Matt N

I know this is going to sound slightly random, but I have a question to those who’ve ridden Sky Lion this year in terms of their thoughts on the ride, if you don’t mind me asking. Warning: Minor spoilers for those who haven’t ridden. Is it only me who felt that the ride could have used a bit of feedback to what was happening on screen through the use of physical effects? For instance, I’m talking about things like it squirting you with water when you travel through water on the film, or blasting some hot air at you when you travel through the hotter environment. Personally, I did feel like some of this would improve the ride, and my parents both agreed with me; it was one of the first things they said to me when we got off. We all expressed feelings that there were points where we were expecting a water squirt or whatever and it didn’t come. Don’t get me wrong, I thought Sky Lion was a great dark ride (one of my favourites in the UK) that’s really fun to ride, and I overall thought they did a great job with it! That is literally the most picky of flaws I could find in it, but it was something I did personally notice. Spoilers ending Does anyone else think this? Or am I literally the most petty reviewer ever?

Most interestingly, Merlin is now lobbying for the London Resort application to be withdrawn, as the developers have demonstrated “no tangible progress” in their eyes: https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https://riderater.co.uk/9543/merlin-calls-for-withdrawal-of-london-resort-plans/&h=AT3eBNkY3S5WaNCU0eZHzFAQjQoxQim2zJqQZvPKyriSNm9kvksbrO2CS8rLs_-r_vAlBNRLLH21oUoOfx_16VbKSaDcmHCbcuS9K8qL_gZ0VFyUq-9M9TczYIk8ciA&s=1 Merlin invites the developers to resubmit an “application-ready” planning application “in due course”.

Hi guys. As technology advances, screens are growing ever more present within dark rides. Initially, it was Universal and Disney who pioneered the use of screens on rides, but regional parks eventually cottoned on, and most new dark rides built nowadays have some form of screen within them. However, screens are somewhat of a contentious topic among enthusiasts, with many complaining that their use has killed creativity within dark rides. So my question to you today is; how do you feel about screens on dark rides? Do you hate them? Do you not mind them? Do you like them? Or are you undecided? Or does it depend on the context? Personally, I don't mind screens at all. In fact, when fused with physical theming as part of a more varied ride experience, I really like them, and I do think they can add a certain something to a ride when used well! Now I don't rank dark rides to any huge extent, but if I did, I'd say that a big percentage of my top dark rides use screens to at least a certain extent. To be honest, off the top of my head, I'd probably say my top 5 dark rides are Tower of Terror, Gringotts, Spider-Man, Transformers and Forbidden Journey, in that order. 4 of those 5 use screens to at least some extent, and 3 of those 5 are quite heavily 3D-based, although they do have a lot of physical set pieces and effects as well. I love a traditional dark ride with physical sets & animatronics as much as the next person, but to be honest, I do think that the 3D element does add a certain level of dynamicness to those rides that I really like! However, I do think that for me to really love a screen-based dark ride and rank it in that top tier, it's got to be a tracked ride system of some form that fuses both screens and physical theming; I don't think a ride that is literally just a screen and nothing else (I'm thinking of things like Simpsons, Star Tours, Sky Lion, and Flight of Passage amongst others here) is really something that would be able to rank in my top tier of dark rides, as much as I do really enjoy some rides of that type. I personally prefer the tracked ride systems that have a bit of physical theming in there alongside the screens, and they're the screen rides that rank among my top dark rides. So basically, I'd actually say that I like screens on dark rides on the whole! Don't get me wrong, I love a good physically themed dark ride with physical sets and animatronics as much as the next person, and a dark ride certainly doesn't need screens for me to like it, but I don't personally identify with the hate towards screen technology that some harbour; I do think screens can really add something to a ride when used well! But what's your opinion on the contentious topic of screens?

Personally, I wouldn't be at all surprised if we see Colossus go before the end of the 2020s, and I'll be stunned if it's not the first of the big thrill coasters to go. It's not an especially popular ride (among enthusiasts, at very least, and none of my family especially like it), it's lost its original USP even within the UK, it takes up a not insignificant amount of land within a park that will soon be tight on space for new rides, and correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't subsidence causing issues with the ride's footers? However, I would counter that by saying that I don't think coasters necessarily have a set lifespan. For every ride getting removed at 30 years old, there's a similarly specced ride still hanging in there for decades afterwards, and I don't think that a ride hitting a certain age is necessarily an indicator that "[x ride] is due for removal or retracking". I think it's more nuanced than that, personally.

Hi guys. Europa Park and Phantasialand are Germany’s biggest, and arguably most revered, theme parks, and both of them get a high amount of praise from enthusiasts. But I’d be intrigued to know; which of the two do you personally prefer? I’ve visited neither, although I am rectifying that in April with my first visit to Europa Park, which I’m very excited about! But which park do you prefer? A similar thread done on another forum I’m on is currently seeing Phantasialand emerge victorious, but I’m intrigued to see how things play out on here!

