JoshC.

The selection of VIP experiences for Fright Nights is live: https://www.thorpepark.com/explore/events/halloween-fright-nights/vip-experiences/ One which stood out to me is the "Phantom Four" package. It's access to all 4 mazes, once, with a VIP guide taking you through the maze. Whether that means you just go in as your group is unclear. It also allows you to skips the queues. The time slots suggest it will take around 90 minutes to go through the mazes (I guess with walking time, waiting for safety briefings, etc, that's pretty much to be expected), as opposed to the expected 4 hours if you normally buy them. Phantom Four costs £80 (or £64 for passholders), as opposed to £34-38 (£27.20 for passholders). So, effectively more than doubling the cost for Fastrack (and potentially smaller groups). Also, for anyone wanting unlimited maze entry (plus unlimited Fastrack, a VIP host, car parking, Pizza/Pasta buffet, Freestyle vessel and 1 hot drink), you can, for the small small price of £480pp.

The park's commercial and marketing directors have given an interview with Blooloop which explains their processes behind being a thrill-focused park and the benefits of the commercial focus they've had in recent years. It's a great read: https://blooloop.com/theme-park/opinion/thorpe-park-marketing-thrill-seekers/

After asking around a little bit, I'm under the impression now that the scheduled late ride openings is not budget cut related. The park aren't cutting staff hours / having less staff on park. Instead, the park are using the off peak days to further train staff - particularly engineers - allowing them be able to work on more rides. Usually this can only be done during closed season, or slowly, with only 1 or 2 people at a time. This allows more people to be trained at once. The park are simply seeing if this becomes a more effective way of training people, without damaging guest experience. A couple of rides opening a couple of hours later isn't ideal, but I guess if it doesn't have a notable negative impact on guest experience/feedback, and it allows staff to be multi-skilled and the park to run better on busier days / in the long run, I guess it's a good payoff. It's not a set in stone thing. But the key takeaway is this isn't a budget cut.

Parking IN the theme park would probably be a world's first, so you might be onto something...

Everyone's favourite Thorpe Park fansite will be checking out the latest developments this afternoon It's an interesting one. There's two possible options the way I see it: Option 1 - Beach tart up This is the boring option of the two. But the beach is over 30 years old and a shadow of its former self. It needs something doing to it. A tart up and making it more interesting and worthwhile, maybe a mini water park style area, would be nice. Option 2 - Demolition Get rid of the beach. It's a large space which is wasted. And whilst the park have loads of options to expand the park, and remove some rides, space is still reasonably premium at the park. And I think there's a perfect thing that area can be used for... Event space. Since the Arena was demolished (10 years ago!), the park haven't had a dedicated event space. And that was fine back then, as they didn't need one. But now, with the park's year round events, they could use one. Flattening the beach opens up a huge space for a stage, permanent seats and a more open, relaxed atmosphere. The park gets very crowded at the start of the day, before they open the gates at 10am. Opening up the beach area, maybe with some entertainment on a stage or screen, would help that crush. Throughout the year, they could hold events there. The space would be much better for Oktoberfest and Lucifer's Lair than by Ghost Train. A big Mardi Gras show is better there than in Big Easy Boulevard. During non-event times, they could still have the Ents team perform shows, or use the space like the Victory Plaza area they had where Stitches is (which showed the Euros and Olympics). Having a permanent stage/event space would also take some pressure off the Tech team for having to set up then take down a stage multiple times throughout the season. If the park wanted to keep the beach to some degree (it still has a lot of people enquire about it), they could tart up the smaller side of the beach and retain that. All the pumps, cleaning, etc feed in from the smaller side, so it would be easy to work. Plus a smaller beach is a lot easier to maintain. Obviously for now we're jumping the gun a bit. A digger means very little. They might just be doing the bare minimum maintenance work. But hopefully this is a sign of positive change in that area.

