Spider

So am I to believe that all those famous killer on the loose horror films (Friday the 13th, Halloween, Scream etc.) are not, in fact, horror films? I think a horror theme ish could work for families - if you look at the growth of Halloween as an event, and the increase in spooky themed family films (Hotel Transylvania, Paranorman, Frankenweenie, Book of the Dead ROTC.), there's definitely a potential for something with a horror element that is not unsuitable for children of age 8-10 ish up.

The only reason those rides have such capacity issues is because there's nothing else for families to do at the parks. Whilst it's nice of Disney to make the effort - it would be much nicer if they'd start improving the parks - HS could use at least twice the number of rides it has, and Epcot needs more family attractions. I assume it's a lot cheaper to duplicate an old ride system than build an entirely new ride, hence the upgrades, but I can't see anything altruistic about it.

Can I just say - this whole trip report has been amazing. Need to get back to Europa ASAP, but Germany in general is so good for parks - well dome for doing them all in one super trip! Sorry you don't get all the replies you deserve for these - but hope you know they are muchly appreciated! Where next?!

I don't think this is fair. There's a lot more to Seaworld than simply the Orca show, and it seems to be that this is the thing which mainly causes problems. I think Seaworld could easily survive without the Shamu show. It seems to me to be a massive gamble spending so much money on improving Orca tanks when really the social climate is moving so quickly towards the idea that those animals should not be in any kind of captivity - a bit like how we no longer really tolerate circus animals (well kept or not). I'm so tired of the theme park community rounding on Blackfish, as far as I'm concerned it made a lot of people look very silly, and unable to put basic human empathy before their love of theme parks. And I don't mean empathy towards whales, that's up to the individual, but empathy towards the idea that many people no longer find it acceptable. Sorry Mark9, not at all directed at you. Two arguments that need to be put to bed by sensible theme park fans: 1. Seaworld does a lot of charity work - it's nonsense to say that this and the Shamu shows are intrinsically linked - Seaworld could continue to operate without that one attraction and still make profits to give to conservation work. It's not Blackfish that has 'killed all the turtles' because of its success in turning people away from the park, but rather Seaworlds decision not to abandon orca shows - it's fine to continue, but people are free to be uncomfortable with it and not go. 2. The orcas can't be moved back into the wild - yes, obviously, but there's a big difference between this and stopping exhibiting them. Even if they said that after this generation they would no longer be exhibiting them it would be a statement of intent - so far the silence has been deafening.

Hahahahaha those photos make it look shockingly bad! Just look at that picture of the Dodgems entrance and midway game, it's hideously rubbish! The UK park industry really sucks at the moment doesn't it?

I don't think it's a flat ride alone that solves queue issues - but a good profile of them across a park can take some pressure off the roller coasters - it also puts people in a better mood if they can break up the longer queues with big rides with shorter queues for smaller ones (I think people would be miserable if every ride in the park had a 60 minute queue, so having things like Detonator for a quick ride or two breaks up queuing). Plus, I'm not sure that anyone visits most parks in the world because they're 'desperate' to go on a particular ride, it's all about the selection. Disney/Uni don't need flat rides because they can offer a selection without them, but if we took away smaller rides and only kept rides that people were desperate to go on, Thorpe would be left with about 5 rides Finally, for the sake of visual kineticism, I'm glad that parks have flat rides. It's much more interesting when you're in a theme park and there's rides moving around and lots going on. You could strip back every area to its headliner rides, but I think the park in general would suffer. Disney used to 'get' it, and included loads of transportation systems and 'nothing' rides (like Swan Boats), because they are invaluable to the image of the park. If everything is hidden away in show buildings the parks are less pleasant to walk around (Universal Studios has never been as interesting to me as somewhere like Islands of Adventure).

