X-est

[JoshC.]

Just some food for thought after the start of discussion from the 2011 new ride topic...With this Storm Surge ride having the capability of my marketed as the “World’s tallest Rapids Ride”, in is yet another step into the X-est direction.Go all the way back to the days of RMC, in 1995, when Project X was coming to light. Little did anyone know that this would end up being, in my eyes, the biggest project for the park – as not only did it attract everyone’s attention towards the park, it created a formula for the park that they seem to follow by the word now...Needless to say Project X opened in 1996 as X:\ No Way Out. It was the “World’s first backwards and in the dark roller coaster”. Now why do I think it was the biggest project for the park? Well, RMC were a small company in comparison to Tussauds and Merlin – in fact, they were just small. Also, it really did turn heads. Popularity of the park increased greatly, and Thorpe Park was slowly being ‘put on the map’, so to say. It was the only attraction since Thunder River, yes, all the way back in 1987, which led to no new attraction the following year. I’d go as far to say that X:\ No Way Out gave Tussauds more of an incentive to buy Thorpe Park in 1997; the park has well and truly showed its potential.Anyway, back to the point in hand. X:\ No Way Out was a “First”. You then jump to 1999, the introduction of Pirates 4D. Such a simple, and common, attraction everywhere now. However, it was the “First 4D experience” in the UK. A big marketing campaign about “You have to FEEL it to believe it” was set. We then go to 2000. Tidal Wave dominated the landscape at Thorpe – as hard as it is for some to believe now. However, it was the first ‘X-est’ from the park. Marketed as “Europe’s tallest Water Ride” – and at 85ft, it of course was. Now, the big one, the ride that many say truly put Thorpe ‘on the map’. Colossus. If you’re on here, you should know it was the “World’s first 10 looping roller coaster”. Sound similar? Sound like the other major ride from 8 years ago? Thought so.2003 brings us Nemesis Inferno. Is it a world first? No. Is it a European first? No. Is it in anyway an X-est? No. Yet it still ends up being the “World’s greatest roller coaster experience”. Needless to say that compared to its twin, that is a big bowl of baloney. But doesn’t it sound a lot like the two other major coasters? Fast forward to 2005 and we are presented with the great S&S attractions that are Slammer and Rush. But of course, they’re no ordinary rides, they’re yet other ones for the record books. Slammer, “Europe’s first Sky Swat” and Rush, the “World’s tallest Screamin’ Swing”. Yet another first as well as the first “World X-est” the park introduces. And we still had Project Stealth to come next year...Hmm, can anyone remember what we had in 2006? It was this small attraction, but the name always escapes me. Something odd, like... Humdinger? Oh wait, that’s it, Project Stealth is Stealth. Anyone remember how it was marketed? Ah yes, “Europe’s tallest and fastest launch coaster”. Might I actually compliment the park here, as many thought – and still to this very day – think it is the tallest and fastest coaster in Europe, but many seem to forget about the ugly PMBO. But anyway, 2 more X-est records for the park. What’s this, 2 quiet years... IN A ROW!? Go steady Thorpe.But, as we all know, 2009 was the year many were waiting for. A brilliantly themed coaster. Many argue that we did not get that, but hey, that’s beside the point here, 2 more records for the park. The “World’s first horror-movie themed roller coaster” and the “World’s steepest free-fall drop in the world”. Not only that, but it is the “most extreme one”. So here we have yet another first, and yet another X-est. Again, I’d like to stand up for the park here, and say how the media unfairly used Mumbo Jumbo’s opening (of the steepest drop – which is controlled – in the World) to attack the latter claim. 2010. The park fit in yet ANOTHER first – the “World’s first all-year round horror maze”. Not only that, but it is the “most extreme one”. Really start to tire of this marketing spew that it’s a FIRST!!And then, 2011, we could be seeing the “World’s tallest Rapid Ride” plastered over. Lovely...Actually, I’ve forgotten how you’ve got the UK’s tallest Log Flume in Loggers Leap – just thought I’d throw that in here. So, to list everything I’ve said. Here are all the ‘Firsts’ the park have had:World’s first backwards and in the dark coaster (X:\ No Way Out)UK’s first 4D cinema (Pirates 4D)World’s first 10 looping roller coaster (Colossus)Europe’s first Sky Swat (Slammer)World’s first horror-themed coaster (Saw – The Ride)World’s first year-round horror maze (Saw Alive)And all the X-est:Tallest Log Flume in the UK (Loggers Leap)Tallest Water Ride in Europe (Tidal Wave)Tallest Screamin’ Swing in the World (Rush)Tallest and Fastest Launch coaster in Europe (Stealth)Steepest free-fall drop (Saw – The Ride)And, possibly, the Tallest Rapids Ride in the World (2011 attraction)So, why am I saying all this? Well, I’m not only peed off with the constant “We’ve got the first, we’ve got the X-est, that means it’s the best” marketing. However, what I’m worrying about is that doing all this is stopping Thorpe from advancing. They seem so caught up in getting these Firsts and these X-est that they may slowly blind themselves and forget that a theme park doesn’t need to have those things. Look at Chessie, they are doing exceptional well. AT, similar to Thorpe, yet they only do it every 4 years – thankfully. I’d also go as far to say look at places such as Oakwood and Drayton Manor. They are doing very well, and only have what, one of these X-est or Firsts in the park – if that. If they had the marketing and investment that the Merlin parks receive, they’d be real threats towards Thorpe. Also, with the 2012 coaster, which looks like to be the B&M prototype of their version of an Intamin wing rider. You can already smell the First or the X-est in it somehow. So Please, Thorpe Park, don’t go down the route where everything is X-est this, First that. It really is not the way a theme park should, could, or will work out. (Oh, and one more thing, thanks for reading ).

