SteveJ
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Posts posted by SteveJ
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22 minutes ago, JoshC. said:
And I put 2 and 2 together and thought you were saying because it hasn't had a themed area introduced since 2000, it's an amusement park. Got 5 instead though!
Yeah it's not had an actual themed area since those, I was saying that in agreement to the previous post that it's just loosely themed, so it doesn't particularly matter that the themes don't 'make sense' next to each other. As long as they look good and it makes for a nice park then that's just the park's vibe.
I don't think the public go into Thorpe Park for any reason than to enjoy the park and the rides, it should just focus on being good at that. It's more like Blackpool Pleasure Beach really.
Wheras the moment guests step into Efteling they're in a beautiful theme park with so many surprises and areas to explore, totally different appeal. The themed 'areas' might not have a big Merlin style archway saying "Welcome to ____ land" but that doesn't matter, each corner of the park is a little different and the attractions all sit next to next each other nicely.
Each park is different style when it comes to how they theme stuff, I wish Thorpe would stick to what it's best at really and clean itself up. It could really be great fun -
4 hours ago, JoshC. said:
I don't buy the whole 'a park has to have themed areas to be a theme park'. If you work with that logic, then you have to call Efteling an "amusement park" instead of a "theme park", which does a great disservice to Efteling. These two terms aren't enough to encapsulate all types of parks in the world.
More importantly though, does it matter? Whether it's a theme park or an amusement park, their core purpose is to have rides which people will enjoy. Both of those types of parks will know that some rides need to have theming to enhance their enjoyment, whilst some rides don't need theming to enhance their enjoyment. So in my opinion, it doesn't matter whether a park is one or the other, they'll do what's right.
I don't think I've seen anyone say a park "needs" themed areas to be a theme park. (Also every inch of Efteling is themed so I dont know what you mean there)
Like you say it's all about enjoyment. What I mean is, Thorpe Park makes for a terrible immersive style Phantasialand theme park, whenever it tries and fails to be that, but as a more simple stylish, throwaway kinda theme park it could be great fun! (that's kind of how it was in the past as a family park anyway)
Currently it's a very bad, not very enjoyable mish mash. The park is very grubby and uncool but tries to look slick and stylish. They try to force 'themed areas' and themed experiences when there aren't any, rather than focus on making the park look appealing or have any identity. A few surf boards and painted wood doesn't make a great park
Some of the ride themes are ok on their own, but most are depressing, cheap and all shoved together in a weird mess
I really don't know why they thought Derren Brown was a good idea for Thorpe, it was the last thing all that money needed spending on in my opinion.
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1 hour ago, JoshuaA said:
Honestly I kinda view Thorpe as more of a amusement park. Its loosely themed, but I honestly think the park really isn't about the theming or immersion and more about the rides.
Like sure some rides are well themed there, but the areas themselves aren't really immersive or anything worth caring about. Angry Birds Land is a brilliant example of how seriously you should take Thorpe as a theme park lol. If they made it more of an amusement park in the future I honestly wouldn't mind.
Yeah good point, it's much more an amusement park these days, it never actually had a real themed area since Ranger County, Fantasy Reef and Amity Cove to be honest.
The rides are themed, but the park really isn't. It's a Walibi style 'theme park', I think Thorpe Park should just focus on being really good at that, with a fresh stylish park. Otherwise it's really bad at being a full-on 'immersive' theme park. -
On 4/21/2020 at 3:10 PM, Marc said:
To be fair the same people who did the VR when it opened did the re-worked Vr on the 2nd train - they were also responsible for the VR in the first segment.
Yeah, just proves the point more that there wasn't any other reason for being so bad, it's because Merlin only paid enough for the most rushed / cheapest possible option
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All very interesting, thanks both
Consortium format often ends up a mess if there isn't really, really good management -
10 minutes ago, Marc said:
The leg ticklers were in place when it first opened - can make them out in the picture below on the left side of the train - also the smoke used to work and the screens played a news report in 2016 - think both were removed after the rise of demon changes.
Not those mini screens above, the big windows I mean, is it true these were initially simulator screens (or were designed so they could have been if wanted) before being covered/removed?
I heard a lot of the problems with the VR was that it was designed in relatively late to planning, rushed in by marketing who thought it would be a great addition, after some of the design had been done. It would certainly seem that way but may not be totally true.
Yeah the Simworx thing I'm also unclear about, I know other parties were involved in the manufacture but I heard that it was package prototype ride by Simworx (with those other aspects outsourced like the trains and track), excluding the VR on board. Again might just be an exaggeration that I was told.