I’ve done 2 Madhouses, but I hope to possibly be doing 2 more at some point in 2022 (Fluch der Kassandra at Europa and Haunting at Drayton Manor). I’d rank the ones I’ve currently done as follows: Hex - Alton Towers: Yes, I rank this first just like everyone else does, but possibly not by quite the same margin. With that being said, however, I do absolutely love Hex; it’s easily my favourite non-coaster at Towers, and it might be my favourite UK dark ride (it’s a toss up between Hex, Sky Lion and Ninjago for me)! I think the way they used the Towers Ruins was a true stroke of genius, and one of the finest examples I’ve done of “simple but effective” ambience building, in my opinion; the whole thing has a rather eerie, ambient tone to it that I think is wonderfully done! The story is also very well explained, it’s immersive, and I think it has a rather wonderful sense of drama and spectacle throughout! Overall, I think Hex is a stunning dark ride, and definitely a worthy contender for #1 in this list! Haunted House Monster Party - Legoland Windsor - While I don’t personally rank this quite as highly as Hex, I still think it’s a really strong dark ride! I’m also not sure that comparing it to Hex is entirely fair as it’s a totally different type of experience with different strengths; while Hex hones in on drama and raw ambience, Haunted House Monster Party has a rather endearing sense of fun and whimsy about it that does put a smile on my face! And there’s many things I do like about it; the story is fairly well communicated, the room itself is used very well (I particularly liked the disco lighting that was going off while the ride was going round, the screens on either end and the projections on the bottom at the end of the ride), and I absolutely love the soundtrack! I also think it’s a rather original and fun take on the spooky theme, which I really like! Overall, while it’s not quite Hex for me, I did really like HHMP, and it’s definitely worth a ride if you’re ever at Legoland Windsor!

According to Jack Silkstone's latest closed season update from Thorpe Park, stuff is now happening in Old Town: The things that have happened include: Lumber Jump has disappeared, and Timber Tug Boat may possibly have gone as well. Fences have gone up and minor work is beginning around where Creek Freak Massacre was located. Deconstruction work on Platform 15 has commenced. Slammer is currently still intact, and Rocky Express' theming also remains intact at present, but the status of the hardware itself is unknown.

Interestingly, Alton Towers have today submitted a planning application "seeking to confirm the lawfulness of maintenance works to the "Nemesis" ride, an existing roller coaster at Alton Towers Resort", according to TowersTimes: https://www.facebook.com/towerstimes/posts/10159970979863185 Could this be for, or at least relating to, the heavily rumoured Nemesis retrack? And if it is, could it be for the ride's upcoming 30th anniversary in 2024, perhaps?

Out of interest, have we heard anything new about the new coaster as of late? Is it testing or anything yet? I find it really interesting how much it's flown under the radar given its significance; yes, it's a Colossus clone, but it's the tallest coaster built in the UK since Swarm 10 years ago, as well as the biggest ride at Flamingo Land (I think?), so it's pretty significant for the UK coaster scene in that regard! On a side note, Flamingo Land is going to have a pretty epic coaster collection by the time this opens... they're going to be joint with Towers & Blackpool for most coasters in the UK according to RCDB, and they're going to have 5 thrill coasters! That's nothing to be sniffed at, in my view... it must surely put them in contention for having one of the strongest coaster lineups in Britain, possibly even one of the strongest in Europe?

Promisingly, Lightwater Valley was singled out by Brighton Pier Group as having performed “ahead of expectations” in 2021: https://riderater.co.uk/9522/lightwater-valley-ahead-of-expectations/ No specific figures were given, but the group singled out Lightwater Valley as a star performer in their recent results reveal, where the group also revealed that their total sales were expected to be £22.7million, which is up by 177% on the same period in 2020 and even up 31% compared to pre-COVID levels in 2019. Promising stuff, no? While it may not be the future that some desire, I do think Lightwater could have a promising future ahead of it within the next few years as they forge their new path of appealing to the under-10s!