[MikeyT]

Any park in the world will market their rides in a way that evokes the most interest to the general public. More people through the gates= more profit which then leads to further investment. I don't personally mind which way a park decides to market their new ride, as long as the experience is good. What I wouldn't like would be a park, say Thorpe, to compromise a ride's overall experience in favour of getting another record breaker.

[Marc]

I dont really see the point here, are you saying thorpe should stop installing rides which break records, or are you saying these records shouldnt be advertised? =\

[JoshC.]

I dont really see the point here, are you saying thorpe should stop installing rides which break records, or are you saying these records shouldnt be advertised? =\

Neither and a bit of both at the same time.I'm worried that the park are blinding themselves in getting these Firsts and these X-est rides, that they could slowly forget the 'simple' option is the best. By all means the park could still introduce rides with record breaking features, but I'm afraid they're more focusing on getting the record than the ride.By all means the park could advertise these records. But look at Th13teen. That is more being advertised as The Ultimate Coaster now (I think). Granted, I hate that, but in the world of marleting, I'd prefer that to thrusting a World First in mind again.

[Marc]

But you only have to look at how far they have bought the park forward, like youve stated records like the worlds first 10 looping coaster, Europes highest launch coaster really do grab peoples attention (more so the GP) and make them think wow, got to go there and ride that which in turn makes the park successful.Thorpe Park out of the 3 has always been the most advance imo in the way of technology used on rides and general running, I doubt we will see a change to this any time soon really.

[JoshC.]

But you only have to look at how far they have bought the park forward, like youve stated records like the worlds first 10 looping coaster, Europes highest launch coaster really do grab peoples attention (more so the GP) and make them think wow, got to go there and ride that which in turn makes the park successful.

I don't question that it advanced the park and increased the popularity. I agree and understand that. However, why does EVERY OTHER ride have to be these huge attention grabbing rides? Other parks have a much more balanced ride count, with a couple ATTENTION GRABBING rides, and then these simple rides dotted around.

[Marc]

I don't question that it advanced the park and increased the popularity. I agree and understand that. However, why does EVERY OTHER ride have to be these huge attention grabbing rides? Other parks have a much more balanced ride count, with a couple ATTENTION GRABBING rides, and then these simple rides dotted around.

Because its what works for the park, its no accident that for the past few years the park has had its best year ever each one of them, you compare to parks such as oakwood, its a different scale completely, would Saw ever run on 1 car and have no queue like speed does?

[JoshC.]

But the point I originally made was if Oakwood had the same marketing and investment as Thorpe, it would be a challenger towards Thorpe, due to it's blend of simple rides and the attention grabbing ones.And I wouldn't be surprised if Saw (or whatever it'd be called) did run on one car with no queue IF Thorpe had the same investment and advertising as Thorpe.In no way did I directly compare Thorpe ad Oakwood, I made a hypothetical comparison...

[Benin]

Thorpe Park out of the 3 has always been the most advance imo in the way of technology used on rides and general running, I doubt we will see a change to this any time soon really.

Sorry, must have missed Alton having the Vertical Drop and Flying coaster prototypes whilst Thorpe have had...................... On the topic, meh, as I've said, marketing is not aimed at enthusiasts... Stop paying attention to it... Every park in the world does this... America is the worst for it cos it's all "Tallest in North Carolina, Fastest in New Jersey, Tallest Loop in North California, etc"...But yes, records a good ride does not make... Hence why our European counterparts will always be better than us...

[Marc]

Sorry, must have missed Alton having the Vertical Drop and Flying coaster prototypes whilst Thorpe have had......................

Slammer, Rush, Saw, Inferno are all pretty complicated rides too.. Saw and Rush being prototypes, I'm pretty sure Slammer is very different in the way it works to the one which was / is open in the states, Not sure about inferno but its Pre lift drop compecates things a fair bit and with another rumoured to open in 2012 too. As I said, not just rides too but general things, project link and Iphone apps for example, I think we will be seeing more like that in the future too. Its just allway's the impression ive got from the park.Edit: I'm in no way saying this is what makes them good rides and what not.

[Benin]

^All rides are complicated mechanically though... Saw is a prototype now? Because of the extra 2 degrees on the drop I assume?

[Marc]

The lift hill works differently, the breaks and the dual loading / unloading is all new.

[James6]

^ Yeah, that doesn't make it a prototype...