Heads up. Blackfish is on BBC4 tonight under the Storyville strand (I don't know why it's become part of a series when it's on BBC but oh well!). Will probably be on iPlayer all week as well. The American theme park fans are acting like absolute ****s over this whole thing - silly geeks have latched onto the fact that the documentary has some issues with bias and are using this as a way to completely divert attention from the underlying issue of whether Orcas should be held in captivity. There also seems to be loads of statements from people in the film saying they didn't know what kind of film it was going to be, which again is being used as a stick to beat the director with - again, I'm not sure how this effects the issues presented in the film. Apparently some internet warrriors were saying how they should be dumping dead turtles and manatees onto the directors doorstep because of the revenue that Seaworld has lost not being spent on their conservation. Oh Americans and their strange ways... Anyway, the key thing is, watch it if you haven't!

Since I live in Brighton I thought it was finally about time to go and fetch my missing credit on Turbo coaster. Oh my god, what a piece of crap! And an expensive one too at £4!!! Still, one of my easiest +1s ever, and if anything the first drop was quite shocking in its brutal nature. Also tried out the Air Race - fun ride. Nice feeling, fun and not too intense. Made me feel a little sick but not too bad. Would go on one again, though won't be spending £4 for it on the pier. The pier in General is looking a little tired. Time they got rid of crap like Haunted Hotel (seriously, would anyone really pay £3 to go round?) and Turbo and put in another mini coaster.

I would assume its so that they can use the money coming in from the boosted attendance from the ride opening. It lessens the risk compared to paying for everything up front. Maybe it also encourages people to come for the same ride twice? I'm not a huge fan of the idea, but if it allows parks like Hansa to build quality rides then I guess it's ok. At least they actually intend on putting theming in...

So now Chessington are now literally, as well as metaphorically, offering guests a big heap of s**t?!

Haha. Oh yeah! Forgot about that, which is weird because I've been following this poll for years! Why do they bother splitting it up? Would be interested to see how people rate top wooden coasters against top steel ones.

Where is Megaphobia on the list? Seems odd, if Speed had enough riders, that Megaphobia wouldn't. Especially as Megaphobia is generally considered to be the better ride (not ridden either myself). I think the list is a fairly depressing reflection of UK coasters in general. The Smiler is riding on a newness bubble, it won't stick around that high for long. That means that in the TWENTY years since Nemesis we're still yet to see another coaster of world class quality. Of course, this is a little unfair, since rides like Oblivion and Stealth are pretty awesome, it's just that because they're standard layouts they're obviously going to suffer in comparison to bigger US equivalents. It's such a shame that the overriding concern with UK parks seems to be USPs, rather than overall quality. We can't compete on height or size, but we absolutely could on quality of overall ride experience, and especially theming. If you look back to the early days of Chessington and Nemesis era AT, there was a time when UK parks were producing some of the most unique and impressive theming with a much smaller budget than the Disneys and Universals. We could easily return to this, with wealthy parks and free from the US mindset of 'build bigger and bigger' (I'm thinking stuff like Banshee). Won't happen though.

I would guess a big reason is that Legoland and Chessington are both in the London surrounds, with access roads and transport network to support the influx of people leaving the park. AT is in the middle of nowhere, and I'd imagine that the locals would start getting extremely pissed off if the roads through the village were still gridlocked at 8.30pm. I think AT have to negotiate very carefully when they're going to be open late and the like. That's pure speculation btw, it could be more to do with the fact that the place is a shambles!

Dr Pepper is a drink made by the Coca Cola company so there's no reason it shouldn't be included on those grounds. Why anyone would want to drink that mouthwash is another matter! What we've seen so far looks pretty awful, but in my mind the Calypso Quay area has always struggled to make those very humdrum buildings fit into the surroundings - no matter how you dress it up the style of buildings belongs to 'Central Park' and nothing else. That said, I'm really hoping to see some decent work done on the facades - 3d models and the like, otherwise this really is going to be the laziest paint job retirement ever!

