octopus had long gone, but I found this great video of the sculptor making it.
He also made that odd statue that is now situated in Loggers Leap. You can see it was originally intended for somewhere else that I don't recognise... is it Trapper's Trail where Slammer now is?

There are more videos on his website, including many iconic Chessington sculptures, like the dragon tunnel and the carved Buddha faces from Dragon River.

A collection of all the old Chessington maps since 1994 sold for about £70 a while ago.
I have all the Thorpe Park maps since 2001 and Chessington since 2002, which I collected myself over the years. Also Alton Towers maps since 1994, of which those pre-2003 I bought. The most I have paid was £13 for the 1998 map. So.. I guess I'm stupid!
But they are an amazing representation of the park's development and full of theme parky imagery. I really like the older hand-painted ones, as you can spot little visual jokes the artist has hidden in the picture.

The farm area has now been partially flooded due to the infilling of islands for the likes of Swarm; it's been the park's designated 'flood zone' if you will for ages now. All of the buildings that are there remain as they are Grade I listed I think, but they've probably just been left there really. I remember some pictures were posted a year or two back, and a fair amount had been flooded; more than I was expecting (I've had a look for the pictures, but can't seem to find them unfortunately).
The farm closed during the 2006 season due to declining popularity not making it viable. The park were changing target audience and I guess the farm didn't suit people then. The direction they're heading now, thrillseekers, just has no place for a farm, so I can't see it being brought back. I doubt there's any plans to use the area for any investment now; it is very close to Thorpe so there's noise issues to consider and such. I don't think any more infilling is planned either, so it'll probably just stay how it is. The CCR track was all removed slowly but surely, so it's not as easy to bring back connections to the area either.
As RideAddict has said, if you go down Monk's Walk by the side of the park, there's opportunities to see it still. Though all you'll probably see are some old buildings, overgrown grass and a bit more water than before.

I guess this is where our opinions simply differ. I do feel they combine to give a strong overall impression; it is striking and a complete spectacle for the eye. The moment you walk onto the island, you're meant to think disaster - and that's exact what happens. As for the post hoc explanation, I do agree, but what I was saying about the church was more a possible explanation for those who want it. As amazing as it would be, every detail cannot be explained; people aren't going to have the experience ruined when they think 'Why a church?'.
Whilst you're correct about the physical limitations (bar, of course, going underground), there's the unfortunate other limitation that comes into affect here - cost. I'd assume that creating hills and such is going to add to the cost, and it would seem that, in this case, they've gone for themed features than an intricate landscape. It's certainly something Thorpe needs to explore again; Colossus does achieve this to a degree, and that has a fairly surreal feel to it I find. The flat terrain is unfortunate, but I think the only thing which really suffers from it is the queue line.
As for the area being poorly integrated, I disagree. Whilst there is not a chance to intereact with the large themed items, I still feel a part of it all. When the fire effect goes off, it doesn't really matter where you are on the island, you feel a part of it. The inverted drop is a key highlight of the ride - by having it feel distant, it means that you feel the need to look at it in a way. If it's not distant, it is just sort of there, whereas the way it works is as something to look at, to keep you interested; it's the beginning of the end if you will and that needs to be poignant. The helicopter is unfortunate really; the origin plans did show a rickety jetty that would allow guests to go a lot closer to it, and not be behind a chain link fence. It would have been great for for turnaround as well. Unfortunately, it was taken out of the plans a few days before they were approved. Not quite sure why, but whatever the reason, it is a shame, as the chopper was designed and placed with that in mind. The plane wing on a pile of dirt doesn't bother me in the slightest - yes, I've noticed it and yes it's convenient, but it's just one of those things which I think is being a bit too pedantic to be honest.
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It seems as though you're a bit more of a nit pick than me. I'm not saying that in a bad way whatsoever; I do notice some of these inconsistencies as well, but they're just little issues in my mind which, whilst it would be great that they weren't there, won't bother me in the enjoyment of a ride. That's certainly a general case as well. Again, I guess it boils down to the difference in opinion of 'judging' rides.

