Inferno

There is apparently a poster inside Trailers with an image of Ghost Train, with the wording “Ghost Train - The last train” underneath. I assume this means it will close at the end of the season. Time will tell I suppose. Photo from Theme Park Guide’s live blog - https://live.themeparkguide.co.uk/?live=FN25

This is a perfect summary of my thoughts as well. It’s quite an interesting subject really, because now that they’ve chosen to go down this new route of highly themed walkthroughs and dance shows etc I imagine it would be difficult to change course. The Asylum, Experiment 10 and Cabin in the Woods are examples of excellent Thorpe mazes in my opinion at least - but I imagine they would be poorly received if they “came back” exactly as they were, even if they were still “free” (or included in the event ticket price as I prefer to say!). I think now people have grown used to what a Thorpe scare maze “is”, and something like Asylum would probably now be seen as lazy, as it had next to no theming and just 2 stock songs playing in the queue, even though it could be an extremely intense experience. I also wonder if these sort of “more basic” attractions won’t be able to compete now adays due to the need for things to look good for social media etc, especially with Universal a few years away, Thorpe need to have impressive looking attractions I suppose so they can directly compete with HHN. I expect however, the real reason is that they need to justify the prices they’re charging for a run through, so it needs to look like it’s worth paying for, more so than the need for it to be scary. As you say Cal, times have changed I suppose.

Unfortunately I agree with the above posts - other than the night rides, I just can’t get excited for FN anymore, and the teaser trailer does nothing for me at all. These new style trailers they’ve been doing over the past few years are so vague, and rarely bear any resemblance to the event what so ever. FN is massively successful, so it would be wrong to suggest that the event has lost its way. I suppose it’s more accurate to say that its new format with highly themed walkthroughs and more passive scares (at sky high prices) just doesn’t appeal to my tastes. If this new scare zone is going to be similar to Swarm Invasion however then I’m not sure it’s just me that it won’t appeal to… it was genuinely crap, and honestly was barely recognisable as a scare zone. I have to say as well, the relentless flow of throwback scenes is tedious. Clearly the past has been very much left in the past by this new direction - it’s best to leave the old stuff behind and move on since realistically FN isn’t about out and out scares anymore. I miss the genuine scare opportunities that the mazes used to offer the actors, and as mentioned above I too really miss the ride overlays, even if it is just a bit of nice dispatch music. I miss the simplicity of it all - not long ago the mazes were designed to be scary, and elsewhere in the park efforts were made to level the experience up with different music and simple smoke machines etc. Although to be fair the lighting across the park is very good now isn’t it. Having said that, I’m very aware that the event hasn’t even started yet this year, so who knows, perhaps some of this has been considered and addressed. I look forward to hearing about it! I hope it’s a successful year for Thorpe this FN, and I’m pleased to see that so many people do seem to love this new style of scare event. I’m sure it will be well received.

Anyone know anything about what's happening with Zodiac? It's been closed since early June, with not a lot seemingly happening with it... Could Zodiac be going the same way as Enterprise? She's incredibly old now and frankly has had a very long life! There hasn't really been any news on it at all. If they do fix Zodiac, I hope they peel off the old branding off the top of each gondola.

Someone walked past me the other day in a cloud of vape smoke that bizarrely smelled just like a Merlin urinal. The smell of bubblegum just isn't the same for me since Merlin use it in their bogs!

To be fair, I have to wonder, is it that dire? Please don't get me wrong, there have been layoffs etc, which is truly awful for everyone affected (and everyone left behind tbh). The parks definitely aren't what they once were either, with reduced offerings, poor food, expensive admission and merch, and all round just shabbiness. Clearly things are not in a good way at Merlin, especially compared with the last decade or so. However.. The parks are still busy. Yes, attendance seems to be down, but it's not like it's completely dried up, and it's definitely not like they haven't invested in anything for years, as is happening elsewhere. Merlin are actually still investing. They are building numerous rides and lands, right now, in UK parks. Alton are getting new things for Scarefest, neglected rides have been re-opened, and they have had a new flat this year. We've just had the country's tallest and fastest coaster open at Thorpe. That's massive investment. Of course there are serious issues... but there are also good things happening, and the parks do seem to be thriving. They are also now not beholden to shareholders, and the idiotic execs that ran the company in to the ground have now all abandoned ship. The relentless pursuit of profit at any cost has finally come to an end - this can only be a good thing. What I'm trying to say is - it doesn't feel like Oakwood for example, which was all but abandoned towards the end. The Merlin parks do seem to be busy, and although I know this is contentious, they are receiving investment, all be it not on the scale it once was. I am hoping they continue investing, and guests continue to come through the gates, and hopefully soon they can turn things around.

