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I'm sure you've all heard of Kings Island. It's a part of the Six Flags chain now, but in June it was one of the premier Cedar Fair parks, sitting right under Cedar Point as one of its main gems. Its line up also reflects this with three B&M's, a GCI, an Arrow, classic woodies and several classics and frequent investment that Michigans Adventure could only dream of. Before my visit I heard about the fantastic operations, full train operations, how they operate the park flawlessly. Well spoilers. They don't. I recently embarked on a 9 park USA trip and out of all of them, Kings Island sits as the most disappointing. But why? There's several reasons but first let's start with the rides themselves. The five main attractions are Diamondback, Orion, Banshee, Mystic Timbers and the Beast. Like Canadas Wonderland & Carowinds, the park has a hyper/giga combo and in my opinion this is the weakest combo of the three. Diamondback is the hyper coaster and is the best coaster in the park. It has a lot of air time, it has the second best layout (Behemoth, Diamondback and Thunder Striker) and is generally well paced and landscaped. Orion is pretty good but is too short. It also doesn't share the same principles as Fury 325 and Leviathan. Those two rides despite being gigas, keep relatively low to the ground and have fast paced corners interspersed with good floater air time. Orion on the other hand feels like it's missing the last third of the ride. It has a strong two thirds but hits the breaks way too early. It's a shame because it has good air time hills and an intense helix. I know some may say that I should enjoy what a ride and not what it doesn't. Too some extent I agree. However I rode Fury 325 a week earlier and that is a complete ride. Orion just lacks that something. And finally Banshee. I feel fortunate to have got on this, a week prior to my trip, a guest had actually got into the ride area and was killed by a train. I found Banshee incredibly disappointing actually. It is a huge B&M invert with a beautiful colour scheme but my god it is so forceless. I don't really understand how they went from Oz'Iris which is a top tier invert, to this in just two years. I had two rides on Banshee and neither really did anything for me. The only bit I really enjoyed was the slow zero-g roll at the end of the ride. I can't even say that the restraints were the problem because they weren't. Banshee is the only Invert to feature the new restraints. Here the ride lacked that kick that inverters like Nemesis, Katun and Afterburn feature, that whippiness and aggressive pacing that takes them to the next level. I'd heard fantastic things about Mystic Timbers and to be fair this is pretty good. I liked the way the ride goes off into the woods (which is a very popular American woodie feature) and I liked the pacing. The shed itself is naff though and it feels like it's done purely because the train has to sit in the break run for 60 seconds so they attempted a show element. The Beast is probably Kings Island most iconic ride and we'd heard all about the legendary night rides. We only rode this at night for context so I couldn't really tell you what the layout does without watching a POV. It was absolutely class at night though. There's clearly an aura around this ride and night rides are legendary. Hundreds of people waiting way after 11pm to get on this ride. IMO it didn't disappoint and was a highlight of the trip. There's something so peaceful and yet nerve wracking about being on a ride and not having a clue of where you are going. It's just you, the stars and the night sky following you and the 35 other people traversing through the woods. It felt like a proper moment where theme park passion comes alive and you get off feeling so much better for having done it. With the highlights ticked off, next comes the lesser talked stuff. The Bat is an arrow suspended and is my least favourite of the five remaining. It never felt like it got going and lacked the swing that Vortex (at Canadas Wonderland) or Vampire has. Invertigo never opened and hasn't been open since my visit so that could be dead. The two wooden duelling coasters named Racer were excellent and the park clearly looks after them as they rode fantastically. Adventure Express was a very good arrow mine train, with actual theming and a non janky, exciting layout. I love an arrow mine train and each one is so different from the last. Truly unique. Backlot Stunt Coaster was just like the other two I have ridden, this one did have working effects though which makes a difference. Flight of Fear was fine, apparently reopened after track welding work. It's not a favourite but its relatively well themed and has a good layout. The new ride, Snoopys Car thing, was a good Vekoma boomerang and there was a good level of kiddy coasters in this area with Woodstock Express and Woodstocks Air Rail. On the face of it the rides aren't the problem so what exactly was it that wasn't clicking about the park? Well simply put, I think whilst the park does run full capacity on rides and it does have very engaged ride teams, I don't think the way they operate their rides is particularly effective. For example the team absolutely blitz it down ride platforms, shouting to lift lap bars when trains park. But sometimes this frantic, over the top activity just creates confusion for park guests and puts them on edge. You stress out a park guest, they start to behave in odd ways. They start to do things like exit vehicles in the wrong way. They don't do seat belts up, they may try to walk up lift hills. It also starts to throw off other park employees. One example I have is we were waiting front row on Diamondback and we were told we wouldn't be on the next train because of disabled guests. Okay fine. But the disabled guests never turned up. The platformers just put the bars down, in their frantic race to roll trains. The miscommunication, the frantic action meant groups who have positioned themselves to ride together are thrown off, it means a premier seat goes out empty (one you are waiting longer for anyway) and to me is not good park operation. Just rolling out trains is no good if you aren't effectively filling the trains to maximum capacity. The other gripe I have is the idea that running three trains is how you deal with capacity but actually, the rides are effectively designed to have a train sit on the break run for 2 minutes whilst the one in the station loads. I've always found it curious that you effectively seat people for 2 minutes and ending the ride not in the giddy high of what they have just experienced, but in boredom because the adrenaline rush is over and they've been sitting in the breaks for what feels like a long time. The only hypers I have seen to run a good three train service is Silver Star and Nitro. All the others, particularly at Cedar Fair just run three trains out of obligation but with no actual benefits of doing so. Reliability was also a clear issue with numerous ride closures throughout the day. I can take poor reliability with good communication but the real issue was the impact that had with Fast Lane. The service at KI is relatively affordable but the problem is where the end of Fast Lane is. At Kings Island, it was nearly always at the ride platform and everyone seemed to have this problem of scanning their wrist bands. So the batching process was essentially paused whilst huge numbers of people pass through the skip the line service. Frequently trains would be waiting in the station for more guests to load because batching had effectively stalled. Because Fast Lane is obviously prioritised, it meant they had first choice on front row and back row so stand by is effectively left with all the in-betweens. That's if the disabled entry people didn't nick your seats on every train. Here they can choose what row they go in. Because despite there being a batcher, the communication only took place that you wouldn't be on the next train, the batcher wouldn't necessarily not load an area of the train for the disabled guest. So you were hobbled frequently by exit riders. We also had a park wide power cut with only two small flat rides unaffected. For about two hours no rollercoaster was available. So when rides did reopen, they were immediately hit with massive queues and fast lane waits. Add in the frequent break downs and it made for a more frustrating day then it needed to be. Adventure Express only on one train and was advertised as having long waits at the entrance. Racer seemed like a gamble whether they were running both sides or not. All of the issues we faced at Kings Island had not been present at any of the parks we had been to previously. It was really eye opening and frustrating because it should have been a highlight park, for many it's a bucket list park. But I came out of it preferring a lot of the other parks like Dorney and Carowinds. Kings Island didn't even really have the ride hardware, that real stand out attraction to put the more negative thoughts out of my mind. Is it worth a visit? Yes. But it isn't outstanding.. Thank you for reading. 😃