I would like something both beneficial to the ride experience and a spectacle to look at from the ground. A billboard by its very nature is flat, and (according to the concept art) boring feature to look at, unless people find advertising fun. I would suggest a small semi-demolished building of some sort, which somehow relates to the church and gives a greater impression of what the area was before the Swarm landed. Even better if it extended into the path.
You are not at all wrong in thinking those things, but does any of that actually matter to the ride experience itself? The various vehicles lying about act as descriptive devices to superficially convey the 'destruction' theme, but they don't combine to give a strong overall impression. The connection between the intention and what was actually built is not apparent when at the park. And if a theme ever needs post hoc 'explanation' to make it effective, then you know there is inconsistency somewhere.
Basically, the Swarm fails to make me feel like I am in an area being attacked by aliens, even with great suspension of disbelief. Judging from recent developments, it seems many other people also failed to connect with the theme.
Now I don't necessarily think the theming is weak: in my opinion the problem is down to the way the island is landscaped. It's a sparse, flat plaza, with the ride placed right on top of it, resulting in obtrusive safety nets and tall chain link fences obscuring guest interaction. The area was not designed from the perspective of the guest. Every item of theming was plonked somewhere behind a tall fence, or poorly integrated into the area as a whole (the airplane wing is supported by a conveniently located pile of dirt, for example). The opportunity to actually involve the audience/guests in the theme is missed in several places; this is especially disappointing considering they built the island from scratch and therefore had no physical limitations to overcome.
For comparison, look at a ride like Oblivion. There are minimal fences, and the whole area has been designed to allow the guest to view the symbolic drop from every angle - with the elevated surrounding paths acting like a viewing gallery. You can also physically walk down into the pit and get within a metre of the ride cars as they fall into the hole - brilliant. The ride is not positioned to the side of the path, hidden behind a fence and out of reach - if it was then Oblivion would lose half its impact.
With the Swarm, features like the helicopter, inverted drop and the firetruck just don't fulfil their potential and seem strangely distant, stuck behind their fences. Likewise, the queueline is boring because of its poor landscaping. Remember when queues used to take you up a hill, through tunnels, down into deep pits and let you get great views of the ride as you walked through? The Swarm just contains you in the same flat area as you walk back and forth.
It seems Thorpe Park recognised these problems when they installed the upturned ambulance, which both fills empty space and allows guests to get up close to the theming. It may not sound so important, but it makes a whole lot of difference to the area and the guest experience. Well done.
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I have no problem with the ride itself, and this new near miss will only improve the ride experience. I hope I'm not coming across as just another moaning enthusiast nerd who complains about everything. Really, when I actually rode The Swarm it left a big impression on me and I had great fun. But I can't help but recognise the inconsistencies in the theme design, which detracts from my enjoyment somewhat.

I love the Swarm, but I know exactly what you mean about rider interaction. I think this applies to the Station as well, there's just no atmosphere in there. Really I would have liked that to have a closed roof.
That's actually a very good point... It is actually a shame that the queue is so bland and boring, and the helicopter is in such an odd place, right out of the way. You could easily miss it if you weren't looking out for it... Also considering that they had a blank canvas to work with, the queueing/bagdrop/frontrow system is terrible.
It's very easy to sit here and complain though. Yeah it has it's down sides, but to be fair to them The Swarm is still amazing. We could pick fault with any ride if we tried hard enough.
I can't see the problem with this new billboard tbh. Yeah ok, a small building or part of the church would have been better, but hey, I'd rather have a Ferrari than my clapped out old Golf, but it achieves much the same thing, and is fit for purpose. I reckon the billboard could be the best near-miss on the entire ride. It will light up at night too, which will make the island look even more spectacular in the dark. Hopefully some of the lights will flicker as well.

