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Yeah. Id hope not too. But that's thinking of a water coaster as we know it, this could be something entirely new and a whole lot better than previous water coaster attempts.Just imagine a massive woodie winding around the existing but referbed flume. That's SW stuff.

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;) Yes, but a woodie is 'too dangerous'. I doubt that will ever happen in the foreseeable future. Also, there might be an issue with noise surrounding such a thing...

This is why the UK actually NEEDS a new Wooden coaster, because basically until the GP realise that the only wooden coasters in the world aren't at Blackpool or Gwazi (generally the most likely ridden ones for average guests) and have these generally false views on them, we won't see stuff like Prowler and Mountain Flyer ever built here...Plus, Wooden coasters are just as noisy as steel coasters... Such an urban myth that they are loud...

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Anyway, the park won't spend massive amounts of money on something which could be deemed as unsafe by the public. Some of the things they say may be unnecessary but they are the consumers after all...

The reasons given for the original woodie plans not being built make me more angry than the fact it was not built. Surveys of the public will always find an average result, and the result of that will be an average attraction, never at the extremes of what is possible.The public, me included, are mostly idiots. Do you think when they built Nemesis they asked the public "Do you think it would be a good idea to build the most intense ride in the world? Your legs will be dangling and it will feel like your about to smash into the surroundings" when nothing like this existed anywhere? Of course they didn't, because most of the public would have said "Well, that doesn't sound terribly safe" and it would never have been built. Instead they put their trust in experts of the industry who built the best thing they could, which was a thing of real beauty.They went to the trouble of planning an epic wooden coaster, they knew it was the right thing to build but lost their bottle because of the results of a bunch of surveys. They should have trusted their instincts and built it, if they'd done it as well as we know they can people would now be travelling from around the world to get on it. They should get their bottle back and build it, or something like it, now.

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An 'urban myth' which I have experienced? Not so sure of that ;) Anyway, the park won't spend massive amounts of money on something which could be deemed as unsafe by the public. Some of the things they say may be unnecessary but they are the consumers after all...

Ever been to Oakwood? You can barely hear Megaphobia going along...Same thing for many other wooden coasters around the world, at Towers, I doubt any wooden coaster would be louder than Nemesis...And again, it's an incorrect viewpoint from guests that wooden coasters are 'unsafe'... They aren't... Unfortunately it seems unless one of the 'smaller' parks such as Flamingoland or Drayton take a so called 'risk' and build a beautiful GCI we will never see one here...A build it and they will come thing is always true about parks... A new wooden coaster would draw in crowds because it's a new ride... Look at how some American parks have invested in GCI and Intamin wooden coasters, they are not unsafe, but due to the relatively narrow UK experience of wooden coasters, being stuck with customer surveys and basing new additions on such things results in not building something simple yet full of potential quality... I'm sick and tired of attractions always being some World's First crap... Just build something with love and quality for once, and you won't get a Thirteen situation...Oh, and the original SW6 Wooden coaster was cancelled due to planning permission issues... Not as a bottle job (as would be the case these days)...

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I remember looking at those SW6 wooden coaster plans and feeling very underwhelmed. I think people were so for the project because of the fact that it was a wooden coaster rather than the quality of the attraction and layout.I think having the project cancelled may do the park a favour if they ever get round to making such a ride appealing to the public. Wooden coaster design has progressed so much since then, and any coaster designed for the park now will surely benefit from this.GCI could do some fantastic things if let loose on Alton's landscape.

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I remember looking at those SW6 wooden coaster plans and feeling very underwhelmed. I think people were so for the project because of the fact that it was a wooden coaster rather than the quality of the attraction and layout.I think having the project cancelled may do the park a favour if they ever get round to making such a ride appealing to the public. Wooden coaster design has progressed so much since then, and any coaster designed for the park now will surely benefit from this.GCI could do some fantastic things if let loose on Alton's landscape.

I remember being in awe of the idea of the double drop into the valley... But definitely yes, people wanted it because it was a wooden coaster more than anything, and can we be blamed?Someone from Towers needs to go on Mountain Flyer in China, and then straight after coming off ring GCI and say "We want one"...But, knowing Towers, they won't be allowed to cut down the trees required for it... Hell they had enough trouble with Thirteen...

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Oh, and the original SW6 Wooden coaster was cancelled due to planning permission issues... Not as a bottle job (as would be the case these days)...

As I understand it, yes, the plans were not accepted by the council, but the issues were supposedly quite easy to overcome with some adjustments but the amended plans were never resubmitted because of the survey nonsense.Either way, I so agree - just give a pile of money to GCI and let them get on with it. Everything I've riden by them has been extraordinary.

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As I understand it, yes, the plans were not accepted by the council, but the issues were supposedly quite easy to overcome with some adjustments but the amended plans were never resubmitted because of the survey nonsense.