That's a really, really good point actually. The expectation on a paid maze is a lot higher. Those mazes from yesteryear which were so well received may be panned if they were in the line up today, because of that expectation, even if they are arguably just as good. I agree on the tour through a set at times actually. Trailers is a good example. The pre-show(s) spend so much time setting story up and showcasing the set, along with cramming so many Easter Eggs into the script (I think I rolled my eyes so hard during the first year I saw inside my head). Stitches is a very passive experience; it sets a very creepy tone and you see a lot of stuff happen, but that's just it...you are watching, not taking part. That's not necessarily a bad thing, as many mazes use that narrative. But you are just touring through. I think Mat made a good point about Tulleys - and other scare parks. They are, mostly, one entrance for unlimited runs of mazes. That's a huge difference in overall guest experience. And whilst there's none that are particularly close to Thorpe, the likes of Tulleys do compete with them. It's interesting that the park have chosen to move in the opposite direction, potentially driving some people towards that one-fee-unlimited-mazes model. On the other hand though, the park were increasing park entrance prices and charging Annual Passholders for entry into Fright Nights. Back in 2018/19, I think the park were charging around £35-50 online for a pre-booked ticket, and £5-20 for passholders. I would fully expect that the on the day, pre-book price following the same model would be £45-60 now for Fright Nights, and again £5-20 for passholders. At it's more expensive price, it's not much cheaper than these days. But still, if that's not resulting in a better time, there's a problem. I would love to step into an alternate reality where Covid never happened. What would have happened with Fright Nights? Would we have still seen upcharge mazes? Would scare zones have become a bigger thing? What would the overall reaction be?

I would personally love the park to experiment with a free indoor maze. It wouldn't be a case of just not charging for a maze. But a maze that is designed to be free in the current FN set up. So high throughput (maybe even continuous conga line style a la HHN), minimal actors but more triggered scares (sound effects, flashing lights, etc). It wouldn't be designed to be "as scary as" the other mazes, but just give you a flavour of them. Doing that gives people a gateway into Fright Nights. It might discourage some sales of tickets for mazes, but it might also encourage people to buy them on the day more. If it is a high throughput (a continuous conga line maze could easily get 1000-1500pph, making it the highest throughput attraction on park), it would still have a queue, but it would give people options. I don't imagine it would ever happen, given it would take a lot of resources and staffing still, which would be taken away from the paid mazes. And to the wider audience it might not be a good advert for paid mazes ("you've done this average maze, now pay more to do our scary ones!!"). But it is a bit of a pipedream of mine right now. I guess right now, Crows sort of fills that gap. It is more akin to an outdoor scare maze than a scare zone (narrow, singular route), just batched in huge groups. But a more controlled, indoor environment feeling more like a maze would be cool. One thing I do think though, is that the quality of the mazes has improved since they became upcharge. Not £10-worthy, but they are better. It's a difficult one. I'd rather what we've got last year than what we had a lot of in the previous decade. I genuinely think that if you put any one of last year's mazes, for example, in the Fright Nights line up anywhere from 2010-2019, it would be right up there as the highlight maze.

I'll just give a boatload of info here... -The park's maximum capacity is around 15,000. They can officially hold more, but there's internal H&S/operational considerations they go with. A "sold out" day will probably have around 14,000-15,000 people, as a buffer and also as some pre-booked guests don't turn up. --There's some caveats to this. A "sold out" day may have less people if they have ride closures, expecting certain types of guests, etc. Buy out days are obviously capped at less. -The quietest days I've known of have been less than 1,000. Very rare, but has happened. Last time I think that happened was like 8-10 years ago, when the park was open for a full week after FN. Those weekdays were dead. -These days, September weekdays are probably the quietest. You're probably looking at around a couple of thousand people. Even then, that will vary quite a lot day to day. The park can still feel quiet if there's 2,000 people on park or 4,000 people on park. -A standard weekend day will again vary significantly, likely around the 5,000-10,000 mark. -A "busy" day, in terms of how the park feels and copes, will likely be anything above 9,000 I'd say. It's an interesting situation that the park are in. 10-15 years ago, their weekends / "peak" days were heaving, and their off-peak days were dead. Like 10,000 might he standard on a weekend, and 1,000 on a weekday. The park wanted to increase attendance by increasing attendance on those quieter days. They have of course managed to increase attendance on quieter days, but it seems to be that people are choosing to visit on those days over busier days, as opposed to attracting more guests. That helps on an operational standpoint in that the park can plan more consistent staff levels. But it now means that the park, and staff, are less used to busier days. As I say, back in 2012, for example, 10,000 on a Saturday was normal and the park coped fine. These days, 10,000 on a Saturday is abnormal, in that it is more than usual. So that means the park doesn't operate as well, and it feels worse. It also means that when we hit those capacity days, it can hit even harder. I guess the big takeaway is that Thorpe, and indeed basically every theme park in the UK aside from Towers, hit small arena / stadium numbers. For a football example, we're looking at like League One/Two football matxh attendances (which are weekly things) on a daily basis.