One thing we do know for sure is there were changes to try accomodate the VR, in that wobbly period when the opening was delayed -
15 hours ago, JoshC. said:
Ghost Train was meant to have more effects that did not make it into the ride. Leg ticklers I believe were bought but never installed, for example. The point early on in the process where the windows were meant to be screens is another example. These things are much harder to solve and introduce retrospectively too.
I can see that leg ticklers wouldn't really work, you'd see them as you board before the lights go out (they're just flexible tubing). The screens, fog and all that are what's interesting, I wonder how much was actually installed before being removed or just mothballed.
There must be a solution to using the ride system to its full potential as a simulator ride. It's the designers' job to come up with a solution and make it work as an experience, but it would take money not a quick rehash with some actors. Also as far as I know (might be wrong) Simworx built it without VR in mind to be rolled out to other parks in the future. It would be a shame to waste the ride system which was by far the best thing about the ride in my opinion. -
18 minutes ago, Marc said:
Realistically Ghost train would struggle without VR IMO - you have too long sections with the train sat there not moving for it work without it without huge changes which probably wouldn’t be worth it.
I can’t see it opening this year - if we do hopefully have a vaccine against this in a years time I can’t see it being too much of an issue then.
The ride system was designed without VR and to have more on-board effects, so I'm sure there's a way to make it entertaining, you're right though they would struggle to fill the time
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I would love for them to do the decent thing and take the VR off, and redesign it as the simulator style ride it was arguably always meant to be. But it would have to be done properly not a rushed job, or it will never be entertaining. I imagine they'd wait for the Derren Brown contract to expire before they do that, meaning it might sit there SBNO in the meantime
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Nostalgia but you didn't do it? I dont understand.
Old Vampire did look way better though! -
Excellent video. No CGI or any of the tricks they usually pull, just a great video of the ride!
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If it just had more detail and a bit more going on then I'm sure the rustic look would look great. It just seems a bit featureless and odd at the moment
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The "revamped" Tomb Blaster is marginally better than the broken down version before, but not as good as when Tomb Blaster first opened and still a dull, naff attraction. The hype this revamp is getting is starting to get ridiculous. The new music is good, shame theres no great theme tune like before but it adds something at least. The 'story' thing adds nothing at all and is not what the ride needed.
The whole train looked bored. There's still loads not working and some cringey choices with some moments
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59 minutes ago, Glitch said:
@SteveJ really does have an agenda against people who get free tickets, well I guess a MAP once purchased is classed as a free ticket nowadays, unless you get the monthly, then you have to pay monthly.
I sure do, it's well known parks are keeping social media "influencers" on their good side by giving them free tickets or invites, either that or a back door relationship with the park managers (nothing serious obviously, just silly though). Or it's the other way around with enthusiasts trying to suck up to park management to get freebies.
The reason I care is it just overhypes things and gets fans to believe this stuff is special (it's just normal maintenance in most parks this size around the world). Or it becomes one big enthusiast clique instead of focussing on entertaining the public.
But I literally have no idea about Tomb V3 and will go in open minded of course
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8 hours ago, StevenVig said:
Judging by the below video of this ride, the lighting and sound engineers have done an absolutely stellar job
Judging by that video, they have managed to make a light turn on and off?
Seriously people have to go see these things for themselves. Don't listen to all these social media people who get free tickets to say good things and personally know the park managers. I remember Chessington Buzz overhyping the last Tomb revamp too. It took some time after the season started for the obvious to settle—that the ride was still terrible
The old Tomb music was brilliant, it was more the sound system that was botched not the music itself. There must be a reason theyve changed it, maybe to go in a darker direction. Not just someone trying to give Nick Hutson a break I hope. Be prepared for him to tell absolutely everybody on earth that he did the new music.
Whatever, I will go in with an open mind, I'm sure we would all love for Tomb to be an entertaining attraction again. Not just "better than before", because anything is better than before. -
1 hour ago, Stuntman707 said:
They can't have made it any worse than it was.
I agree, but "It's better than nothing" seems to be the saying for nearly every UK park now! Is it entertaining though, is it a good ride? That's what really matters. Like Vampire it should never have got into the state it was in
With stories in dark rides, much better to be entertaining and no literal story, than have a shoved in story but a dull attraction. To weave a new story through Tomb they'd have to do a lot of work, lot of budget and make it totally fresh. I'm expecting a video on some TVs and some signs, but Id love to be proved wrong! -
3 minutes ago, Glitch said:
From reports its a much better experience
I would be impressed if it could be any worse than the last revamp a couple years ago, which was also praised by the same bloggers as being much improved.
