JoshC.

Additions to CBeebies Land are good. Another coaster isn't the worst option either. On the subject of Project Horizon, who knows what's happening with it. But if the rumours of it being an indoor coaster (Intamin Multi Dimensional) are true, then I've mixed thoughts. By no means a bad thing to introduce something like that, but the park need flat rides desperately more than dark rides or coasters imo.

It can be somewhat awkward trying to plan/book trips over the winter. Some parks won't have fully finalised or released their opening hours, tickets, etc, others may not have transport links confirmed. I'm not saying that's the case here (I haven't used the Shuttle Bus), but it will be something to keep in mind if you're booking stuff now.

I like the skyline addition. It looks cool and adds a bit of extra recognisability to it. I don't think it's going to be a "part" of the logo, in that I don't see it being plastered everywhere. I expect they're fully sticking with the minimalistic logo. However, it's a nice graphic to include, which will become a part of the brand, and over time, become recognisable and synonymous with the park itself.

It's weird as the marketing team has been largely consistent for a number of years. In fact, I think it's pretty much the exact same team as the ones who made the decision to drop areas. My point being: it's not like 7-8 years ago where we were in a marketing carousel which chopped and changed every year. Thing is, if you're doing themed areas, you need to go quite far with them. You can't half-heart it, or pick and choose where on park you do it. And it's very hard (and not to mention, uncommon) for a park to switch from non-themed to themed areas. When parks do it, it's a long, slow process (Walibi Belgium is a good example of this). But yeah, with this map, we've got multiple parts of the park which aren't themed areas. Depth Charge, Beach and the Arena space are in No Man's Land. So too is Ghost Train and Walking Dead. Saw and Samurai's land is...Saw And Samurai. I wonder if they've just added it as a test to see what would happen, what the reaction might be, etc. Frankly, I don't care even way at this point if Thorpe go with themed areas or not. Just pick a lane and be consistent with it.

Auction went live yesterday. People learnt that, because you didn't need credit/debit card details, you could inflate the prices forever with a couple of accounts.. Thorpe are deleting obvious stupid bids, but it's a shame that they couldn't find a way to have stopped such shenanigans...

Weird one isn't it. On the one hand, it's Thorpe's stuff, they're selling it, so they have no need to donate any money to charity. No one bats an eyelid when Towers or Blackpool or any other park sells off old ride parts / signs for complete profit. On the other hand, it's an auction. The money they could make is quite literally limitless. They could have just set these as limited edition, first-come-first-serve items at a set price, and told people to suck it up. It's smart they haven't gone down that route. But y'know, they could have given more to charity. At the same time, the charity is Merlin's Magic Wand, so it's still all going to Merlin one way or another really. Will be very interesting to see how much some of that goes for...

I'm flattered you think I have too much money. If it's parts of Loggers Leap in any way (signs, boats, wheels, whatever), it's wonderful to see the park offer that stuff, but will be priced way beyond my limit (or, if it's an auction, the bids will go way beyond anything I'm willing to pay). If it's a new memorabilia merch line related Loggers Leap / old rides, then it's a good thing for me the teacher pay rise for the last few months gets stuck onto the December pay packet...

Location certainly didn't help either. Can't help but feel if it was based somewhere that could have been accessible to hotel guests and it ran into the evenings, would have been a much more sensible and viable decision. Then again, we all know this, as that's exactly what was said when it was announced and built.

It was sort of on borrowed time, but also not really. It was due to be removed in 2015, rumoured to make way for SW8, but then those plans were shelved (and ultimately completely changed) following the Smiler incident. But then in 2019, it underwent a heavy refurb (being completely removed, etc). If that refurb really only added a few extra years to it before it hit end of life, was it worth it? Why couldn't they spend a little bit more to get an entirely new one? And this is the thing: it's poor decision making from the past, along with difficult / questionable decision making in the present causing a real issue for the park right now.

