Is Alton Still Going To Be No.1 In 5 Years Time?

[rickydoodle]

Some of the reasons posted in this thread for Alton being 'number one' are quite frankly, rubbish.I'd like to know what defines 'number one'? Most coasters? Most visitors? Biggest queues?Alton has the advantages of its location - it's in the centre of the country and therefore can be accessed by a large number of visitors allowing two hours for travel. While the Alton site is 'huge' - the amount of land available for expansion is somewhat limited and will be the biggest factor in the development of the park.We've seen it with TH13TEEN where the park operated a 'one in, one out' policy with Corkscrew and it's likely that this will have to happen in the future.Thorpe is aiming towards a niche market, but that's the best way forward due to its close proximity to Chessington and Legoland. It also has easy access to London and the huge numbers of tourist that the city attracts.The teenage market is also one that has some disposable income - and often will make repeat trips whereas a family visit to Alton Towers may only occur annually. If you think about the developments at Thorpe since 2000 and those outlined in the MTDP - it's not hard to imagine Thorpe going on a par with Alton.

[James6]

^ Interesting points, but in my opinion it is hard to imagine that, very hard. Alton is a much more "rounded" park with attractions for everyone, better theming, better rides and the like, along with 2 hotels and an entire resort. The only reason Corkscrew and Th13teen was a direct swap was because that was the best area for this particular ride, and Corkscrew wasn't doing the park any favours. They've said that in the future it is unlikely they'll do any more removal's for additions, unless they have to.

[rickydoodle]

^ Interesting points, but in my opinion it is hard to imagine that, very hard.

Again - it depends on what is being used as the measure.

Alton is a much more "rounded" park with attractions for everyone, better theming, better rides and the like, along with 2 hotels and an entire resort. The only reason Corkscrew and Th13teen was a direct swap was because that was the best area for this particular ride, and Corkscrew wasn't doing the park any favours. They've said that in the future it is unlikely they'll do any more removal's for additions, unless they have to.

I don't think theming is the be all and end all, with Thorpe - I'd suspect that teenagers aren't overly impressed with theming and aren't looking to be immersed in attractions.

[electricBlll]

Thorpe Park is the type of theme park that focusses on quality rides and attractions. It has become less and less interested in continous theming, even though recent developments have been themed properly. However, Alton Towers focusses (or at least, it did until around 2003, and perhaps then again from 2008 onwards) on its theatricallity and atmosphere as well as quality rides. Both parks have seen significant boosts in marketing and devlopment in recent years, but they are still very different to each other, to the extent in which I think they cannot be fairly compared.I will always prefer theatricallity over rides, so I will always prefer Alton Towers over Thorpe Park. That does not mean I don't like Thorpe Park. One notable point is that I think both have a long way to go before they are world class.

[D4n]

I will always prefer theatricallity over rides, so I will always prefer Alton Towers over Thorpe Park. That does not mean I don't like Thorpe Park. One notable point is that I think both have a long way to go before they are world class.

Personally I would say Alton Towers is world class already, visiting the likes of Universal Orlando and Busch Gardens Tampa Bay this year I was surprised to find that, individually, Alton Towers is a better stand alone park than either of them. Admittedly this may not be the theme park itself, and more the friendly atmosphere, the spectacular gardens and towers, with the addition of the (mostly) well themed park. I would consider Alton world class, myself, not top of the pile (I understand that the likes of Europa Park are generally rated much higher), but I think it'd be unfair not the consider it a world class theme park. Thorpe Park however is NOT world class, far from it, in fact. I'm not saying it's a bad park, but it's leagues away from the likes of Alton Towers, Busch Gardens, Universal Orlando, and even Chessington. ... in my opinion.

[James6]

^ I'd go as far to say it's a bad park ;)But yeah, agree with Dan and a similar situation, visited DLP and whilst Parc Disneyland is a better park, the gap wasn't as big as a LOT of people make out. Although there's always going to those things it's behind on.And people say that the quality of rides is something focused on at Thorpe more. I can't think of one ride I'd take at Thorpe over one at Alton, oh, apart from Rush.

[D4n]

And people say that the quality of rides is something focused on at Thorpe more. I can't think of one ride I'd take at Thorpe over one at Alton, oh, apart from Rush.

