SteveJ

Exactly, that's just it. But money and popularity come before making an amazing ride these days. Theme parks have always been a business making money, but the industry is now so business-led rather than creative-led that really great projects are getting rarer. So I'm interested to see how this turns out.

A good dark ride shouldn't need a good 'storyline' to be successful and exciting, as it's proven that many people completely disengage and don't make effort to watch the story unfold when they go on a ride. Unless you mean there should be a clear progression of events, there should be the ethos of storytelling, which I completely agree with. It should feel like an adventure with a beginning and end, leading to an exciting climax, but should not rely on a 'plot' as such. It's surprisingly difficult to narrate a storyline in a dark ride and this is why many have been unpopular in the past, even if the story is really clever. I guess that's why so many these days have cop out "video preshows" to inject the story in you, in the most dull way while you queue. A TV screen is not how to excitingly set up a theme, it's just become the convention. I'm 90% sure it will be an IP dark ride. One reason for this is that it relies entirely on people being ALREADY aware of the 'story' before they go in. So there's really no need to introduce any new concepts or characters to the rider in the relatively short time they spend in the attraction, no challenge posed. With an IP you are taking no risks about whether the riders will like or understand the characters and concept you have created, since you didn't create them, and you are guaranteed that people will come to your park to ride it. No creative risks, guaranteed popularity...

In theory yes. But this incident was two years ago and there has already been a decided response - it resulted in demolition, shortcuts and no risks being taken at all, and it hasn't finished yet. But at least there were significant steps in the right direction as well, thanks to a number of good people out there. It's a bit strange this news story really, as a lot has changed within the park and its operations since then. So it's unfortunate that a lot of people are probably now thinking the park is unsafe, systematically failing to record its H&S procedures, and the rest, when its now probably 'safer' than ever.

The team behind the concept for Mystery of Hocus Pocus are no longer at Chessington unfortunately, so a Tomb revamp is now unlikely to feature those characters. Interestingly there was a similar 'good' character planned for Tomb in 94, alongside a gang of tomb robbers. This was revised when the ride was made more horror-based and became the Terror Tomb plan that was eventually built, and the characters reduced to just the scoundrel Abdab. Ooh, secrets from the past! I should keep quiet.

These and the Dragon River photos are all from the archive boards they put out for Science Week weren't they? Thanks for displaying them now, I hadn't visited at the time.

They'll tell you everything and more on your HR induction if you pass the interview (you'll be there te whole day). There's also a separate department induction. I PMd you.

My advice would be to trust in your idea and have ambition with whatever your projects are, as some people will continually doubt you. As is the way with things, not just theme parks or media projects! Altitude your comment was plainly somewhat cynical and you have called me pretentious with regards to my views on dark rides in the past, so I was simply pointing out that your comments were unnecesary as, yes, of course people can cover whatever topic they like.

A little film that has cost me over £1000 so far and has taken years of research and has taken me around the country to discover treasure troves of history not seen for decades, and has reunited the original creators of the attractions who have not seen each other for years... But thank you for your optimism.

They have sensors to detect water level but I suppose it could be a visual guideline too. The channel was all one colour before 2006 I think.

The colour of the track is nothing to do with H&S regulations, just poor taste in colour scheme!

Squash court gag has been working for years

I did ask John shortly after that question if he knew anything about the 2016 dark ride and he said hadn't heard of it. Interesting, it can't have been in the pipeline for so long then. Yes, I'm quite sure this will be an IP based ride, which is unfortunate in many ways but sort of inevitable in getting dark rides back off the ground. Grumble.

Yes Graham composed the music for Black Forest Chateau and I'm sure he still has it, but it hadn't been heard since the show was removed.

It does look a bit funfairy with those colours but the paint scheme was all Islamic patterns, fitting with the Arabic style of Rameses' part of the Forbidden Kingdom. I think it was a much better brand before with that old logo and colour freshness but whatever. Forbidden Kingdom needs to restore its paintwork fast! Look at how funky those buildings were back in the day.

Where do I mention a roof in the first place, let alone suggest you can judge the whole experience from the queue alone? I get as far as quoting "covered queue line" from the planning docs and explain my reasoning for the queue being an awful design. I'm judging this on a bigger picture than just the plans, whether I'm right or wrong. The point I'm making is all about the use of space. You can make use of the tiniest amount of space and do a better job, with the right outlook and tools. They could have redeveloped the entire surrounding area, much like was originally rumoured in fact, but have chosen to stay stuck with the awkward Arena footprint simply as the cheapest option. Let's try something more positive... Hey, it might be good inside if they get the right expertise involved and are willing to pay LOTS of money. You can even create surprisingly fun theatrics just with a good old fashioned dark room and some flashing lights. Well you know what I mean. Has potential.

I know where you're coming from but you started off singling out the fact that the queue had a roof and now you're saying you've been talking about the bigger picture all along. It's easy to say "don't judge until the finished product" (Merlin's products are famously never finished anyway) but I'm judging it on purpose so that hopefully something will change. Yes that is a bit pretentious sounding, which I'm sorry about. But perhaps I do have reason to say that. People spend so much time and energy on these projects and the way the industry works these days is often very restrictive. I hope this time it is a success story for everyone involved, unlike a lot of recent projects, because it will show in the finished ride.

There's a bottomless pit because... It's a bottomless pit! Ho ho No other reason really. Just a fun effect.

