Inferno

I wonder if it’s something that became a victim of its own success, and because of that just spiralled out of control over the years. Many parks can be busy but still have fast moving queues, and actually to be honest if theoretically Merlin somehow abolished RAP (and fastrack) all together, you could almost argue that queuing would barely be an issue for anyone at all, even on busy days, because the single queue would simply just keep moving at a pretty fast pace, at least on the high capacity rides anyway. I wonder if the issue is that over the years RAP and Fastrack have made standby queues at UK Merlin parks appear unbearable on peak days, causing RAP to appear more essential…. Which in turn causes queues to worsen…. Which in turn causes RAP to appear even more essential… and so on. Just a thought. But I do think this idea that standby queues on peak days can be silly might be the reason RAP is relied upon by so many.

Ah so that’s what this is about. I’ve seen the topic come up a few times on social media but didn’t really know what the reason was. Please forgive my ignorance - I mean no offence at all by any of this. I’m just interested and intrigued by it all. I also fully accept that not everyone’s needs are visible, and I’m privileged enough to never have needed to use a RAP. RAP absolutely baffles me. One thing that has always come to my mind is that there simply can not be that many people who find it impossible to wait in the normal queue because they can’t handle crowds. There just can’t be. I know nothing of the subject, but I really struggle to accept the sheer number of RAP users are genuine. The percentage of RAP users seems incredibly high compared to non RAP users. People who have difficulty with crowds would still have to deal with the worst crowds throughout the day - entrance, security, food, pathways etc. queues often offer a break from the busy and chaotic crowds. Of course there will be a good number of people who struggle with queueing etc, and I’m very pleased that arrangements are in place for them, but I’ve always been baffled at the sheer number of people who qualify for the pass. I’m convinced that the system has been utterly abused by selfish people who claim to have priority over others. It just has to have been. And that isn’t fair on the other customers, especially those with a genuine need to use the RAP. I have to say that, although I don’t fully understand the subject, I am pleased to see changes being made. I really hope it’s for the best, and it goes some way to fixing the system which is very clearly not working. Enforcing something like this must be very difficult. I really hope whatever they have done has weeded out some of the abusers and doesn’t affect the genuine RAP users. As Benin said - it can’t go on like it has been.

What does everyone think about Rumba's fate then? There have been people saying the rafts are still stripped down and lined up along the fence in their usual winter spot. I thought this was always the case around this time of year, and nothing out of the ordinary, but I suppose it could be the end for Rumba? With all the cost cutting, I suppose it would make sense to ditch an old ride like Rumba given the number of staff it needs, and apparently the amount of energy required to run it. That said, if they were planning on ditching it, why go through the effort of removing all the boats and stripping them down? I expect it'll be open again this year, even if it is on reduced hours and only during the summer months (except school trip season). They might as well keep the capacity there while there's nothing lined up to replace it, unless money is just too tight.

Does anyone realistically think this project will ever happen now? I’m starting to think it might be unlikely considering the ongoing issues at Merlin. I’m also unsure how popular the area would be. Stage shows have never really been all that popular throughout the years at Thorpe. Now that entertainments aren’t a priority for Merlin, perhaps this development has been reconsidered. Clearly the plan was very much in place for it all. The plans were drawn up in detail and the application went through the council. The park even teased the “last beach party” as being in 2025 on that cryptic poster. You’d think the development would have started by now wouldn’t you… although I suppose it could still happen during the open season. I can’t help but think though that the money would be better spent by putting it towards more of a proper “Main Street” sort of setup. A bigger and nicer investment that will stand the test of time. Not specifically a Main Street, but that sort of thing. Rather than this more low budget development.

So I’ve just been having a look around at prices etc for trips this year, and have noticed something about the prices Merlin are charging for their “short breaks”. It looks like the prices aren’t quite as ridiculous for some dates this year, but I think they’re still too much. Having done my usual bits of spot checking etc, I’ve just done a quick comparison test on a super off peak 1 night / 2 day stay on the cheapest dates I can find, and for 2 adults and 1 toddler to stay at ATH on 22 March it’s £368. That’s very good for Alton Towers, but considering that’s the super off peak price I still think it’s a lot for what it is. By comparison with the notoriously expensive Disney, if you go end of Jan next year it’s £419 at Santa Fe, although to be fair AT aren’t booking that far in advance, so for fairness sake if you go start of Feb this year it’s £477 to stay at Santa Fe. Bearing in mind this is entry to 2 parks until well in to the evening too, and the prices per night improve if you stay longer. I have always struggled to understand why Alton Towers hotels are so expensive even in super off peak, and have yet to stay in one during the open season. Does anyone know what the occupancy rates are at AT? It would be interesting to know if they regularly sell out, or if their prices are kept high despite low occupancy.