So Stealth vs Charlie?You'd pick Charlie?

[James6]

Haha, of course when comparing similar rides ;)Charlie vs Thorpe's dark rid... oh wait, they don't have one...

[electricBlll]

Well of course Thorpe Park has good quality rides, with the exception of X No Way Out, Depth Charge, most of the old 80s ones and the slide next year. I don't mean good quality as in my opinion of them is high, I mean that they are professional and sophisticated. It has B&M inverted coaster, a small version of the top hatting launched coaster, a well themed Gerstlaurer, etc. Many places might just have an old Vekoma to handle the thrill bracket. And I have not even started on the flats yet.So, Thorpe Park does have good quality rides, whether they are critically well recieved or not does not change that really. But, if you really want to compare the two, Alton Towers has critically better rollercoasters because there are more of them and the are nearly all innovative.

[D4n]

So, for you, a 'professional and sophisticated' ride is a traveling Mondial Top Scan? I'm sure you just forgot it. Other than that, I completely agree with you, Peter.

[electricBlll]

So, for you, a 'professional and sophisticated' ride is a traveling Mondial Top Scan?

No.

I'm sure you just forgot it.

Yes.

[Mark9]

So, for you, a 'professional and sophisticated' ride is a traveling Mondial Top Scan?

Just because a ride is a travelling funfair ride, how is it not a professional and sophisticated ride?

[rickydoodle]

So, for you, a 'professional and sophisticated' ride is a traveling Mondial Top Scan?

Grrr. I've only been on this forum a matter of days and I feel like I'm repeating myself. Some of you guys really need to start to understand something.... Thorpe Park, or any other theme park for that matter DOES NOT exist to service you as an enthusiast - they are there to serve the public and make a profit. Do the public know what a Topscan is? - NoDo they know who Mondial are? - NoDo they care? - NoWill they wait 45 mins for it? - YesWill they come off smiling? - Yes Will they tell their friends about it? - YesYou can bitch and moan about the ride line up all you want, in the leisure industry the punters vote with their feet and they're flocking to Thorpe, like it or not. The term "coaster enthusiast" is a funny one - because more often than not it seems as if all the enthusiasm is sucked out of you when you become so tied up with the little details and refuse to see the big picture.

[D4n]

Just because a ride is a travelling funfair ride, how is it not a professional and sophisticated ride?

Because it's not designed for a theme park, has literally no theming, and terrible capacity.

Grrr. I've only been on this forum a matter of days and I feel like I'm repeating myself. Some of you guys really need to start to understand something.... Thorpe Park, or any other theme park for that matter DOES NOT exist to service you as an enthusiast - they are there to serve the public and make a profit.

I'm not questioning whether the public like it or not, I'm saying that that IN MY OPINION, Samurai is not a professional and sophisticated ride, I have the right to that opinion.

[rickydoodle]

I'm not questioning whether the public like it or not, I'm saying that that IN MY OPINION, Samurai is not a professional and sophisticated ride, I have the right to that opinion.

The point is, if you refer to the section of my post that you conveniently edited out - that it is in YOUR OPINION as a COASTER ENTHUSIAST - not a member of the public who theme parks function for.

[D4n]

And that means I'm not allowed an opinion on the matter... does it?

[rickydoodle]

And that means I'm not allowed an opinion on the matter... does it?

Not at all. It does however mean that your opinion is somewhat invalid in the eyes of the park

[D4n]

It shouldn't be invalid, not completely, the park should take in the views of all guests, including enthusiasts (yes, yes... they only make up 1% of guests or whatever), in deciding what to do with the park. Also, I'm not expressing my opinion to the park here, I'm expressing it to fellow enthusiasts.

[rickydoodle]

Again I go back to;

You can bitch and moan about the ride line up all you want, in the leisure industry the punters vote with their feet and they're flocking to Thorpe, like it or not. The term "coaster enthusiast" is a funny one - because more often than not it seems as if all the enthusiasm is sucked out of you when you become so tied up with the little details and refuse to see the big picture.