Forums have unfortunately died away a bit. The rise of social media is a big part of that. And then with Discords, Slacks, Twitches and whatever else (I feel like an old man talking about that as I have no clue on these things properly), it just adds. The idea of signing up for one specific website to discuss one specific topic is just foreign now. Thorpe-specific as well, it's no coincidence that here at TPM the forums dropped off during a time when investment in the park was at rock bottom. We went from coasters every 3 years, and new attractions yearly, to bouncy castles and mazes being the 'big new things'. And yeah, theme park enthusiasm has changed dramatically. 10 years ago, it focused a lot on "trying" to find out whatever you could, but deep down knowing you would just get the odd glimpse here and there. You might hear from / know someone who legitimately knows something, and you got a kick out of knowing it. But it was all a lot more 'wait and see'. Now, influencer culture more broadly means people have quite literally been able to turn their hobbies into a career of sorts. It's their job to find out the information, be that camping out for days on end, working alongside the parks or what have you. It feels a lot more stifled. This point really resonated with me @Inferno We're currently experiencing a double-edged sword of information. Getting 'behind the curtain' is so much easier now, be that through press nights, VIP BTSs, park open-ness, etc. But sometimes a bit of ignorance can be bliss too, or that more scattergun approach feels more natural. Seeing behind the curtain is very controlled, parks will naturally sweep the dirt under the rug before they do that (literally, in some cases). There was something much more exciting about just catching glimpses here and there in a more uncontrolled way. At the same time, just reading your Face it Alone review from Studio 13, it made me go "Damn, I wish we had a POV of it. I would love to remember how it looked during that middle third which is such a blur". Even if we know that a press night POV would be over-egged, it would still be good to see (okay, there wasn't a 'press night' in the way we're used to describing that for FN14, but you know what I mean). We're really in a golden age of being able to document and archive stuff, which I think is positive. Going back to a more TPM-focus now, I've literally spent more than half my life as a member on this forum. I've made life-long friendships here. At one point, I house-shared with a couple of people I met through TPM. Whilst that's stuff that could happen on Twitter / Discord / Whatever, it just felt much more natural here. I always feel like these days I could contribute more to the forums, but as Benin says, growing up means forums slowly subside in the priority list. With TPM, we keep the socials active. The forums and the website have suffered. The main website in particular; backend-wise, it's ancient, and those problems have crept into the look of the website (you can't actually read any news article at the moment, lol whoops). We're looking at fixing that over summer though... We intend to keep the forums running. We're probably long removed from the days of running meets. But we never ran paid-for meets/events (even when we got ERTs, BTSs, etc), and don't intend to go down that way. TPM is just a couple of people who like Thorpe and like sharing that enthusiasm with others, through both sharing updates and discussing things. Don't want to make it a career or anything. We've never gone down the Youtube/vlogging route, simply because we don't want to talk in front of a camera. We're not changing who we are, even if that means we're becoming a bit of relic to enthusiasm of yesteryear. Anyway, that was very tangential to this and rambling and hijacking of the topic at hand. The whole theme park enthusiasm has changed, some of it for the better, some for the worse. I guess the good thing is you can still make of it what you want. It's just a shame it's harder to keep it 'as it was', if you will, when the rest of it has changed around you.

You know those 'memory' notifications you get on your iPhone now and then, where it features a load of photos from a past trip? One of those popped up for me recently from an old meet up we had on another site, which sent me on a bit of a nostalgic frenzy. Since that happened, I've spent a bit too much time these last few weeks looking back through old photos and videos, and it's prompted me to reach out to some old 'theme park friends' who I haven't spoken to for a while. To be honest it's been absolutely bloody fab. But it's got me thinking... Being a theme park enthusiast just isn't what it used to be. I'm wondering if others feel this way too? Of course I dearly miss the days in my teens where I'd regularly meet my friends at the parks, but equally I am finding myself really missing all the fan forums that there used to be, and how busy they were every evening. The forums used to be buzzing with excitement and discussion about our weird shared favourite topic! And that was just it, it was a discussion, often about the unknown. It was rare that we actually knew what was going to be happening at the parks, so speculation and rumour really did drive the discussion and keep everyone interested! Aside from the big forums and fan sites, there were also countless smaller sites, run by people who loved the parks just as much and just wanted to share their hobby and interest. It didn't stop at the forums either - YouTube was awash with videos from enthusiasts everywhere, not just the big names, who now seem to have unlimited access to everything. I remember sat at my laptop in my room at my parents house, most nights I'd check my usual sites and channels for any updates I could find! It was exciting - had someone managed to get a blurry photo from underneath a fence, or even better get a 20 second video clip of a scare maze entrance, or a trench being dug somewhere? Or the rare holy grail, someone had found some plans on a planning portal somewhere! 😮 I absolutely loved the mystery and excitement surrounding everything - "what could be under those tarps?", "Did anyone see that crane today?", "There's a new poster for Fright Nights!"... If you wanted to know what happened inside the Asylum, you would need to physically go into the Asylum and find out for yourself! There were no HD POV videos from press night, no behind the scenes videos, and no real construction updates to speak of. All you had to go on was the reviews and discussion from others who had been through before. God... it was brilliant wasn't it? There's no denying, however, that things are better now. We got what we wanted. We now have more access to information than ever before, with the parks being very open about what they're doing, and the YouTubers and Influencers of today being very detailed in what they show. It really is good that we have access to all this stuff - but I have to admit I do miss the days when the 'news' came from everyone - whoever happened to be at the parks (or peeping over the fences) that day, with their blackberry camera out and ready to snap a picture or two! I think the age of the influencer and all of this free and open information has nearly killed off the forums, and the way that theme park enthusiasm used to be. It seems that now, the 'star enthusiasts' who run the major YouTube channels and social media pages, are in some ways an extension of the park's own marketing team, with some influencers quite literally being employed by the parks, even creatively responsoble for some of the attractions... It would also appear that, although I have nothing against any influencers out there, that the enthusiast game has in some ways become about building up an audience and even making a living from it - it's not as much a 'hobby' as it used to be it seems? Taking a wonky photo of the Curse arriving on the rain soaked beach, or Saw the Ride's brand new supports going in to the newly reclaimed land, and getting home to plug in your cable to transfer the image to your laptop to post it on the forums was never about seeing how many likes you could get - it was about sharing the joy with like-minded people from across the country, or it was in my case at least, then having a good chat about it. Social media has killed off the forums really hasn't it, all those little hidden communities where friendships were made and interests were shared! There's no denying that social media is better, and information is more readily available, but are we better off as enthusiasts? I'm not convinced we are.

