SteveJ
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Posts posted by SteveJ
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4 hours ago, JoshC. said:
It's easy to look across the pond and think the grass is greener on the other side. And in fairness, in many cases, it is. But let's not go saying that the UK parks are doing worse than the likes of Bobbejaanland, who have only just added a new coaster after 8 years, and is generally an abysmal place to be in.
They're doing one count better than Chessington then, which still hasnt got a new coaster after 15 years! I may discover whether it's abysmal or not but I feel more inclined to go visit parks like that than most UK parks at the moment. All down to value for money.
4 hours ago, JoshC. said:Merlin were ahead of the curve though. Thorpe were on the IP train in 2009 with Saw and it was hugely successful. HUGELY.
It was a bumper year for the park, but then why have all their other IP attempts at Thorpe since been such big flops? The entire park was in a different situation. They're now feeling the pinch after years of too much focus on short fads instead of long term redevelopment and improvement.
On the subject of IPs. Merlin have just tried to suggest in their interim results that its Legoland performances have been disappointing because the Lego Movie 2 didnt bring in the extra guests expected. But they'll still build more and more Lego Movie attractions anyway, becoming even more reliant on the performance of other media rather than build the quality of their own parks.
IP popularity can be used to boost parks in the short term but overusing it like Merlin do will just come back to bite you. -
When this is what we ended up with, you think back to all the rubbish that was spoken about DBGT on its launch. So many enthusiasts coming out telling everyone it was near enough better than Universal, the best attraction "the UK" had ever produced, "that I couldnt help but clap when it finished". I even had some enthusiast friends who were scorned for not having done it yet as if it was a duty to go see it the moment it opened, as if Thorpe Park was a charity and you had an obligation to support the greatest ride ever made. Honestly...
All this was said about the original version too. I wouldnt be surprised if all those people were just getting free tickets from Thorpe to say whatever the park wanted. -
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7 hours ago, StevenVig said:
Thing is The UK really doesn't make that much money for the company, in comparison to international parks. There's a market for them to tap into across the world, and it works (apparently), so I do get why their focus is on international.
That's not how big companies work. As a huge multinational (with more parks), they have a much bigger pot of money to spend on their parks than when they just had the 2 or 3 parks in the UK. More parks= more money overall, more money for each park (unless they're not running their business well).
Tussauds only had Chessington and Madame Tussauds as big players when they wre installing things like Vampire, Bubble Works, 5th DImension, Dragon River. It was hugely successful, the most successful 10 years the park ever had after that.
Those are exactly the kind of new attractions the park is in desperate need of now. Yet we havnt had a proper new ride added (not a replacement but an expansion) since a disk-o in 2010.
It should be proportional. Chessington is not a giant park, it doesnt need a giant expansion like their big international parks. It just needs to not be totally neglected anymore. The problem is more Merlin's business model, they go for the easiest option to make money with the lease investment, which is the midways.
They probably wouldnt even be in theme parks or attractions if they had their way, 'too expensive' in their eyes. It's just where Nick Varney ended up. -
42 minutes ago, JoshC. said:
I agree it's a shame they're not doing anything else (especially since there were plans being tossed around, but nothing happened), but let's not kick the park for responding to what people wanted in the first place..
Put it this way, I'm kicking the park for only responding to what people want when it gets them easy money. Any other park reaching 40, even small ones, would at least do something and make an event of it, bring people in. This is surely the main thing people want when they ask for 40th celebreations. But as expected, it was all cancelled bar the merch.
Other than that, it is funny how people will spend money to buy a logo for something they never knew or did, although I udnerstand people like to collect this stuff. Nostalgia sells. I might as well go buy a t shirt for a 1981 post punk US tour that I wasnt born for just because I like the record.
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It looks good for some anniversary merchandise but what a shame all the park are doing to celebrate is grab some extra cash off fans.
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I don't think Black Buccaneer is going to return this season and they're just trying to brush it under the carpet. Maybe it won't be returning ever. Painting it silver seems to mean it has some engineering problems due to its age, just like Blade at Alton Towers. The difference is Blade actually got money for a refurbishment granted and it was re-engineered over winter.
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Someone pointed out to me it's possible the reason it tries to 'tell the story' in a way that just doesnt suit the running of the attraction could be that this is what the IP holder stipulated, rather than Merlin. Another big issue with having attractions based on IPs, dictating things that aren't realistic for an attraciton
Although from their track record it's possible it was a big oversight on MMM's part too, but I dont know.
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On 4/3/2019 at 11:37 AM, Ivsetti said:
The first link in this comment above also has numerous other really insightful things regarding the park's marketing strategy to meet that massive 110K target (in fairness, to be operating as many rides as AT and TP do they need the visitor numbers behind them or they'd be operating at a massive loss).
