Question Time

[Benin]

Hexperience for me too...A ride with a real story behind it, or themeatic elements that give the feel and look of something that is much more than just a ride, can be often 10x better than just thrill rides... Good case in point would be Revenge of the Mummy...There's nothing wrong with thrill rides, but often they just don't leave as much of a lasting impression than experience based ones...However, it is entirely possible to have a thrill ride that is also an experience ride... Look at Nemesis... One of the most thrilling rides on the planet and also uses several different parts of experience (theme, landscape, etc) to help support it and become effectively the ride we all know...

[pluk]

Nearly impossible for me to choose between the two. I need both in my life! I couldn't do one top 10 because I can't really compare them. I can completely enjoy and appreciate a great thrill ride with no themeing at all (although 6flags push this too far with parking lot - the ride). In fact I don't think a large outdoor thrill ride can be themed in a way that changes the actual on ride experience much. To really work as an experience, themeing needs to be completely immersive, that's just no possible when you are so high up you can see for miles around. Unless you can build something on Disney scale to block out your surroundings, or in a hole like Nemesis.My perfect ride is TAAO Spiderman, which I guess is an experience ride made thrilling. If I have to decide, I'd go experience rides. When done well they have a soul and joy about them that a coaster can rarely match.

[Kevin]

Thill rides are dead for me - has to be experiance.Tomb, Duel, Hex are my winners.

[Fred]

Tomb isn't a winner for me, slow and boring and not much to shoot at.. plus poorly maintained guns.Then again, I haven't been when its been busy recently. A dead quiet tomb on 3 trains has to be the most soul-sucking experience at chessington. I'd relate it to Pirate Adventure at Drayton Manor..

[Sheepie]

I've thought about this, then realised I knew how I felt all along. I do not see attractions as either being thrill, experience or whatever you want to call them, I see all attractions as an opportunity to entertain an audience, to manipulate their emotions and to engage them in a theme/ story.Sure, you get rides that are catered more towards thrillseekers, likewise, you get rides that are aimed more at smaller children, but the main aim is that it has to entertain a very large spectrum of guests as possible because you want them to come back again, recommend their visit to others and in the long run this means more profit and more investment.Greater interactivity is the way forward for all theme parks I feel. Disney have shown this in their recent queueline updates on attractions such as Winnie the Pooh and Haunted Mansion. Both attractions appeal to families yet the beauty is, you can take anyone through them and they will find something that they will be entertained by.I can understand why Merlin are so hesitant to invest in dark rides; to build a decent one you need a budget as big as a multi- million pound coaster, if not more so. With these rides, you do not have the advantage of having the queue interact with the ride and so in order to keep your guests entertained, more effort needs to be put into scenery here. Scenery and special effects are more expensive than what people realise: the Vampire Horseman for example, cost thousands and thousands of pounds just for that one scenic element.However, with the huge spectrum of people that dark rides cater for (due to their accessibility to families), I'd argue that this would make the huge investment worthwhile. I'd love to see dark rides start playing a starring role at our theme parks like they do in other countries, though sadly I feel as though Marketing struggle to find a way to market them and would not be able to guarantee a return on the investment like they would with a new coaster or area, for example.I've sort of gone off on a tangent here, as usual. My main point is supposed to be that you can have whatever type of transit system you want (coaster, water, trackless, tracked dark ride...) but they also need to have substance, story and a great deal of creative depth to them and I do not see them as separate types of attractions. What one person finds entertaining and thrilling, another person may find boring.

[Phill Pritchard]

^ Some great posts on this topic. I can see where you are coming from Mikey I would still personally have to say experience rides. Although I also love thrill coasters (not so much the thrill flats) one thing that I definitely feel some parks lack are some great Dark Rides! Having grown up riding all the different incarnations of Chessington's 5th Dimension, Terror/ Forbidden Tomb, Tomb Blaster, the classic orginal Professor Burp's Bubbleworks, Thorpe Park's Magic Mill/ Mr Rabbit's Tropical Travels and Phantom Fantasia/ Wicked Witches Haunt I feel I may have been a bit spoilt for great local Dark Rides when I was younger and that may be one reason why I really feel sad that Thorpe Park no longer has such an immersive ride.