Disclaimer: This is a long, geeky post. If you don't like statistics or maths talk, turn back now! If you'd like a more concise summary, a TL;DR can be found at the bottom. Hi guys. When you go to a park, you will often see advertised queue times all over the place to help you determine how long the ride queues are. But sometimes, you might find that these do not necessarily tell the truth. At times, you might get in a queue with a reasonable advertised time and wait far longer than expected, and at other times, you might get in a queue with a long advertised time and wait far less than expected. With this in mind, you might be wondering; how accurate actually are these advertised queue times? Can they be relied upon? Or are they largely hokum? Well, dear reader, that is the question I'm aiming to answer today. Through the power of statistics, I am going to work out; how accurate are advertised queue times? Let's firstly start with the methodology of my statistical analysis... Methodology You might be wondering "Matt, how on Earth are you going to get hold of advertised and actual queue time data to conduct this analysis?". Well, the answer to that is that I had an idea... for years, I've been writing trip reports from various theme parks, and within these, I often make reference to the advertised queue time and how it compared to the actual queue time. And I was thinking that I could use my anecdotes from some of these trip reports as samples for the analysis. Yes, there's finally a day where my comparisons of advertised and actual queue times come in handy! My method entailed reading my various trip reports from the UK Merlin parks from over the years and looking for anecdotes referring to the advertised queue time in comparison to the actual queue time of a ride. I chose the UK Merlin parks because these are where I have by far the most data from, and they are also likely to share similar technology, processes and the like for determining advertised queue times, which removes any uncertainty from working with companies with differing processes. I should note that I did not count every time I went on a ride. I only counted rides where there was one of: An explicit comparison between advertised queue time and actual queue time given. A comparison between advertised queue time and actual queue time that heavily hinted towards the actual queue time given. For instance, words like "walk-on" or "I waltzed straight onto the train" would infer a 0 minute actual queue time, and words like "the queue time board stayed true to its word" would infer no discrepancy between the advertised and actual queue times. There were rides I did not count, as I felt that they would not be representative of the actual main queue. These are: Any time where I talk about using a Single Rider Queue or otherwise benefitting considerably from single rider status (such as being called to walk past a long queue to fill an empty seat). Any time where I talk about using Fastrack or similar. Any time where I talk about waiting longer for a specific experience, such as the front row. Through these rules, I was able to gather: 15 days and 75 rides of data from Alton Towers, dating back as far as 23rd June 2019 9 days and 48 rides of data from Thorpe Park, dating back as far as 6th May 2018. 3 days and 9 rides of data from Legoland Windsor, dating back as far as 31st August 2017. 1 day and 3 rides of data from Chessington, from 17th September 2023. I should also give a few caveats. These are: This is my data and mine only. There are multiple reasons why that means that it may not be a fully representative sample. For example, Chessington and Legoland are under-represented, whereas Alton Towers and Thorpe Park are over-represented. The actual level of understatement may be higher than what this analysis suggests, as this only factors in queues I have personally waited in. If a queue looks vastly understated at first glance, there's a good chance I won't join it. Where I provided a range of time for the actual queue length, I went with the upper bound. For example, if I described a queue as taking 20-25 minutes, I logged the actual queue time as 25 minutes. I should strongly emphasise that this is not a massively exact science. The measurement of actual queue time was me looking at my watch throughout the queue, and for a variety of reasons, the movement of a queue can be affected in ways that the advertised time can't account for. With this out of the way, let's move onto the actual meat of the analysis... For each part of the analysis, I'll look at an individual park, as well as all 4 Merlin parks amalgamated together. For the individual park, I picked Alton Towers, as this is the park for which I have the most data. Let's start with a simple correlation analysis to determine the strength of the relationship between advertised queue time and actual queue time... Correlation For those not aware, the correlation between two variables determines whether or not they are inter-related. The magnitude of a correlation lies between 0 and 1, with 0 indicating no correlation and 1 indicating a perfect strong correlation, and a correlation can also be positive or negative. A positive correlation means that as the value of one variable rises, the value of the other rises in unison, while a negative correlation means that as the value of one variable rises, the value of the other falls. Now that I've explained a bit about correlation, let's have a look at what the data says about the correlation between advertised queue time and actual queue time! I'll consider two different correlation coefficients, Pearson and Spearman. Pearson's correlation coefficient assumes a linear relationship between two variables, whereas Spearman's correlation coefficient does not. If we look at Alton Towers on an individual level, the scatter graph of advertised queue time and actual queue time looks something like this: And the correlation figures are as follows: Correlation Type Correlation Coefficient (2dp) Correlation Classification Pearson 0.67 Moderate Positive Correlation Spearman 0.74 Moderate Positive Correlation Whereas if we look at the UK Merlin parks overall, the scatter graph of advertised queue times versus actual queue times is as follows: And the correlation figures are as follows: Correlation Type Correlation Coefficient (2dp) Correlation Classification Pearson 0.65 Moderate Positive Correlation Spearman 0.70 Moderate Positive Correlation So if we look at correlation, I think we can conclude that there is a relationship between advertised queue time and actual queue time. Based on correlation alone, we can infer that on a general level, there is a moderate-to-strong correlation between advertised and actual queue time, so if the advertised queue time increases, you can generally expect actual queue time to increase along with it. However, the correlation is far from a perfect positive correlation, so this will not be the case in every scenario. In fact, the fact that the positive correlation does not even quite breach the threshold of "strong" (which I was told was 0.75) would suggest that this is not always the case by a long shot, and the relationship is far from perfectly proportional. So in general, the correlation analysis would suggest that the advertised queue times are trustworthy to a broad extent to get a gauge of the broader picture, but perhaps with a notable margin of error for exact figures. Let's now look at the average discrepancy... Discrepancy (Vector) Let's now look at the average discrepancy as a vector quantity. Vector quantities have both magnitude and direction, so this form of discrepancy will consider whether the queue is overstated or understated as well as its actual magnitude. Where the queue is overstated, the discrepancy is negative, whereas the discrepancy is positive where the queue is understated. If we firstly look at Alton Towers on an individual level, here are the boxplots showing the ranges of raw and proportional discrepancies respectively. It's important to consider proportional discrepancy because if an advertised queue time is longer, there's bound to be a larger discrepancy in general: And the raw and proportional discrepancy stats, as well as average queue time, are as follows. Both mean and median values are provided, as each metric has flaws in isolation and I felt that showing both offered maximum transparency: Average Advertised Queue Time (minutes, 1dp) Average Raw Discrepancy (minutes, 1dp) Average Proportional Discrepancy (1dp) Adjusted Average Proportional Discrepancy (1dp) Mean (Calculated