Do you mean to suggest Thorpe Park made a loss by not meeting that visitor target? I dont know how well they did that year but I'm sure the additional annual cost of operating The Swarm was relatively small
Parks make most their profit from in-park expenditure on food and retail rather than tickets. Thorpe built new coasters in quick succession in the 2000s to increase the capacity of the park and increase the draw, to bring numbers way up, but eventually you reach a plateau.
I think Merlin found that they'd already reached that point when Swarm didn't reach much higher. However it probably wouldn't have meant the Swarm was not financially viable, it just meant it didn't increase attendance to the heights they (ambitiously) wanted.
I would argue they spent too much focus on endless big new rides without thinking about the park on the whole. It wasnt sustainable and you end up with today's poor value for money putting off returning guests. They have actually increased park attendance without increasing the space much, ending up with overcrowding and long queues.- HermanTheGerman and PJ.
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I actually really like that moments are in complete darkness, it's been a long time since a UK attraction has been passed off like that, but the amount of people being sent through an open corridor in a hurry (encouraging you to run) sounds like it could easily cause problems like that. If it was a bit different and used different techniques the darkness could work well.
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On 4/8/2019 at 2:46 PM, Glitch said:
In terms of safety however... I would personally like to go on Black Buccaneer when it's ready rather than a ride that's been put up overnight by potentially tired engineers in the dark without rigorous safety measures.
None of the things you mention have anything to do with either Black Buccaneer not being ready, the way either park assemble their rides, or this new ride being assembled in one day.
"Tired engineers in the dark" will make no difference. Both rides have to get the exact same safety certification in order to open. Assembling a ride slowly makes no difference to its safety, knowing what you're doing and attention to detail makes the difference. If it didn't get the certificate, then it would have to be redone anyway. -
Well here's a story, I actually enjoyed Walking Dead! But I don't think it will be successful (and apparently hasnt been). The reason is, entertainment has once again been sidelined in favour of marketing formula. The formula is broken. "Every ride must have a world first or an IP" is broken.
The ride before this had a wider appeal and attracted an age group much more fitting for the experience. X No Way Out was never designed to be a super scary ride and it never could be. It had a scary edge because of the weirdness and darkness, but it was more than that and could be enjoyed by older kids and young teenagers.
By making it themed to a violent horror show, it puts off people who don't like it. Those who do like it will be disappointed, because it's just a dressed up family coaster with some corridors. And those who've never seen the show may be put off by the promise of "actors touching you" and 'extreme' horror (which doesnt really exist). So who are you left with? Who is this ride for?
Once again the IP formula shoots the park in the foot. Add to that how poorly designed the entrance and surrounding area is means nobody can find it. So nobody's going in! The ugly barbed wire opposite the sorry remains of Octopus Garden and a big cartoon sign saying "Poop deck" is just the most hilarious thing Ive ever seen. Possibly worse than Legoland's Haunted House as worst Merlin entrance ever.
The preshow is total garbage. But after that, the simple fact that something happens during the ride now (like was always intended to) suddenly makes this a fun ride. X was calling out for this for about 20 years! It's insane that it took this long. We now have animations and moments during the stopping points, which creates a memorable ride. The sound design is fantastic too!
But again this appeals better to a younger audience than Walking Dead fans. The effects are mostly good and very well timed (although a couple are pretty hokey and I dont like the TVs). This would have worked really well as a family haunted ride, but people expecting extreme horro will just laugh.
I enjoyed it, but it should have been done properly. Shouldnt have been IP, should have happened 20 years ago and should have used the preshow rooms instead of just endless corridors. Then it could have been a family staple for Thorpe Park, rather than another Merlin 5 year failure. -
To be fair to Merlin, I think in this case the ride's closure is not their fault. "Apprently" it's Vekoma having some quality control troubles. I have no idea personally but am told reliably.
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I managed to do Haunted House before it shut for the near future. How this ever got approved shows how little Merlin care at the top (theyve had over 5 years planning this ride and it's turned out THIS badly?)
What was already the Pathway From Hell now had this new ride with its entrance/exit backing on to it, seriously the most congested part the park! It's insane. A lot has been said about the 'warehouse' already but seriously, it's shockingly bad. You see the big black warehouse from the moment you look out at the view from The Beginning. Walking towards the ride, you see the box long before you get a proper view of the 'themed' front (which is also very cheap and boring). The "children wont see it" excuse is nonsense
The queue is one of the worst cattlepen queues Ive ever seen. The development has totally obliterated what used to be a much needed landscaped buffer space in this part the park. Once looked very nice with the stream running into the lake, lots of models and the train skirting around. Not anymore!
The actual madhouse ride is fun and all the kids have a good laugh, which is great but largely thanks to the classic appeal of a madhouse. It's so much better than a drop tower would have been! The party theme is fun and I think it's great they added a colourful twist, but there's absolutely no surprises for kids.
All the parents were gearing their kids up for a spooky adventure, only to be greeted with en empty room and some TVs. The preshow is weirdly long considering nothing actually happens. We have a boogie with some disco balls but it reeks of "all the effects planned for this area were cut".
