Flipper

Think it's a little far-fetched to say there's a lack of an Ents department at Thorpe, considering that they are still around operating additional events during Summer Nights on the beach; Shark entertainment in the evening; Live events during summer, easter egg hunts at Easter... Okay, it's not what it was, nor is it to everybody's taste; but they do still operate. Shame about Sub Terra, but it's not popular. I've done it a handful of times and I wouldn't be too bothered if it closed altogether, and losing actors at the end doesn't bother me too much, Hex is a far more enjoyable dark ride. And I've never ridden Blade, it's the only Merlin UK Pirate Ship I haven't been on, and again, I just don't care if it goes. I've come to accept that Thorpe Park has flat rides in excess, to cover for when half of them break; and Towers just rip things out and replace them with gimmick coasters.

This just looks incredible; and I really do hope Critter Creek does them well, as it's only really a re-theme of the Stinger; Beastie Burrows is a new attraction using the existing Wind in the Willows (what an incredible change to frontage), and the Expedition Express is a new ride. Makes me miss working there seeing how incredible they've changed that area. Seriously looking forward to Lost Kingdom, as I honestly feel it's going to really bump them up the table with the rides going into it (I mean, two new coasters yay!). And if the re-theme is anything to go by, LK should be mind blowing.

@Ian, everything ran one. Inferno, Colossus, Swarm, Stealth all on one. X loaded one and eventually started loading two.

People pay for a service and its not acceptable to have SBNO rides? *cough* you're talking to ex-BPB here, so where do we start? Whip, Turtle Chase, Space Invader 2, Bling, Vikingar (Water Chute), Cableway, Gold Mine, Rollercoaster, pretty much always the yellow Steeplechase, PMBO is SBNO whenever someone farts near it, Superbowl, Trauma Towers... Need I go on?

If I had to pay to walk a lift hill, I'm pretty sure it's a much more pleasant experience having a walk on a coaster lift at Thorpe (preferably Swarm although Inferno's is amazing to see Thorpe), or really any at Towers; than to walk up the Pepsi Max Big One... Oh look, some sand, oh look, an oil mark, oh look their last major thrill investment in the form of a relocated Vekoma SLC that's rougher than a bear's behind...

Again Fred, your post is confusing as I don't see any point in which I mention cleanliness? So just to clarify, the trains have had their winter maintenance, or have they had their maintenance checks? Because there is a difference and you should know this... My point remains, if they have all been stripped and refurbished, there's clearly going to be more work done relatively quickly as they actual train conditions on one of them looked untouched. Also, loved the addition of 'numpty' was a nice touch that. Don't see how it's relevant though, although to be frank I don't really understand why anything you've contributed lately is productive to this topic, or Thorpe for that matter.

This attraction has just, ruined Inferno. I'm sorry. It could be completely irrelevant but all this new signage all over Inferno's exit the 'Hall of Fame' and crap like that is crazily tacky, and I can only presume it has something to do with the new photo area coming in, as it's all Picsolve stuff....

It would also take a fair bit for SAW's chain to snap, considering its pretty robustly enclosed, it's not like a Mauher spinner where it has a loose end... How anyone can actually say it's acceptable to have as much closed as they do is beyond me. I think I am quite lenient with the parks, but today just took the biscuit. X closed until the afternoon, then opening on one train loading. Rush closed most of the day with no engineers actually present just ride staff seeming unprepared (I can only presume it's fallen until this morning to refresh staff but still). Samurai advertised as closed until Easter, meaning its been closed since pre-Fright Nights. Slammer, being Slammer, not acceptable frankly but it's the one everyone seems to let slip. The bottom line is advertised or not, today five rides (Rumba, Tidal, Slammer, Samurai, and SAW) failed to open, and a further two opened notably late (Rush, X) and others opened later than planned (although before I really arrived). For people who are paying their £25 minimum (which it is now, £49.99 on the gate full whack, £25 on 2-4-1 or online) it was abysmal to see so much closed. At the end of the day, yeah, the park was quiet - 5 min waits on one train operations - but these people pay money to come in, and they will pay money to come to the park again if they see it worthwhile. But frankly, if I'd paid even £25 today, it'd leave a bitter taste in my mouth. To a degree I feel a bit sour that I wasted a day there today, when (in defence) on the day Alton Towers opens it will most likely have a damn sight better ride line up available. Sorry just to add as an edit: SAW was not advertised closed outside, nor have any of these attractions been listed on Facebook or their website. As far as guests are concerned, Tidal, Rumba, Slammer, Samurai are open until the moment they go to the ticket kiosk.