Interesting lack of mention regarding Skyride. Also makes you wonder what the point of all the work to the Blade was a couple of years ago if it's still hit its end of life

Some pictures of plans: https://x.com/AttractionSc/status/1859605164950184303

It is literally going to be the ride and control buildings that are removed, and nothing else, with nothing going in its place. The queue will remain to be used for DeadBeat. The trees will largely remain. The pit under the ride is staying as is. It's nice to remove a dead ride, but it does beg a question...why now? It's been closed for 7 years, why remove it and put nothing in its place? Was there a plan to put a ride there? Is it a change in the powers that be? And if there's money to do this, why isn't there (rumoured) money to finish to Colossus repaint, or carry on the Sparkle Project? It's certainly an interesting development. TPM tweets: https://x.com/ThorpeParkMania/status/1859671221912445105

No doubt there will be rumours circulating around that parts of Ka could go to Stealth, or indeed any hydraulic around the world. For now, I think we should take an air of sensibility about it. Ka's closure has only just been formally announced. Parks will plan and budget and buy parts well in advance of when they need them. It won't be some yard sale where Thorpe will go "you've closed this down, we'll take 4 of your motors for £100k". At the same time, it's not out of the realm of possibility that Thorpe will enquire and see what's usable for them for Stealth. --- As for talks about Stealth's future. I think it's fine. Firstly, let's remember that Merlin have 3 Intamin hydraulic launches (Stealth, Rita and Desert Race at Heide). So, across the group, there's a lot of shared knowledge, and potentially a lot of opportunities for bulk buying of parts. Next, let's take into context why TTD and KK closed. TTD closed following an incident that hurt a member of the public, and the park wanting to move away from the issues they had with the hydraulic system. KK's closure seems to have come from the new corporate overlords of Six Flags, who may also have had the concerns about the ride. There are still loads of Intamin hydraulic launch coasters out there, as well as some Vekoma ones. New ones aren't being built, yes, but plenty of parks continue to run them without issue, including some 'smaller' ones. Stealth isn't some rare, last of its kind breed. Most importantly, Stealth runs pretty damn well. I don't think anyone would call it unreliable, because it's not. Cable changes are a swift process. The ride runs exactly as intended, and doesn't come across as a drain on resources. Given that there's still loads of hydraulic coasters around, getting parts manufactured won't be insanely costly. Everything points to it being fine. Stealth is still popular and draws crowds. It doesn't take up a huge amount of space. And there's other areas which can be used for future developments, and other attractions which could be torn down, long before Stealth should enter that conversation. Genuinely think it'll be fine for many years.