Quick reveal: Straight off the bat, I like the splitting up of a quick reveal video, confirming what's at the event, and what each thing is, and a longer, story-focused video for the event. I'm sure in a year's time we'll hear stories of the months of preparation it took. So, to break down the event. New maze for 2024 - Deadbeat "New for 2024! It's two minutes to midnight, and the clock is ticking. Will you surrender willingly or dance the night away, embracing what may well be your final night on earth? But beware this is no ordinary venue—here, the music doesn’t soothe the soul; it devours it." Solid concept. I have expectations that I won't enjoy it, because it seems like it will be a strobe-heavy focus maze. I also have reservations about how a standard maze can justifiably be an £10 upcharge in that space, but we will see what happens (there could be surprises after all). Also seems like there's a lot of threads in the maze: nightclub, ghostly entity (called The Visceral it seems), zombified people, etc. Will be interest how they tie it all together and communicate it within a 5-8 minute experience. Also seems to be another reason for the "terrifying new lows" tagline, as the park seem to be putting a spin on 'getting high at nightclub' by saying you will experience an "all time low". Trailers is returning with new scenes. Seems to be a Platform 15 room and a Creek Freak room (or potentially an Old Town room combining the two). Wonder what they'll scrap. Previous rumours suggested the Big Top room, which tbf has a lot of space. Survival Games, Stitches, Crows and Lucifer's Lair all returning. Creature Campus returning as "new", with the tagline "Looks can kill!". The website says that Gorgons, led by Medusa, are on the scene to tackle the witches. No mention of vampires or werewolves. I guess in story, they were basically defeated last year, so it could be they won't return this year / ever again in the ongoing storyline. Also the IT 4D experience comes to Thorpe. Good use of the cinema. Good 4D film (I've seen it before at other parks, assuming it's the same). Adds extra to the line up. Currently set to run every 30 minutes from 3pm, will be interesting if that changes. It's a good line up. There will be complaints about the cost of the upcharge. Ultimately, I have no problem with paying for mazes if they have quality that reflects that. I will bang on about this every single time, but when I went to Walibi Holland's Halloween event, with admission and for all the experiences, it cost me about 90 euros. These days, it would cost over 100. But I had no problem as the quality was there. The issue Thorpe face is simple though: is the quality there to justify the cost. No Thorpe maze last year was worth £10 in my books. £5-7.50 is the range we're looking at. And that doesn't even address the inconsistencies the mazes have. Hopefully the park can continue to increase the quality of the mazes, as well as the consistency of them. No use having a maze worth £10 if it only runs like that every other day. I'm happy with the number of free things across the park. Crows is like an outdoor maze as opposed to a scare zone. If they can build on last year's successes I'd be very happy. Lucifer's Lair is a great central entertainment hub. Creature Campus is a show which is well received (it would be nice to see them roam outside of show times more though). I see your point, but I don't think it's that bad. Fearstival Arena has grown into Lucifer's Lair. You had Amity High and LycanThorpe High in separate areas, but the Lycans scare zone was basically dead. They've been merged into one. Creak Freaks Unchained was great in its first year, but meh in the second. The Crows replaces the gap that that left. Swarm Invasion (in both years) was just an extension to the story line of Swarm. Lovely to see, but it never felt like a scare zone. I think a mix of mazes and scare zones is the way to go, and a mix of free and upcharge attractions too. But we have 4 paid mazes and 3 free scare zones, plus a 4D film. That's a really good mix, and certainly a lot more than many other theme parks offer (something which is easy to forget). Again though, as I say, the only way this really is a success is if the mazes are worth £10 a pop. We'll see what happens.