Completely untrue, I am satisfied with even the most dumb and ridiculous dark rides. Anything that has even an ounce of character or personality behind it I find so enjoyable. You've taken the 'him and me' approach with the points I've made, shame because I've already written I hate to dampen people's spirits about a new project and I'm only more 'well informed' because I've dedicated so much time to researching and being a part of themed entertainment because it's my passion. Not because I'm arrogant, because I care about the enjoyment of guests. I could go on about all the other reasons why I'm critical of this project. I'd have thought the terrible block of queue is the most obvious flaw shown on the plans alone, but to save splattering the forum with depressing negativity and arguing, I'm certainly not going to. Anyway, like I say, in two years please prove me wrong Thorpe Park.

Queuelines in Britain are a totally overlooked but crucial point in the ride experience. They are actually quite hard to get right and require a lot of technical and imaginative thinking. That sounds utterly ridiculous - what could be more boring than a queue, right? But it's true and makes a huge impact on the experience, sometimes without the riders even knowing. When theme parks first came to Britain the queuelines were directly inspired by the detailed film sets that the designers had worked on previously. Without going into depth about the world of set design and stuff, this meant there were very elaborate and progressive queues for even the simplest of rides. Runaway Train's original queue is the strangest and best example, totally unnecessary in hindsight and very impractical to maintain, but cleverly designed. Almost every queue for a Tussauds ride constructed in the 90s was designed to show off the ride or surrounding areas in some way. Views and tricks of perspective don't happen by accident, every pathway and viewpoint is engineered on purpose. But years later, now that the entire industry in Britain is now much bigger and more expensive, Merlin do silly billy things like not even surface a queueline until the day of opening (Thirteen) or create impossible-to-correct situations like The Smiler's shockingly overlooked labyrinth of hell. Anyway, I could go on forever. Any experienced architect/planner would find a better way of using the SPACE around the show building and queue area much better, but clearly compromises have already been taken to spend as little money redeveloping this space as possible. Shortcuts, and the ride hasn't even started construction yet! I think you've completely misinterpreted my sentence? I'm not even talking about the roof. I'm very sorry to sound cynical and dump this negativity on what should be an exciting project. Perhaps I shouldn't have posted all that, as actually I want this story to be a success. However as I say it's my enthusiasm for dark rides, experience working with rides and the dark ride industry in Britain that leads me to believe this won't be a positive project.

And that sounds better to you? Shock: I will be judging this ride right now a whole two years before it opens, because I'm familiar with the industry, am studying architecture design and I'm stubborn like that.

Having looked properly at the plans I'm very critical of this dark ride project. Britain grew an astonishing dark ride/themed attraction industry all by itself in the 80s/early 90s, it's a shame the current generation hasn't retained the innovation, genius and will to entertain as those before. I think it is sad how they are making more mistakes than those learnt by Tussauds back in 1987 when the first major dark ride opened in Britain. Except, unlike 5th Dimension, the few thematic details shown on the plans suggest this project has little originality or flare. Merlin - the public don't find grotty buildings entertaining! They don't! The area of the park in which the show building is being created needs a total redevelopment in terms of architecture and landscaping. It's ugly, closed off and, together with the badly located X building, creates an illogical path around to the back of the park. Nemesis Inferno's drop are is the only open space with a good atmosphere because Phantom Fantasia/Magic Mill happened to burn down, otherwise that whole section of the park would still feel dated and cramped. Yet, instead of sorting this area out by reworking the entire flow of people through the surroundings, the new dark ride will be restricted to the current arena footprint with no change to surroundings. The cheapest option they could have taken. Years ago the designers would be clever and use forced perspective and facade systems to melt a huge show building into the surroundings. There is no way this building's ugly metal walls can be hidden. This is not necessarily a detrimental thing but the awkward shape causes a disruption to the flow of people; if it's going to be an obstacle it ought to look good. I can't help but giggle at the 'covered queue line' shoved round the back and disguised by some bushes. Merlin have learnt nothing from the Smiler just 2 years back, let alone the flaws of the 5th Dimension 30 years ago, when it comes to making guests uncomfortable and with the wrong expectations for the ride. The queue is a crucial point of a dark ride, especially the first major one in a decade, in selling the experience to visitors. I won't be surprised if people come off this ride with completely the wrong impression of what a dark ride is, disappointed, even if the ride inside is decent. Because it looks to be set up catastrophically. I have spent ages hands-on researching dark rides in Britain, have got to know the original designers of very influential projects and hopefully got into the mindset of what makes a dark ride concept really effective. It's very timely that Merlin Studios should be creating a dark ride project and I've heard it's been coming for a while, although very little existing industry expertise is being used. This should be a great turning point for UK theme parks, but unfortunately I believe this will be no fun for either the designers or the riders. Please prove me wrong.

Actually a really good decision. Penguin Cove is a great little attraction but nobody knows it's there because the entrance is so poorly placed and from the outside it just seems like a smelly pile of rocks!

"Less guests will enter the queue meaning staff can relax and be lazier with operations" This just means you don't realise how rides are operated Of course some guests buy fastrack impulsively as soon as the advertised queue time goes over 10 minutes.

I don't think anybody has cared about Canada Creek or Calypso Quay as "themes" for years.. Not much of a loss really because they were both cheap recyclings of even older themes and infrastructure, much of which had been ruined years ago. If anything Thorpe Park are trying to obliterate their entire past so far and rapidly modernise in a totally new way. And for that reason, as nostalgic as I get about Miss Hippos and the good old days of Thorpe Park, strangely I'm all up for that extremely tired section of the park to be totally demolished and redesigned. Big expensive Dr Who ride slapped in the middle of Thorpe Park? Sure, why not?

Choose an early interview so that they are not looking for specific availability. Tell the interviewer your availability when you fill in the availability sheet and it should be ok. Lots of people do just Saturdays and holidays but you won't be able to choose your days as such and have to work a certain amount a week, as is the law now