It has been 2 and a half years since I shared my favourite coasters on TPM, so let's fix that. These days, I've focused on sharing a "Top 10%", because I think that encapsulates the upper echelon of my rides, rather than a Top 10, which is very restrictive and reserved for the 'best of the best', and doesn't see as many additions. I'm currently on 408 coasters, so here's my Top 40... Rank Coaster Park 1 Toutatis Parc Asterix 2 Taron Phantasialand 3 Taiga Linnanmäki 4 Untamed Walibi Holland 5 Skyrush Hersheypark 6 Helix Liseberg 7 Oz'Iris Parc Asterix 8 Balder Liseberg 9 Lost Gravity Walibi Holland 10 Der Schwur des Kärnan Hansa Park 11 Phoenix Knoebels 12 Hyperia Thorpe Park 13 Jersey Devil Coaster Six Flags Great Adventure 14 Joris en de Draak (Water) Efteling 14 Joris en de Draak (Vuur) Efteling 15 Colossos - Kampf der Giganten Heide Park 16 Goliath Walibi Holland 17 Manta SeaWorld Abu Dhabi 18 Kingda Ka Six Flags Great Adventure 19 Candymonium Hersheypark 20 Nemesis Alton Towers 21 El Toro (SFGAd) Six Flags Great Adventure 22 Troy Toverland 23 Black Mamba Phantasialand 24 Mahuka Walibi Rhône-Alpes 25 Fønix Fårup Sommerland 26 Flying Aces Ferrari World Abu Dhabi 27 Hyperion Energylandia 28 Lisebergbanan Liseberg 29 Van Helsing's Factory Movie Park Germany 30 Pulsar Walibi Belgium 31 Juvelen Djurs Sommerland 32 Batman Gotham City Escape Parque Warner Madrid 33 Voltron Europa Park 34 Silver Star Europa Park 35 Shambhala PortAventura Park 36 Nitro (SFGAd) Six Flags Great Adventure 37 Nemesis Inferno Thorpe Park 38 Storm - The Dragon Legend TusenFryd 39 Colorado Adventure Phantasialand 40 The Storm Coaster Dubai Hills Mall Some scattered thoughts on the list... -Toutatis is incredible. That swing launch is brilliant, and the aggressive airtime throughout is my bag. -Taiga doesn't see much light in people's Top 10s or similar, likely because not as many people have ridden it. It's a crying shame. See Mark's thoughts above, I would just echo that. -Similar, Manta at Sea World Abu Dhabi would be talked about a lot as an elite coaster if more people had ridden it. -B&M Hypers are great rides, but they offer a very specific experience: a fun-filled, floaty, long ride experience. Very enjoyable, but not what I want. There's a very obvious trend with many of my top-top rides having airtime which flings you into your lapbar; B&M Hypers rarely do this with aggression, hence their ranking on the lower side. -Mahuka and Juvelen are excellent examples of the perfect family thrill coaster. I don't use the word perfect often. But these are rides which are that very definition. They're also quite low in terms of height, and the ride types have a lot of versatility. Their respective parks - moreso Djurs Sommerland - are extremely easy to get to as well. -We know height and speed aren't everything when it comes to coasters, but Kingda Ka shows that big and fast can be enough. RIP. (On the flip side, Red Force shows that big and fast can be a recipe for a rough ride which isn't worth its own time) -Voltron is incredibly intense, but I found that it wasn't exactly comfortable during any major turn / transition. It's a shame, as if it was more comfortable, it would be much higher up. -On that note, I haven't ridden Lost Gravity in 5 years. I fully expect that (along with some others in this list) to shift down the ranks following re-rides, especially as my tastes have developed and changed. But I only rank rides on the experiences I've had, and my rides on Lost Gravity were always glorious and I loved them so much. -Yes, Hyperia is that good to me. -And on a final note, Storm at TusenFryd. A Gerstlauer inverted swing launch coaster, which basically repeats the same 3 inversions through its layout. It sounds like a recipe for disaster, BUT it's a ton of fun. Another coaster that many won't ride, and understandably so (especially given TusenFryd's poor reputation, which from my experience, is unjustified...it's a lovely park). But if you get the chance, it's a lovely coaster.