Average) 28.3 2.2 8.8% 7.8% Median (Middle Value) 25 0 0% 0% I should clarify that Average Proportional Discrepancy is the average of the proportional discrepancies listed alongside each anecdote, which excludes those where the advertised queue time was 0 minutes and the actual queue time was a different number (you cannot divide a non-zero number by 0, so a percentage proportion cannot be provided). Adjusted Average Proportional Discrepancy is a simpler calculation of Average Raw Discrepancy as a share of Average Advertised Queue Time on an overall basis, which (sort of) takes these into account. If we now look at the UK Merlin parks overall, here are the boxplots showing the ranges of raw and proportional discrepancy respectively: And the raw and proportional discrepancy stats, as well as average advertised queue time, are as follows: Average Advertised Queue Time (minutes, 1dp) Average Raw Discrepancy (minutes, 1dp) Average Proportional Discrepancy (1dp) Adjusted Average Proportional Discrepancy (1dp) Mean (Calculated Average) 26.1 1.3 13.7% 5.1% Median (Middle Value) 25 0 0% 0% So looking at this, Alton Towers and UK Merlin queue times are understated by up to 1-2 minutes on average. If we look at the median, that would imply that there's no discrepancy between advertised and actual queue time at all on average, and even the higher mean values infer that there are average discrepancies of less than 10% in some cases. At face value, these stats would give reason to believe that Merlin's advertised queue times are very accurate overall, with an average error of only 1-2 minutes and less than 10%. However, you should note my use of the term "at face value"... because that's not the full picture. You might remember that earlier, I said about how the discrepancy being shown here is a vector quantity, meaning that it has both magnitude and direction. That means that understated queues have a positive discrepancy value and overstated queues have a negative discrepancy value, so the two balance each other out. So while you'd think that the low average discrepancies shown here mean that the queue times are very accurate... the use of vector discrepancies here mean that all this really shows is that understating and overstating balance each other out quite nicely, meaning that you can't really rely on Merlin parks to understate or overstate their queues. They both understate and overstate to broadly equal extents. To get the true picture of how accurate these queue times really are, we need to convert the discrepancy values into a scalar quantity and look at the absolute values of discrepancy... Absolute Discrepancy To get the true gist of how accurate these queue times really are, let's now look at the absolute discrepancy values. Absolute means that only the magnitude of discrepancy is considered, and that the discrepancy values are scalar quantities rather than vector quantities. If we firstly look at Alton Towers on an individual level, the boxplots showing the range of raw and proportional absolute discrepancy values are as follows: And the raw and proportional absolute discrepancy stats, as well as average queue time, are as follows: Average Advertised Queue Time (minutes, 1dp) Average Raw Absolute Discrepancy (minutes, 1dp) Average Proportional Absolute Discrepancy (1dp) Adjusted Average Proportional Absolute Discrepancy (1dp) Mean (Calculated Average) 28.3 14.1 39.3% 49.6% Median (Middle Value) 25 10 27.5% 40% If we look at the UK Merlin parks overall, the boxplots showing the ranges of raw and proportional absolute discrepancy are as follows: And the raw and proportional absolute discrepancy stats, as well as average queue time, are as follows: Average Advertised Queue Time (minutes, 1dp) Average Raw Absolute Discrepancy (minutes, 1dp) Average Proportional Absolute Discrepancy (1dp) Adjusted Average Proportional Absolute Discrepancy (1dp) Mean 26.1 13.5 58.7% 51.6% Median 25 5 33.3% 20% So looking at these stats, UK Merlin queue times are wrong by 5-15 minutes on average, and broadly, the average proportional absolute discrepancy ranges between 20% and almost 60%. This would imply that the advertised queue times are not phenomenally accurate, and may not be 100% correct in terms of the exact figure on average. However, it would suggest that they are still quite good at a more general level to get a general gauge of how long a queue might be. If a queue is advertised at 100 minutes, it's unlikely to be walk-on, and vice versa. These figures suggest that the advertised queue times can generally be used as a broad gauge of the length of the queue, but should not be taken as gospel and the exact figures should be taken with some degree of caution. Let's now look at some final conclusions... Conclusion So in conclusion, how accurate are these advertised queue times? Well, I think these results show that they're overall reasonable as a gauge of the broad ballpark the queue time is likely to fall into, but have somewhat weaker accuracy at determining exact queue times. In terms of the correlation analysis, the advertised queue time and the actual queue time have a reasonable correlation, but not a perfect one. The two are moderately positively correlated, with a correlation coefficient of around 0.6-0.7, which would suggest that the two variables are broadly related and do increase in unison with one another in general, but this is far from a perfectly proportional increase and is not a perfect rule by any means. On average, the vector discrepancy between advertised queue time and actual queue time was to be understated by 1-2 minutes, and the percentage margin of error was often to be understated by less than 10%. This suggests that understating and overstating overall happen to roughly equal degrees, and you can't really rely on Merlin to reliably do either. On average, the absolute discrepancy between advertised queue time and actual queue time was 5-15 minutes, and the percentage margin of error for the advertised queue time was between 20% and 60%. This would suggest that the advertised queue times are rarely 100% accurate and should be treated with a degree of caution and a margin of error, but that they're generally decent as a way of gauging broadly how long a queue will be. If a queue is advertised at 30 minutes, for example, you can assume that it will probably be between about 15 minutes and about 45 minutes. That is quite a wide margin, admittedly, but the advertised queue times are unlikely to be amazingly wrong, on the whole. A 30 minute advertised queue, as an example, would indicate a roughly "middle of the road" queue time with a reasonable degree of reliability; the queue is unlikely to be obscenely short, but it's unlikely to be obscenely long as well. So in conclusion, I think this analysis suggests that the advertised queue times are decent for getting an idea of broadly how long a queue is likely to be, but are worse at pinpointing the actual exact queue time, and the estimates should be considered with a good margin of error and not taken as exact estimates. If you'd like to look at my data, here are the full spreadsheets for Alton Towers and UK Merlin queue times respectively: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1c2b05czi2xwwDxKRVBMJ9qyB3_-_b0RyMdc-N8n8JJI/edit?usp=sharing https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jpqqpu2pErHY41vHTpDP_NEZqnjuMwgtVVp99JexjvI/edit?usp=sharing So that brings us to the end of this statistical analysis! I hope you enjoyed reading it as much as I enjoyed concocting it, and I hope you found it interesting! I'd be really interested to hear your thoughts; I'm receptive to any feedback, good or bad! TL;DR: I performed a statistical analysis to try and determine how accurate advertised queue times are, using datasets of advertised vs actual queue times in Alton Towers and the UK Merlin parks taken from my past trip reports. A correlation analysis showed that there was a moderate positive correlation of magnitude 0.6-0.7 between advertised and actual queue time, indicating that they do generally increase in unison, but that this is far from a perfect trend and this is not necessarily a proportional increase. An analysis of average vector discrepancies showed that Merlin parks do not reliably understate or overstate queue times, with both understating and overstating happening to broadly equal degrees. An analysis of average absolute discrepancies showed that the queue times can provide a broad idea of roughly how long a queue may be, but are unlikely to be too accurate at determining the exact queue time.