But in your last post you said they've stripped and rebuilt every train, so please, do make your mind up. There's a difference between the whole ride being done, slap bang, lets go for 2015 no major work to do; and it being at an operatable state with further work to be carried out, ie Train one is done, train two can run but needs doing, and train three is in progress. Anyway lets go back to talk about Thorpe from people who actually bother visiting.

They must be having issues sorting out it's queue line, what with the new weighing scales and single rider queue... *walks away*

So IAC exits at Inferno photos? Okay then, so I'll guess it'll become SAW: Alive-esque where it's a case of get out, here's your photo, assuming the existing photo desk will become for IAC. So where is Inferno's photos going then? :S

I for certain am reluctant to put my shoes in a storm surge boat, let alone my bare feet, and I cringe at people who do... And I think saying Thorpe'll need to do X Y and Z because of IPs is harsh. Okay, IPs aren't fantastic, but Christ, we're on our seventh season with SAW, and it's not any less popular because it's SAW, and that's a done brand as we've said time and time again. SAW Alive still stands highly popular at Fright Nights also; and serves well. IAC has been going for years and years and is still a popular TV show and probably will be for years yet, and albeit maybe Thorpe will reduce its operating times or find ways to make it lower budget once the rush has gone, but I can't see it being short lived. Likewise with Angry Birds; it's just one of those things that kind of sits on the App Store - I mean surely the 700 billion iPhone users or whatever Apple quoted earlier have downloaded and played it by now. And I think comparing this park with that park isn't entirely fair. Yes. It isn't looking particularly good. But then there was a major backlash of the state of Disneyland Paris which has resulted in Disney stepping back in and throwing crazy money at it to fix it. Admittedly the USA Disney's are of a much greater standard, but then look at how much they actually spend on rides and things in comparison to their gate figures. Disney Parks alone take around double of the whole of Merlin, but they're not sticking in multi-million pound roller coasters in every park (or Resort shall we say) every year. Its a show here, or a retheme, and occasionally a big major roller coaster that puts the world's budgets to shame, but my point is there is much much more money for them to play with.

To quote Fred from another topic 'I do hate staff members who come and defend the park to the death' AIR was in a horrific state over Feb HT with restraint issues and questionable wheel standards. This was on one of the two trains, the other one looked spotless. So clearly they haven't managed to get two done in time... which is a shame, but I'm sure with Towers being just so amazing and perfect they'll have it done ASAP. Oh, but if it's true that all trains - oh sorry, Crafts because Fred's keeping it 100% on brand - have been stripped down then I find it concerning, considering there was restraints with jammed vests that didn't actually retract to your body and instead left people hanging their shoulders on the bar, which when staff were told they just didn't give a damn. Christ, next you'll be telling me Spinball's been refurbished too when the thing can't even centralise the cars this year

It's the can of worms debate SAW is rougher, no Colossus is rougher... they're both rougher than they really should be, and personally I'd rather take one sudden jolt than a whole ride of head banging but that's just me. I agree, front row Colossus always seems smoother, but them bars just make it too unbearable. Thankfully it's not Baco rough, but then I'll just wait for Marc to say Baco isn't rough because it's an Intamin and Intamin can do no wrong in his eyes

I'm not saying it doesn't look shoddy but considering the state of other areas of the park (eg Colossus, the dwindling state of X, Stealth plaza etc.) I think it's something that probably isn't high on their list of priorities. And I don't work for Thorpe

Given their staff standards at Adventure Island I'd say pretty simple. Heck, they even send out floods of invites for employment on LinkedIn so if they do get around 1,000 applicants and they're employing the best, there is no hope for Essex.

I don't know why but I feel as if I've seen a poster somewhere advertising they're going to be bringing more live music into the park... so maybe that's exactly what Summer Nights is going to become? Instead of having Coca Cola Live Presents during the day.