[Mark9]

Some excellent replies guys, Sheepie as always has made me think more about how we define rides, why we put them into particular categories such as thrill, family, kiddy, water, dark, coaster, flat when surely there so many exceptions to this rule that trying to shoehorn a ride into a category is pointless and defeates the point of rides.Pluk bought up my favourite point actually, how can we live without the other. Parks need all types of rides to satisfy all audiences. They need their high and fast thrill rides, they need the interactive dark ride, their log flume and rapids ride to satisfy every visitor. And there's no reason why rides like Loggers and Monkey Swinger can't be more enjoyable then Rita and Rameses Revenge.

[Tom]

Oh - Did my study I was talking about however many posts ago, and did Spearmans on my results! Found out it was statistically significant. So there is a correlation between length of queue and enjoyment of a ride. But yeah there were so many flaws of my study that this goes down the drain when you look at all the other possible variables! BUT YAY.

[Mark9]

Merlin has a monopoly in this country on theme parks. It's no secret that these are also the most popular with Alton Towers being world-renowned, Thorpe Park's reputation has grown incredibly since Colossus in 2002 and Legoland which is a force unto itself.But how often do you go to theme parks not run by the Merlin machine? There are a lot of parks out there. Drayton Manor, Oakwood, Pleasure Beach Blackpool Paultons, Flamingoland, Camelot, Lightwater Valley just to name a few.Do you ever endeavour to put your money into independant parks or is it easier fro you just to pick up the Annual Pass and stroll to a Merlin park. Or do you do both?The last park I visited in the UK that wasn't Merlin was Oakwood last year. Whilst it was a decent park it didn't have the professional approach that Merlin seem to have a good hold of. But to be frank, my Merlin park visiting is incredibly low this year anyway..

[Benin]

Been to Drayton twice, Lightwater once and Camelot this year...And really, whilst they give a different feel and atmosphere, they don't really have the same amount of quality in comparison to the Tussauds/Merlin parks (since Merlin's investments aren't at the same quality of Tussauds so far)...Rides like Shockwave, G-Force, Ultimate and Knightmare are all unique to the country, but in comparison to Nemesis, Air, Oblivion, Vampire, Fury, Stealth, Colossus? They have nothing on them... And of course there's Haunting and Excalibur at Drayton... Again showing the large gulf of quality there is between the groups of parks...Oakwood and Blackpool are just too far to travel for me for parks where I would need to make a weekend of it (Might go Blackpool later this year, but even then I'll be doing the Midway attractions too), and it's pretty difficult to justify the petrol and hotel costs when I can just hop on a train to Staines or Chessie... I could potentially even get to Alton and back home on a single tank with careful driving, something which wouldn't happen for deepest darkest Wales...Paultons although a nice little park, doesn't really have anything for me on an adult level... If I had kids I would no doubt visit it a few times in a year, as it is a really nice park but there's not enough to keep adults without kids entertained for a whole day...Flamingoland I do wish to go to because it's been years since I've been last and I'm curious as to how crap Mumbo Jumbo is... But again, it's a travel thing since Yorkshire is very far away (indeed, if I hadn't been getting a lift to Lightwater, I wouldn't have gone there this year either)...Adventure Island in Southend is another option for Non-Merlin times... But it isn't very big and is certainly not a full day park... So again, it's a case of asking is it worth the travelling cost (by train) or the parking cost (by car), either way is reasonably expensive and with it being a rather permenant funfair at the end of the day, it's again somewhere that is questionable for regular visits...So basically, because I'm a Londoner, it's a lot easier to go to 3 Merlin parks and Midway attractions than it is to go essentially anywhere else... Even with a car now it's hard to justify the odd trip far away, especially when I'm trying to save money for the final year of uni... Especially when some of these parks only have one worthwhile ride (Megaphobia whilst brilliant, it's not worth the stupidly long journey, especially when I could potentially get to Parc Asterix in a similar time from home)...