Wonderful news. I know they've been talking about it behind the scenes for a while, so good to see it's come to fruition. I know some people will say the park should be open that later regardless over summer, but it has always been the case that the demand isn't there. Trialling it / doing it on select days helps test the waters. Hopefully this can be a step to later summer closing, and maybe even the park testing 10pm Fright Nights closes again.

Opening hours have been extended until 9pm on the last 2 Saturdays of August (24th and 31st) Great to see - especially at a time when hours are being cut on a weekly basis at Towers at the moment...

I can give insight here. A few years ago (well, more than a few years now...8 years ago...I'm old), I had a job at Thorpe which was focusing primarily on 'looking after queue times', if you will. I had to update queue times that would appear on the boards, along with some other things. At the time when I joined, it was simply a glance and estimate. It was a two-way operation: the ride operator was required to contact the 'queue person' (ie: me) via phone once an hour (at a minimum), saying what they thought the queue time was. The queue person would also walk around the park, visually looking at all queues and updating the queue times. How is it physically done? All updates were done via a secure webpage. The queue person walked around with an iPad and could update directly all queue times from said webpage. Other people (park managers, etc) had access and ability to as well (will get onto this later). How would ride operators know what the queue time is? This was done by looking at the length of the queue, which for many rides, they could only see through via the ride's security cameras. The security cameras ride operators have access to focus primarily on ride areas (making sure no one is entering them), meaning coverage was mixed. Ride operators would sometimes not see much of the queue. Note: Queue lines are still covered by CCTV cameras, but ride operators won't have access to them all necessarily. The ride operator job is to run the ride safely. And that's a key point, the ride operator is there to run the ride safely, look after the ride hosts, etc. Updating queue times can go quite low on the list of priorities. Also, ride operators generally didn't have much knowledge of queue times. It would all be based on own experiences, either from when they might have visited the park and queued themselves, other operators, what guests say, etc. Generally they would get good ballpark figures, but when you hit busy periods, that experiential data is less helpful. How would the Queue Person know what the queue time is? Same idea. They would walk around, see the queue time, and update it. The advantage they had is they could see the whole queue, and have knowledge of what else is going on around the park. Eg: Colossus operator might not be aware that Saw closed down recently, meaning more people might flock there if they're nearby and want to ride a coaster. Queue Person would know this, and could keep a closer eye as a result. So it was all guesswork? Going onto my experience of working in this position as the queue man. I noted straight away there was very minimal written down information about how the physical length of a queue translates to a queue time. Of course, everyone was aware that this is a very muddled science: it depends on operations, number of trains, number of Fastrack / RAP users, delays, etc etc. Many of those things ride operators will not be aware of explicitly. Some of those things are out of a singular person's control. However, there is a way of turning it into a science. "Queueing theory" is a very rich area of maths, for example, which gives us many lessons we can learn. There's a lot of social science studies into how people will fill up a given space with strangers. There is access to lots of data about the rides; their uptime, their throughput/utilisation, so on and so on. You can combine all of those factors together to give a better estimate for queue times, one which relies on data, rather than just guesswork. Taking the Guessing out of the Guesswork I'll chuck in a bit of the numbers and theory here. Feel free to skip over. When thrown into a barriered queue, you'll find people spread out in similar ways. Except in extreme scenarios (very wide or very narrow queue lines), about 11 people will fill up 3m of space. This is to do with how groups of people will huddle together, groups will leave a space, etc. That data comes from a published research paper back in 2014/15 I believe and focused on UK audiences. Would be interesting to see if that's changed post-Covid, or is different in other countries. Anyways. If we know that, we can work out how many people a physical queue line holds. For example, if the Colossus queue line was 300m long, it would hold roughly 1100 people. And you can split that up; if the queue line from the airgates to the tunnel of Colossus' queue was 90m long, the number of people between the queue line and boarding is 330. (NB: Lengths made up). Now, we know what Colossus' theoretical throughput is. Internally, there is also a target throughput. But even better, parks track their throughputs for each ride. So you can see what they're actually achieving. If, over the course of last week, Colossus got a throughput of 550pph, and it had a full, 300m long queue line, you could see that it should be a 2 hour queue. Obviously that ignores Fastrack and RAP users. But again, you know the number of RAP and Fastrack users each day. You can take those into account, in some way. You don't know when they're going to use, but you can take it into account. For example, if there were 700 Colossus Fastrack tickets sold for an 8 hour park day, and 500 RAP users expected, you can account for that. If Colossus was getting a throughput of 550ph, over 8 hours it would get 4400 riders. But 1200/4400 of those riders came from Fastrack or RAP. So that means only 73% of riders are coming through the main queue, or rather the throughput of the main queue is 73% of 550, which is 400pph. Now if that 300m long queue of Colossus is filled with 1100 people, and you know 400pph are going through that queue, you can advertise the queue at 2h45min, rather than 4 hours. (Again, all numbers are fake here) On top of that, you can also take into account the chance of a shutdown. If Colossus has an uptime of 95%, then that means its closed 5% of the time. Of course, this is unlikely to spread evenly across the day, and usually occurs in a chunk, but if you add on that extra, you create a buffer which allows for a 'chance of shutdown', or just anything going wrong (slower operations, etc). I'll take this chance here to say: ride staff do not artificially inflate queue times to sell Fastrack tickets. I've no doubt it happens whereby a queue is advertised much longer than it is, and people have ended up buying Fastrack. But the queue time is not inflated to drive Fastrack sales. In saying that, I think it's better to advertise a queue time which might be 5-10 minutes longer since it will: 1) Create a buffer in case of issues and 2) Create happy guests - "Oh, the queue was advertised as 50 minutes, but we actually queued 40...result!" So, the way that I planned to calculate (note the word calculate, not estimate/guess) queue times would be: (N*(1+D))/(T*(1-(F/R))), where: N is number of people in queue D is percentage downtime T is throughput F is number of Fastrack and RAP users expected R is total ridership expected for the day Those 4 last variables would be based off numbers from how the ride has run over a period of several days / weeks prior, giving it a good outlook at how it should operate in practice. It wouldn't be perfect, but it does the job. And of course, number of people in a queue is again estimated, but can be done reasonably well. Of course, this isn't something that can be done in your head or anything, but can all be programmed to be done automatically, so long as you say the number of people in the queue roughly. When I trialled this system, it worked well, with overall accuracy of queue times improved, and less complaints about inaccurate queue times, which also saw a reduction in complaints about queue times altogether for a short period of time. (Those two might not be linked, but I'm gonna claim it's because of me). I'm a Celebrity was one which hugely benefitted, in part down to the huge buy in from the Entertainments Team running it. The issue here is, simply put, getting buy in from others. I required a bit more help setting up the automation and implementing it on a broader scale. Some people are opposed to change, some people are opposed to change where they don't understand every detail, some are just happy with the way things are. Some of Matt's analysis here is exactly the sort of thing which would be excellent for the operations teams at Merlin theme parks to see, so they can have more detailed data to help them determine how they're performing and the reflection on advertised queue times. But from my past experience within the parks, you would find yourself encountering people who: -Don't understand the analysis behind this, so immediately disregard it, -Would love the bottom line, but wouldn't use the data to help improve it, -Disregard everything and say everything is fine, -Agree with everything, but don't have the time/resources to action upon anything that would help. Obviously, with shifts in Merlin, this may be different now. But it's such a difficult thing to achieve. There are (naturally) some excellent data-driven minds who work in Merlin, who would love this stuff too, but they are used in other roles, usually outside of day-to-day operation / outside of attractions entirely. So Merlin know the importance of these things, it just hasn't trickled down to operational success. My time within the queue person job ended back in 2017, and this isn't the place to discuss that. But ultimately, the system devolved into operators phoning a central figure in an office to update queue times, with managers also chipping it. Likely with zero consistency. I don't know how things are this season admittedly, and I've been impressed with the accuracy being better than it has in the past. So maybe they've got something a bit better now. FAQ Do all parks do this guesswork? Within Merlin, I believe so yes. I think Towers have staff at rides update queue times, and Chessington was similar. Why did Thorpe need a central figure to update queue times? Couldn't it just be done by each ride through the website? The issue with the website and multiple users would be the constant need to refresh. If, say, there were 2 people on the website, and Person A updates Colossus' queue time from 10 minutes to 50 minutes, the site according to Person B would still have Colossus' queue time listed as 10 minutes, even though it was displaying on boards as 50. Then, if Person B updated Swarm's queue time from 30min to 20min, without refreshing the website, they would also update Colossus' queue time back to 10 minutes. So yeah, clunky system. I don't know if they've updated this. *This park* advertises queue times super accurately, how do they do it? I don't know. I would love to know how parks like Efteling, Europa, etc do it. Why can't parks just count the number of people going into a queue and going on a ride, using barriers, infrared, whatever? These work nicely in theory, but are open to abuse (people spinning barriers) and prone to error. The Alton Towers app had some Bluetooth tracking tech a while back, where it could see where guests were spending more of their time, etc. I don't know if they still do that, but I believe attractions.io (the company that does the Merlin apps and more) have loads of cool backend features. With Saw though, they had a very cool (rather complicated) piece of software they trialled. The name escapes me, but I'm sure I'll find it sooner or later. Basically though, it would track people in all queue lines, to see how long people were spending in the queues, and use it to give accurate queue times. It would update regularly, and give to the minute readings (eg, 47 minutes). This software was just installed to work with existing CCTV cameras. And, it worked well. Very well. Queue times were accurate. The system wasn't prone to error or breaking. It just worked, so you could leave it. In saying that, there were operational issues: -If you ever needed to over-ride it, you had to reset all the cameras to get the system back -It would never display a queue time lower than 10 minutes -It didn't work when the queue became external (ie out of the main queue) -People were weirded out by the exact numbers The middle two are the bigger issues here, but again, not huge in the grand scheme of things. There were bigger, more damning issues: -It was expensive. I don't know how much, but given every other queue time system is free pretty much, spending money on one is an issue. Spending lots of money is a bigger issue. -It required static CCTV cameras on the entire queue line. Whilst the entirety of Thorpe Park is covered by CCTV, many of these have the ability to change angle, which can help in a security situation. If you needed static CCTV cameras for the queue lines, it meant having to buy, set up, operate and maintain more new ones. And for some queue lines, this would require an awful lot (Colossus would be nightmare, with its sprawling queue line, going through tunnels, foliage, etc). Ultimately, whilst it gave accurate queue times, the initial outlay cost, and ongoing maintenance costs, weren't justifiable. Do accurate queue time really matter? Just to round off on this very long, tangential post (sorry Matt!). How important are accurate queue times? At the low level, yes, it's handy to know if a queue is 5 minutes or 10-15 minutes. At an extreme level, it's good to know if a queue is 1 hour or 2 hours. But beyond that? Does it matter if a queue is 30 minutes or 35 minutes? 110 minutes or 130 minutes? I think sometimes there's an overpush on queue time accuracy: if a queue is advertised at 110mins and I queue 130mins, I've still queued about 2 hours for a ride, with added annoyance that I've queued an extra 20 minutes than I was told. It might be better if there's ranges that are advertised (0-10, 10-20, etc, 90-120, 120-150, etc). It buckles you up for the length of the queue, tempers expectations, but gives leeway for a park too. You can have the most accurate queue times in the world, but if they're long and / or slow, that's all people will care or remember about.