Hi guys. You may remember the other day that I created a thread about parks you like more than most and parks you like less than most, and as a follow-up to that one, I thought it might also be fun to tackle that topic from the perspective of roller coasters; so, what are some roller coasters you like more than most and roller coasters you like less than most? I’ll get the ball rolling with some of my choices for each category… I could pull up quite a few nominees in both categories for this, but to keep it fairly short, I’ll stick to 5 coasters for each category. Coasters you like more than most Wicker Man, Alton Towers - To most, this is seemingly an average, disappointing woodie that doesn’t live up to the cross valley plans. For me, though? My favourite ride at Alton Towers, my favourite UK and favourite all-time woodie (I can sense some controversy there… more on this below), and one of the most fun coasters I’ve ever ridden! Yes, it might not be the most intense coaster on the planet, but I think Wicker Man delivers a lot, personally; it’s fast paced from start to finish, it has really fun twists and turns, it has really comfortable trains, it’s fairly smooth in wooden coaster terms, it’s developed some surprisingly excellent airtime in recent years, particularly towards the back, and overall, in spite of most seemingly finding it a poor woodie, I think it’s the pure pinnacle of fun, and a coaster I could literally sit on all day without getting bored or feeling any unwanted side effects! Icon, Blackpool Pleasure Beach - The second of the 2018 UK duo also makes it in here for me! Icon is a ride that seems to have few strong fans, and many who are apathetic towards it, but one that I personally have a lot of love for! Yes, it isn’t the most intense ride on earth. Yes, the launches aren’t the strongest. However, it is the UK ride that puts the biggest grin on my face! There’s a huge number of things I like about Icon; there’s a plethora of excellent airtime moments, including some that really surprise you, the ride always feels fairly exciting (even if it’s not the fastest in sections), the trains are gorgeous, the inversions are lovely, the twists and turns are profiled to perfection, it’s really smooth, and overall, I find Icon a hugely fun coaster that puts a huge smile on my face every time! In spite of many people’s general antipathy towards it, Icon is my favourite UK coaster, and my #2 coaster of all time behind only Mako at SeaWorld Orlando! Rita, Alton Towers - Another Alton Towers staple, and I’ll admit that this is one I would never have included in a million years a few years back, but since getting back on it for the first time in 4.5 years back in 2020, all of my recent rides on Rita (4 separate rides across 3 separate visits) have been really quite excellent, with no real roughness issues, brutality, sore ears or headaches at all; even the worst recent ride I had only had a mild bit of bumpiness to it! My September 2021 rides in particular were really fab! I got my first front row ride, which was really quite smooth, and even my back row ride straight after only had a very mild rattle to it, which while it did make it marginally less smooth than the front row ride, was barely noticeable whatsoever; I’ve had rougher rides on Nemesis! And even notwithstanding anything to do with Rita’s smoothness; man, it’s really been putting a smile on my face lately! That launch, while not quite there on Stealth’s, admittedly, is still a rush like no other, and I actually think the ride doesn’t have a bad layout after the launch; I’ve experienced some legitimately brilliant pops of ejector on Rita, and although the drawn-out turns aren’t the most inspired, admittedly, and do partly hold it back from ranking higher for me, I think the euphoria of the launch and the airtime pops are enough to make it a really enjoyable ride that I certainly enjoy more than most! Overall, I like Rita a lot; I often feel quite sorry for it, what with how it’s seemingly become the unloved stepchild of Alton Towers’ coaster collection! And perhaps controversially, in spite of the two rides’ reputations, I notably prefer it to Stealth (more on that later…)… Rock’n’Rollercoaster, Disney’s Hollywood Studios - Even though most enthusiasts seemingly view this as pretty middle-of-the-road to poor, I’d had this ride hyped up to me a fair amount by my dad and sister prior to riding (they’d done the Paris version many years before and absolutely loved it to bits), and while I perhaps didn’t revere it quite as highly as they did, I must admit that unlike most enthusiasts, I most certainly see where my family were coming from on this one, as I thought Rock’n’Rollercoaster was certainly a pretty rockin’ ride (pun intended) myself! For starters, the launch felt really intense for an LSM launch; had I not known any better, I’d have presumed it to be hydraulic, and it’s easily up there as one of the most intense-feeling launches, if not the most intense-feeling launch, I’ve ever experienced! Also, I thought that the ride seemingly hurtled through the layout at fair pace, packing a thrill around every corner; those inversions and turns felt awesome! And while it had a bit of a rattle which took away ever so slightly, I didn’t think it was overly rough at all (although sitting in the front row may have helped with that)! Overall, I’ll admit that I liked Rock’n’Rollercoaster a lot; certainly more than most seem to, anyway, and it’s controversially my favourite Disney World coaster (more on that later…)! Hollywood Rip Ride Rockit, Universal Studios Florida - Most seem to think of this as complete and utter rubbish, but based on my most recent rides in 2016 (admittedly 5.5 years ago now, so my opinion may change when I reride)… I didn’t dislike it at all! Yes, it’s not one of my all-time favourite coasters as it was when I first rode in 2014 (on my first ride, HRRR really blew me away, becoming my then favourite coaster in Florida and 2nd favourite coaster of all time behind Swarm!), nor do I regard it quite as highly as some of the others I’ve mentioned in this category, but I like it, and I hold it as a solid top 25 (out of 79) and 7/10 coaster! I think the ride seems to pack a tangible sense of speed and exhilaration throughout, and I seem to remember the non-inverted loop being a really excellent ejector airtime moment, with a couple of other (admittedly notably weaker) airtime moments sprinkled within the layout too! I also don’t remember it being particularly rough, in spite of its reputation; it rattled a little, but I don’t remember it feeling overpoweringly rough by any stretch, and I have a fairly low roughness tolerance. I’ve certainly ridden many rougher coasters than HRRR, from memory! I’ll admit that HRRR perhaps doesn’t have the most interesting or eventful of layouts past the first element, and I would rank it a little more highly if it were less rattly, but