Rumours started circulating online back in August, and the current ones indicate that it was a reasonably last minute decision, and that the decision to close it - and to not announce it until afterwards - came from corporate / above the park. I'm just as shocked that the park haven't properly announced Ka's replacement. I can understand some reasons behind not announcing it's closure ahead of time. But to do that and then not announce its replacement just smacks of low expectations for me. I know many found Ka rough or meh or whatever, but I genuinely really liked. Top 20 ride for me, simply because it's big and it's fast. Sometimes those primal feelings are all you need on a coaster. The word "iconic" is thrown around a lot these days. But Ka is iconic. It held the record for tallest coaster continuously and undisputedly for 19 years. Everyone who says they "like" theme parks / are a "theme park enthusiast" knows it. Heck, I'm sure that a large number of people who have ever visited a theme park would be able to identify that 'the world's tallest coaster is that one at Six Flags, right?'. It is genuinely saddening and disappointing that it has just been turned off and shut with no pomp and faff. It deserved it.

This is a very interesting topic, which has many layers and many moving parts. In short though, I don't think Merlin is a company in trouble. I do think it's a company which is going through many changes, though. Merlin Magic Making There's been a lot of misunderstanding going on about the MMM redundancies going around. What is happening is that Merlin Magic Making Studio North is closing down. Studios North is a studio which produces / builds things for Merlin, located by Alton Towers. It was effectively Merlin's own theming production company. But...Merlin don't use them much. For whatever reasons, it would regularly be cheaper to hire and work with external companies for those things. I don't really understand why. But it's been that way for years. But from small scale things (Alton Towers using Leek Signs to print larger signs) to medium things (Thorpe work with UVE to build Fright Nights mazes) to larger things (the Wicker Man statue for example), Merlin were using their own design studio less and less. There had to come a point where it became questionable for it to exist. It's of course incredibly sad for the staff involved. However, it should be stressed that Merlin Magic Making continues to exist, being the team that is involved in designing new rides for the parks, new experiences for the smaller attractions, etc. Those redundancies aren't making "creatives" (people who design rides) redundant. Another thing: very few theme parks have large dedicated teams to producing theming internally. It's almost always done externally for larger things, or done only for smaller things. Merlin was pretty unique in that. So it's not like they are falling behind or becoming worse compared to other parks / companies. Bear Grylls Adventure Bear Grylls Adventure is an interesting one. It had a good hook and idea, and when I went shortly after it opened, I was impressed with the experience. I do think it struggled to be marketed correctly though. Another thing, which most are likely unaware: Bear Grylls is incredibly popular in China. His 'brand', for lack of a better word, is huge. And, as we know, 10 years ago, Merlin was significantly interested in the Chinese market. In short, Bear Grylls Adventure opened in Birmingham as a tester attraction, so Merlin could learn how to operate it and maximise money in the Chinese market. The UK is a safer bet for the company to test things out, and easy for them to get people through the door (thanks to the Merlin Annual Pass). They did similar with Shrek's Adventure in London, and the Peter Rabbit Play experience in Blackpool. That does mean, however, the Merlin experiments with their "Gateway" (new name for "Midway") Attractions are clear to see for the UK market, including the associated failures. Gateway Closures In terms of closures of other Gateway Attractions, I'm aware of the following: -Little Big City Berlin and SeaLife Berlin -Madame Tussauds San Francisco I can offer a little bit of insight here. Little Big City is in a prime real estate position, located at the Berlin TV Tower. The rent is astronomical. It has done well for a number of years. However, it will struggle in Berlin in the current economic climate (where people are spending less). Berlin has lots of free sight-seeing things you can do, and many people will visit for the historical value of the city, or for the nightlife. With people spending less, LBC is a lot lower down on people's lists. Sea Life is located just round the corner, so again, hugely expensive, and again, will suffer the same issues as Little Big City. Berlin Dungeons will be attractive to people who visit Berlin, though, so that should be safe. San Francisco is a difficult market, and was interested at a time when Merlin were really pushing their expansion plans. It was seen as a risk, in the sense of "let's try, and if we fail, oh well, at least we've tried". That's the level of power and money Merlin have to play with. It should be said as well that there have been new Gateway Attractions that have opened in recent years too. Peppa Pig Theme Parks (which are more like big theme park areas) are doing well. Legoland Discovery Centre Brussels opened in 2022 and has been one of the most successful LDCs to date (possibly the most successful, I'm a little out of the loop there). Of course, the closures of attractions are awful for the staff that work there, but on the topic of Merlin as a company, I don't think it's as bad as it sounds when you just list out all the closures. Sea Lifes There are rumours - and I stress, just rumours - that the new CEO of Merlin is not a fan of zoos and aquaria. Those rumours don't make it clear whether that's from a business standpoint or a personal/moral standpoint. Regardless of the reason why, if that rumour is true, we could well see more Sea Life Centres close / be sold out of the Merlin estate. Two Big Issues This ramble about closing attractions has highlighted two major points which are very relevant to why Merlin are in the position they are currently in: 1. The economic landscape / the cost of living crisis, giving people much less disposable income 