They should just do a Phantasialand and put a roller coaster through the hotel

I guess it's 11 years old now, but - until Jumanji - it was the newest big thing. So that gives it this feeling of being new-ish still. Bluntly put, the experience was a bit rubbish. I wonder if there's a logic of "this ride scores lowly in guest reviews, let's close it to increase the average guest experience and save money". But then of course, as Inferno says, they still have to tend to the animals anyway, so they're a sunk cost if the whole attraction is closed. There have been rumours that the park are considering scaling back in the zoo / animals on park. A closure of Zufari, leading to the associated animals being moved elsewhere, would therefore fit in with that. The thing with the removal of animals is that whilst it would save on running costs, the park still need to fill the voids they'd leave, which would also be very expensive. It's certainly an...interesting time at Chessington.

Jack Silkstone's Fright Nights 2023 Behind the Scene documentary is now live: It is again primarily focused on his, Kieran and Archie's journey and involvement with the marketing videos, giving insight into how they made the set, did the filming etc. And then some general bits about the event, SLKSTN Unlocked, wrap party, etc. There's a little bit about the build of Stitches, but not a lot. I'd love to see more of a focus on the maze building side of things, but heyho, beggars can't be choosers. As always, the amount of effort that was put into the trailer campaign is insane. It's incredible to see such level of detail put into it. I again question the worth of some of the effort - it feels a bit misplaced to, say, spend hours making a design for a toy box that is seen for 10 seconds in a trailer video in my opinion. Especially when that level of detail and effort isn't necessarily translated into overall guest experience of the event. One thing I've had specifically mixed feelings on is the 'headline character' creations from the past couple of years. We had Fear (2021), The Locksmith (2022) and the Toymaker (2023). It's shown they build in quite detailed backstories for them, much of which isn't communicated. I think that's great tbf; the worldbuilding behind the scenes is critical for creatives to build something which feels real to an audience. But it would help create such a stronger connect between the trailers and the experience if the headline character was a part of the event. They did a step with that this year, with the Toymaker appearing in a VIP experience and her voice being used in Stitches. But it would be amazing if they could have the headline character physically be a part of the event. It's difficult as it either means an actor being in a full (masked) costume or heavily make-up-ed, or having different looking-actors play the same character, or rely on 1 actor to do all the dates. But it would genuinely have such a good pay off in my opinion. If they also created a headline character which remained constant each year (a curator of FN if you will), that would be awesome and build a more consistent brand. You only have to look at Walibi Holland's Fright Nights successes with Eddie de Clown to realise the potential. That's just a me-want though. For me personally, I was watching the documentary and hearing them go "we spent *insert insane time period here* doing this", and my instant reaction is "Wow, all that time for...that?" Maybe there's a naivety from me about the amount of time required to do these things, or I have my own pre-conceptions after having flirted with the scare industry myself, but it all just feels like a ton of effort for so little guest reward. Jack has been quite open about his want to work on Fright Nights in a larger role, be it by means of a broader creative aspect, designing a maze or similar. And it feels like, together with the park and UVE, they're building towards that, with greater creative control giving to Jack et al on the marketing, them building the set themselves, etc. Certainly would be cool to see: the passion and creativity is there. From a human aspect, I still wonder the sustainability of that: the amount of work put in is clearly a labour of love, but seems all-consuming. The workload would increase ten-fold creating a whole maze / being a creative. But it's clear that they have the potential to create something cool. I fear this post may come across as a bit of a negative nancy or whiny or something. It's not. It's great to get an insight into the world of FN coming to life in a clear way. The documentary itself is incredible. And it's great there's people with so much passion contributing to the event. And with the event growing, the enthusiast community growing and more roles in the industry coming to life, that will continue. I just hope we see it get reflected in the final product.

Following Jack Silkstone's documentary, it seems that an announcement / teaser is coming tomorrow. We've also got some form of logo:

Aside from Hyperia and Ghost Train, none of the Thorpe rides have had an entrance staff for years. Even then, their entrance staff disappeared once the initial cluster hype disappeared.