Something that I often find weird is how much the height restrictions can differ between similar rides at different parks. For example, to ride Marauders Mayhem or Dobble Teaparty you have to be 1.1M tall, but Mad Hatter’s tea party at DLP, essentially the same ride, can literally be ridden by a newborn baby as there are no restrictions. That same newborn baby could also ride Pirates of the Caribbean with its drops and spooky scenes, but would have to wait until they’re 0.9M to ride Curse at Alton Manor. Similarly Runaway Mine Train at Alton Towers has a min height of 1.3 meters, but the likes of the far more intense Wickerman and Big Thunder Mountain is only 1.2. Although Wicker does have individual restraints rather than the single bar between 2 people on runaway and BTM Tower of Terror can surprisingly be ridden by someone just 102CM tall. So most 4 year old children can ride that before they’re allowed on the teacups at AT & TP. Is anyone else aware of any bizarre height restrictions, or any of the reasoning behind some of them? For the record I’m not arguing against any of these restrictions, clearly there’s a reason for them, I just find it an odd and interesting quirk.

Although I’ve been excited for this since the rumours started all those months ago, I think it’s only just hitting me now that we are actually getting a Universal park here at home… I cannot wait to see it all take shape. It’s an interesting time for the UK theme park industry isn’t it - what terrible timing for Merlin to be on the ropes.

I agree it is a huge shame that there is quite literally nothing going on. Although to be fair over the last decade there has been a lot of rubbish advertised as “new” - the various year-round mazes and some of the events for example. The absence of those sort of things isn’t that bad in my opinion, and realistically something new isn’t needed every year. Not many parks do that do they. In recent years they have also made a lot of improvements to the areas other than the rides - the toilets to name one example. Thorpe is probably one of the (if not THE) best Merlin park in terms of general upkeep. I agree though that it is a shame there doesn’t appear to be anything at all happening again. It’s been a few years now since they’ve been able to boast anything notably new. I wonder if Colossus will finally be finished in the next couple of months at least? Despite all the cuts to spending at Merlin I’d at least expect that to be done before opening, as well as Zodoac getting sorted. I wonder if the beach project will ever happen now? I can’t help but think the money would be better put towards a larger project.

I’m wondering if maybe they’ll hold out for X to finally be removed. Its plot combined with Slammer’s one is quite large. It becomes even larger if they also decided to remove the tent restaurant area, and becomes massive if they also demolish the Ghost Train building. That would leave a huge space right in the middle of the park for something big.

YES ! I love it too! I really don’t understand why it’s so overlooked 🤷‍♂️ Fantastic ride that doesn’t get the love it deserves!

Ah love these. Unfortunately my lists are very short nowadays, but I've had a fair year theme park wise (considering how life is now!) Thorpe Park x1 Alton Towers x1 Legoland Windsor x1 Disneyland Park Paris x3 Walt Disney Studios Paris x2 I do miss the days when I had huge lists, and I was at Thorpe & Towers 10-20 times each! Sad to have not been to any fireworks events or halloween this year, for the first time in... I don't know how long. Still, could be worse. Paulton's next year for the first time in 20 years!

The security queue is an interesting one. I've had some thoughts on it - I always wondered how other parks, DLP for example, can handle vastly larger crowds everyday with minimal queues of just a few minutes. Yes I know they have a far larger budget, but the point still stands. I think it's got to be because parks like Thorpe only actually need the security point staffed for a couple of hours each morning. After 11am the workload drops off almost entirely. It's not feasible to employ a large team of security for 2-3hrs every morning. Other parks have a steady flow of people throughout the day outside of the 9-10 peak, so a large team is justified and can be working throughout the day. I think Thorpe are limited in that they only actually need staff there for a couple of hours, which realistically isn't something they can recruit for, so they're settling for a small team. I preferred the old system of spot checks, but I suppose after the spate of violence and the stabbing that happened a few years ago it has become more needed. To be fair, even DLP's security is purely theatre. The bags go through scanners and you walk through the detector, but realistically it is very much a quick in-and-out. Perhaps they can gear it up if required, but keep it relaxed most days? (could be an option for TP going forward).