on the whole, I remember quite liking it, and I certainly seem to enjoy it a lot more than most based on all the trash talk directed towards it! Coasters you like less than most Nemesis, Alton Towers - Starting with a big, controversial one! Don’t get me wrong, I like Nemesis a lot, and I fully understand why it’s so coveted and iconic to so many people, but I don’t place it on the same godly pedestal that most enthusiasts seem to; it’s not my favourite UK coaster, and perhaps controversially, I (narrowly) prefer Nemesis Inferno. I think it’s more down to it not really being my absolute favourite type of ride more than anything else. Stealth, Thorpe Park - Another big, controversial UK choice! I used to love this coaster, and don’t get me wrong, there’s a lot to like (the launch is sensational, the top hat airtime is excellent, and even the bunny hill into the brakes can really deliver sometimes), but my last few rides on it have been really quite bumpy, and had me coming off of it with a bit of a headache (although it’s not unbearably rough by any means; certainly smoother than Colossus). I also find the restraints dig in quite a bit by the end of the ride. As I implied above, I’ve been finding Rita noticeably smoother and more enjoyable than Stealth as of late, and I’ll admit I find it surprising that Rita has the reputation as the “rough” Intamin Accelerator in the UK! In terms of Stealth; most covet it as their favourite Thorpe coaster and among their favourites in the UK, but I’d genuinely say it’s 4th out of the big 5 at Thorpe for me based on my last visit, purely due to the increased roughness and headache factor (it’s below Inferno, Swarm and Saw, in case you’re wondering) Megafobia, Oakwood - Don’t get me wrong, I’ve had some enjoyable rides on Megafobia, but like Nemesis, I don’t personally place it on anywhere near the same pedestal as I know many do. For many, I know that this is easily their favourite UK woodie, one of their favourite UK coasters, and one of their favourite woodies of all time, but I don’t personally hold it in that regard. My favourite row is the front, and up there, it does have some fun airtime pops, but I’ve honestly felt like Wicker Man’s have been feeling stronger lately, and that ride also has really consistent fast pacing, fun transitions, and a consistently fairly smooth ride experience, which Megafobia lacks. While Wicker Man blitzes through the layout, Megafobia feels like it has numerous dead spots throughout, and notably loses pace towards the end. I also find Megafobia pretty temperamental; on my last Oakwood visit in 2019, I had 4 rides, with 2 in the front, 1 in the middle, and 1 on the back, and the ride experience wildly varied dependant on what seat I sat in. In the front, there were some fun airtime pops and the ride wasn’t especially rough (although still perhaps a touch rickety for me to fully rate it in places); this was my favourite seat. In the middle, the ride was still not particularly rough, but just felt profoundly average, and didn’t really have much of anything sensations-wise. In the back, it had 1 or 2 more intense pops of airtime (the first drop and drop out of the turnaround in the back are some of the strongest airtime pops I’ve yet experienced), but the back was actually my least favourite row, because I found it a bit too rough for me to enjoy; to paraphrase Fawlty Towers, back row Megafobia “[gave me] a damn good thrashing”, and the roughness was considerably more overpowering in the back than in the front and middle to an extent that I didn’t expect. Overall, I don’t dislike Megafobia by any means, but I don’t personally hold it on the same pedestal among woodies as most do; of the 7 woodies I’ve done, it places 3rd for me, and a notable peg below the top 2. Controversially, Wicker Man reigns supreme among UK woodies for me by a considerable distance, even when excluding the theming! Expedition Everest, Disney’s Animal Kingdom - A lot of people absolutely love this, and while I do enjoy it every time I ride it, don’t get me wrong, I don’t seem to like it to the same extent as most, and it never fails to leave me feeling slightly cold and underwhelmed for reasons I can’t quite put my finger on. I’ll admit that I’ve always found the long wait for the switch track to move itself on Everest to kill the mood slightly (I personally think that Thirteen executes the backwards trick far more slickly, and I dare say that ROTM at Universal does too), and for such a long ride, I do think the actual “proper coasting” section feels surprisingly short and lacking in dynamic manoeuvres compared to even other Disney coasters, but those are extremely harsh criticisms on my part, as Everest is a Disney coaster aimed at families after all, and a Disney coaster built before switch track technology was commonplace, at that. Don’t get me wrong, Everest is a fun family coaster that I enjoy, and has spectacular theming and cool tricks, but something about it always leaves me slightly underwhelmed, and I can’t quite place what. Olympia Looping, Travelling - I’d heard a hell of a lot of hype for Olympia prior to riding, so that may have killed it slightly for me, but I’ll admit that I was pretty underwhelmed when I finally rode it at Hyde Park Winter Wonderland in January 2020. I won’t deny that the ride is an absolute masterpiece when you take into account its travelling status, and I feel honoured to have ridden such an influential piece of coaster history, but even though I was hoping for something that would rank pretty highly (it was almost my sole reason for visiting HPWW), it wasn’t really my cup of tea at all. I won’t deny that the ride lived up to its billed intensity, but it provided this in a very different way to what I was anticipating; it didn’t make me black out or even grey out, but it was a very weird, dizzying kind of intensity that’s difficult to describe. It wasn’t particularly enjoyable at all for me, and I felt quite nauseous and dizzy getting off. The second main con was the trains/restraints, which I wasn’t personally keen on at all. The trains are very tight legroom-wise (even for me, who isn’t especially tall at 5’9.5”), and the shoulder bars really dug in during the ride to a pretty painful extent; on my second ride, I was wincing in pain going around due to how much the shoulder bars were digging in. Overall, I get why people like Olympia, and I fully appreciate its iconic status and history, but it didn’t live up to the hype for me; when combining the weird, nauseating intensity and the painful shoulder bars, it’s not a coaster I’m especially keen on at all from a ride experience perspective. I just don’t think it’s really my kind of ride. But what are some coasters that you like more than most and less than most? As ever with this type of thread, I apologise if there’s anything controversial in my list, and if you need anything clarifying, don’t be afraid to ask!

