Coaster
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On 10/7/2024 at 8:03 PM, JoshC. said:
Aside from Stealth, can you give any examples of a park buying more trains than they can run on the track at any one time?
I know of a couple:
Blue Fire at Europa, which has 5 but can run a maximum of 4.
Joris en de Draak at Efteling, which again has 5 but (across the 2 coasters) runs a maximum of 4.
I'm struggling to think of more examples, but I'd love to hear more. I'd be very surprised if there's any outside of the biggest theme park players.
Let's take stock for a second. One of these is a Mack coaster at the theme park that Mack owns and operates, and is the only such instance where they've done that.
Efteling purchased a 5th train for Joris around 13 years after opening, following issues.
These are two extreme examples. You are saying that Thorpe should, in engineering terms, be in the same league - or better - than two theme parks which are considered some of the best in the world. One of which has a huge engineering advantage of being owned by a manufacturer, one of which is open daily and has huge financial backing.
I'm all for aiming high and Thorpe being the best they can be, but we have to acknowledge the limitations there.
To say the park "cheaped out" by not buying a 3rd train is crazy. A 3rd train is likely a high-6 / low-7 figure number. On top of that, you realistically need to include extra space for the third train in maintenance. That costs more. Then you need more money to maintain a 3rd train. All adds up.
On top of this, we have an area which looks far from perfect, and money needs to be spent there to bring that up to the quality it should be. That's where they've cheaped out.
If the park were to have bought a third train, and they couldn't increase the budget, that would come either at the sake of even worse presentation, or an even shorter layout.
And remember, this is all in the situation for when a train cannot be used whatsoever, which is - across the board - not that common occurrence.
I can think of a few examples where parks have kept/built up more trains than they need; up until 2020-ish, BPB would always have 3 trains in the station for Big One and 3 for Avalanche, even though those rides have not operated with 3 trains for well over 15 years in both cases. I guess this is a slightly different case in that the rides were both designed for 3, but the park were still making more trains serviceable than they needed. (Sadly this has stopped now - and as a result both run with one train much more often).
Also, the Roller Coaster at GYPB has 3 serviceable trains even though it very rarely runs more than one at a time.
Perhaps it comes down to whether a longer coaster with the ability to run 3 trains would have been ideal - then, if one was out of action, there would be 2 available by design. I take onboard that buying a 3rd train without being able to run it would be expensive, but I do hope they are able to find a fix of some kind as the situation now is far from ideal.
On 10/7/2024 at 8:03 PM, JoshC. said:Incorrect. The park have not sold "more" Fastrack.
The park have sold Fastrack in line with the expected throughput that Hyperia would achieve. However, that, topped with shutdowns and multiple Hyperia Fastrack tickets being given out as a result, means that the queue length spiralled on occasions.
I add here: I do not think that selling Fastrack for the major new coaster when it's on 1 train is a good idea. I do not think they should do it whatsoever. However, the park are categorically not selling more Fastrack, or selling it at a greater proportion compared to when it was on two trains.
I wasn't suggesting Thorpe had increased the Fastrack capacity; but more that it's likely that more people bought one to avoid the four hour queue, and going by the 60 minute Fastrack queue time, it did not seem that Thorpe had taken any measures to reduce the capacity to factor in the 1 train. Therefore, they could have potentially sold more than usual despite not literally increasing the number of available Fastracks.
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1 hour ago, Benin said:
The 99% factored in Stealth. Though nowadays it only ever has 2 ready for actual operation (3rd one is in strip down mode all season if I recall?).
I also said parks buy the amount of trains to suit the block brakes/sections. Not like parks in the US have 4 trains rather than 3 (if they ever operate to a decent standard) on those that can.
Hyperia doesn't have a MCBR, so cannot run 3 trains at one time. What's the point in buying and maintaining an additional train when the engineering team is stretched as it is and you'll not be likely to need it on a regular basis. 2006 Thorpe is not 2024 Thorpe, and probably got the 3rd train on Stealth due to Rita being problematic the year before.
As said, it's weird that it's a bug bear for Hyperia but not Swarm for example. Wickerman is about the only one that can actually run 3 trains (and even then sometimes you're sat in the brakes for ages, thus negating the throughput bonus).