With regards to what I posted it was in response to everything I've pretty much missed throughout the topic. With regards to the ride offering argument I fully agree that there is obvious comparisons; and I do agree on the Inferno topic when Nemesis is running. Benin I know you're not thick but when AIR has wheels that are obviously cracking, shredding and running to less than an inch now, I think anyone who knew the tiniest bit on ride wheels would question it. I do fully agree with the comparable on the Cbeebies meet and greets; however my point still remains the overall cost, when it comes to Value for Money I do feel Thorpe has the better upperhand on that one, considering the price of Half Term at Towers being more anyway; and I certainly don't think they could charge £5 to everybody for something that isn't intended for everybody, I mean seriously who here actually went to see these characters? Whereas in comparison, Thorpe offered the four or so mini-shows and their major show. And no, this shouldn't have come with a cost; as at the end of the day plenty of European parks offer shows at no additional fee (Music Generation at PortAv still being one of my personal favourites along with Saloon De La Roxy). My point regarding the Gerstlauer comparisons was a simple one, it puzzles me how, even ignoring Cobra and T-Trucks, Rage can operate in any given temperature and Smiler and SAW can't, and it does make me question is it a design flaw to a degree, which I think Benin you know deep down as, like you said, they stall for the ships and giggles And with regards to CWOA, I'm not defending them, and again, I'm not trying to hype up a bit of paint and some new fish. But I think AstroDan made a very unfair point a few pages back saying they don't invest anything at all, because 'people will just come anyway' when this really isn't the case in any of the attractions Merlin operate, let alone the parks; they're constantly investing into each attraction and actually when you look statistically, something is added to EVERY attraction worldwide in the company. Be it the latest roller coaster or a new show, something goes in everywhere.

Glad to see all those years you spent working on it have given you a thorough knowledge of it from front to back. Good on you for memorising its throughput

Really though, what is the bare requirement or them to order and put on some go faster flames on Inferno's wheel covers when the only people who notice/care are a handful of enthusiasts? It doesn't make the ride look worse, or make the experience change so what's the dire need for them, especially when all they do is peel and look tacky after a week anyway...

It won't let me multi quote -.- A few points which I'd like to question, starting with ride availability at Towers. Lol. I'm not going to say they haven't offered a lot, because they have; however I went last Wednesday, and it was pretty bad to see the reliability of rides. Spinball on four cars, running one empty and constantly having issues coming into the station with lining up - questionable that it's running as poorly as that considering it's had three months of maintenance time. Likewise, Nemesis only having one train built up at all and having issues at that; and AIR, well, I don't think the trains have actually been worked on as when you look at the wear on the wheels they're nearly done for, and haven't changed a bit since Fireworks - so is it actually maintenance making these rides easier to open, or is it a case of they've pretty much not done a lot with them to have them open, in comparison to Thorpe who seem to have actually worked on their rides to ensure that what's ran, is ready to go for the start of the year. I also disagree that this ride and that ride can and cant run temperatures, blah blah. Why isn't Rita open? If Stealth can open, surely Rita can, so I don't agree with the views I've read on Towers forums that it's not possible for Rita to be open in time due to maintenance; because lets be serious, Towers had crap maintenance on the cable, it snapped, and now they're scared. I also argue on Smiler and SAW. If Rage at Adventure Island can open for the full season, as can Troublesome Trucks (DMP) and Cobra (Paultons) then surely SAW and Smiler haven't got a temperature issue in opening based on ride type, but merely a design flaw in the form of they'll stall because they both have 'crawling' elements in the form of the overbank and the knot. Pricing? I still stand by what I said, £5 for Fright Nights, £5 for Half Term, is still a fair compromise considering Towers charge upwards of £12 last year to Annual Pass holders for one trip though each maze, in comparison to Thorpe's offering of five mazes on unlimited trips (queue permitting) and also a 45 minute show at Half Term and side line additions, so how anybody can pick fault at Thorpe's charges or at very least compare them to Towers' is beyond me, because when it comes to VFM whilst I do think the charge is a bit of a pain for Standard MAP, its still overall better than what Towers offer; and like people have said if people don't want to pay, they'll wait. I'm premium and I only went to Towers because someone else wanted to, and I couldn't be arsed with Thorpe's line up considering Stealth and SWARM aren't rides I run for, free or not. I'd also like to highlight how much Alton Towers charged in their hotels over half term. As an Annual Pass holder my DISCOUNTED quote came in at £145 for ATH and £160 for Splash. Full whack was around the £200 mark a night, and have been since early January without any theme park or waterpark tickets included - which IMO is just extortionate considering the event. But I guess it's all a matter of opinion. Oh and finally. Please, FFS, Chessington DO invest. Wild Asia (2010), Azteca Sealife and park refresh (2011), Madagascar (2012), Zufari (2013), Azteca Hotel (2014), Penguins (2015) - you have to remember the Green Belt issue! They have real difficulty getting planning permission for things, and have to keep so much green space hence they do the best they can with the Explorer Gate car park by keeping it grass. Just because they're not building gimmicky roller coasters like Alton Towers, or some kind of new attraction yearly like Thorpe, doesn't mean it isn't investing! Diva fit, over.