Hi guys. Often, parks will have a large-scale consensus opinion that most enthusiasts seem to have about them, and in many cases, you might conform to that opinion. However, there might sometimes be cases where you think differently to the hive mentality. For instance, there might be that highly rated park you don't get the hype for, or that panned park that you don't get the hate for. So my question to you today is; what are some parks you like more than most and parks you like less than most? I'll get the ball rolling with my answers: Parks I like more than most Thorpe Park - Thorpe Park is the unloved step-child of the major UK parks, and it's almost become a dirty word for most UK enthusiasts; most seem to talk about the park like it's the spawn of satan, and have absolutely nothing good to say about it. However... I've got a real soft spot for it, and I've personally never understood the hate! The park has a really excellent coaster lineup, and I also think the park has a fair amount of filler, as well as some really great theming in places! Areas like Amity Cove and Swarm Island amongst others are actually really detailed and atmospheric, in my opinion, and I think the park is actually pretty well landscaped in others! I also find something quite magical about the park's whole "island" setting and vibe; I know it seems very minor, but I've always really liked the bridge at Thorpe as a feature, where you cross over to the Dome and see all the coasters laid out ahead of you. It almost feels like you're entering a separate world, which I love; it provides a very pure sensation of escapism, and surely that's what theme parks are all about providing? Overall, though, I really do like Thorpe Park a lot; it's not quite there on Alton Towers for me, but I think it's a pretty nice park in its own right, personally! Oakwood Theme Park - A lot of people despise Oakwood, but I'll admit that I've really liked it on both of my visits; I think it's a really charming little park, with a nice forest setting and a very warm feeling about it throughout! I can't quite put my finger on what causes that warm feeling for me, but the place definitely seems to have a certain charm about it! And for a smaller park, I do think the ride selection is decent; while I don't rate Megafobia as highly as most, I do think it's a fun wooden coaster, particularly in the front row (although I won't deny that the first drop in the back is absolutely phenomenal), and while Speed isn't my personal cup of tea, I'll admit that it's a very impressive ride for the park with some great elements; that airtime hill is spectacular! Between Speed's hill and Megafobia's back row first drop, Oakwood may well have my two favourite individual airtime moments in Britain, which for a park of its size is really quite remarkable! As well as that, you also have a really fun family coaster in Treetops and some other nice bits of filler! Overall, while Oakwood isn't the largest or most expansive park, I've always had a good time there; it's certainly a hidden gem that I like more than most, and a nice little place to spend a few hours, in my opinion! Epcot - Now I wasn't sure whether to include this one, as I know it does have its fans and seems somewhat polarising, however I'll include it due to raw surprise value and due to the fact that I know it does have its fair share of haters. I know that a fair few people don't particularly like this park at all, and in films and TV shows, it often gets mocked as the "dull and boring" Disney park that noone wants to visit, and I'll admit that before my visit, I was unsure if the park would be my cup of tea. There didn't look to be much in the way of appealing ride hardware on the face of it, and sections of it are often dismissed online as somewhat dated. However, to my surprise, this park really gelled with me, and it actually ended up being one of my highlights of our 2019 trip to Disney World! Yes, I'll admit that Future World, although I admire the concept, wasn't my favourite, and did feel a little bit dated as the park's critics point out, but the whole park had a really relaxed, pleasant vibe to it that I really liked, and World Showcase was a stunning enviroment that I absolutely loved, with gorgeous theming and lots of places to explore! The park's landscaping is also absolutely gorgeous, and every bit of it is decked out in vibrantly coloured flowers and plants (although visiting during the Flower & Garden Festival may admittedly have helped there). Admittedly, I do feel that the park lacks appealing ride hardware, however that's not to say that the park doesn't have some great attractions; I loved Test Track, I surprisingly really liked Frozen Ever After, and of course, the likes of Ratatouille and Guardians will have made the park more appealing in this regard by the time I next get round to visiting! Overall, while I'll admit I was unsure if Epcot would be my thing prior to visiting, and was thinking I might be more of an Epcot sceptic, I had a thoroughly enjoyable time there, and I certainly consider myself among the Epcot lovers, personally! Parks I like less than most Disney’s Magic Kingdom - Surprisingly, it took me until my 4th Florida visit to actually visit Magic Kingdom, and by this point, I’d heard a lot of very superlative reviews of it. I’d seen it ranked up there with the likes of Europa Park as one of people’s all-time favourite parks, and it’s many people’s favourite park in Florida, so while I was on team Universal prior to my visit to MK (based on previous experience of Animal Kingdom), I did wonder if MK might sway me onto preferring Disney parks. When I finally went in April 2019, I was super excited… and while MK was nice, don’t get me wrong, I was somewhat underwhelmed. There were some good rides there, but nothing I really loved, personally, and me and my family all thought that the park seemed more aimed at the younger audience than our age group. While I can imagine the park would be amazing with young children, I’ll admit that as a 16 year old (at the time) enthusiast, I was personally a little underwhelmed after all the hype I’d heard. Busch Gardens Tampa - I do wonder if I’d like this more if I went back, and at the time, I very much wanted to like it, but something about BGT didn’t quite resonate with me the way I’d hoped, and I can’t quite put my finger on what. On paper, it has a lot to like; a great coaster lineup, reasonable theming, good landscaping. However, I wasn’t falling in love with it after one visit like many seem to for a reason I can’t quite pinpoint. Maybe it was because my family all hated it, maybe it’s because I didn’t spend too much time there, I don’t know. This is based off of one visit back in 2016, so I would like to give this one a revisit and see if I like it more, particularly with the additions made since then, but for now, it doesn’t rank as highly for me as I’d perhaps hoped it would prior to my visit. But what are some parks that you like more than most and parks that you like less than most?

