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Marc

Derren Brown's Ghost Train: Rise of the Demon

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1 hour ago, SteveJ said:

Funny how just 1 year later those "early days" were gone and the graphics infinitely improved. Swap out "early days" for "cheapest option" and you'd be more correct

To be fair the same people who did the VR when it opened did the re-worked Vr on the 2nd train - they were also responsible for the VR in the first segment.

 

Always thought it was the 2nd trains VR which let it down massively in its first year - the hold in green smoke just went on too long every time but apart from that it was OK - though the re-worked 2nd train scene is much better.

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I think the ride during it’s second season (and first full year operating) was definitely at it’s best. The second VR was an Improvement, the new finale added that extra element (and was my favourite part of the ride), plus we still had that “live action” element between the two sections. I’m not saying it was perfect then (still a way off) but it was something.

 

Whatever happens to DBGT if/when the Park reopens is anyone’s guess, however with hygiene measures and the nature of the attraction, we could potentially see the attraction opened with “toned down” affects I.e no VR or the attraction temporarily/permanently closed. If the later happens, only time will tell if it reopens with an amended setup, receives a re-theme or is mothballed until eventual redevelopment.

 

It is no secret that DBGT has been a white elephant to the park. They spent a lot of money and resources on it, however it never truly paid off and has had little to no impact on gate figures as a result. It’s absence from the anniversary hoodie says it all.

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1 hour ago, Matt Creek said:

It is no secret that DBGT has been a white elephant to the park. They spent a lot of money and resources on it, however it never truly paid off and has had little to no impact on gate figures as a result. It’s absence from the anniversary hoodie says it all.

While the correct answer to what should have been built instead of BDGTROTD is 'anything', thinking about what we could have had for that much money is heartbreaking really. I've no doubt a small scale ride based on the Spiderman ride system could have been in reach, or any number of other options. That money can't be unspent, the opportunity has gone.

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20 hours ago, pluk said:

While the correct answer to what should have been built instead of BDGTROTD is 'anything', thinking about what we could have had for that much money is heartbreaking really. I've no doubt a small scale ride based on the Spiderman ride system could have been in reach, or any number of other options. That money can't be unspent, the opportunity has gone.

100% agree with this, such a shame as I expected great things from it. Now, it's just a case of waiting for it to be old enough to demolish (and pretend it never happened)

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On 4/19/2020 at 8:57 PM, JoshC. said:

Another potential issue: could there be a negative public reaction to the theme of the ride? If you piece and twist it together, it's all about a respiratory thing causing illness. In this day and age, I could see some people trying to twist it...


I can see this being the biggest issue to be honest. Yes, attitudes towards germs and cleanliness will change but I think more significant will be the reduced desire to experience such an attraction. 
 

I was thinking more generally about this only yesterday: how the market for horror and other spooky stuff will likely decrease in light of Covid-19. After half a year of pandemic-induced lockdown, the public’s desire to watch horror films/do live horror experiences/ride respiratory disease themed ghost trains will surely have waned as people reevaluate their lives.
 

I wonder if the themes dreamt up by parks in the years following this pandemic will focus more on adventure and liberation than horror. After all, isn’t escapism what theme parks are all about?

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On 4/21/2020 at 3:10 PM, Marc said:

To be fair the same people who did the VR when it opened did the re-worked Vr on the 2nd train - they were also responsible for the VR in the first segment.

Yeah, just proves the point more that there wasn't any other reason for being so bad, it's because Merlin only paid enough for the most rushed / cheapest possible option

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Next year was meant to be it’s last season before the contract was up for renewal (which it obviously won’t be). 

 

Can very likely sit it just sitting SBNO if the park re-opens this year, and all of next season too. 
 

Would be no great loss either, turd throughput and has little draw for new visitors. 

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2 hours ago, JoshuaA said:

It is a grave shame the park didn't just build a freespin or a Raptor with that money. 

Also lets not forget Wildfire cost less than this. 

 

I agree... We could have had a fantastic 6th rollercoaster instead with even less money spent, and the rest of that spent on fixing up and re-doing areas of the park. Unbelievable that they thought this was a better investment. Mind boggling. 

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13 hours ago, JoshuaA said:

It is a grave shame the park didn't just build a freespin or a Raptor with that money. 

Also lets not forget Wildfire cost less than this. 

 

I think the investment needs to be taken with a bit of context.

 

Thorpe do have a decent range of coasters for a park of their size. Not perfect, and in this day, not as varied as others, but still decent. Around 2014 (when planning for Ghost Train was in full swing), plenty of people were crying out for something different. And Thorpe needed a dark ride.

 

It was still a huge risk to opt for a dark ride over a coaster, and one that in hindsight really hasn't paid off. But at the same time, when this was announced and being constructed, the overwhelming majority thought it was a good idea.

 

The issue isn't that Thorpe didn't build a coaster, the issue is that they built the wrong dark ride. 