[ste193]

this is what all parks do, its how they like to draw attention to themselves and bring in the public, sometimes it can be good because its offering a new experince but sometimes you are right the ride experience is comprimised by the worlds first part but there parks worlwide use this same stratagey.Alton towers: Nemesis:Europes first inverted roller coasterOblivion: The worlds first vertical drop roller coasterAir: The worlds first B&M flying roller coasterTh13teen: The worlds first vertical drop roller coasterSix Flags Great Adventure:Bizzaro: The worlds first floorless coaster.Kingda Ka: The worlds tallest and faster roller coaster.Blackpool pleasure beach:Pepsi Max the big one: UK's tallest coasterInfusion: The worlds first inverted roller coaster to be suspended entirely over waterValhalla: The worlds largest indoor dark rideOakwood: Hydro: Tallest water ride in Europe.Flamingo Land Resort:Mumbo jumbo: steepest dropDrayton Manor:Shockwave: Only standup roller coaster in Europe.My point is all parks do this, it is a natural thing.I understand your point but it's never going to change because this is what bring people in, you say you have the best of something and naturally the public are going to want it.It's like say you had a sweet and you marketed it as the best sweet in the world, there are going to be alot of people who don't find it so and some who agree but itf you say something is the best it makes people want it.I to hope parks start to focus more on the experience rather than the X-est I think that is what creates the gap between a good park and a great park.

[Marc]

^ Yeah, that doesn't make it a prototype...

I'm pretty sure officially it is seeing as how much is different about it...Its different to any other eurofighter out there.

[Benin]

I'm pretty sure officially it is seeing as how much is different about it...Its different to any other eurofighter out there.

So therefore Mystery Mine is a prototype, as is Fluch von Novgorod, and Speed, and Rage, and Vild-Snivet... They're all different to any other Eurofighter out there... (2 lifts, launch and lift, layout, layout, layout)...A 'true' prototype is the first thing of it... Naturally with all things parts are improved in many different ways, but seriously... Nothing at Thorpe can be truly considered a prototype ride...

[JoshC.]

The lift hill works differently, the breaks and the dual loading / unloading is all new.

That doesn't make it a prototype. Just really makes it a upgrade / newer version; Eurofighter V1.1 if you will.Ste, though I don't disagree, Thorpe have SO much more compared to others.Also, Marc, you say that Thorpe use complicated technology. Inferno's pre lift is nothing more than a design. Rush and Slammer were nothing more than upgrades to previous versions, at best. And yet AT use much more complicated technology; look at Th13teen for example..As for the blutooth technology amd stuff, it's not THAT complicated compared to ride systems, is it?Agreed with Benin; no ride at Thorpe is a prototype.

[Marc]

I'm pretty sure Gerstlauer consider it a prototype but there you go.Pretty sure Rush is too..

[Marc]

That doesn't make it a prototype. Just really makes it a upgrade / newer version; Eurofighter V1.1 if you will.

Depends how much has changed surely?

Also, Marc, you say that Thorpe use complicated technology. Inferno's pre lift is nothing more than a design.

A very complicated design... Which is why Inferno has problems in the rain.

Rush and Slammer were nothing more than upgrades to previous versions, at best.

Slammer maybe, rush is pretty different to the previous one which held 4 people though.

And yet AT use much more complicated technology; look at Th13teen for example..

Granted yes, wouldnt say its "much more" complicated though

As for the blutooth technology amd stuff, it's not THAT complicated compared to ride systems, is it?

No your right, the point I'm trying to make is they have allways been the park to try out new technology in different ways.

[JoshC.]

I'm pretty sure Gerstlauer consider it a prototype but there you go.

Hate to ask, but any sources you can provide from Gerstlauer to prove this?

[Marc]

Nope I dont, Might be somwhere on there site not sure.Would certainly explain all the problems compared to other eurofighters. (Before it was handed over to the park )

[JoshC.]

Not mentioned anywhere on their site...How are you so sure it is a prototype...

[Marc]

I'm not getting into the whole prove it etc its entirely your choice if you wish to believe me or not =p But with different loading/off loading system, breaks, lift hill apart from the actual steal work that's alot of differences between others.

[JoshC.]

I'm not getting into the whole prove it etc its entirely your choice if you wish to believe me or not =p But with different loading/off loading system, breaks, lift hill apart from the actual steal work that's alot of differences between others.

That's why I hate to ask. But I can never believe someone who says their sure, when they have nothing to back it up - especially in this industry..

[Mark9]

I can sort of see this topic being a natural extension to what I posted in the Parks, Coasters and News topic. The problem with records is that everyone has rightly said they do bring people to the park which brings in more money for future investments. And this is not a Thorpe only want the records thing, this is every single park in the world which wants to have the worlds largest of something. Corkscrew was Britains first double looping rollercoaster, Vampire was Europes first suspended rollercoaster and Loggers Leap was the UK's largest log flume.My problem is back in the older days of coasters you also got a good enough ride to justify its existance. Vampire, for all its faults tries to do something with the ride, its theme is still considered Chessington's best by many and the layout, for all its clunkiness and weirdness is still very enjoyable, 20 years on.It's inevitable that for every new ride we get there will be some kind of angle, although if you can tell me what exactly the angle is for Kobra at Chessington then you get brownie points.