Sorry to bump the thread, but if you’re nostalgic for the Thorpe Park Rangers, I recently discovered that the National Diving & Activity Centre near Chepstow, an attraction less than 10 minutes from where I live, actually integrated many of the former life-size Thorpe Park Rangers statues into a diving experience at the attraction: This might be one for you to visit if you miss the Thorpe Park Rangers and are into diving!

I had a rather interesting thought about Exodus. With Exodus having some rather big, impressive-looking inversions within it as its primary elements (including what many are saying will be the world’s tallest inversion, although I’ll admit I’m unsure on that one given that that record currently sits at 197ft; I’d certainly nominate it for the UK’s or even Europe’s tallest inversion, though), as well as being a more traditional sit-down coaster in style (unlike, say, Saw with its beyond vertical drop and more compact cars), could they potentially have built it to fill the niche of big multi-looper that Colossus currently occupies as well as to break the UK height record, as opposed to the airtime coaster niche that hypers more traditionally fill? I know that Colossus would have the 10 inversions as a substantial boost over Exodus, so it’d still be far from redundant by any means (the most I can see Exodus having is 3, by the looks of things), but now that the ride’s key selling point of the world inversion record has long since been beaten over at Alton Towers (and a newer version of the same layout is being built at Flamingo Land), could the park be psyching Exodus up to replace it as the park’s “big, impressive inversion coaster”? It’ll be a much bigger, more dominant ride than Colossus is at present, with some much larger inversions, and although we obviously can’t judge yet, it looks like it’ll satisfy the demands of the modern market more than Colossus does at present (for instance, less restrictive restraints and greater negative g’s; even if there’s no straight airtime hills on Exodus like Colossus’ bunny hill, I do think some of those elements have a fair shout at working negative g’s into them, whereas I stayed firmly in my seat for the entire ride last time I rode Colossus, even over the aforementioned bunny hill… not a scrap of airtime to be found anywhere, unfortunately). So seeing as Colossus doesn’t seem to be an overly loved ride from what I can gather (while I won’t deny it has its fans, it doesn’t really seem to have a huge fan following, and not too many like it a huge amount), as well as that it’s Thorpe’s oldest thrill coaster and it has been usurped at its original purpose even within the UK, my question is; could Exodus have been built to fill its niche in 2024 so that they can remove Colossus in preparation for their next coaster in the late 2020s or so? Let’s say this hypothetical coaster comes in 2028, 4 years after Exodus; that would likely see Colossus removed at the end of 2026, by which point it’ll be 24 years old. That isn’t overly young for a coaster by any stretch… What do you guys think?

Does this mean that the theme will be an apocalypse theme or something?

Sorry to double post, but I've actually been having a look at Old Town on Google Street View, and that made me realise that even if they don't retheme Old Town when Exodus opens, it will totally change the dynamic of that entire section of the park to a far greater extent than I'd previously anticipated... currently, Saw & Colossus absolutely tower over the section where Exodus is going, and Exodus will be more than twice the size of either...heck, every element before the splashdown is taller than the highest point on either! Looking at the concept images, you think it's just going to be another coaster on the skyline, but when you actually look at the area and visualise the ride there... this is going to look nothing short of absolutely monstrous, and I'll admit that does rather excite me! I know size isn't everything by any means, but it must be said that in my opinion, pure size does add something to a ride's presence!