Not a bad shout that Josh! Agreed, a retheme of twdtr would be a cost effective way to bring something new to Thorpe wouldn't it. I'd have thought we would have seen some marketing by now though? Unfortunately I think next year might be another quiet one (although we're still riding the wave from Hyperia's opening so not complaining!) Perhaps end of next season we’ll start seeing ads for something new. An X rethrme or perhaps a new flat ride since Zodiac seems to have died. I wonder if there are any plans at the moment for the next big ride. Or if it’s too soon

Interesting! I agree with the above comments about dark rides. Ghost Train robbed us of the dark ride we were supposed to have. I hope they do have another go at one at some point because I think the park really would benefit from one. As for the immediate future though, I agree, this has got to be the end of the line for it now hasn't it? Merlin have £0, and Ghost Train must cost a fortune to run in staff costs compared to other rides. It simply can't be worth the money to keep it going every day. I am sad that we never got the groundbreaking dark ride that it was supposed to be, but realistically it was a swing and a miss right from day one, and never really hit the mark, even after the re-theme. An ambitious but expensive miss-step, followed by a good attempt at a re-theme given what was available, and the bizarre investment in the adjoining cafe and shop later on after it was a proven flop - it's just never really worked, and must have been a huge drain on resources and money right from the start, despite the best efforts of the amazing cast. If it is closing, I honestly don't think many would even notice next season... Such a shame.

It’s quite a sad situation really. Caused, in my opinion at least, by the previous leadership and their unsustainable obsession with only investing in something if it would guarantee a direct and immediate return. Now across the business there are many expensive things to pay for, at the worst possible time given how many UK parks are struggling. What a rubbish time for everyone working at Merlin. I really hope they can turn it around soon for everyone’s sake.

Those prices are outrageous. But then I suppose prices for everything are outrageous now, so 🤷‍♂️

How have the queue times been at Chessington? Perhaps the demand isn't really there this season? (I have no idea) Attendance feels like it's lower in general at Towers and Thorpe this year. Don't know about Lego and Chessington.

Got to be Thorpe for me these days - they have had quite the turnaround over the last few years.

It's a very interesting one that's been touched on before in other topics. Apart from the excellent Wickerman, they've spent vast amounts of money over the last several years replacing the Haunted House, Hex, Sub Terra, Nemesis, Skyride and Ripsaw with... The Haunted House, Hex, Sub Terra, Nemesis, Skyride and Ripsaw... Yes they're all updated and in a couple of cases very different, but they're all essentially the same thing at the end of the day, and it's difficult to argue with that. Someone who last visited Alton Towers in 2014, over a decade ago, would realistically not see a lot of difference in terms of ride offering if they visited again tomorrow. In fact, there are fewer rides on offer. Don't get me wrong - I think its a very good thing that Skyride was saved, I think Curse is a vast improvement on Duel, and Nemesis' renewal and tart-up was a good thing to secure its future, but I agree with what you've said above. Realistically, to most people at least, none of it is truly new. It's neatly all been (granted, expensive) maintenance to existing attractions to keep them running... And the trouble is, they're not finished yet either. Galactica is crying out for a refurbishment and retime... so could that be yet another (all be it badly needed) large investment that needs doing instead of something truly new? It wouldn't surprise me, as it will probably be deemed worth investing in rather than scrapping. I think the truth is that Merlin has run nearly everything in to the ground, with little thought for the future. Although we all rode the wave of Merlin's success a decade ago, with new things coming in fairly regularly, their short-term thinking and obsession with only ever investing in a 'sure moneymaker' to satisfy the shareholders one year at a time has landed Towers here. The money that should have been spent on refurbishments and maintenance over the years was instead given to the top execs and the shareholders, and now everything's timed out at the same time, and is hoovering up all the money that would otherwise be available to invest in to new attractions etc. I'm very sad about the situation Alton Towers has been put in to by such poor leadership in the past. Clearly there is a lot of money being spent at Towers on getting things back on track. The recent renovations have mostly been excellent. But with more expensive fix-ups surely to come, and ongoing problems with reliability and aging rides elsewhere (Rita, Galactica, etc), they're not out of the woods yet. I hope there will be news soon on something truly new and exciting coming to Towers. They just can't keep replacing or re-theming everything for ever - even Disney have accepted that!

Those posters - my guess, now that the new stuff doesn’t seem to fit, is that there’s a new room in Trailers based on X:\NWO - one poster clearly says X, and the other resembles one of those manakins there used to be on the old X:\NWO brake runs.

It could be as simple as spending existing budget with the future in mind. They clearly had some form of budget set aside for the “sparkle project”, which (to some extent at least) was for the purpose of improving and polishing the existing park in general. What better way to achieve that than to tidy up old and defunct things, which at the same time will reduce the cost of a project later on as the clearance step will be partially done. Seems like quite a sensible decision to me as it has the future in mind.