You can tell they have had to use a very wide angle lens to fit the room in the frame, since all their faces are stretched. The room will look even smaller in person.
I think this supersedes Storm Surge as the weirdest development at Thorpe Park in recent years.

BOSE BOSE everything is BOSE
But I meant what system the music is playing from, not the speakers. I wouldn't be surprised if it is still the same equipment from 23 years ago!

Saw is one of the least imaginative roller coasters I have ever been on in the UK. It has barely any substance to it and just relies on the Saw IP to be popular. At first, the novelty of Thorpe Park having a 'dark ride hybrid' coaster was exciting, but even back in 2009 it confused me as to how anybody could think Saw was the "best ride in the world".

You queue through an endless maze of tall metal fences. It's in a very secluded area of the park so you feel appropriately abandoned when walking around, and this feeling is aided by the tense ambience loop. Annoying American police voice overs and rusty traps to illustrate the theme. Ok. By this point, you would have noticed that the warehouse is just a big box decorated with rusty metal and broken wood. Architecturally it is incredibly boring, offering no interaction with the surrounding paths and it sticks out like they simply plonked it on the flat ground..
Then your entrance to this 'warehouse' consists of a rectangular hole cut in the side of the building, with a CCTV camera above it. The opportunity for suspense is completely missed. The interior corridor seems promising with the gun effect, which often provokes reactions from guests, but the atmosphere is ruined once you get to the stairs and the Fastrack entrance floods the room with light. Meanwhile noisy TV screens play an inevitable queueline video which adds nothing to the overall experience. There is no sense of approaching danger as you climb the bare stairs, and a plastic dummy in fake barbed wire does nothing to rectify the lack of atmosphere.
Things get better once we enter the station, since it actually gets quite dark in there and there are many details to look at, such as the trap drawings and flickering windows. You board your car and for a moment there is a genuine sense of impending terror, as you see the track curve off into darkness and the set of cogs/wheels suggesting some kind of nasty machine. The car sets off, but immediately you are disappointed. The Billy doll is a laughable animatronic whose primitive mouth movement is more amusing than frightening. It's a gamble whether you will even be able to see Billy work, since only 1 of the 2 cars stop and he's positioned so badly that the huge restraints block most of your view. Who care's what he is saying anyway, he's obviously just there to pass the time while the car in front reaches the next block.

So we continue on our terrifying ride on the "scariest roller coaster in the world". Swinging blades - a credible effect. Suddenly there is a surprise drop - wow some creativity! It packs a punch, but the weird air guns that follow fail to maintain that excitement. There is then an unforeseen (but half expected) barrel roll, over a dead body lying in the middle of nowhere. So, this is supposed to be the bathroom scene from the film, not that you would notice it because the set decor is rendered invisible by the restraints. The body proceeds to spray water in your face - a pointless effect, but fun anyway... And before you know it, the dark ride section is over. There was no real reason to be scared after all - it was just a secret drop and a hidden inversion. I can think of far scarier rides already.
Now the roller coaster really begins, could this make up for the underwhelming start? Well, no, it's a pretty cheap Gerstlaurer euro fighter, designed to be compact and unintimidating by its very nature. Nevertheless, the towering vertical lift is a threatening image, purposefully placed at the front of the building to grab attention, one of the ride's only examples of interaction with its surroundings. But to actually ride the lift, it's not that memorable. The spinning blades barely even register when you are actually on the ride, which is a shame because they look exciting from the path. The rest of the ride is just a concrete car park area over which you perform a few uncomfortably tight inversions, in a coldly calculated manner. Hill, turn, break run, drop, loop... It's just a bunch of elements put in sequence and isn't interesting. This is all made worse by the ever-tightening restraints, which often seriously affect my enjoyment of the ride.