There's nothing remotely spooky about the attraction and you feel like you're just in a metal box the entire time. Maybe this won't be so obvious for kids, but design this lazy it takes away so much fun to be had for kids in a good dark ride.
The rest the park has made a steady effort to clean up and improve this year, some parts look very refreshing. But on the whole the place still feels tired and soulless. Everything is shoved in. Music will randomly fade out and change as you're walking through an area, suddenly drawing your attention to it. There's so little actual Lego or animations now, other than in Miniland.
A very different park to what it used to be. I'm sure there are only going to be more giant warehouses added filled with TVs in the years to come. -
On 4/13/2019 at 6:23 PM, JoshuaA said:
the ride itself is probably on its last legs and the pyramid probably wouldn't be viable to re-use..
I dont know of anything to suggest they're knackered. In theory they could keep going for a long time but who knows. It works best as a family ride and they skuppered that recently, as a thrill ride it's rubbish.
It could go back to being a family ride after the stupid contract runs out but the whole thing is just awkwardly placed in the middle of the park. They could do with redeveloping the whole area like you say. -
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Yeah, the rust & ponchos thing is well known for Inferno and nothing to do with vinyls "recently renewed". A poncho for falling vinyl? Does that even make sense anyway!
Anyway, what's a bit of vinyl flapping around going to do even if it was true, they don't given you protection for all the sunglasses, etc that fly off coasters most days. These are very lightweight small thingsI once did Inferno in the rusty rain on first day opening, it stained my jeans forever, it was pretty funny though
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With a bit of love I think Inferno could get back to looking pretty spot on! Ok it wasnt supposed to be much of a heavy themed ride but it was really nicely done for what it was and fairly simple to get it back.
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6 hours ago, Kerfuffle said:
it may not be the original (boo!)
Here's a fun fact, that 'queue ambiant track' that YouTube peoplez often say is the original actually was added in about 1999 ish I remember. It was fun but really horrible, I remember the screaming women, whip cracking and heavy breathing, don't think that would sit well with families today, haha!
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4 hours ago, Nosferatu said:
The organ track is being played on its own without the backing track, so you;re only getting half of the sound.
Plus the backing track is the one that has all the bass, so the music sounds tinny.
No the whole track is playing and has all the parts, as far as I know it's literally the original track but without the zoning yet?
The sound in there has sounded thin for years. We can't know for sure why, it could be a number of reasons, the park just need to sort it. Sad how it got this poorly maintained and opens year on year in such a state. -
11 minutes ago, StevenVig said:
Difference is this is actually trying to tell a story, there was absolutely no story in Hocus Pocus, which meant a free flowing walk through worked. It was just a lot of crazy lights, goblins and some effects (when they worked). If you had ROTB as a free flow walk through, it would make no sense, and for people like myself, who obviously haven't read the books, I would never have understood even the basic premise of the story if it wasn't stop and watch
Yeah it tries to tell a story, but like I said it just wasn't worth it, it slows it down too much. There are many ways to do a walkaround and thread a theme through it, and build up to an ending. It should just be an interactive experience with every room a bit different until it builds to an ending. Maybe have the preshow, free flow and then stop guests in a finale room. Whichever works best.
The way Room on the Broom does it at the moment (and the tiny rooms) just didn't entertain. They should have looked at the space and the limited throughput, and thought 'ok let's thread the story differently'.
Hocus Pocus Hall got really run down because it hadnt been looked after properly for 15 years, it was rubbish by the time it closed. But it was still more entertaining because it just let kids run around and press buttons, look in windows and sit on a fart chair. Rather than stand and watch a small TV or a white room with one thing moving in the corner.
It looked more colourful and detailed, it had its time but now its replacement is very bland for most part. Although I liked the new preshow better and the 'dragon' was a bit more memorable for kids.
Derren Brown's Ghost Train: Rise of the Demon
in The Past
Posted
Thinking back to my first time on it, I made sure to go in with an open mind. I had no idea what to expect, the park had done a good job of keeping it all secret and ambiguous, but once we sat on the train things started to go very quickly downhill. I couldnt believe this was actually the ride, with a complete absence of any mystery, suspense (or Derren Brown). Just the same old 'Merlin horror attraction' tropes that reminded me of Saw Alive or the Dungeons, or Sub Terra.
When we got to the scene, I was feeling more excited, the set got large and it felt like we were in for a big moment. But it turned out to be more lame shouty acting and an underwhelming effect. Could have been great, but wasnt timed/lit right, and there wasnt much more to it—I mean we all knew there was gonna be a train crash as soon as it started. Is that really all they could think of?
And then, it was straight back to the VR boredom of the first half. Suddenly it was all over and everyone awkwardly, silently (no spontaneous applause as had been said!) shuffled to the exit.
I wondered if I'd done the same ride as everyone who was raving about it. Was I just being cynical? Id gone in ready to be surprised and would have really enjoyed a good, new dark ride. Very strange experience, that's my personal memory of it all anyway.