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14 hours ago, JoshuaA said:

It is a grave shame the park didn't just build a freespin or a Raptor with that money. 

Also lets not forget Wildfire cost less than this. 

 

 

I remember the period of around 2013-2015 where all Thorpe fans banged on about was Thorpe getting a dark ride. Josh C nailed it, they just got the wrong dark ride. I look at rides like Gruffalo, Wallace and Gromit, Symoblica and wonder why they hell we didn't get something on that level. 

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I believe that had DBGT not been built a really small dive coaster (horror themed of course - guessing the "ground/ monster swallows you up" or something like that) would have been built (even smaller than Oblivion because of course they can't dig down but also can't be above a certain height to allow council approval). Which people would also have been complaining about because of its extremely short length.

Also I believe it was mentioned somewhere that Thorpe are moving away from being completely horror-filled anyway to have more variety mainly due to the massive amount of complaints they get.

DBGT is a good concept (story and idea wise) just executed really poorly. Also, like almost everything else at Thorpe Park, there's no synergy between it's location and surroundings. Why's there a nautical themed ship close to it's entrance? It really messes up the immersion whilst walking to it.

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1 hour ago, JoshC. said:

Around 2014 (when planning for Ghost Train was in full swing), plenty of people were crying out for something different. And Thorpe needed a dark ride.

 

It was still a huge risk to opt for a dark ride over a coaster, and one that in hindsight really hasn't paid off. But at the same time, when this was announced and being constructed, the overwhelming majority thought it was a good idea.

 

The issue isn't that Thorpe didn't build a coaster, the issue is that they built the wrong dark ride. 

Yeah sure the park needed something that was different from the big thrill coasters. That is why X was so popular, it was a coaster that was fun, everyone could ride it, and it focused on being fun, not 'OMG THIS IS SCARY'. That is another mistake the park made, not making the Ghost Train accessible for families. I think what people wanted was more attractions that everyone could enjoy as a family, and Thorpe just built another attraction that really isn't much different from the coasters when it comes to theme and the type of people it attracts.

 

1 hour ago, Mark9 said:

 

I remember the period of around 2013-2015 where all Thorpe fans banged on about was Thorpe getting a dark ride. Josh C nailed it, they just got the wrong dark ride. I look at rides like Gruffalo, Wallace and Gromit, Symoblica and wonder why they hell we didn't get something on that level. 

Yeah I wasn't saying it being a dark ride was the issue. Was just listing a bunch of stuff they could of got for the price that they paid.

Its sad cos Wallace and Gromit and Hex are such fun rides and a decent dark ride like that would be good at Thorpe. 

 

1 hour ago, Ivsetti said:

Also, like almost everything else at Thorpe Park, there's no synergy between it's location and surroundings. Why's there a nautical themed ship close to it's entrance? It really messes up the immersion whilst walking to it.

Honestly I kinda view Thorpe as more of a amusement park. Its loosely themed, but I honestly think the park really isn't about the theming or immersion and more about the rides.

Like sure some rides are well themed there, but the areas themselves aren't really immersive or anything worth caring about. Angry Birds Land is a brilliant example of how seriously you should take Thorpe as a theme park lol. If they made it more of an amusement park in the future I honestly wouldn't mind.

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1 hour ago, JoshuaA said:

Honestly I kinda view Thorpe as more of a amusement park. Its loosely themed, but I honestly think the park really isn't about the theming or immersion and more about the rides.

Like sure some rides are well themed there, but the areas themselves aren't really immersive or anything worth caring about. Angry Birds Land is a brilliant example of how seriously you should take Thorpe as a theme park lol. If they made it more of an amusement park in the future I honestly wouldn't mind.

Yeah good point, it's much more an amusement park these days, it never actually had a real themed area since Ranger County, Fantasy Reef and Amity Cove to be honest.

The rides are themed, but the park really isn't. It's a Walibi style 'theme park', I think Thorpe Park should just focus on being really good at that, with a fresh stylish park. Otherwise it's really bad at being a full-on 'immersive' theme park.

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I don't buy the whole 'a park has to have themed areas to be a theme park'. If you work with that logic, then you have to call Efteling an "amusement park" instead of a "theme park", which does a great disservice to Efteling. These two terms aren't enough to encapsulate all types of parks in the world.

 

More importantly though, does it matter? Whether it's a theme park or an amusement park, their core purpose is to have rides which people will enjoy. Both of those types of parks will know that some rides need to have theming to enhance their enjoyment, whilst some rides don't need theming to enhance their enjoyment. So in my opinion, it doesn't matter whether a park is one or the other, they'll do what's right.

 

The likes of Swarm and Walking Dead are improved because of their theming. Stealth and Colossus probably wouldn't benefit much more if they had higher levels of theming. Sure, if Thorpe wanted to fully focus on being Disney/Phantasialand level of immersion they'd focus on rides which are improved when themed, but for a park like Thorpe, I really don't think it matters what they call themselves. 