I'm gonna throw "THE VOID" into the ring as a possible name. Likely completely wrong, but it came to me in a dream about easter eggs and nodding. Also, since Thorpe have started the Fright Nights advertising, expect Tulleys to tease/update on their (sort of) 3 new additions for this year (1 new maze, retheme of THE ISLAND, new live show cos no more Circus of Horrors)

The Passing returns - hopefully they’ve at least shaken off the head bags and charged the iPod shuffles before we go again.

I do miss the old days however I'm very appreciative of the accessibility of theme park enthusiasm now. When I first got into rides it was a very white male dominated environment. Whilst that is certainly still true to some extent, I'm glad that meets through Towers Times for example seem much more diverse then before. I miss the discussion on forums though and twitter is certainly no replacement as opinions there are very much ingrained. The amount of people that tell me Zadra is top tier RMC... it just baffles the mind

Attraction Source had a presentation and Q&A from Mack Rides at their recent event; it has been uploaded to YouTube: I haven't watched it all, but there is a look at the first layout that Mack designed (spoilers: it's very different)

Single rider can vary due to a number of factors, but generally I have found on 4/5 attempts it has been between 20 and 30 mins from about 2/3 of the final straight towards the stairs, but on one occasion that same amount was over 40 mins. It seems to have been quiet pre 12 on my visits before getting longer.

My apologies for bumping this thread, but as I posted in it with university woes at an earlier stage, I feel I should offer an update… I’ve had my final degree award confirmed this morning… and I got a First Class Honours, with my final award mark being 82.85/100! That means I am now a degree graduate, with a BSc in Computer Science from the University of Gloucestershire! My journey through university has not been plain sailing, but I’m happy I did it, and I’m pleased and relieved to finally have a degree!

Having done the ride in the front, back and middle, it is without a doubt a stunning ride. Operations seemed very good yesterday. It’s a shame the splashdown looks messy at the moment, but hopefully this is something that can be sorted sometime. The moments of floater, ejector and hang time on this ride are simply immense IMO.

As we approach the start of the preparation for Fright Nights 2024, I thought I'd do a few more blog post ramblings on some nostalgic Thorpe memories I have. I started off a couple of years ago now, with Dr Pepper Sun Scream, then Brave it Alone in Cabin in the Woods back when it opened in 2013... Now it's time for another trip down memory lane, to Brave it Alone in Studio 13, 2014 (a staggering 10 years ago somehow). - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - We did Studio 13 way back in 2014, the second ever year of Brave it Alone, and I believe the last year they let you choose which maze you wanted to experience? So... with our brave it alone tickets booked for the brand new Studio 13, here's what happened! 10PM came around on a surprisingly quiet Fright Nights at Thorpe. We had been fortunate in that we'd managed to experience all of the mazes multiple times that evening, including I believe 3 or 4 runs through Studio. I think unfortunately the days of the lucky quiet evening at FN have long since gone! Much like the previous year when we'd braved it alone in Cabin in the Woods, we met up with the other participants at the Clypso BBQ, and were asked to sign the waver form. One notable difference this year was that there were far fewer staff running this, there were no managers present as there were in large numbers the previous year, and the bar was closed and we weren't offered a drink as part of the experience, although the Director was there again chatting to us along with a couple of members of park staff. As far as I remember, there were 2 of us (my friend and I) doing Studio, 2 others doing Cabin, and 1 doing My Bloody Valentine. So in all honesty you can see why Brave it Alone had to change - they were having to keep 3 mazes open after hours for very little money really.... After chatting with the director for 20 minutes or so, we were taken by one of the members of staff down to the iconic and formidable blue door at the entrance to Studio 13, where we waited and chatted with the member of staff for another 10 minutes or so, the memorable Studio queue music still playing! This was a stark difference to last year, where we were very much outnumbered by concerned staff and Thorpe management who were I think quite stressed about the whole affair... This year it was very much cut back in terms of a single member of staff with us, having a nice chit chat! Anyway... the time had come! While we were chatting at the door, it suddenly swung open, and an actor grabbed my shoulder and screamed at me "YOU'RE LATE! WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN?", as she pulled me inside, shut the door, and held me against the wall opposite. Here, she stood very much in my face and warned me that if my lateness made her look bad, I'd be dead. I was given the hurry up and told to run down the iconic first corridor, while she pushed me along it. When I reached the end of the corridor there were multiple actors waiting for me, all seemingly very upset about how late I was! I was pulled and pushed around, backwards through various doors as far as I remember, then was stood against the wall while they took my 'photo', which involved a blinding flash, before I was spun around multiple times and sent on my way through the next part of the maze alone. I don't think I made it far before I made it to the makeup department scene. I was sat down in to an office chair and as far as I remember I was taped to it, to stop me from 'wasting any more time'! Here I had the unpleasant experience of multiple actors putting makeup on my face! This only lasted a few seconds before I was released and sent on my way through the rest of the maze. I am finding it a struggle to remember the middle part of the maze, but from memory I think much of it was a similar idea to the Asylum, it was very much a case of following the fences through the maze, with no particular scenes as such for a short while. What I do remember though is spending the entire middle portion of the maze being utterly crowded by the actors, who were all seemingly taking it in turns to get right up in to my face to tell me to hurry up! I distinctly, however, remember the ending of the maze... As I approached the bedroom scene, I was surprised to realise that one of them had managed to get a bottle of water in to the front of my jeans and had proceeded to empty the contents in to my nether regions... I have to admit at this point I did think to myself... ok, wtf is this? The majority of the actors then disappeared, and I was left at the entrance of the bedroom scene with a single actor, who had interacted with me earlier on after the makeup scene! He had complimented my pretty eyes and told me "You'll do nicely".... The reason behind all this then became apparent, as he said he wanted me to meet his daughter. I don't specifically remember at what point during the maze my hands had been tied in front of me (or was I wrapped in tape with arms by my side? Can't remember), but I was tied up regardless. The actor pulled me in to the bedroom where I saw his daughter (a live actor I think?) led on the bed. He told me to say hello and give her a kiss, which of course I denied. He pushed me towards the bed, and I believe other actors then came to his aid and also assisted in getting me to be on the bed with her... He then asked me what I was doing, and seemed very angry when he discovered how wet the front of my trousers were 🙄 He had the chainsaw in his hands at this point and told me he'd never let me do this to anyone ever again, before the chainsaw was very abruptly pushed up between my legs, and off we both went down the exit corridor and out of the doors! I was half way across the path before the chainsaw was eventually removed from my damp crotch. The member of staff was waiting at the exit, where she said to me "... you ok?" 🤣. A few moments later my friend came out, who had suffered the same fate, and off we went (still tied up by the way) to collect our bags from the BBQ before heading out. Unfortunately there wasn't an opportunity to chat to the other participants at the other mazes this year as there was previously. -- In conclusion, I will say that I did enjoy Brave it Alone in studio 13, although this was a very different approach to Cabin in the Woods the previous year. Where the Cabin BIA experience focused on a lot of physical pushing and shoving, shouting, being physically picked up and moved, crawling, and even bodily fluids to some extent, the Studio experience was more about making you feel uncomfortable and awkward, and it was a lot less 'hands on' when it came to all the pushing and shoving. It certainly was a less 'scary' experience than the previous year. I don't want to be a bore, but I wouldn't have gone with the bedroom scene, and if I'm honest the wet underwear was something I could have done without on the drive home! I also found the "You're late" storyline (which seemed to fade away during the maze) meant that the experience was very quick as it really was a fast run through the maze. I have to say that I did also miss the 'meet-up' at the bar with everyone at the end, as this was a great way for everyone to chat and compare experiences as you all left the park. All in all, this is a great memory I have of 'old thorpe' - I commend them for trying something niche, and for daring to be different. I love the idea of brave it alone, and who knows, maybe one day it'll make a return in some form or other. But until then, I'll never forget it - Fright Nights a decade ago was Thorpe at its peak in my opinion.