I'm not judging this revamp mind you, I havnt seen it for myself, I'm just saying this kind of hype over "changes" happens every year.
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High praise from random Twitter bloggers paid in free tickets to say good things about the park
Let's all wait to see what it's actually like in person. Who knows -
9 hours ago, Mark9 said:
My head immediately jumped straight to the Hollywood tour ride, The Chinese omnimover and Temple of the night hawk.
Errr, why? You could quite easily spend a whole day at Phantasialand and it be one of the most stellar parks you can visit in Europe, and not even notice those rides. They're just an anomaly really, whereas at Chessington Vampire is the biggest ride. There is absolutely no competition when it comes to value for money.
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3 hours ago, Marc said:
To be fair Vampires had more than just some Maplin LED’s thrown up at it
Just to clarify in that post I meant the ceiling floodlights that were before this, in reply to what Josh was saying about the state it was in before this revamp. The new lighting has had effort put in, actually the positioning is great, but what it's doing.. not so much
And although the repairs are much appreciated, those things about syncing the soundtrack & lighting, repairing the animatronic etc, it should never have lost sync in the first place or the organist been left like that so long. Probably been left broken longer than many people on this forum can remember! -
24 minutes ago, JoshC. said:
Wicker Man is a...strange comparison. I guess you've just chosen it because it's the most recent example of a Merlin coaster with theming in the station. But the station for Wicker Man is quite simple, no? The pre show is nice, but I think as a whole, the feeling of Vampire's station has always been better for a 'scary' family ride than Wicker Man.
Not just the most recent example, pretty much the only other themed coaster with a real pre ride experience at a UK Merlin park. Both built as family thrill coasters, Vampire doesnt have a separate room for its preshow but it's all the same kind of thing for its day. My point is that WM was very popular for its theme, few fans today would ever realise Vampire was once just as good if not better.
If Wicker Man had all its preshow/station decor stripped back to empty walls, the main feature left not working for years, the soundtrack "lost" and speakers left busted, all lighting removed and some Maplin LEDs rushed in, it wouldnt be acceptable. Only reason Vampire got away with it was because the decline happened gradually over 20 years.
Even far smaller parks in Europe look after their attractions much better than this -
1 hour ago, JoshC. said:
Even when Vampire was in its worst state, the station was still great. I might be in the minority who think that, but oh well...
Visually, it looked great - it still had a level of spookiness about it, the lighting was at worst okay and the music added something. Sure, it had been much better, but I still went through and thought 'hey, this is nice'. Obviously it's sad to have seen it in a weaker state, but in the there and now, I never exactly had a problem with it.
Hmm I really beg to differ though, I think it had lost all entertainment value by then and doubt any of the public would remember it much. An empty warehouse with an organ setpiece at the end and some B&Q floodlights. You may as well have had the station outside.
When a day ticket to Phantasialand costs almost the same as Chessington, is there really any excuse for how poor Vampire got? Imagine if Wicker Man ended up like that in the future (and Vampire's preshow was originally better than Wicker Man's too) and people just shrugged. Is that really what guests shell out for at a Merlin park?
Also, we have so much more opportunity available now than Chessington did in 1990, it's strange that something 30 years ago has not been improved on. But I suppose it's a credit to how good the original music and station were for the time.- Matt 236, Coaster and HermanTheGerman
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15 minutes ago, Ringo said:
Well that’s good news, in house tech are more likely to respond to feedback and make changes if possible.
Not in my experience (though I'm not speaking specifcally about Chessington). You'll usually always get better results from external designers— that's not because in house teams are necessarily bad or anything like that. But in-house teams usually have less resources, are pushed for time looking after the rest the park, and their perspective always skewed by working at the park day in day out (and influenced by wanting to impress their work mates rather than delivering to a client!). Anway, that's another discussion.
But, if you are listening to feedback Chessington, and I do appreciate the effort, Id love for the lighting to be less totally randomised, because the effect just gets numbed under the "hey look at me!" DJ mash. I get you're going for a more colourful style, but if it built up more with the music and didnt try to use every colour under the sun at once, it could be much better.
Derren Brown's Ghost Train: Rise of the Demon
in The Past
Posted
An expensive SBNO ride costs a huge amount less than an expensive open ride with high running costs.