[Luke_A]

So far this year I've been to ChessingtonX2, ThorpeX3, Alton once, have also stayed at Holiday Inn Chessington. Then I've been to Paultons and Funland Hayling IslandX2... (I would class this as a permanent funfair, it has a Pinfari single looper which is SO rough. :/ It also has a MoseRides Speed Flip which is almost guaranteed to make you feel sick and a Huss Breakdance as well as your standard flume and kiddie coasters/rides etc.) Drayton Manor is planned for later this season as well as Scarefest or Fright Nights too, maybe HHP at Chessington and possibly Thorpe Blast too. That's one of the main things that I like Merlin for, their events especially Scarefest are always really good, and is something that I can rely on them to do year after year. Fright Nights has it's own difference to the other parks in the way it has all it's awesome mazes, whereas Scarefest is more about giving the park and rides enhanced themes (Nemesis red lighting, Oblivion Spot Lights etc...) Paultons is a really nice little park, and one of the things that I noticed when I visited there in the easter holidays was that with the addition of Peppa Pig World, the rest of the park seemed somewhat very quiet with queues nothing above 15 mins. Although some of the PPW rides did have 40 mins... Cobra is a nice little gem and is a good all rounder ride. I'm quite looking forward to visiting Drayton Manor if I'm honest. Apocalypse stand up floorless side looks... different, as it tilts you too. G-Force looks a bit of a novelty and I'm intrigued to ride Shockwave just to see what a stand-up coaster is really like :PFantasy Island in Ingoldmells near Skegness is a possibility for next year too. The park looks like it's lost quite a few of it's better flat rides over the years but there are still some decent ones there including a Mondial Top Scan which is run on manual mode for about 5 mins each ride As well as a Mondial Ultra Max, it's also home to Jubilee Odyssey; the longest Vekoma SLC in the world :S and Millenium Coaster, which some say is the smoothest Vekoma looping coaster ever... Shame their S&S Catapult got scrapped Would have loved to have been on that!So, overall I'd say that I always try a variation of theme parks every year, with Merlin being my 'staple' attractions with the other privately owned ones on the side, it's nice to go to a park and not have the same Merlin tat everywhere which can get annoying I.e re-ride policy etc on quiet days Having an AP makes you want to visit the parks more to get your 'money's worth' as it is, and getting discounts and stuff in park is good too, can't say I'm too impressed with the so called "pass holder" days though...If I had to choose one park to go to next outside of the U.K it would be Europa Park preferably next season, everything about it looks just so perfect and it just gets better and better, they add more theming to most rides each year I.e Atlantica having the boat mast added and other sailing theming and Blue Fire having more rock-work added at the end and around the launch as well as new lighting in the indoor section. Not to mention the woodie coming next season. <3

[Benin]

If we're gonna mention European parks, I'd like to comend Hansa Park on their brilliance of Fluch von Novgorod... Proving that you can mix a fantastic ride, story and theme without having an obscene budget...The more smaller parks that go along this road the better for the future... As long as they realise that they may not make the money back straight away...

[Fred]

it's nice to go to a park and not have the same Merlin tat everywhere which can get annoying I.e re-ride policy etc on quiet days

Lol, have fun with that in the UK.. None of the ones I've visited (blackpool, drayton, oakwood, flamingoland or lightwater) allow you to stay on, regardless of busyness!This year I've been drayton 3 times, lightwater 3 times and blackpool once. I love visiting the non-merlin parks, however they are really lacking in areas. Most have some appauling rides which you'd only match with chessington (Tomb and Bubbles are shocking). In comparison.. I've visited towers 4 times, and chessie twice. Couple of midway brands.Tend to go to independant ones more, cos they're cheap and they are good fun.

[pluk]

From my experience there's no doubting the Merlin parks in the UK are the most popular for a good reason - they are better than the others.I do go to other parks when I can if I'm near one and some of them have been great, but if they are not on a certain scale then I can not justify travelling halfway across the country to visit them. BPB are the exception to this, and Drayton were getting close in terms of size if not quality but their developments recently have not appealed to me at all (they weren't aimed at me either I guess). Oakwood has been calling me for years but that really is a long way away. Alton and Thorpe though have so much to do and provide a complete day out that they are worth huge journeys, same goes for Chessington if you've got a family.The park I have visited more than any other is Peter Pans / Adventure Island Southend. That's not because I think it is the best park in the country, it's because I live a short train ride away and often find myself in Southend anyway sitting on the seafront with a beer on a sunny day and thinking "I fancy a go on Rage". I do hope people aren't driving from somewhere near Alton to Southend just to visit AI, but I know a lot of people here who do drive to Alton for the sole purpose of visiting the park. No independent I've visited would have justified the journey just to visit the park.I think the UK theme park market really could do with a shot in the arm from one of the independents pushing up to the same level as the Merlin. The problems I have with Merlin parks are mainly not about their overall offering but with the laziness in the running and attention to detail. They wouldn't be able to get away with that laziness if others were snapping at their heels.