2. Merlin's shift in strategy and having to make large changes To address the second point first: as said, Merlin wanted to become the most visited theme park company in the world. To do that, they were expanding and expanding, and trying new markets, seeing what was happening and what would work. Inevitably, some would work, some wouldn't. And the ones that wouldn't, would have to close. San Francisco is a key example. Some of their Chinese ventures is another. But of course, dealing with those closures has financial implications which will be felt. On top of that, Merlin spent a long time looking into expanding in China. The Covid pandemic put a huge dent into those plans actually. On top of that, some of their early ventures out there stumbled through, meaning they had to spend longer sorting that out. However, they still have Legoland parks opening out there, with Legoland Shanghai opening next year Legolands The Legolands around the world have had mixed success. -Legoland Malaysia (opened in 2012) has done pretty well -Legoland Dubai (2016) does well in context of the UAE (and is technically owned by another company) -Legoland Japan (2017) opened in a poor location and has struggled. -Legoland New York (2021) was another poor location, and opening post-Covid and in a cost of living crisis has meant it's done poorly. -Legoland South Korea (2022) I know the least about, but again I imagine struggles right now because of the worldwide landscape. The Chinese Legolands (Shanghai and Sichuan) have been under development for a long time, and are in good locations. There's been a thirst and demand for Legolands in the country for a long time, and I believe Merlin learnt many lessons from Japan and New York, along with their previous ventures in China. From my understanding of those projects, I genuinely believe they have a huge chance of being very successful. But, there is a chance that the theme park boat has sailed in China now...certainly the expansion of parks, and attractions within parks, has slowed post-Covid. We will see. Cost of Living This is the big kicker. The entertainment and visitor attraction industry is being hit hard right now. Some parks are doing better than others, of course. But everywhere is feeling the squeeze. That should be acknowledged. Aramark I obviously can't provide any evidence, but I am under the impression that despite Aramark being a thing, Merlin are still very happy with the amount of money they get via Aramark. And it comes at the added convenience of not having to deal with that industry directly, so I think it is a win-win in their eyes. I completely agree that the price of food has spiralled and is too much in many - but not all - instances. At the same time, many theme parks have very expensive food options (Plopsaland and the Plopsa parks have more expensive and worse quality food than anything I've had at Merlin parks, for example). Compaigne des Alpes parks (Walibi and Parc Asterix) are quite expensive too, but broadly has the quality to much. The quality is a mixed bag. Thorpe's food offering is, in my opinion, better and more diverse now than it was in the years preceding Aramark coming in. Towers has gotten noticeably worse. Chessington and Legoland roughly the same. I'd say they're mostly all worse than, say, 15 years, but I wonder if that's a general industry trend. I do hope that Merlin/Aramark can address the cost of food. I appreciate it is hard to do so when prices are going up everywhere, but it is too much now, and I know plenty of people who bring their own food to parks these days. Universal I think I'm in a minority with this opinion, but I think that Universal coming to the UK will do nothing but good things for Merlin. I think that Legoland Windsor and Thorpe in particular will reap the most benefits. Universal, in all of its locations, is a premium product. As such, it comes at a premium price. Day tickets in the triple digits. I wouldn't be surprised if Universal GB has an Annual Pass costing £700. Compare that to Merlin's Annual Pass costing £200ish for multiple parks and loads of other attractions, and people will go "well, that's not bad". People will still visit Universal, of course, but they will see the value in Merlin when they can get an Annual Pass for the same price as a 2-3 day ticket. Yes, Universal's premium product will outshine Merlin's products. But people maybe won't mind that if the price is noticeably cheaper? And, plenty of people will come from abroad for Universal. Europeans will rather go to the UK than Orlando I'm sure. Plenty will fly into Heathrow and travel from there. I can certainly see people be happy to "add on" a day or two into London/Windsor, and potentially Legoland as a result. Those interested in theme parks more particularly will see Thorpe and consider that too. Obviously, that depends on how Thorpe play their cards with marketing, but they can definitely try and capitalise. I think the biggest issue will be in the short term when Universal look to hire staff. Not necessarily Creatives / Directors, as they'll come from people within the company already, but your Upper Managers, Engineers, Department Managers Team Leaders, etc. Heck, even your hosts. I'm sure there's plenty of staff within Merlin who are looking at Universal and going "I'd be happy to move towards Bedford and work for Universal. Even if I get paid the same, I'll get free tickets to Universal". And Universal will be happy to have people from within the UK with that experience come work for them. It will balance out, but could hit hard as it opens up. I'm making an assumption here that Universal will be a premium park with a premium price tag. Maybe they'll change for the UK market and offer something more in line with Merlin parks in terms of price. But when they've got a huge name to uphold, maybe not. But yeah, I genuinely think that Universal opening in the UK will offer nothing but good things for the UK theme park industry and for Merlin. Are Merlin in trouble? I think Merlin are going through many changes and have issues. That comes from the economic climate, the recent changes at the top and more. And there are a lot of changes behind the scenes (I'm aware of some redundancies that happened at a corporate level over the summer). I don't think it spells bad news for the wider company right now though.