The end. That is the entire ride. It was fun, but not in a memorable way. I have nothing against Saw as such, but when people somehow conclude that it was "superbly done" I just don't get it. What did I miss? The theming is not amazing - it's just the bare minimum: illustrative props scattered around and decoration. The ride bares little resemblance to the Saw franchise (maybe that is a good thing), and you could imagine how much better an American attempt the Saw theme would be. There are missed opportunities everywhere, and they fail to exploit the potential of the abandoned building to create any kind of tense environment. Sure, I like the effects they do have, but it's all done in such a bland, humourless way that it's difficult to enjoy. Rides are supposed to be enjoyable right? Even frightening ones.
Saw is just average.

Saw is one of the least imaginative roller coasters I have ever been on in the UK. It has barely any substance to it and just relies on the Saw IP to be popular. At first, the novelty of Thorpe Park having a 'dark ride hybrid' coaster was exciting, but even back in 2009 it confused me as to how anybody could think Saw was the "best ride in the world".

You queue through an endless maze of tall metal fences. It's in a very secluded area of the park so you feel appropriately abandoned when walking around, and this feeling is aided by the tense ambience loop. Annoying American police voice overs and rusty traps to illustrate the theme. Ok. By this point, you would have noticed that the warehouse is just a big box decorated with rusty metal and broken wood. Architecturally it is incredibly boring, offering no interaction with the surrounding paths and it sticks out like they simply plonked it on the flat ground..
Then your entrance to this 'warehouse' consists of a rectangular hole cut in the side of the building, with a CCTV camera above it. The opportunity for suspense is completely missed. The interior corridor seems promising with the gun effect, which often provokes reactions from guests, but the atmosphere is ruined once you get to the stairs and the Fastrack entrance floods the room with light. Meanwhile noisy TV screens play an inevitable queueline video which adds nothing to the overall experience. There is no sense of approaching danger as you climb the bare stairs, and a plastic dummy in fake barbed wire does nothing to rectify the lack of atmosphere.
Things get better once we enter the station, since it actually gets quite dark in there and there are many details to look at, such as the trap drawings and flickering windows. You board your car and for a moment there is a genuine sense of impending terror, as you see the track curve off into darkness and the set of cogs/wheels suggesting some kind of nasty machine. The car sets off, but immediately you are disappointed. The Billy doll is a laughable animatronic whose primitive mouth movement is more amusing than frightening. It's a gamble whether you will even be able to see Billy work, since only 1 of the 2 cars stop and he's positioned so badly that the huge restraints block most of your view. Who care's what he is saying anyway, he's obviously just there to pass the time while the car in front reaches the next block.

So we continue on our terrifying ride on the "scariest roller coaster in the world". Swinging blades - a credible effect. Suddenly there is a surprise drop - wow some creativity! It packs a punch, but the weird air guns that follow fail to maintain that excitement. There is then an unforeseen (but half expected) barrel roll, over a dead body lying in the middle of nowhere. So, this is supposed to be the bathroom scene from the film, not that you would notice it because the set decor is rendered invisible by the restraints. The body proceeds to spray water in your face - a pointless effect, but fun anyway... And before you know it, the dark ride section is over. There was no real reason to be scared after all - it was just a secret drop and a hidden inversion. I can think of far scarier rides already.
Now the roller coaster really begins, could this make up for the underwhelming start? Well, no, it's a pretty cheap Gerstlaurer euro fighter, designed to be compact and unintimidating by its very nature. Nevertheless, the towering vertical lift is a threatening image, purposefully placed at the front of the building to grab attention, one of the ride's only examples of interaction with its surroundings. But to actually ride the lift, it's not that memorable. The spinning blades barely even register when you are actually on the ride, which is a shame because they look exciting from the path. The rest of the ride is just a concrete car park area over which you perform a few uncomfortably tight inversions, in a coldly calculated manner. Hill, turn, break run, drop, loop... It's just a bunch of elements put in sequence and isn't interesting. This is all made worse by the ever-tightening restraints, which often seriously affect my enjoyment of the ride.