The point; to prevent, or vastly reduce the frequency of, a situation where the most popular coaster in the park is running one train during one of the busiest periods of the year. Having a 4 hour main queue and 60 min Fastrack queue on one train is ridiculous.
With the maintenance team being stretched; this is also a Merlin/industry issue, which the company needs to resolve through better terms to attract more employees.
I don’t think we should accept bare minimum because of another problem that is within the company's power to resolve - they are just choosing not to.
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57 minutes ago, Benin said:
So weird that people are going on about "should've bought 3 trains" when it is not a regular thing for any park in the world to do. Parks 99% of the time will only buy enough to fit on the respective block brakes.
Why stop at 3? Get 4 trains on it, spend more money on a larger maintenance shed area instead. Problem solved.
I'm pretty sure Thorpe originally bought 3 trains for Stealth for this exact reason? Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Thorpe really should have bought three trains to ensure that when one is unavailable, they still have two serviceable ones.
They cheaped out and guest experience has taken a massive hit during one of their busiest periods; but it's okay, because they've used it as an opportunity to sell more Fastrack. And so continues the mediocrity.
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It's been closed on well over half of my visits this year.
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On 8/25/2024 at 8:47 PM, JoshC. said:
Not to be facetious, but have you raised / are you raising a complaint with the park? It's clear that Thorpe do see social media discourse (including the forums), but they will take further notice of a complaint which can be passed onto the relevant departments properly.
I've raised a complaint this year about the inaccuracy of the height measuring sticks across the park. I've noticed that the more accurate / consistent slider measures are now in place at rides following my complaint. Now I know that they didn't read my email, and immediately order slider measures, place them clearly at rides and encourage ride staff to use them. But I like to think they've taken notice of that complaint, and similar ones people have made, to make the decision to address that complaint.
Obviously it's not my place to tell someone whether they should lodge a formal complaint or not, and I'm sure if the Head of Customer Services is reading these forums they're cursing my name at the fact I'm actively encouraging people to flood the customer services inbox. But I genuinely believe it is the best thing to do (certainly much better than going on social media saying Thorpe Park are lying, when it's simply people behind a screen giving out stock answers which they're given, and can't do anything about)
I haven't, largely because a few weeks prior I raised a concern about a separate issue in guest services and was told "there's nothing we can do."
In that instance, I explained that two of my friends had come in on day tickets and Hyperia had remained closed until 6pm (at the point we visited GS it was due to be closed all day), several coasters had opened an hour + late, downtime across the park was pretty drastic and Fastrack overselling caused a 60 minute queue on Inferno to become 2 hours. I was told that because the "magic return" (can't remember the official name for it) hadn't been activated, nothing could be done.
Absolutely not the fault of the staff behind the desks, but the sign of a management who simply don't care once they've got people through the gates.
If the day described above wasn't deemed awful enough to offer a return visit, I have to question what standards they actually aim for and whether raising a complaint about Hyperia closing would be a productive use of my time.
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1 hour ago, Marc said:
I don’t think it’s fair to accuse someone of lying, there is a human behind them tweets rather than “Thorpe park”, maybe the tweets should have pointed to the information in the app that states the queues will close early but don’t think it’s fair to be calling them liars.
They seem to close the queue so that the ride isn’t operating too long after park close, for what ever reason that is, so I suspect that makes it very hard to actually give a time it will close, when I joined around 8:25 there was lots of people congregating around the entrance / area to try jump In for that last ride so I do see why it’s difficult in that respect to set a time well in advance.
Ultimately, Thorpe Park did put out information that was untrue.
With that said, I hold the management responsible, not the social media teams; there looks to be a lack of synergy between departments.
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2 hours ago, JoshC. said:
I understand the want for a night ride. But just take a step back. You got a ride at some point after 8.20pm. That's good, right? At worst, that's a ride happening at dusk. A ride at a time that wouldn't have been possible so far except on opening day. And you may also have gotten other rides during the day.
Your complaint boils down to the fact that the lack of communication meant you couldn't get another ride?
As I say, take a step back. Don't get me wrong, the communication can be improved, and it has left a sour taste for some, but saying something like this:
feels like an over-reaction to the situation.
The park have extended opening hours, with much of the park being quiet during those extended hours (likely due to poor weather), at a time when other parks within Merlin have cut opening hours and have reduced ride selection.