I’m sorry I can’t answer your question, but in my experience it’s extremely rare, and on the few occasions when they have had actors in there during my visits over the years, it’s simply one in the pre-show room, but the “scares” are minimal and it’s more of an “opening and closing the doors” sort of role. Another actor or 2 is then in the corridor just after the station exit, although realistically the scares here are minimal too and it’s more for show as you file past. My advice would be, if you’re really wanting to ride TWD, depending on your phobia of course, it isn’t comparable to a scare maze and is a very brief interaction. You’ll be walking past them for a few seconds at most, and the environment doesn’t lend itself to being scary or really give the staff any opportunity to hide. you’ll also be one of a trainload of people so it’s safety in numbers! If you just come through the doors, keep your head down and walk, once you’re in to the narrow corridor you’re past where the actors usually are (if there are any!) I think there will always be someone in the preshow room, who often has a mask of some sort on, but as I’ve mentioned it’s far from a scary experience and really no different than any member of staff dealing with a preshow 🤷‍♂️ Do they even have actors in there anymore actually?

I totally agree that paying to park at theme park sucks, but trying to get out of it by “outsmarting” the system or whatever is poor behaviour. It’s like these idiots you see with cameras in Police officers’ faces, not breaking any laws, but trying for hours to catch them out or get a rise out of them. Not breaking any rules, but it’s scumbag behaviour. The reality is, if you get out of the car park somehow without paying, weather that be by tailgating someone at the barrier, driving the wrong side of the road out of the entrance, holding up the queue while arguing with staff to open the barrier, or whatever, I doubt very much that anyone would do anything about it, but if someone does something stupid or aggressive in order to get out without paying, they’re are an absolute piece of sh!t. 🤷‍♂️ The rules apply to everyone. Nobody should do stupid things to get out of paying, and certainly nobody should be trying to lean on the staff to let them out etc - they aren’t there for that and it isn’t fair. There will always be people who try to flout the rules, but I suppose it comes down to the sort of person you want to be. Some in our society simply don’t care. But if we all behaved like that, 1, we’d be in a mess, and 2, the parks would simply make whatever changes are needed to close the loophole. on the other hand however - if you choose not to buy a parking ticket in advance, and take a chance that the exit barriers might be open at the end of the day etc, I think that’s fair enough if you’re let out without paying but were willing to pay at the exit 🤷‍♂️

Imagine queueing 90 mins for twd 😬

Ah interesting - there have been a couple of fairly high profile people exit their roles at Thorpe now… Hopefully all will be well at Thorpe, because these last few years it’s been run better than it has for a very long time. Good luck to them all I have wondered if a few of the current and recently ex Merlin employees will pop up in Universal. Time will tell!

To me it’s always seemed that a train can dispatch after it’s passed the block brakes before the slow right-hand turn next to the maintenance shed. Back in 2009 sort of time, when the park was heaving after Saw opened, the operators on the coasters used to count down over the tannoy, and often the trains would be ready to go and would have to actually wait to be sent - the operations back then were incredible at times. Inferno would regularly dispatch before the next train had to come to a stop. I remember very regularly coming back to the station and watching the dispatched train in front fully leave the station and be out of sight round the corner as we rolled in without stopping. I’ve never seen it dispatch earlier than that though - I suppose in theory the lift hill creates a block doesn’t it? So I guess if it would be setup to do so, a train could be sent before the other one reaches the first brakes as the lift hill would stop if the block ahead (the main layout) isn’t clear by then? Not a lot of point though because realistically it’s rarely going to be that quick, and would literally save a couple of seconds at the very best

I know what you mean about those visitor numbers - also the potential opening hours (standard from 7am to 11pm) are wild - we all moan about Merlin’s hours, but the reality is that when they do open (Alton after hours, Thorpe summer nights) the number of customers is extremely low. That said however, nobody is “on holiday” at either of those parks as such, as they would potentially be at Universal. Saying that though, even DLP don’t open those hours do they.

Ah are these not the official plans? I thought they were going for some sort of special development permission direct from government or something?

Yeah that’s true. I have only seen bits of what people have posted but there seems to be a few mentions in there about being able to compete with other parks in Europe when it comes to heights etc. Their height comparisons also cheekily don’t even mention Hyperia, but they do mention other European rides The image in the plans of the Eurostar route map going to Bedford is huge. That will also have Disney’s attention I bet, as they are no longer even served by Eurostar and rely on connections.

Totally agree with that. While Towers has had a huge fall from grace, Thorpe has worked incredibly hard and really have turned it around, especially over the last 5 years or so. Not many years ago, Thorpe’s reputation was at rock bottom. That’s certainly not the case anymore. There isn’t a single SBNO attraction anywhere in the park, the operations are excellent, and most of the park itself is in great shape actually. I agree about the ride lineup too. It’s actually a very good and diverse list of rides. To be honest I’ve always thought that, but Hyperia really has boosted it. (Shame we lost a log flume for it though!) Staff is also something that has stood out for me at Thorpe in my last few visits. Again, as said in Mark’s post, they really do work very hard, and it does show. With a new entrance and security area, and a little money spent on maintenance of effects, Thorpe would really be punching above its weight. It’s definitely the most exciting Merlin park that shows the most promise isn’t it. I really hope attendance is good at Thorpe and they continue with all the improvements.

Ooh that’s a good point… Everyone used to show up with a cutout of a barcode on a cereal box or bag of chocolates to get their 2for1 or 50% off tickets. Those deals were very good value weren’t they