The end. That is the entire ride. It was fun, but not in a memorable way. I have nothing against Saw as such, but when people somehow conclude that it was "superbly done" I just don't get it. What did I miss? The theming is not amazing - it's just the bare minimum: illustrative props scattered around and decoration. The ride bares little resemblance to the Saw franchise (maybe that is a good thing), and you could imagine how much better an American attempt the Saw theme would be. There are missed opportunities everywhere, and they fail to exploit the potential of the abandoned building to create any kind of tense environment. Sure, I like the effects they do have, but it's all done in such a bland, humourless way that it's difficult to enjoy. Rides are supposed to be enjoyable right? Even frightening ones.
Saw is just average.

Saw is one of the least imaginative roller coasters I have ever been on in the UK. It has barely any substance to it and just relies on the Saw IP to be popular. At first, the novelty of Thorpe Park having a 'dark ride hybrid' coaster was exciting, but even back in 2009 it confused me as to how anybody could think Saw was the "best ride in the world".

You queue through an endless maze of tall metal fences. It's in a very secluded area of the park so you feel appropriately abandoned when walking around, and this feeling is aided by the tense ambience loop. Annoying American police voice overs and rusty traps to illustrate the theme. Ok. By this point, you would have noticed that the warehouse is just a big box decorated with rusty metal and broken wood. Architecturally it is incredibly boring, offering no interaction with the surrounding paths and it sticks out like they simply plonked it on the flat ground..
Then your entrance to this 'warehouse' consists of a rectangular hole cut in the side of the building, with a CCTV camera above it. The opportunity for suspense is completely missed. The interior corridor seems promising with the gun effect, which often provokes reactions from guests, but the atmosphere is ruined once you get to the stairs and the Fastrack entrance floods the room with light. Meanwhile noisy TV screens play an inevitable queueline video which adds nothing to the overall experience. There is no sense of approaching danger as you climb the bare stairs, and a plastic dummy in fake barbed wire does nothing to rectify the lack of atmosphere.
Things get better once we enter the station, since it actually gets quite dark in there and there are many details to look at, such as the trap drawings and flickering windows. You board your car and for a moment there is a genuine sense of impending terror, as you see the track curve off into darkness and the set of cogs/wheels suggesting some kind of nasty machine. The car sets off, but immediately you are disappointed. The Billy doll is a laughable animatronic whose primitive mouth movement is more amusing than frightening. It's a gamble whether you will even be able to see Billy work, since only 1 of the 2 cars stop and he's positioned so badly that the huge restraints block most of your view. Who care's what he is saying anyway, he's obviously just there to pass the time while the car in front reaches the next block.

So we continue on our terrifying ride on the "scariest roller coaster in the world". Swinging blades - a credible effect. Suddenly there is a surprise drop - wow some creativity! It packs a punch, but the weird air guns that follow fail to maintain that excitement. There is then an unforeseen (but half expected) barrel roll, over a dead body lying in the middle of nowhere. So, this is supposed to be the bathroom scene from the film, not that you would notice it because the set decor is rendered invisible by the restraints. The body proceeds to spray water in your face - a pointless effect, but fun anyway... And before you know it, the dark ride section is over. There was no real reason to be scared after all - it was just a secret drop and a hidden inversion. I can think of far scarier rides already.
Now the roller coaster really begins, could this make up for the underwhelming start? Well, no, it's a pretty cheap Gerstlaurer euro fighter, designed to be compact and unintimidating by its very nature. Nevertheless, the towering vertical lift is a threatening image, purposefully placed at the front of the building to grab attention, one of the ride's only examples of interaction with its surroundings. But to actually ride the lift, it's not that memorable. The spinning blades barely even register when you are actually on the ride, which is a shame because they look exciting from the path. The rest of the ride is just a concrete car park area over which you perform a few uncomfortably tight inversions, in a coldly calculated manner. Hill, turn, break run, drop, loop... It's just a bunch of elements put in sequence and isn't interesting. This is all made worse by the ever-tightening restraints, which often seriously affect my enjoyment of the ride.