[D4n]

I can see the big picture, of course I can, Thorpe stick it so far into our faces it's hard not to see the big picture. However, your definition of coaster enthusiast is actually quite interesting, for me, because I don't have these problems with Chessington and Alton Towers (which I visit one hell of a lot more often than Thorpe), because there are far less of these 'little details' to annoy me... make of that what you will. And, please, please, don't throw the Thorpe don't care line at me again, I know they don't, I just want to share my opinions of the park.

[rickydoodle]

I can see the big picture, of course I can, Thorpe stick it so far into our faces it's hard not to see the big picture. However, your definition of coaster enthusiast is actually quite interesting, for me, because I don't have these problems with Chessington and Alton Towers (which I visit one hell of a lot more often than Thorpe), because there are far less of these 'little details' to annoy me... make of that what you will. And, please, please, don't throw the Thorpe don't care line at me again, I know they don't, I just want to share my opinions of the park.

I think with Thorpe there has obviously been a relatively short period of substantial investment and in some areas the park have gone for quantity over quality. The age group that the park is aiming towards are not known for their love of theming and want for attractions to heavily feature a storyline etc. Highly themed rides would no doubt lower the number of rides we have in the park today. For instance instead of Rush & Slammer in one year, you could have one or the other highly themed. Thorpe can't afford to drop overall park capacity, I think we all accept that.Theming Samurai, or any such other ride for that matter won't improve its capacity - and if they did theme it, it would probably retain the same re-ride factor and satisfaction rating among your core target audience - therefore wasting cap-ex.It's interesting you bring Chessington up - because I'd say the ride looks as much like a 'travelling funfair ride' at Thorpe than it did at Chessington. Would you have the same opinion of the ride if it hadn't have been moved? It's certainly a step up from the ride it replaced, yes?It may sound like I'm trying to discount your opinion, I'm not - it just needs to be acknowledged that the park is moving forward using the most cost efficient technique to ensure the highest park-wide capacity. And again, this doesn't make your opinion invalid - but sometimes the bigger picture has to come into play.

[D4n]

Whilst the ride was at Chessington it was still a travelling fair model, but on the other hand they did have some theming. At this point in time, however, I would be seeing it as a ride that needed to go, and yes it was better than the ride it replaced at Thorpe. However, your point of park wide capacity is one that I haven't heard before, and one that I suppose I can understand. However, it would be nice if now (and SAW: The Ride and SAW: Alive coming in the past 2 years is a step in the right direction, next years dinghy is probably not) they could put more emphasis on ride experience and theming, whilst the chavs don't tend to appreciate it (though on SAW they do ) it's not just the enthusiasts that do; you have your families, older people, even non-chavvy teens, who would prefer to have a ride 'experience' rather than going high and fast and round and round.

[Marc]

However, your point of park wide capacity is one that I haven't heard before, and one that I suppose I can understand. However, it would be nice if now (and SAW: The Ride and SAW: Alive coming in the past 2 years is a step in the right direction, next years dinghy is probably not) they could put more emphasis on ride experience and theming, whilst the chavs don't tend to appreciate it (though on SAW they do ) it's not just the enthusiasts that do; you have your families, older people, even non-chavvy teens, who would prefer to have a ride 'experience' rather than going high and fast and round and round.

Why change though, its worked so well for the past 10 years, why the need to try and change their target audience once again.I think what people need to appreciate abit is whilst it may not cater for everyone, the development at thorpe park has been nothing short of outstanding in the past 10 years, when you compare to what it once was, in terms of ride line ups and the amount of interest pulled, to the fact now people are discussing if one day it may steal altons crown at the top spot says an awful lot.

[D4n]

I'm not saying to change the target audience, just have a few attractions that are well themed 'experiences' rather than just rides. A family dark ride and good theming on the 2012 coaster, for example, you'd have 2 'experiences', whilst sticking with the target market. Obviously, this is just my opinion, but for me that's what Thorpe is missing. I don't mind the target audience, not really, just the fact that almost every ride is aimed solely at them.

[rickydoodle]

Obviously, this is just my opinion, but for me that's what Thorpe is missing. I don't mind the target audience, not really, just the fact that almost every ride is aimed solely at them.

But that is the only logical way forward when Chessington is in such close proximity. No?