I think with the expansion of Facebook and then Discord the groups on forums just migrated to those places. Being able to make posting footage of things a job also has made a massive contribution to the way the media of it all is consumed and distributed. How many construction updates were just someone taking photos on a random visit rather than being camped out for days on end or a 30 minute video with an asinine presenter and a click bait title? Also many who used them in the "heyday" have grown up, gotten jobs and lives that take precedent over forum times. I will say though some things do irk me about modern enthusiasts. Which isn't solely a theme park based issue. The almost cult-like following of certain "influencers" where their word is law, the way in which everything must be amazing or terrible with zero nuance to things. On the other hand, I do think some places had some very unwelcoming "veterans" and often internal politics/cliques/issues that did not help matters for newcomers or regulars. As mentioned though, this is not an issue solely in this hobby. There's a lot of forums I used to frequent which are very dead, even with there being constant new stuff happening. Discord is king now I feel of the old forum life.

From what I've seen on Twitter, organizers were told very last minute it would be on 1 train, but who knows. Seems like a very strange decision. People had paid good money and I imagine it'll put people off organizing these type of events at Thorpe in the future. There excuse of needing it ready for the next day is nonsense when it ran till 10pm press night and opening day, and will likely run on 2 trains till 9pm daily during fright nights. They could've ran it on 2 if they wanted to/planned it properly.

One train on ERT is not ideal. Wonder if organisers are aware they're getting 1 train ops or not. It also begs a question: If they need to start train maintenance that early they can't run 2 trains for an ERT session, how will they cope during Fright Nights? I went today and got 4 rides by 2pm, which included a closure due to a guest action, as well as weather delays because of heavy rain / threat of electrical storm.

Similarly to you I’ve always found the back to be smoother, and the inside seats to be smoother as well. Front row outside seat is just god awful these days. But I guess it fits the theme better than it ever has before 😂

From my personal experience, I don't really find a difference with what row I sit on. I find different trains to be rougher than others though, I imagine that depends on which ones have recently been serviced, and had wheels replaced etc...

Excellent news! Hopefully the extension of hours rather than cutting hours like Alton Towers are is a sign of Thorpe Park doing well this year! My only concern, though, is that there may not be demand for it. I remember Thorpe Park doing 8pm closes back in August 2019; I went to one of them, and the park had completely emptied out before 6pm. It was brilliant for repeat riding, but a damning indictment of the demand for late night openings… those 8pm openings were quickly dropped shortly after my visit. This is a positive sign on the whole, though! I don’t know if anyone else agrees, but overall, it does seem to me like Thorpe Park is the most prosperous UK Merlin park this year. The Hyperia buzz could be partially contributing to this, but it doesn’t seem like Thorpe has the general air of negativity surrounding it that Chessington and particularly Alton Towers currently have.

Passholders whine more than anyone. I'd want to maim people if it were me dealing with it. Which was probably half the issue with the often sarcastic responses from Thorpe. Fine for an individual, but not when representing a company.

I’d be really interested to know how it works too! In all likelihood, it’s probably some degree of glancing and estimating from the staff. In some cases, I’m not even sure they do that; in one instance logged in my spreadsheet, Vampire at Chessington was advertised at 5 minutes, yet it was nearly out the entrance and I waited 60… I had an idea in my head of a near foolproof way of reliably estimating queue times. Imagine some sort of system that logs the amount of people entering and leaving the queue that’s paired with the ride computer system that logs the ride throughput, uniting queue entry/exit management and ride throughput management in perfect unison to make a wonderful, near foolproof queue time estimation system! Goodness knows how you’d implement it technically, but in the world of IoT and the like, it must surely be possible, at the very least… It’s unlikely to ever come to fruition, but I can dream!

Matt this is absolutely glorious. It’s a weirdly interesting topic that actually has a massive impact on a visit. I’d love to know how queue times are actually measured - or is it literally just a glance and an estimate? I remember some fanfare years ago about Saw the Ride having some sort of Bluetooth thing that tracks where people’s phones are, but that has always sounded like a lot of bs to me 🤷‍♂️

Can you name a single ride that runs flawlessly every day, for its entire existence?

Josh is spot on. All I will say is, last year even on a "quieter" Fright Night I very nearly didn't get all 3 mazes completed that I'd paid for. Had no idea we were "supposed" to keep an hour for each maze, and that's coming from someone who is in the cOmMunItY and not just a casual Thorpe attendee. We ended up queuing 90 minutes for Stitches as I recall last year, and we started queuing 10 minutes after the evening timeslot started. Survival Games after seemed to take forever to queue for.... We got to Trailers mere minutes before it closed, meaning that we were the very last group, and had the sort of run through that only press night VIPs normally get 😅 Make no mistake, I throw no shade at any actors as they always work their socks off, but there's only so much you can do with large groups as maze staff try and clear the queues. I would have loved to have spent longer in Stitches but sadly that wasn't possible and it became a conga line with the next group. My Survival Games run through was below average because a severe lack of actors in the "arena" that's normally swarming with them for the vloggers. Anyway - new maze - it's in the Black Mirror building people have worked out from coordinates in the video/photo Thorpe posted. So what are we thinking? Evidently darkness is the theme of sorts... Vampires? spirits? Just lots of pitch black? To be fair, if done well, lots of darkness could lead to maximum scares....

Oh….? So you’re supposed to show up at the start of the time slot? What, literally every single person on that slot is supposed to show up then? even by their own bizarre logic, it doesn’t work… Because there will still be the same number of people queuing, it’s just they’ll all arrive at once, meaning the queue would start off gargantuan and decrease before the next slot starts. God I miss the days of free mazes, you just turn up and bloody queue… what a concept.

As Stealth has 3 trains, the park rotate which one of them goes under annual maintenance. This means at any given time, one train is always in the maintenance area, deconstructed, having its parts checked, cleaned, inspected, serviced, replaced and whatever else is required. This takes the pressure off having to do it all over winter (when such things would normally happen). The maintenance area has room for all three trains to be stored. It will be up to the engineers on the day which train(s) they want to being in there after park close.