The end. That is the entire ride. It was fun, but not in a memorable way. I have nothing against Saw as such, but when people somehow conclude that it was "superbly done" I just don't get it. What did I miss? The theming is not amazing - it's just the bare minimum: illustrative props scattered around and decoration. The ride bares little resemblance to the Saw franchise (maybe that is a good thing), and you could imagine how much better an American attempt the Saw theme would be. There are missed opportunities everywhere, and they fail to exploit the potential of the abandoned building to create any kind of tense environment. Sure, I like the effects they do have, but it's all done in such a bland, humourless way that it's difficult to enjoy. Rides are supposed to be enjoyable right? Even frightening ones.
Saw is just average.

The arches have never been used for the public. The original queue line that the ride opened with, was a small cattle pen gravel section, that was directly to the right of-and led guests into the large gate and down the stairs, and through the tunnel that is now used for fastrack. The tunnel used to have mist through it. The mist effect was finally stopped due to H&S having issues with waterborne diseases.
As the cattle pen was fairly small, it was common for the queue line to back up down the hill and end up at the cave. There was no route under the ride as their is today.
I do have some pictures of a couple of years later, when this new queue line was made, I'll try dig them out.

The queue used to go beside the actual break run and station though - looking down from the exit ramp, you used to be able to see the old queue fences.
Brickwork - the queue used to have bricks surrounding the paths, and you could see the 2nd version of the queue going differently to the current queue path. This was removed when they tore up the concrete and brickwork.
Basically, there's been 3 versions of vampires queue!

The queue used to go through the gates, down the steps.. it somehow appeared underneath the actual break run running alongside the building, then somehow appeared at the merge point.
I've tried for years to work out how the queue originally went. Never managed to make sense of it, noone seemingly remembers either. They changed it quite quickly to use a path similar to currently (though I believe that was even changed during the fastrack addition - you used to be able to see the queue route before they got rid of the brickwork).
In summary: don't think anyone knows.

Do you work for Imperial Leather or something?

They were definitely on about reusing the vampire entrance for this year.
I hope, after years and years of them wanting to do it, that it actually gets done. Just simple signage or a push gate will ensure guests using the main entrance turn right.

The trees in front of the toilets next to the second drop have since been removed completely, judging by recent photographs. (not those actually on the path)

In other news, I read elsewhere that work has been carried out near The Vampire and that there are 'further changes to come', which for me suggests that the old gateway entrance may be put back in use this year. If true, this would be the best thing Chessington have done for the last X years.
It's quite believable, since they would simply need to install a fence reconnecting the gateway with the main queueline, then create a division behind the arch so that fastrack goes left and others go right.
It would greatly improve the guest experience. A purple bar does not create any kind of impression on guests.

Do you work for Imperial Leather or something?

Do you work for Imperial Leather or something?

Do you work for Imperial Leather or something?

Do you work for Imperial Leather or something?

Long before Storm Surge, Octopus Gardens and the adjacent Thorpe Mega Store (I think it was a themed restaurant at some point) had quite a lot of figures dotted around like this. By the time I knew the park, this octopus had long gone, but I found this great video of the sculptor making it.
He also made that odd statue that is now situated in Loggers Leap. You can see it was originally intended for somewhere else that I don't recognise... is it Trapper's Trail where Slammer now is?

There are more videos on his website, including many iconic Chessington sculptures, like the dragon tunnel and the carved Buddha faces from Dragon River.

H&S can not stop anything. Poor design, build or maintenance could mean it is not safe to operate, but that is not because of H&S, it is because of park operations.
Identifying a hazard and making it safe is one thing, removing everything they can not be bothered to maintain to an acceptable standard is another. In this case if the rocks were unsafe there were two clear options - repair/replace the rocks or remove the rocks. They made the easy and cheap (but wrong) choice, and now it looks crap.
Everything is potentially hazardous, nothing is without risk. With your thinking we wouldn't build a theme park in the first place, just in case.