Whilst your experience left a poor final impression, there's a huge oversight on all the positives from yesterday.
First and last impressions are the most vital thing in customer experience. You can have a fantastic product/attraction, but if the final experience a customer has is poor, that will linger and leave a lasting negative impression. Thorpe Park, as a customer-orientated business, should understand this.
I deem it unprofessional because parks across the world manage to inform guests of when a ride queue will close. Phantasialand display closing times on electronic boards at each ride entrance, and even BPB (with all their faults) manage to display opening and closing times for each ride, both on their app and on the boards outside ride entrances. It's a basic part of operating a park, but somehow Thorpe can't get it right. If a park gives out inconsistent information across different channels, they're not even grasping the basics.
My complaint isn't specifically about getting another ride. It's that the queue closing time should be made clear both online, and from first thing when entering the park. Other parks do this, there is no excuse. Had we known in advance when Hyperia's queue would close, we would have joined nearer to 8:30pm to allow for a night ride. Instead, we missed out on a proper night ride due to Thorpe Park essentially lying on social media. -
Thorpe handled this terribly. It wasn't made clear at all with the app showing 21:00 as the closing time.
It was announced over the tannoy at 20:20 in the Hyperia area that the queue would close in 10 minutes time, but there was no notice given to people in any other area of the park, and to make it worse, the app was still showing the ride as open causing a lot of guests to arrive for their night ride and be turned away disappointed.
We were halfway down the queue when it was announced, meaning we lost the opportunity to get a night ride. If Thorpe had communicated the closing time properly throughout the day we could have planned to join the queue at a better time.
Worst of all, Thorpe actively lied on their social media pages on several occasions, guaranteeing that Hyperia would be open until 9pm when this wasn't the case!
You cannot be taken seriously as a park if you can't be honest with guests, managing closing times is nothing new and parks across the world manage to get it right to avoid leaving a poor final impression. Thorpe just aren't a professional outfit and it shows.
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Don't worry, I'm not back, just briefly returning to the forum to highlight what I feel is a very important talking point.
In a recent government report, Merlin Entertainments have been listed as a company who have not paid minimum wage. The company failed to pay minimum to 1,100 employees, equating to £43,000.
Source: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/over-500-companies-named-for-not-paying-minimum-wage
Ride Rater have published a further breakdown of all the available info:
https://riderater.co.uk/11561/merlin-entertainments-failed-to-pay-minimum-wage/
Flamingo Land are also named here for failing to pay 4 workers the minimum, following a previous report from Blackpool Pleasure Beach who had failed to pay 12 workers the minimum.
In 2018, the CEO of Merlin Entertainments took home a salary of £1,493,000. In contrast, the £43,000 owed to 1,100 employees would have still left £1,450,000 for the CEO. Staff rely on being paid at least the legal minimum to live off, to pay their bills. It's shameful that this has been allowed to happen.
Source: https://www.erieri.com/executive/salary/nick-varney-8ydw
I feel that as enthusiasts/people with an interest in theme parks, we have to pay attention to this and demand better for the staff who make our hobby possible.
- Martin Doyle, Inferno, skelly and 1 other
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3 hours ago, JoshC. said:
I don't know when the Doctor Who Toymaker/Emporium stuff came into the public domain, but it could also be purely coincidence.
1966; the Doctor Who villain 'The Toymaker' dates back to a William Hartnell episode.
Filming for the 60th anniversary (where the same character is being brought back, 'reimagined') took place in May and June 2022.
Pictures from the filming were available in the public domain (many were posted to Twitter, YouTube etc) including photos of the shop facade and a sign inside the shop stating "Toymaker of the year".
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1 hour ago, Martin Doyle said:
Plot twist. Coaster Jamie is parm pap!! He makes his return after so long!!
Ding dong, etc 😂
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Thorpe Park's new maze for 2023 has seemingly taken some inspiration from the 60th anniversary of Doctor Who.
The similarities are as follows:
1. Both 'villains' are called The Toymaker
2. Both operate out of a similar-looking toy emporium
Whilst the DW 60th anniversary has not aired yet, The Toymaker as a character originated in the 60s, and filming took place for the 60th anniversary special back in May/June last year; meaning that the DW story was likely written and planned well ahead of Thorpe Park.
Interested to hear theories on this. Has it taken inspiration, or purely a coincidence?