[Mark9]

When Nemesis was built in 1994 it was almost the surprise hit that Alton Towers never expected. To this day it's still the most unique B&M built, starting off with a casual drop and then exploding into life like no other inverter out there. Even to this day, when we discuss rides like Black Mamba, European Montu and Raptor we call them very "Nemesis" as if thats the greatest badge of honour and hype a ride can recieve.But are there any other in the UK then we can genuinely call the barrier of expectation. Or is everything built since 1994 just trying to live up to Nemesis and failing?

[AstroDan]

Sadly, most rides since have never really lived up to the overall product that is Nemesis. Although, Oblivion did very well and for me still represents the best drop on any B&M to date that I have experienced (having also ridden Krake and Sheikra in terms of dive machines). Nemesis remains one of the most constant-intense rollercoasters ever built and the fact that it won the recent Alton Towers "All Time Greats" poll by a massive margin, speaks volumes - not to mention it's position at number 5 on the most recent edition of the Mitch Hawker "Best Coaster Poll" - no other UK coaster comes anywhere near its position.The UK has tried to introduce other coasters which may have potentially lived up to Nemesis, and for me - based on "first ride feeling" - I once got off Rita in April 2005 and declared it the best ride ever built. Of course, it's that re-ridability, timeless factor that proves what a genuine top class ride is. And in the UK, there are a few - but of all of them, I would argue Nemesis remains the pinnacle of custom made UK rollercoasters to date.Nemesis and Oblivion are the only rides since 1994 that I would consider the pinnacle of what they were designed to achieve. That's not to say I don't rate other rides, in fact Stealth is my #2 UK coaster but it's not got that incredible, overall package of Nemesis or Oblivion. It feels cheap by comparison. I hope the Swarm and SW7 don't feel "cheap" and are a return to the likes of Nemesis and Oblivion. Those were the days!

[TraX]

^ Great post and I totally agree (not about Rita though)!

[AstroDan]

The main thing with Rita is that in April 2005, it was before I was a seasoned theme park pro. I was very interested in them (always had been) but still hadn't really been to many theme parks. Given that Rita was my 2nd launch coaster (Thunder Looper was my first) - I had no idea the launch would be so breathtaking. I hadn't done research beforehand or anything. And it blew me away. Obviously, Rita doesn't have the "staying power" of something like Nemesis as much at its job at Alton Towers is a good one.

[pluk]

I think the short answer is no, nothing else in the UK is up to the level of it's type to be the barrier of expectation when it comes to coasters. Air is actually my favourite flyer I've ridden, I think the pace and forcefulness of it suits the type perfectly, much better than the bigger US ones I've ridden. But I could improve air greatly without touching the track; flying through a bare concrete tunnel and over a corrugated tin roof is not the pinnacle of anything, so the best it could be - no.But with dark water/rides I'd throw in opening spec Valhalla as the yardstick to perfection (maybe it still is, I've not been for a few years but have heard bad things about it's upkeep recently). It was absolutely amazing, I don't really see how it could be bettered in any way.

[Benin]

We peaked too early it seems...Thing is, the way in which Nemesis was built back then will NEVER be repeated... The sheer scale of the build is something unaffordable by today's prices, and it's just such an unique experience that will never be repeated...Unless someone decides to repeat it... I can dream...

[Mark9]

After a year out of action, it returns with a bit of an open question for you all.

What in your opinion is the best country in Europe for theme parks?

[Benin]

Best country?

It's gotta be Germany surely? Just for the sheer overall quality of rides and atmosphere... Places like Europa, Phantasialand and Hansa show that the country has parks of the normal types (big corporation owned down to small family run parks) and have some of the best rides in Europe (Black Mamba, Fluch, Blue Fire, etc)... Overall the atmosphere and general operation policies also help, with a preference for the rides people to focus on the rides and bring down those queues, whilst the rest of the departments organise the interactive qualities also desired...

Italy come a close second... 3 major parks, all of which have some quality within (although the Merlin park is the weakest of the 3, similar situation in Germany out of the parks I've visited), and with Mirabilandia home to Katun and iSpeed, the quality of rides is very high (aside from Gardaland's coasters)... It's also home to my favourite dark ride, Huntik... Be interesting to see how successful Etnaland is to see how Italy's future goes...

Dunno where the UK would come in... Need to visit some other European countries to see how those compare...