When I was at uni in London the Cineworld in Trocadero was my 'local' - I used to go there all the time (got to 120 films in a year once). It was really such a depressing dump. Nothing in there except quick opening and closing snack stands (I have no idea how they thought they would make money when no one was ever in there) and rubbish tourist tat shops and stalls. One year they were doing refurbs which involves taking out that awesome big escalator through the middle, so all that was left was a rubbish shopping centre with nothing in it. Not surprised it's gone - it had an air of doom about it for years. Does anyone know what's going on with the cinema?

This appears to be very much in keeping with Merlin style theming. Remove all the detail and coherent theming (the old squirrel nutty station was a really attractive and charming building) and replace with crude paint jobs in bright colours. Whether the photos have been filtered or not, this all looks rubbish really doesn't it? Just someone wondering round with luminous colours and removing all the charm of the original area (see also Splash Landings, Cloud Cuckoo Land). That said, the success or failure of the area will mostly, I suspect, depend on the immersion of the rides and the atmosphere created by things like the shows and strolling characters. Maybe these will be kore impressive.

If you consider the amount of money Disney have spent on their MyMagic+ system, that is still having a lot of issues, I think it's very unlikely that Thorpe/Merlin will be bringing anything as ambitious as the Fasttrack system proposed by the trial last year. It also wouldn't work - fast track in that style only moves queues around (ie by skipping one queue you are then waiting for longer in another where someone jumps ahead of you), it is a false system that was only invented to give the impression of being able to skip lines at parks when they were at their busiest (and so make visiting Magic Kingdom in high summer a more attractive proposition). The only people getting a tangible benefit from a queue booking system that applies to all visitors are those who know how to utilise the system to its most effective - which, to be honest, is something I've never been massively comfortable with anyway (and is why I'm not totally against the introduction of a more monetised system being rolled out at WDW). Queues are always formed when demand surpasses capacity, and no reservation system can change that, unless it limited people to less gos on big rides and utilised the 'spare' capacity on less popular attractions - something I'm sure most people would be very much against. As Pluk says, the only way it will be introduced is as a more sophisticated version of the current paper system - with the potential to charge more for a more effective system. I can't see any parks bringing in wholesale changes in fast track systems until MyMagic+ has settled down and to see what kind of financial benefits and, to a lesser extent, increase in guest satisfaction, such an idea will have. I'm sure that Merlin will look at the idea of booking specific slots in advance - at the moment the vast majority of fast track users would decide on the day if it was necessary, and therefore not spend if the park is quiet. If Merlin can create a reservation system that gives the impression of needing to book in advance (as Disney have done successfully with the Dining Reservation system - which is a complete farce and would surely only be so enthusiastically lapped up by Americans) there's a chance they will make more money out of it. On a side note - I'd love them to trial charging a lot more for fasttrack and find the tipping point between cost and people using it. If you could get half the amount of people to spend double on what fasttrack already costs it would make the whole experience better for everyone, and Merlin wouldn't be losing any money.

Who remembers the old diving show? It was rubbish, but the bit where a nun athletic looking bloke climbed to the top of that thin pole and then dived into a shallow paddling pool was genuinely terrifying.

Benin, you are a constant source of jealousy! I can't imagine how on earth you afford all these trips. 2014 for me is EMPTY thus far! Probably won't get round to going to Thorpe. Very keen to get to Blackpool this year but only if I manage to buy a car at some point. Me and partner have agreed unofficially that if we can afford a holiday this summer it will involve Europa Park, and Madrid is another place we'll certainly be going to soon, in which case I'll get to Parque Warner. We have also agreed to make a trip to Orlando so it's possible that, job depending, I will be focused on saving for that for a potential 2015 or 2016 visit. We both love Disney so will also head back to Paris to get on Ratatouille at some point. Oh, and finally, if PortAventura offers deals a cheap as last year it will snap them up (whether I can afford to or not!).

