I may not be the longest serving member of TPM, but I've been here long enough to know that that is not the way to get sympathy, Phill was trying to reason with you, but then you were adamant on arguing your point; which, lets be honest, was rather pointless. (ahem, Project Val? )And please don't double-post, just click the 'Edit 'button :DAnd I'm sure Phill has posted comments mocking other people's quotes, but never agressively, only to get things that have got out-of-hand, back in order.It's best not to argue with the Admin Team, they run the place, and if you upset them or they see you upsetting other members, they'll suspend you, just read the guidelines...Now, back on topic: can anyone estimate how deep the Dive Loop trench is? Is it deep enough for the car to go underground for a decent amount of time, or is it the kind of trench that is just there for a bit of scary themeing?