I may be getting it confused then as upon reading it is just Colossus traditionally does/did. I had it in my head that they both did on the Fright Fests' leading up to it (2012/2013).

Someone made a very good point. They've got to pay for Braniac, plus the park capacity is significantly reduced. They can let in (as an example) 2,000. If they let in 1,000 Annual Pass holders, where's the money to pay for February Half Term to be up and running? The staff, the maintenance, the show, etc. It's the same with Fright Nights and Scarefest. Thorpe offer five additional attractions, you pay £5. Towers offer two additional mazes, you pay £12. So actually, when you look at your additional costs... THORPE for Standard MAP: £5 for half term, £5 for Fright Nights = £10 extra per year, per visit to both. Towers for Standard MAP: Free for half term, £12 for Scarefest mazes = £12 extra per visit. So when you look at it, Thorpe just charge you a similar amount in two ways, not one. Don't like it? Then go buy Premium and have done with it...

I'm pretty sure if you look into it, traditionally SFMM have ran Batman (and also the late Colossus RIP) backwards year on year for their Hallowe'en event. Having been on Magic Mountain's Batman both forwards and backwards, I do agree it was much more pleasant forwards; but backwards on it isn't something I'd knock. It worked well, and was far far better than backwards on Swarm (which to be frank I prefer to forwards on Swarm but thats personal opinion). I wouldn't care to see it done again though. The biggest, biggest problem with Batman backwards was the sheer fact that it was uncomfortable. Coming off the lift gave an almighty head whack on the pre-drop; but above that the fact the system wasn't set to release the bars correctly, and instead was reliant on staff to pull the mechanism down to release the bars... it's just a no-no. (Mark9 was this the same when you went a few weeks after me?). Keep Inferno forwards. And by all means, build backwards roller coasters, just make them a good one.

Just throwing a few bits out there... 1. The £5 charge for standard MAP holders is ludicrous, but is a decision made by the park and not by the Merlin Annual Pass team who work with the attractions regarding anything and everything from restrictions on standard, to the birthday vouchers you get with a premium pass. 2. What do you expect? They got their complaints, but when people happily paid to go into Fright Nights as a special event; and likewise people are paying through their noses for Santa Lunch with CBeebies Land at Alton Towers; LEGOLAND Windsor Resorts' christmas event; and the additional fee for the Gruffalo Christmas event for Chessington (note, zoo days are different); then why wouldn't THORPE charge £5 for, like has been said, a restricted event where the capacity of the park will be lower. Those who want to go will pay; and its easy money for the park. Those who really begrudge it, will just hold out. I mean, be realistic, it's the only park in the South which is offering thrill rides of any kind (well, rides of any kind) around London, and people will lap it up since Chessington will have Zoo Days with Seastorm and/or Bubbleworks traditionally, and Lego is closed. 3. Finally, SAW. I wouldn't be surprised if it stays closed. Ricky touched upon it a few pages back, but with all Gerstlauer coasters (and having operated two and knowing someone who's operated Rage), they have an instantaneous shutdown programming. SAW has it, Rage has it, even Cobra at Paultons has it, where if the cars are running too slow around the track the ride will shut down. This is notable in colder weather. Rage manages as it runs one car and in fairness doesn't hang around too much on its track even when its cold (except the loop, and at Xmas they don't load the back row so it doesn't hold as much weight on the car anyway). Even over Christmas at Paultons they run it on less cars, on slower dispatches, to give itself room for fast cars and slow cars, a safety margin if you will. SAW cannot do this, as it is set to load two at a time. So if car one runs the circuit in 82 seconds, and car one runs it in 74 seconds then the system will error, and shut down. Or likewise like Ricky has said, the nature of the ride can cause cars to stall on the overbank turn if the car doesn't gain the correct speed from the drop (exactly the same as Cobra, if it doesn't have the speed, the car will run the circuit slower and can risk stalling although its very very unlikely on Cobra). This exact reason is why I'm surprised Sonic Spinball is operating this year, considering that too has proven it can stall when cold...