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There is a new promo image for Valhalla in the Visit Blackpool 2023 guide.
In the politest way possible, I don't know what to make of this. 😂
Guide: https://www.visitblackpool.com/latest-news/destination-guide-2023-is-here/
- Cal and Hethetheth
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On 11/28/2022 at 10:31 AM, coasterverse said:
Thinking of potentially finally experiencing BPB next year. Has anyone been during opening weekend? I assume it's probably very busy, but just wanted an idea of average queue times during opening weekend. Or do you think it'd be better holding off until April and going mid-week?
Opening weekend at PB has varied over the years, on a good year you're looking at decent ride availability but probably a lot of one train ops.
It's worth keeping an eye on their planned maintenance page in the weeks soon before opening to get an idea of ride availability:
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34 minutes ago, Mattgwise said:
Lots of controversy this evening. They closed the ride well before park close claiming there isn't enough lighting in the area.
That is incredibly poor.
Wicker Man opened in 2018, if it still doesn't have permanent lighting then that is an absolute joke frankly.
Why should guests miss out because Alton can't sort out very basic things? It's just not good enough, especially for a park of their scale.
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Wicker Man was reportedly on one train this weekend with the queue peaking at 150 minutes.
Ouch.
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In my eyes, Enso is an indicator that gives more believability to the consensus that Icon was not the roaring success that an investment of over £16 million should have been. It feels like a quick short-term way of re-marketing the ride, which is an idea that I already don’t like, but the real problems with this come from the logistics and upcharge.
I just don’t think it’s reasonable to expect guests to pay an additional £15 for this. A peak day ticket for PB costs £44 online, £46 at the gate, adding another £15 on equates to around £60 for a day at Pleasure Beach. That’s before you even look at the £25 option!
Logistically I feel like it’ll be a complete nightmare. Icon’s operations were unbearably slow in 2021, and that was just with the addition of seatbelts. The station isn’t built well for Speedy Pass, let alone having a mix of Enso and Speedy Pass riders going in (presumably) the same way, waving their phones at staff who are trying to run the ride safely and efficiently.
I just can’t envisage a way in which this won’t impact on operations of the ride – and that’s terrible.
An upcharge experience should not wreck the customer service for everyone else, nor should it provide a bad experience for those paying for it, but unless BPB have something up their sleeve, I cannot see any other way than Icon having its operations well and truly wrecked.
I am not onboard with the feeling that it was “inevitable” that it was going to be a high upcharge because of the logistics. To me, the logistics of only having 2 seats, a very low throughput, are all ‘Pleasure Beach’ issues. Why should guests pay more because the park has essentially implemented something really badly?
There is also the factor of the larger seats in the back row – how will Enso affect this? It’ll be hard for the staff to communicate with so many people, “sorry you have to wait, this is an Enso train, sorry you can’t go on yet, this is a standard train, etc. etc.”
What if the Enso train needs taking out of service for any reason, but there are guests who have paid turning up at their slot to ride it?
It just brings so many potential problems with it and in a year where the focus should be on Valhalla, it feels like a last-ditch attempt. It doesn’t give me faith in other things to be honest, if they’re having to fall back on this.
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I've spotted that BPB have updated their booking site to list that The Big One will still be unavailable on the following dates;
Sat 12th - Sun 13th March
Sat 19th - Sun 20th March
Probably linked to this.. ahem... issue.
It was only Grand National showing for these dates up until yesterday, so looks like (another) delay. On the plus side, I'm saving a lot of petrol so far this season!
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Latest on Valhalla
Promo video;
New theming items/plans from https://www.facebook.com/blackpoolpleasurebeach
I'm intrigued as to what the plan in that last picture is for!
- Martin Doyle and Mattgwise
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Blackpool Pleasure Beach
in UK Attractions
Posted
I imagine the announcement was made now to try to bury the sense of gloominess from the five ride closures this year 😅
I think this is a quality addition for PB; it will look striking from the promenade and within the park. Hopefully it's successful! The high capacity of 40 riders per cycle is also very welcome.
I'm personally more fussed about River Caves, but at least we have confirmation of its reimagining now (and not permanent closure as I feared).
If the park made alterations to their ticketing structure to make the most of their location I'm sure this new ride would be a hit, but we'll see.