The surveys are very much more a Merlin thing and have only really become a much more recent development into how they choose their attractions (I.e. I doubt Towers did a survey about Nemesis, Oblivion and Air, just went for it)... Since this was alllllll the way back in 2003, I'm gonna guess (as my history is unsure) that that was about the time DIC took control of Tussauds and caused a gigantic shake-up which probably meant that the coaster would never see the light of day...

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It just makes you think how in touch with their audience the Studios and development team were in their time, and Pearsons/ early Charterhouse period knew this and completely trusted the creative input from Wardley and the team.I can understand during this economic climate why businesses are ever more cautious about investing money unless they know that they're going to see a return, hence the surveys and extensive market research. Although it'd be nice one day to return to having a bit more faith in your creative and development teams.

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^Thing is, they don't NEED all these surveys and market research...Essentially, they just need to build A new ride, market it as A new ride (without the extra crap like Thirteen) and BAM, people will turn up to the park...Parks don't need to add world's firsts or make each ride seem like the best thing ever to get new guests... People will come because there's a new ride... Dunno WHY Merlin fail to see that...

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It's very easy for us to sit back and call the shots to how the business should be run. You know what, I'm sure Merlin themselves know exactly what you have suggested. Merlin have to 100% guarantee that their money will see returns and profits, for shareholders and for Blackstone.To prove to Blackstone that they can make a profit from their investment I would imagine that they need to carry out such research in order to get the capital released to them. Even though Blackstone do have theme park experience, I'm not so sure these big investment banks truly realise just how unique a business a theme park really is. They're special and needed to be treated differently.

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Except they might not not if they think that it could be dangerous. It doesn't matter about whether it's a correct viewpoint or not.Plus if it's not innovative or new, then it's hardly an SW coaster.

You don't have to build something innovative or new to build a good ride...And surely parks should be attempting to challenge viewpoints... As Sheepie said, Tussauds of old just focused on providing the best rides possible with the advice of people who know what they're talking about, if Nemesis, Oblivion or Air weren't around I doubt people would think they would be 'safe'...

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Yes, but if it's not innovative, it's not a Secret Weapon. Just a new ride. Plus, if 100% profit returns aren't practically garenteed, then Merlin just isn't prepared to spend the money.

See, this annoys me. Realistically a brand new rollercoaster is going to last another 20 years and will make back its return within the first few seasons. Look at rides like Oblivion, 13 years on and it's still the ride with the most merchandise in Alton's shops. Same with Air, same with Stealth.I know there's a fine balance between getting a good ride out there and having the budget to do it, but when it all said and done, these aren't little things that will last a month, they are million pound experiences which will be seeing the park through at least two decades. Sometimes parks attitudes astound me.

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Yes, but if it's not innovative, it's not a Secret Weapon. Just a new ride. Plus, if 100% profit returns aren't practically garenteed, then Merlin just isn't prepared to spend the money.

If Towers got an exact clone of Fluch von Novgorod, they would see a profit...Our park attitudes stink... Don't want stories, hence minimal theming, too busy focusing on gimmicks instead of quality now...There's a reason Nemesis and Oblivion are world class...

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I am a big fan of merlin, but I disagree about merlin making "extremely successful decisions".The only thing on that scale is their mega expansion of their midway brand, to have a constant and consistant income, and a sound base to expand.Theme park wise, they aint done anything risky or amazing to have extreme success from them.

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Ugh, if Merlin are so desperate for a "Worlds First" Tag line I would prefer they built/designed a quality ride and then shoe-horned another meaningless claim on the end of it, rather than the other way around, coming up with a tagline and building a ride to fit that.If they built a woodie with the most airtime, they could advertise it as being the most forceful, albeit in terms of negative G. What annoys me is that a GCI shouldn't really even count as a "Major" investment, they are what £4million-£7million? I would love for them to just take one risk, reap the benefits and realise that making bolder investments with more quality is the way to go.

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I got the impression that Benin was playing up to the idea of the park that they must build World's First Attractions. ;)

A mixture of both tbh...A short launch going into a whole little twisty section in the woods of Dark Forest, followed by then the original epic double drop into the valley... NOM!

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A mixture of both tbh...A short launch going into a whole little twisty section in the woods of Dark Forest, followed by then the original epic double drop into the valley... NOM!

And the restraints are designed for higher throughput AND we have the possibility of an awesome soundtrack onboard. Dear lord, if this actually happens at any point in the future..

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And the restraints are designed for higher throughput AND we have the possibility of an awesome soundtrack onboard. Dear lord, if this actually happens at any point in the future..

I really need to start claiming royalties... Or work for Merlin Studios... Post uni here I come ;)

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