There is apparently a poster inside Trailers with an image of Ghost Train, with the wording “Ghost Train - The last train” underneath. I assume this means it will close at the end of the season. Time will tell I suppose. Photo from Theme Park Guide’s live blog - https://live.themeparkguide.co.uk/?live=FN25

This is a perfect summary of my thoughts as well. It’s quite an interesting subject really, because now that they’ve chosen to go down this new route of highly themed walkthroughs and dance shows etc I imagine it would be difficult to change course. The Asylum, Experiment 10 and Cabin in the Woods are examples of excellent Thorpe mazes in my opinion at least - but I imagine they would be poorly received if they “came back” exactly as they were, even if they were still “free” (or included in the event ticket price as I prefer to say!). I think now people have grown used to what a Thorpe scare maze “is”, and something like Asylum would probably now be seen as lazy, as it had next to no theming and just 2 stock songs playing in the queue, even though it could be an extremely intense experience. I also wonder if these sort of “more basic” attractions won’t be able to compete now adays due to the need for things to look good for social media etc, especially with Universal a few years away, Thorpe need to have impressive looking attractions I suppose so they can directly compete with HHN. I expect however, the real reason is that they need to justify the prices they’re charging for a run through, so it needs to look like it’s worth paying for, more so than the need for it to be scary. As you say Cal, times have changed I suppose.

Unfortunately I agree with the above posts - other than the night rides, I just can’t get excited for FN anymore, and the teaser trailer does nothing for me at all. These new style trailers they’ve been doing over the past few years are so vague, and rarely bear any resemblance to the event what so ever. FN is massively successful, so it would be wrong to suggest that the event has lost its way. I suppose it’s more accurate to say that its new format with highly themed walkthroughs and more passive scares (at sky high prices) just doesn’t appeal to my tastes. If this new scare zone is going to be similar to Swarm Invasion however then I’m not sure it’s just me that it won’t appeal to… it was genuinely crap, and honestly was barely recognisable as a scare zone. I have to say as well, the relentless flow of throwback scenes is tedious. Clearly the past has been very much left in the past by this new direction - it’s best to leave the old stuff behind and move on since realistically FN isn’t about out and out scares anymore. I miss the genuine scare opportunities that the mazes used to offer the actors, and as mentioned above I too really miss the ride overlays, even if it is just a bit of nice dispatch music. I miss the simplicity of it all - not long ago the mazes were designed to be scary, and elsewhere in the park efforts were made to level the experience up with different music and simple smoke machines etc. Although to be fair the lighting across the park is very good now isn’t it. Having said that, I’m very aware that the event hasn’t even started yet this year, so who knows, perhaps some of this has been considered and addressed. I look forward to hearing about it! I hope it’s a successful year for Thorpe this FN, and I’m pleased to see that so many people do seem to love this new style of scare event. I’m sure it will be well received.

Anyone know anything about what's happening with Zodiac? It's been closed since early June, with not a lot seemingly happening with it... Could Zodiac be going the same way as Enterprise? She's incredibly old now and frankly has had a very long life! There hasn't really been any news on it at all. If they do fix Zodiac, I hope they peel off the old branding off the top of each gondola.

Someone walked past me the other day in a cloud of vape smoke that bizarrely smelled just like a Merlin urinal. The smell of bubblegum just isn't the same for me since Merlin use it in their bogs!

To be fair, I have to wonder, is it that dire? Please don't get me wrong, there have been layoffs etc, which is truly awful for everyone affected (and everyone left behind tbh). The parks definitely aren't what they once were either, with reduced offerings, poor food, expensive admission and merch, and all round just shabbiness. Clearly things are not in a good way at Merlin, especially compared with the last decade or so. However.. The parks are still busy. Yes, attendance seems to be down, but it's not like it's completely dried up, and it's definitely not like they haven't invested in anything for years, as is happening elsewhere. Merlin are actually still investing. They are building numerous rides and lands, right now, in UK parks. Alton are getting new things for Scarefest, neglected rides have been re-opened, and they have had a new flat this year. We've just had the country's tallest and fastest coaster open at Thorpe. That's massive investment. Of course there are serious issues... but there are also good things happening, and the parks do seem to be thriving. They are also now not beholden to shareholders, and the idiotic execs that ran the company in to the ground have now all abandoned ship. The relentless pursuit of profit at any cost has finally come to an end - this can only be a good thing. What I'm trying to say is - it doesn't feel like Oakwood for example, which was all but abandoned towards the end. The Merlin parks do seem to be busy, and although I know this is contentious, they are receiving investment, all be it not on the scale it once was. I am hoping they continue investing, and guests continue to come through the gates, and hopefully soon they can turn things around.

