Glitch Posted February 25, 2016 Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 Why the owner. I'm sure that the owner has no direct contact with the staff or their training. There goes the smiler in the 2016 season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian-S Posted February 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 Because the owner* is ultimately responsible for the training and work ethic of it's employee, this is how it was 20-30 years ago before companies started shirting their responsibilities and saying 'hey we trained him, not our fault he made a mistake' and employing expensive lawyers to hang their staff out to dry. I think as this story get's clarified we'll find that both Merlin and the ride operator will be prosecuted, although the ride operator may not be, likely outcome is a huge fine, millions upon millions for Merlin, not much else they can do as nobody died. *I assume we all know Merlin don't own Alton Towers, they operate it under lease from the man who does own it, but I'll humour Sky and the BBC until someone wakes up there and reports it properly, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted February 25, 2016 Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 ^Nail on head... As it is private property, the owner/leaser has the final buck in regards to the safety and security of visitors... Given that the incident came down to 'human error' then as the operator they have to take full responsibility for the incident... HSE tend to deal with companies rather than individuals... Means that the park will be charged in court, which will probably mean more cuts to the operations throughout after a fine payable to HSE... I doubt that Merlin will please Not Guilty in this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian-S Posted February 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 The hearing will be on 22nd April, Merlin's statement indicates they will plead guilty, it's a charge of failing to reasonably ensure the safety of patrons while on site, due I'd imagine by overriding the safety procedure built into the ride and not visually checking the track before restarting the thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted February 25, 2016 Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 ^Nail on head... As it is private property, the owner/leaser has the final buck in regards to the safety and security of visitors... Given that the incident came down to 'human error' then as the operator they have to take full responsibility for the incident... HSE tend to deal with companies rather than individuals... Means that the park will be charged in court, which will probably mean more cuts to the operations throughout after a fine payable to HSE... I doubt that Merlin will please Not Guilty in this... I doubt it will mean more cuts - Merlin no doubt will have expected this and will have been in mind it's budgets. Graeme 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Posted February 25, 2016 Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 I doubt it will mean more cuts - Merlin no doubt will have expected this and will have been in mind it's budgets. Exactly! I'm sure they have one heck of a legal team that will have advised what the likely fine will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zach Posted February 25, 2016 Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 The fines imposed by HSE are normally not very big, you can look at previous fines on their website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted February 25, 2016 Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 The fines imposed by HSE are normally not very big, you can look at previous fines on their website. Define "not very big"... Baring in mine HSE can charge people for really safety incidents (not even loss of limb, but perhaps back injuries due to poor work practices), it could be anything... You'd think an incident which involved 5 people being seriously injured, 2 with actual life-changing injuries, wouldn't exactly result in a small slap on the wrist style fine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JL1 Posted February 25, 2016 Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 Gerst can't be responsible for the procedures regarding a blocking system being over-ridden by ride-ops. If Merlin did not have the correct training/procedures in place, then - that's where the buck stops? EDIT to say - are we to assume from this headline that the operator who performed the over-ride is negated of all responsibility? Just thought that I'd say that the ride operators themselves cannot over-ride the block system. Therefore if the blame was to be placed on an individual they wouldn't be wholly responsible. Mer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zach Posted February 25, 2016 Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 Define "not very big"... Baring in mine HSE can charge people for really safety incidents (not even loss of limb, but perhaps back injuries due to poor work practices), it could be anything... You'd think an incident which involved 5 people being seriously injured, 2 with actual life-changing injuries, wouldn't exactly result in a small slap on the wrist style fine... I mean, not big enough to have a significant impact on merlin's finances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mer Posted February 25, 2016 Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 Just thought that I'd say that the ride operators themselves cannot over-ride the block system. Therefore if the blame was to be placed on an individual they wouldn't be wholly responsible. I was literally just thinking this and was about to post! Only engineers can perform a manual override. Basically, when there is a technical difficulty with a ride: the operator has to call control to inform them, control sends an engineer(s) to the ride, and should they need to touch the controls at all, the ride is then in their control only. The operator and attendants cannot touch anything unless the engineer instructs them to. Once the engineer is happy/the ride is fixed, it is then signed back over to the rides team, and operations continue as normal. Rides staff are generally not trained on manual controls/overrides, unless it's part of an emergency procedure. On many rides, it is physically impossible without an engineer, as they would need to insert their key or enter a password. There can be exceptions for operators being allowed to use manual controls - for example, when I worked at Thorpe and Samurai had frequent issues zeroing (for those who don't know - the position it has to be in once the cycle has finished, before it can lower back down); operators would just need to phone control to inform them, and would then be allowed to put the ride in manual so that they could manually position and lower it to the platform (obviously much quicker and easier than calling an engineer or manager every time). But on a modern coaster like Smiler, I seriously doubt the operator could just manually override things without an engineer. My guess is that the engineer was there, and either did it themselves, or incorrectly instructed the operator. Also, according to the articles: "The theme park said staff misunderstood a shutdown message and wrongly restarted the ride." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TraX Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 Not *always* the case at Alton. For example a TL blew all the service breaks on Oblivion by putting it into engineering/manual mode, without an engineer being there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 According to Towers twitter, Smiler is reopening 19th March and it's not being renamed. Ian-S, Kerfuffle and Celia Mae 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan.N Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 According to Towers twitter, Smiler is reopening 19th March and it's not being renamed. The Smiler was never going to be rethemed. That was confirmed pretty quickly in the aftermath of the incident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 The Smiler was never going to be rethemed. That was confirmed pretty quickly in the aftermath of the incident. I said renamed, also it wasn't officially confirmed was it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan.N Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 I said renamed, also it wasn't officially confirmed was it? By giving a ride a new name you are altering the original theme, so in this instance retheme is the correct phrase IMO. I'm sure it was officially confirmed by Merlin but not much exposure was given to it. I believe it was mentioned on a conference call where the details of the call were made public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 Alton Tweeted a while ago that The Smiler won't be renamed in response to someone asking. Great news that it'll be ready for opening day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshC. Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 It's a good thing to get it out of the way at start of Season. Get any negative press out the way then try and move on from it with Galactica and Roller coaster Restaurant afterwards. Of course, it'll still hasn't around the park for a long time, but the sooner it opens the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt 236 Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 This is good news for the ride. Hopefully the ride will have a smooth 2016 and future [as it needs it]. In others news, despite losing 6 rides [4 SBNO], ticket prices have gone up again with adult tickets now costing £51.60 [a £1.20 rise]. However online/advance prices have been dropped slightly with tickets 2-4 days ahead 15% cheaper and 5 day plus tickets being 30% cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 How on earth can they justify increasing the gate price?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 How on earth can they justify increasing the gate price?! To encourage people to book online, it's crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holtjammy16 Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 I've been booking a 2 day entry and overnight stay at alton every march for the past 3 years and it's starting to feel like the price is going up each time yet the ride line up is decreasing They still do the 2nd day ticket free though right? MattyMoo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 To encourage people to book online, it's crap. I understand the logic but I think they would be better off lowering the price significantly (both on the gate and online) to encourage people back - especially as they're essentially offering a hugely reduced version of the park this year. 6 rides closed and a price increase just doesn't add up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 That took long: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/alton-towers-crash-survivor-vicky-7468051 MattyMoo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyMoo Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 I'm struggling how to respond to that article - does she really need an extra few hundred quid from The Mirror? I know it's incredibly awful what's happened, obviously it is, and of course she is going to never want to ride it again, hates Alton Towers, all theme parks etc. etc. - but some of those comments in that article are beyond stupid. Liam T and holtjammy16 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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