I'm less hopeful. Perhaps I've been naive with Thorpe's logic. Or possibly just stupid. But I've realised what their thinking is with maze tickets. The park are offering a Fearsome Four bundle, which costs £34 for the early slot (3-7pm), or £38 for the late slot (5-9pm). One shot maze tickets remain at £8 for the early slot (choosing a 1 hour time slot of either 3-4pm, 4-5pm or 5-6pm) or £10 for the later slot (choosing a 1 hour time slot of either 6-7pm, 7-8pm or 8-9pm). So that means the Fearsome Four early slot bundle is effectively more expensive than buying four early one shot maze tickets. I clarified this with Thorpe (via their Facebook Passholder group), and they said it is correct because "Based on giving a four hour window, it would be 3 Afternoon slots and 1 evening, hence the price". So, that means if you (say) book a One Shot for 3-4pm, the park aren't saying you can choose any time between 3-4pm to visit that maze, they are saying that you should be dedicating the whole 3-4pm slot for that one maze (in both queueing for and experiencing it). That is how they are organising it, and that is how their numbers work. But this is not clear at all, in my opinion. At the very least, I have only just realised this from Thorpe directly saying this, despite the fact it has always been like this since they introduced the ticketing procedure: "Since introducing ticketing it has always been hourly timeslots for one shots, and then an hour per maze in a package, so this has not changed." So herein lies in the issue. People think they can rock up at any time in their time slot for a maze. So if, say, more than half the people for the 3-4pm slot rock up after half 3 (which is a natural reaction as people will think "Everyone will go at 3pm"), then it spills into the 4-5pm slot. Same thing happens for the 4-5pm slot, and that further spills into the 5-6pm slot. Rinse and repeat, and then you've got a horrible overflow of people in the later slots. Bluntly put, too, there have been too many instants I've seen - and experienced - where the queue line for mazes exceeds 1 hour since the paid-for tickets were introduced. Reasons for that will be varied and complicated, and in some cases, unavoidable. But it's been a consistent issue, and one I don't think they will have put any real effort into solving (although please prove me wrong Thorpe). I don't want to come across as harsh or dismissive. But simply put, it does not seem like Thorpe know or understand how they are advertising or selling the timed ticket system of their mazes, and how the public view and use them. Operationally, the park have shown themselves to be incapable of running the mazes in a way which matches the timed ticket system, and I don't think this will change this year. I fully expect that whatever the new maze is will be to a good quality. Stitches will return and be a hit again. Survival Games will remain well-received thanks to its split up technique (but be less impactful due to focuses being elsewhere). And Trailers will again be fine, but show both its age, and how it was the first maze to be built under this new, budget-heavy, Fright Nights direction. Again, perhaps I've been naive / stupid and this has been glaringly obvious to everyone else. But if this is how Thorpe have operated, and continue to operate, the paid-for / timed-ticket mazes, it will have the same issues it has every year.

Apparently no other investment can be put forward until they have an answer to the water park so literally all decisions including Scorpion Express are supposedly on hold. It is all very strange as there still isn't a decision and planning went in late June/early July last year (13 months ago)

Tiger Rock has re-opened today. Glad they've managed to get it open much quicker than expected.

I've noticed different hosts have different ways of batching too which really influence the single rider wait time. For example, if the back row needs filling and the next group in the main queue is a group of 4, some hosts will just stick 2 single riders on the back row, where as some will call down the queue for the next group of 2.

Wow well done Matt, that’s fantastic!! Congratulations! 🍻 Well done for sticking at it and achieving that First - amazing.

Thanks for posting this! Was a great read (and also great to re-read everyone else's experiences!) I wonder what the logic behind the switch in style was between 2013 and 2014 (and then to 2015 and 2016)? It very much seems like 2013 they were given free reign, and 2014 they stuck to a much more rigid set up. But they then went to a more fluid style in 2015. I liked 2013 and 2014 for very different reasons. As you say, 2014 version wasn't that scary, but the experience itself felt a lot more psychological, which I guess makes sense since it was more rigid / scripted. 2013 was a lot more chaotic and left you wondering what would happen next, but also had the psychological aspect. Very much agree that it was the right call to have a pre-selected maze each evening as opposed to them all, given it was a niche product. I would genuinely love for Thorpe to do an alone experience again. So much potential. I will talk about this until the day I die, but Walibi Holland are the perfect model for how to do an alone experience within a normal theme park setting. Yes, it'll be an expensive upcharge, yes it will have a low throughput. But it won't appeal to everyone and that's fine. Create an experience which can be done again and again in a custom space and it will work. I know that towards the end of Face it Alone, there were several bumps in the proverbial road with its running. AMC were, to my understanding, against the idea of having extreme Face it Alone experiences in their mazes. The manager responsible for its organisation left. The actors were expressing concerns about some guest behaviours (I heard stories of some guests basically asking/expecting/demanding certain things be done to them in Face it Alone). Just seemed like a storm perfect for it stop. But again, I'd love to see it brought back. The park clearly have the budget, resources and creative talent to take the gamble on it. It's just whether they actually want to. I should try and share my 2015 and 2016 experiences at some point...

Great write up, I remember frequently reading many of the park forums back in the day, before deciding to join up myself. it does feel strange how different the theme park enthusiast world now is. Definitely more controlled and refine to say the least. Not to mention many of the additional park sites have closed and disappeared now also. Times do change.

Only 2 years late, but here's my write up of Brave it Alone in Studio 13 in 2014.

Well worded and containing reflections of many of our thoughts. Oddly enough, the improvements in technology and availability of the contact, has disintegrated some forums and clubs, with splinter groups becoming cliques no longer open to "all members"; I have seen it with aeroplane clubs as well as coaster clubs, no doubt this applies to many hobbies. We all have a variety of interests and levels of knowledge which, in the older formats, could and would be shared with wider audiences. Enjoy your hobbies.

Similar thing with the Nemesis redo. There are some bits that look fantastic (the eye), but the bits plonked in the queueline just don't have that same level of care or attention. Looking very cheap in the end.

The tummy-bubbling new Fanta sponsorship has arrived a season early.

As an ERT it was disappointing, as a ride it is brilliant. It's okay for me as I live locally but many members travelled a long way and had paid. What adds to the annoyance is how late the ride opened to the general public with staff members re-riding the "test" runs; not tactful.

I'm a little confused what you mean here? Every park has a limited capacity and all people in the park have paid? But they still have to offer guests value for money, or they won't return / be disgruntled. Thorpe have made an effort to improve throughputs across the park. Stealth is a prime example of this. I'm not sure how much it's affecting throughput, but the park will no doubt be aware of it. No doubt the park have a list of things they'll want to work on, hopefully alongside Mack, to help get things running smoothly. My bigger concern regarding throughput is whether they can keep up the high standard they've set in the station. The park have been sensible and aren't running it on more staff (I believe they're running it on 1 op and 4 hosts, and that is the bare minimum it would need). But they're working their socks, and clearly have a good team. Can they keep that going all season? What about in future seasons? All well and good running it like that now, but if they can't do it when you've got the extra queues, etc, it's a problem.

For me yesterday, I found it extremely frustrating that they chose to remove a train at the beginning and during the ERS, then still sent an empty test train. Sadly this is similar to another certain English park that gradually reduces the amount of available seats by placing the sandbags on board in preparation for the following mornings tests. When it comes to throughput I cannot see TP being bothered as they have a limited capacity, and any people in the park have already paid, they don't have to worry.

Another topic, the park must surely be aware that the break run is seriously impacting throughputs at the moment. No matter how hard they work in the station, I don't think its possible to get higher than around 800. If the train got into the station quicker I imagine they'd easily be hitting 1000+. Do we think this will be sorted in closed season or it'll be left how it is? I'd be surprised if this wasn't changed especially with the parks recent focus on throughputs. At the moment, the queue moves well. But when Fasttrack increases to normal levels and RAP is changed from 1 per visit its a bit concerning how well it'll cope.

Me too on the "event" which was a little frustrating at times, so yes, I have finally ridden Hyperia. I think it is an outstanding roller coaster with some unique tracking. I do like the restraint. No doubt many will make adverse comments but it is what we have, it is great, and it cannot be changed, enjoy it. I don't think one can compare it to other rides, it is unique, in my opinion.

Username checks out.

Detonator's back open for all you Freedom Fireworks Co enthusiasts

It's giving this, isn't it?

u ok hun?

So, summer holidays are approaching and Chessington are closing their water ride all summer. I imagine this is the highest throughput ride on park too. If it re-opens for September, it'll then go back to being closed midweek till the end of season too. Chessington just never gets better does it.

As I intimated, my other main hobby is Aviation and luckily recently I combined a trip to Seattle with Toronto, and as we have discussed, things change; very few aircraft collections/museums now provide guides and likewise with theme parks. I was aware of fellow coaster enthusiasts who used to collect those guide/plans and for them, a major part of our hobby has gone. The comment from these establishments is "it's online".