On a side note, why is it that everyone is expecting this to be incredibly intense, out of interest? I'll admit that the more I look at the layout, the more I'm not personally seeing it myself; don't get me wrong, I'm sure Exodus will be a great ride that'll be great fun and really well-received, I am excited for it, and I think it'll be a great addition, but I'm not sure that it'll be overly intense or an absolute airtime machine, personally. I know it's both tall in height and fairly short in ride duration as far as hyper coasters go, but a lot of the elements seem very high and drawn-out (all the big inversions/elements pre-splashdown didn't seem too far from the lift height based on the images I saw), which leads me to believe that a fair bit of momentum could be burned off negotiating them, and at those elements' highest points, there won't be a ton of speed, or at least, not blisteringly fast pacing. I remember reading the comments of the most recent (and often considered to be most accurate) NL2 recreation of the plans, and the only part of the ride pre-splashdown that the creator described as having "strong ejector" was the first drop; they described there being strong ejector on the first drop, moderate airtime exiting the immelmann, floater on the outerbank and hangtime in the dive loop. Admittedly, they did describe the outerbank and final hill after the splashdown as having "STUPID ejector" (I believe this is where the alleged -1.8G came from), but this was without any kind of trim or equivalent speed removing device; my personal suspicion is that the splashdown could be akin to Diamondback's or SheiKra's, where the ride scoops the water out of the lake and shaves some speed off the train. I'm sure you'll still get decent airtime there, but I don't think it'll be quite as strong as some are expecting. I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade here; I'm as excited as anyone to see this take shape, I think it could ride very well, and given the brief, site and budget, I'm not sure they could really have done any better! However, I'm not sure that I'm quite subscribing to the belief that it'll be obscenely intense or an absolute airtime machine from start to finish, personally. Don't get me wrong, it seems like it'll have a fair bit of airtime in places (more than most, possibly all, current UK coasters), but perhaps controversially, I don't think it looks to be an absolute airtime machine myself; other sensations look to take centre stage, with the airtime more being sprinkled in as a side dish. Or at very least, it doesn't look like a coaster designed solely with the purpose of delivering airtime in the same vein of many other hyper coasters. I'm not saying that's a bad thing by any means (it certainly makes the ride stand out compared to other hypers!), but that's just my personal take.

Great stuff; thanks so much for the insight @JoshC.!

Sorry to double post, but I’ve altered the topic title to something that is (hopefully) less confusing…

Hi guys. Disney and Universal are arguably the two biggest names in the theme park industry, and their brand of park is quite a different product to any others on Earth. While many parks seem to have the big coasters as their main selling point, the big 2 aim for a more holistic experience, with the coasters often being sidelined in favour of a greater emphasis on different elements, such as dark rides, shows, and immersive themed environments. As such, these premium parks often don’t tend to build especially extreme coasters, particularly in the case of Disney and particularly in more recent years. Don’t get me wrong, the big players have built thrill rides, but they often don’t tend to be absolute monsters like you’d find in other theme parks, and many of these thrill rides were built some time ago. However, a new for 2021 ride bucked this trend in quite a big way. Last year, VelociCoaster opened at Universal’s Islands of Adventure in Florida, and it has seemed to go down a real treat thus far. Guests are loving it, and from what I can tell, it packs the lavish theming and experience factors that you’d expect from a premium tier park. However, in a notable departure from other recent coasters built in Disney & Universal parks, it looks to be a pretty extreme ride from a hardware perspective too. It has the dynamic elements, high forces and fast pacing that many more traditional theme park rides have, and at 155ft tall and 70mph, it’s hardly an insignificant ride in terms of size! Guests seem to be loving it thus far, and having such an extreme ride arguably gives Universal a key advantage over Disney, and opens them up to a greater range of guests. So with that in mind, my question to you today is; do you think that VelociCoaster’s success will push Disney to build more thrilling rides in order to keep up? Personally, I’m undecided. I could see arguments for both sides of the coin; I see very valid reasons as to why Disney might be spurred to up the thrills a bit, but I can also see very valid arguments for them not bothering and sticking to what they’re doing now. In terms of why I could see them building more thrilling rides in response to VelociCoaster; even though Disney has gained a reputation among many for being the more family-friendly of the big 2, their previous record suggests that they are not as averse to building thrill rides as you might think. While they haven’t built any massive monsters, I’d argue that the likes of Rock’n’Rollercoaster prove that Disney are not averse to building coasters with elements like intense launches and inversions, and even recent Disney coasters like Guardians and Tron are hardly kiddie coasters; those two look like a notable step up from your Big Thunder Mountains and Seven Dwarfs Mine Trains, for sure. As such, Disney installing something a bit more thrilling to combat VelociCoaster isn’t out of the realms of possibility, in my opinion. On the flip side, however, Universal has always seemed a bit “edgier” than Disney (for lack of a better word), and has always seemed a fair amount more interested in the thrill seeker market than Disney has ever been. So with that in mind, one does have to wonder whether Disney would be interested in building more thrilling rides. Their current paradigm of mostly appealing to younger families is seemingly working very well for them, so why deviate from it? But what are your thoughts?