If Thorpe get a Top Spin I will scream and cry and hate life.

So I've done some more digging. There's a fuller info piece on our site: https://www.thorpeparkmania.co.uk/index.php/2024/11/07/is-a-thorpe-park-hotel-about-to-start-construction/ In short, the hotel isn't planned to start construction yet. The park created a business case internally, and needed architects to create visuals. The company involved had on their website that construction would start in late 2024, but either this was incorrect or plans changed, and that has been removed. It will fit in with the park's development strategy. Simply put, we aren't seeing a hotel start building tomorrow. But it certainly seems the idea is alive again.

One of the over-riding conditions related to the Thorpe Hotel proposal - which has been in place since the park first looked into it almost 20 years ago(!!) - was that they wouldn't have more than 250 hotel rooms on site. I wonder if them looking into a smaller hotel means they're looking at keeping the Shark Cabins (which currently has 90 rooms, but permission for up to 184)? So that way they can have a budget option and a more expensive option. Also, having looked into the planning application a bit more - the current main hotel application is still valid and can be used for development.

Ehhhh, I wouldn't say it's the best area for rides. Putting a ride / rides in that area means it's literally slapped right into view, dead and centre, as you leave the Dome. Means it needs to be visually pleasing and high throughput, to fit into the park and handle the crowds. That minimises the amount of ride options. The space isn't that big. The whole Beach area and Depth Charge is about the same space as Stealth (the park's smallest coaster). You could create a densely packed ride in that space, btu again, visually, is it a good look when you enter the park? And it wouldn't be "another" stage, I'd imagine. It will be a permanent stage where all the shows / events can be based. And in doing that, they can have more money / tech dedicated to the production.

Interesting. The website suggests that the design was to continue in 2023, with construction starting in 2024. It says its subject to planning approval, but no new application related to the hotel has gone in in recent years. They do have permission granted for a hotel on that site, from almost 10 years ago, but I don't know the rules around all that as to whether that'd still be valid. A "proper" hotel should still be on the cards for the park, but it doesn't seem like it will be happening just yet.. Would be nice to be proved wrong. However, what I will say...I don't like the look of those images.

TPM article: https://www.thorpeparkmania.co.uk/index.php/2024/11/06/thorpe-park-submit-beach-replacement-plans/ Looks nice and smart and a good use of the space.

Moved this thread to The Future. We've got a few different threads going now for things related to the 2025 season, with our General 2025 Season thread, the Amity Beach work thread and now this. Happy to keep them separate for now though. --- As for Sparkle 2025, I think it's worth tempering expectations a bit, in the sense that nothing has been officially confirmed. Whilst the park did say they hoped / intended for the Sparkle Project to continue on in future years, it was never confirmed. And with the Thorpe Park Passholder Group closed, we've no way of finding out what the next step is. The park did say they intended to remove Slammer this winter, so that's something to keep an eye out for. Colossus obviously sits half repainted, so it will be interesting to see if the other half gets done. Things like Inferno and Rumba could definitely benefit from some attention. Even Swarm could too. As I say, I think it's worth tempering expectations, not just because we've got no confirmation that Sparkle 2025 is happening, but also because of murmurings of cuts. At present, that's just rumours, but I think there's never smoke without a bit of fire at least. And naturally, bits of TLC will be the first thing to get cut. Of course, whatever happens with the Beach could be considered part of a Sparkle project in itself, but I think that's worth treating as separate for now.

Lucifer's Lair has been an absolute crown jewel of Fright Nights this year. The atmosphere in the area resembles that of a scream park rather than a Halloween event at a theme park. The variety of shows makes it easy to re-visit on the same night, or just pass through. The amount of fire is wonderful. The actors and theme give the opportunity for a more dark humour and adult tone (whilst still keeping it PG given its an event anyone can visit), which isn't something that any other attraction on park achieves. It's been my favourite FN attraction both this year and last. But tonight, when the park was heaving, just to be able to spend time there, watch a couple of the shows and see the electric atmosphere that there was, really does show that this is a superb zone, and I really hope the park continues to run it in future Fright Nights.

There had been a fair amount of discourse about the "Final Beach Party" poster that appeared by DeadBeat... With the date being today, last day for season, and time being advertised as "8.25pm". There were some people expecting something to happen on the Beach at that time. There was a small gathering of people by the Beach at this time, but actors from the Creature Campus dance show told people the party had relocated to Stealth. At 8.30pm, the final Creature Campus show of the season played out as normal, no additions. Now, with work currently happening to dig up the Beach, it seems like something is happening there. And the aim of the poster is to tell us the Beach is going, with the time of "8.25pm" being a nod to "20.25", ie it being replaced for the 2025 season. Seems like it didn't gather enough steam to become an issue. But this is perhaps a cautionary tale for Thorpe to try to not be too clever with their Easter eggs... Also, does again seem to suggest we're seeing a Beach replacement in 2025. Again, with no indication of plans submitted, no tease beyond what we've got, and the location we have, I expect we're not in for a new ride. Flattening out the area and turning into a space for the stage, with permanent seating, would be a good option in my books.