There's no reason why any of them couldn't be operating for a looong time yet, as others have said. However, the reason some will go eventually is because when they run out of space they will need to start looking at where they can put new stuff in. It's not necessarily to make the park better, as Matt Creek said putting in something bigger or faster isn't necessarily an improvement. However, in order to keep people coming into the park they will need to open big new attractions - it doesn't really matter whether they're an improvement, it will reach the stage where things have to be removed in order to open something marketable as new and exciting. Non-geeks are fickle anyway, and will undoubtedly prefer new stuff if it's bigger or faster than what was around previously. It's pointless speculating at this stage though. There's enough potential space for the next 15 or 20 years, by which time who knows if the park will even be there (it almost certainly will, but the thing is it's so far down the line that it's hard to be sure).

Thanks for contributing guys! As soon as I'd posted, I realised I'd forgotten the most exciting European ride, which is opening very close to the UK - Disneyland Paris' Ratatouille trackless dark ride. By all accounts, Disney's two previous forays into the system, namely Tokyo's 'Pooh's Hunny Hunt' and Hong Kong's 'Mystic Manor', are among the best dark rides in the world, so us Europeans should be very excited about seeing what they will come up with for Paris. I just hope they haven't scrimped in a typical DLP way, and it is as visually impressive and immersive as both those rides seem to be. I'd forgotten about that ride at Europa Park, which is exactly why I started this thread. The combination of thinking it was just a bog standard family coaster (Europa Park, so should have known better) and the rubbish IP, meant that I haven't given it any thought for ages. It does, indeed, sound very good, and as it's at the world's greatest theme park it will probably be amazing!

Benin, can you remember roughly what you paid for your PortAventura trip? I remember looking at packages and thinking they were absurdly cheap, (I might be imagining it, but I swear I remember being quoted something like £90-100pp for 2 nights hotel and 3 days park tickets). I'm looking at packages for 2014 but just want to see if what I'm seeing is dramatically more than what I could be paying if I wait a while! I'm so bummed that I never booked that mini holiday last year now!

Saw this on Great Continental Railway Journeys recently. Its is a beautiful thing! There's a short snippet about it in this episode (skip to 44:26), and it shows a POV of the ride from a slightly different perspective (namely, watching Michael Portillo's face!). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_pPB68i71c (tries and fails to embed a youtube video...)

So, as Thorpe are completely silent on anything new for next year, and as it's very almost the new year, I thought it would be interesting to have a little discussion about all the new and exciting things happening around the theme park world this year (CBeebies Land - Woo!). This is not a 'tell me what I could just go a Google' thread, and I realise discussing lots of new things that we'll very likely not actually get to ride is a bit counter-intuitive. However, if, like me, you spend a fair bit of time perusing theme park stuff on the internet, it's always interesting to have a chat about what everyone is potentially going to be talking about this year. So to start off with, there are two very obvious big openings in Florida which will be guaranteed to generate discussion, mud slinging, and excitement, for most of the year. Namely, Magic Kingdom's Seven Dwarfs Mine Train Coaster and Universal Studios Florida's Wizarding World of Harry Potter - Diagon Alley. It's amusing to me to think that at nearly the same time DIsney will be opening a mid-sized family ride that has taken years and years to arrive, Universal will be opening an entire new land, with two massive rides, that has sprung up in the space of a couple of years. The Mine Train Coaster looks like it will be cute, but it also seems to me that Disney have shot themselves in the foot by, perhaps accidentally, creating such a buzz around the ride, because it looks like a fairly short mid=sized ride. Probably all it was intended to be, but if you sit on a project for so long its inevitably going to create this kind of reception. Who knows, it might be amazing (and probably will be at least excellent!). Closer to home, I've been eagerly following the snippets of news about Phantasialand's Chiapas. The theming looks sensational, and having visited the park I know that they put a lot of effort into every ride that they do - hopefully it will be a fantastic water/dark ride cross. Come on UK, you are allowed to build dark rides! So over to the rest of you! What have you been following in the lead up to this year? What's going to be amazing, and what's going to be rubbish? Maybe at the end of the season we'll be able to look back at this and see how right or wrong we were.

For those that are interested, the full movie is on youtube at the moment (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mfkd3IC411g). I'd re-iterate that for anyone interested in the theme park industry it is essential viewing.