Hi guys. The new year is upon us (happy 2022, everybody!), and as the new year is ushered in, rides around the world are getting another year older. And to be truthful, the ages certain rides are hitting… scares me a little. The Smiler, a ride I remember riding in its opening year? 9 years old! The Swarm, a ride I remember feeling incredibly cutting edge and modern when I first rode it? Hitting double digits this year, at 10 years old! But that’s besides the point. The new year being upon us got me thinking; when I first got into theme parks, rides of certain ages seemed old, yet rides that are the same age now still seem pretty new to me. For instance, I remember that one of the first projects I discovered was the RMC conversion of Medusa at Six Flags Mexico, which was midway through construction when I first found out about it. Medusa was 13 years old when it closed, and at the time, I thought of 13 years old as pretty old, and it seemed as though many 13 year old rides simply weren’t living up to what’s popular today. But now? The rides that are currently 13 years old are rides that opened in 2009; I always think of 2009 rides as being fairly new! There are many rides of that sort of age range that are still ranking pretty highly, and even through the sphere of woodies, I can’t think of a single 2009 woodie that I would think of as being ripe for removal in the way Medusa was in 2013. As a wooden coaster case study, Troy at Toverland is turning 15 this year (2 years older than Medusa was when it shut) and is still one of the most highly regarded woodies in Europe; no one’s getting their chainsaws out to remove or RMC that one any time soon! I could think of tons of case studies to fit this argument. Gwazi was 16 years old when it was removed, and many thought its removal was a long time coming. But the wooden rides that are 16 years old now are things like Voyage and El Toro, which both still rank comfortably among the top woodies in the world in polls! Corkscrew at Alton Towers was 28 years old when it closed, and at the time, I gather that it was thought of as pretty terrible; rough and generally not very exciting. But now? The Alton Towers coaster hitting 28 in 2022 is the almighty Nemesis, a ride that most still love and consider among their favourite UK coasters, if not their favourite; I can sense that no one will be thrusting the bulldozer upon Nemesis any time soon, in spite of the fact that Corkscrew, which was in many ways equally iconic, met its end at the same age. And while I know Nemesis is a pretty unique case, I can think of similarly aged rides that are still really, really well liked in a similar way. Before I ramble too much, my point is; is innovation in quality slowing in the industry? Are rides seeming to age less quickly, and are they maintaining greater longevity? Or do you think that’s just my own perception? From my perspective, I do think innovation in quality seems to be slowing, as it seems like newer rides are staying highly rated and relevant for longer than the rides that came before them, and more rides that are now getting on a bit age-wise are still ranking really highly compared to a few years ago, but what are your thoughts?

Sorry to bump, but Drachen Spire has been cancelled, and BGW's 2023 project is now looking like it'll be an enclosed coaster replacing Curse of DarKastle. BGWFans has now done their expose on DarKoaster, as it's been coined, and it looks interesting! Here's the link to their site: https://bgwfans.com/2021/project-darkoaster/ If you don't want to read, the basic gist is: Intamin Family Launch Coaster based entirely within DarKastle's building. Physical track itself contains 2 launches and various twists and turns. However, the ride is made longer by a very interesting trick, that has never been done before on any coaster. When the ride hits the final brakes for the first time, a switch track will suddenly come into play and fire the train down an s-bend that connects it back up to the start of the ride. As such, the ride does two laps, and this is facilitated through Intamin's new rapid switch track technology. Here's a video mockup that BGWFans did in NoLimits: What do we think? I'll admit that I'm a touch surprised that they haven't incorporated any trick tracks (e.g. a drop track), but I think it looks like it could be a really cool ride! That double-lapping trick in particular is a phenomenal optimisation of space, in my opinion, and I think it could open up many possibilities in terms of upping the capacity on coasters that do two laps!

Sorry to triple post, but Attraction Source has pointed out something very interesting; a hybrid coaster is apparently shown in the concept art, within the medieval section: https://www.facebook.com/213894828494/posts/10158874116593495/ Could the London Resort be building an RMC?

Cheers, both! I’ll admit I’m surprised at how far Thorpe Farm was from Canada Creek/Old Town; given the distance, surely a train from the bit by Rumba Rapids and the area that now houses Nemesis Inferno would have made more sense? I’m also surprised at how close Thorpe was allowed to build the farm to Thorpe village, as well as just how far away it was from everything else… Thorpe Park was strangely a lot bigger in the 80s, as according to the book, they also had a walk-around attraction about war planes going around an entirely separate lake! Was Treasure Island Railway a separate ride to Canada Creek Railway, or was it the same ride, but a marginally different route? Also, does the park still own the sites of Treasure Island and Thorpe Farm? Could they potentially function as future ride sites if the park wanted? Sorry to ask so many questions; I’ll admit that learning about pre-Tussauds Thorpe does interest me, because as someone who didn’t visit for the first time until 2014 (by which point the park was quite comfortable in the skin of a thrill seeker haven), I find it hard to fathom the prospect of Thorpe Park ever having had these kinds of attractions and being that kind of park. 80s Thorpe Park sounds like somewhere my thrill-hating Nan would have quite liked (she’s said to me herself that her thrill threshold doesn’t extend beyond Pembrokeshire’s Folly Farm, and often moans about how Chessington’s peak was when it was primarily a zoo), while I wouldn’t dream of taking her to modern day Thorpe Park, or even a more family-friendly place like Alton Towers or Chessington! I guess it puts into perspective just how much the 2000s changed the park…

Hi guys. Sorry to bother you all, but I've recently been re-reading Making Thorpe Park by Chris Atkinson (an excellent read, by the way!), and when discussing the earlier years of the park, it talked quite a bit about Treasure Island, a pirate-themed train ride and show (I think?) that the park operated under RMC. The land is allegedly not in use anymore. So my question was; where exactly was Treasure Island, and does the park still own the land? I'd also be intrigued to know about Thorpe Farm, but I know that was near Canada Creek/Old Town, as the Canada Creek Railway used to run to Thorpe Farm until 2006.