Not a bad shout that Josh! Agreed, a retheme of twdtr would be a cost effective way to bring something new to Thorpe wouldn't it. I'd have thought we would have seen some marketing by now though? Unfortunately I think next year might be another quiet one (although we're still riding the wave from Hyperia's opening so not complaining!) Perhaps end of next season we’ll start seeing ads for something new. An X rethrme or perhaps a new flat ride since Zodiac seems to have died. I wonder if there are any plans at the moment for the next big ride. Or if it’s too soon

Interesting! I agree with the above comments about dark rides. Ghost Train robbed us of the dark ride we were supposed to have. I hope they do have another go at one at some point because I think the park really would benefit from one. As for the immediate future though, I agree, this has got to be the end of the line for it now hasn't it? Merlin have £0, and Ghost Train must cost a fortune to run in staff costs compared to other rides. It simply can't be worth the money to keep it going every day. I am sad that we never got the groundbreaking dark ride that it was supposed to be, but realistically it was a swing and a miss right from day one, and never really hit the mark, even after the re-theme. An ambitious but expensive miss-step, followed by a good attempt at a re-theme given what was available, and the bizarre investment in the adjoining cafe and shop later on after it was a proven flop - it's just never really worked, and must have been a huge drain on resources and money right from the start, despite the best efforts of the amazing cast. If it is closing, I honestly don't think many would even notice next season... Such a shame.

It’s quite a sad situation really. Caused, in my opinion at least, by the previous leadership and their unsustainable obsession with only investing in something if it would guarantee a direct and immediate return. Now across the business there are many expensive things to pay for, at the worst possible time given how many UK parks are struggling. What a rubbish time for everyone working at Merlin. I really hope they can turn it around soon for everyone’s sake.

Those prices are outrageous. But then I suppose prices for everything are outrageous now, so 🤷‍♂️

How have the queue times been at Chessington? Perhaps the demand isn't really there this season? (I have no idea) Attendance feels like it's lower in general at Towers and Thorpe this year. Don't know about Lego and Chessington.

Got to be Thorpe for me these days - they have had quite the turnaround over the last few years.

It's a very interesting one that's been touched on before in other topics. Apart from the excellent Wickerman, they've spent vast amounts of money over the last several years replacing the Haunted House, Hex, Sub Terra, Nemesis, Skyride and Ripsaw with... The Haunted House, Hex, Sub Terra, Nemesis, Skyride and Ripsaw... Yes they're all updated and in a couple of cases very different, but they're all essentially the same thing at the end of the day, and it's difficult to argue with that. Someone who last visited Alton Towers in 2014, over a decade ago, would realistically not see a lot of difference in terms of ride offering if they visited again tomorrow. In fact, there are fewer rides on offer. Don't get me wrong - I think its a very good thing that Skyride was saved, I think Curse is a vast improvement on Duel, and Nemesis' renewal and tart-up was a good thing to secure its future, but I agree with what you've said above. Realistically, to most people at least, none of it is truly new. It's neatly all been (granted, expensive) maintenance to existing attractions to keep them running... And the trouble is, they're not finished yet either. Galactica is crying out for a refurbishment and retime... so could that be yet another (all be it badly needed) large investment that needs doing instead of something truly new? It wouldn't surprise me, as it will probably be deemed worth investing in rather than scrapping. I think the truth is that Merlin has run nearly everything in to the ground, with little thought for the future. Although we all rode the wave of Merlin's success a decade ago, with new things coming in fairly regularly, their short-term thinking and obsession with only ever investing in a 'sure moneymaker' to satisfy the shareholders one year at a time has landed Towers here. The money that should have been spent on refurbishments and maintenance over the years was instead given to the top execs and the shareholders, and now everything's timed out at the same time, and is hoovering up all the money that would otherwise be available to invest in to new attractions etc. I'm very sad about the situation Alton Towers has been put in to by such poor leadership in the past. Clearly there is a lot of money being spent at Towers on getting things back on track. The recent renovations have mostly been excellent. But with more expensive fix-ups surely to come, and ongoing problems with reliability and aging rides elsewhere (Rita, Galactica, etc), they're not out of the woods yet. I hope there will be news soon on something truly new and exciting coming to Towers. They just can't keep replacing or re-theming everything for ever - even Disney have accepted that!