 

 

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Thorpe is too small to pull off full on themed areas unless they started doing a Phantasialand. 

 

Which isn't gonna happen.

 

I'd wager even Thor's Hammer at Tusenfryd would've been a better fit for Thorpe. We definitely all wanted something that wasn't a coaster back before it opened. Just again the weird choices made led towards a lost and confused attraction.

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20 hours ago, HermanTheGerman said:

Next year was meant to be it’s last season before the contract was up for renewal (which it obviously won’t be). 

 

Can very likely sit it just sitting SBNO if the park re-opens this year, and all of next season too. 
 

Would be no great loss either, turd throughput and has little draw for new visitors. 

It definitely wont be SBNO, if anything they will remove all references to Derren and it will just be The Ghost Train. It's still too young to be SBNO, and it's not broken (like Slammer), it's just ****.

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48 minutes ago, StevenVig said:

It definitely wont be SBNO, if anything they will remove all references to Derren and it will just be The Ghost Train. It's still too young to be SBNO, and it's not broken (like Slammer), it's just ****.

Frankly it's impossible to see it - or any VR attraction - operating for the foreseeable future, so yes, it will be SBNO.

 

After the Derren contract is up, who knows, but there's no such thing as being to young/new to be SBNO.

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4 hours ago, JoshC. said:

I don't buy the whole 'a park has to have themed areas to be a theme park'. If you work with that logic, then you have to call Efteling an "amusement park" instead of a "theme park", which does a great disservice to Efteling. These two terms aren't enough to encapsulate all types of parks in the world.

 

More importantly though, does it matter? Whether it's a theme park or an amusement park, their core purpose is to have rides which people will enjoy. Both of those types of parks will know that some rides need to have theming to enhance their enjoyment, whilst some rides don't need theming to enhance their enjoyment. So in my opinion, it doesn't matter whether a park is one or the other, they'll do what's right.

I don't think I've seen anyone say a park "needs" themed areas to be a theme park. (Also every inch of Efteling is themed so I dont know what you mean there)

Like you say it's all about enjoyment. What I mean is, Thorpe Park makes for a terrible immersive style Phantasialand theme park, whenever it tries and fails to be that, but as a more simple stylish, throwaway kinda theme park it could be great fun!  (that's kind of how it was in the past as a family park anyway)

Currently it's a very bad, not very enjoyable mish mash. The park is very grubby and uncool but tries to look slick and stylish. They try to force 'themed areas' and themed experiences when there aren't any, rather than focus on making the park look appealing or have any identity. A few surf boards and painted wood doesn't make a great park

Some of the ride themes are ok on their own, but most are depressing, cheap and all shoved together in a weird mess

I really don't know why they thought Derren Brown was a good idea for Thorpe, it was the last thing all that money needed spending on in my opinion.
 

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16 minutes ago, SteveJ said:

I don't think I've seen anyone say a park "needs" themed areas to be a theme park.

I've seen a few people mention it, but my comment specifically came because you said:

5 hours ago, SteveJ said:

Yeah good point, it's much more an amusement park these days, it never actually had a real themed area since Ranger County, Fantasy Reef and Amity Cove to be honest.

And I put 2 and 2 together and thought you were saying because it hasn't had a themed area introduced since 2000, it's an amusement park. Got 5 instead though!

16 minutes ago, SteveJ said:

(Also every inch of Efteling is themed so I dont know what you mean there)

True - and exactly my point! Efteling is themed extraordinarily, but (outside of the Fairytale Forest) there's no cohesively themed areas. And that circles back to the point I thought you were making that theme park = themed areas, and Efteling is the perfect counterexample to that idea.

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22 minutes ago, JoshC. said:

And I put 2 and 2 together and thought you were saying because it hasn't had a themed area introduced since 2000, it's an amusement park. Got 5 instead though!

Yeah it's not had an actual themed area since those, I was saying that in agreement to the previous post that it's just loosely themed, so it doesn't particularly matter that the themes don't 'make sense' next to each other. As long as they look good and it makes for a nice park then that's just the park's vibe.

I don't think the public go into Thorpe Park for any reason than to enjoy the park and the rides, it should just focus on being good at that. It's more like Blackpool Pleasure Beach really.

Wheras the moment guests step into Efteling they're in a beautiful theme park with so many surprises and areas to explore, totally different appeal. The themed 'areas' might not have a big Merlin style archway saying "Welcome to ____ land" but that doesn't matter, each corner of the park is a little different and the attractions all sit next to next each other nicely.

Each park is different style when it comes to how they theme stuff, I wish Thorpe would stick to  what it's best at really and clean itself up. It could really be great fun

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6 hours ago, JoshC. said:

there's no such thing as being to young/new to be SBNO.

When you've spent £13,000,000 on an attraction, yes, it's too young to let stand there and rot when there's nothing mechanically wrong with it

 

They'll keep it running as long as possible, even if it is ****. They're not that stupid to have 3 SBNO rides together

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