It's interesting, as Thorpe have been through a huge period of stability with their management / leadership team. This isn't like the late 2010s when the management positions started to look like revolving doors. I do also think that that stability has become apparent too. The park's direction feels clearer and less flip-flop-y. It certainly seems like they have an all round good leadership team in place now. But still, we're in this position where they're making the same mistakes as before. I wonder if that comes from the very top, with a newer exec who haven't learnt the problems of the past. I remain somewhat cautious about the quote that O'Neil "implied that he may not have made those decisions.". Implications are a dangerous thing to make, and without seeing his exact words (I cba to set up a Bloomberg account to see it), we're just looking at Ride Rater's interpretation. All I'm saying here is: it's a dangerous game to pin a claim based on someone's interpretation of an implication. That could be what he meant. That could be what he said, but didn't mean. That could just not be what he meant at all. Even at the end of the closed season, there was no guarantee from the park that Sparkle would continue. There were certainly "intentions", "plans", "hopes" and all those other non-committal words. It seems like the park learnt from past guarantees (Tidal Wave fire), but it's clearly been the plan, given Colossus' paint job for example. But yeah, if it doesn't return / we don't see further glow ups across the park, it's certainly an indication of money going away from the park. I just hope we're not put into a "Swarm situation", where the big shots go "Well, Hyperia wasn't an instant success for the park so we're not investing big in you for the next decade, have fun bye"

A stupid post in a quiet topic is passable, but if you're not going to meaningfully contribute to a topic with genuine discussion occurring we'll just throw the banhammer your way.

I wouldn't say so, for now at least. The event hasn't seen any cuts in terms of dates or hours. A new maze is still happening (which has been the standard for several years now). Seems to more be a creative choice. Where has this been said? Not saying he hasn't said that (as I've heard this before), but where has he been quoted as saying this? Or is it just a 'one the grapevine' type thing

I guess the bigger question right now is...why? We're seeing this at Towers and now, to do a subtler degree, Thorpe. Why? Are those above the theme parks pulling money away from them? Have Thorpe/Towers not been as successful as hoped this year, given the new coasters they've invested in? Is there something else happening? It certainly is cause for a suspicious eyebrow to be raised.

Likely the same as last year: Crows roaming 3pm-4.30pm (ish), actors getting a short break, then heading to the scare zone. Whilst Mawkin Meadow hasn't "officially" been confirmed as returning, it featuring on the VIP Make Your Mark offering confirms it will return. The pathway was shut off today for construction, which is about the same sort of time it would close. As for roaming actors: I can take them or leave them. They're a nice extra, but I didn't like when Thorpe specifically listed them as an "attraction". Through no fault of a guest, you can go about your day and have no clue of a roaming cast's existence, simply because you never cross their path. And with scare zones and a more balanced spread of attractions across the park, roamers aren't a be all and end all. I'm reckoning with a 4th maze Death's Doors (which effectively operated a small, outdoor maze) has been cut with no like-for-like (ie scare zone) replacement. So that would leave a line up of 4 indoor mazes (Trailers, Survival Games, Stitches, New One), 1 outdoor scare "zone"/walkthrough (Crows) and 2 scare/entertainment/show zones (whatever Amity High is called this year and whatever takes place in Lucifer's Lair). I'd fully expect them to just carry on the Amity High story in one way or another (as Creature Campus 2: Electric Boogaloo), and Lucifer's Lair was a little gem of last Fright Nights, so would be great to return. With just under a month to go, there's a fair bit to do, but no more or less than they've been in other situations really (depending on how the 4th maze is going). The interesting thing is the park still haven't made an announcement. In the past several years, the full announcement would have been made by this point. Here's the dates when we had a full, confirmed line for the last several years: 2023: 31st August 2022: 31st August 2021: 26th August 2020: 3rd September 2019: 3rd September 2018: 11th September (technically, but they added in a "surprise, but not a surprise" maze on the 21st) 2017: 5th September So we're creeping towards 2018 territory with an announcement...hopefully we're not getting 2018 quality. It's interesting as the last couple of years have of course had a big teaser campaign with multiple videos crafted by Jack/Kieran. They certainly had their pros, but also some cons too. A change of pace is nice to see them experiment with if nothing else. To be fair, I expect for a majority of the audience, they don't care about the line until around now, when they're considering their visits. And even then, specifics aren't of much interest until much closer. In terms of a full line up reveal, I've seen Friday thrown about as a suggestion. It's Friday 13th (spooky), and the day after Jack releases his 'Behind the Scenes of 2023 Fright Nights'. So it fits.

Not sure on an exact time, but 9am is a pretty reasonably shout. If you want an exact answer, Thorpe are reasonably responsive on Twitter currently; they'd give an exact answer.

I've noticed this a couple of times lately. Vortex usually being the culprit. Yet even on the app it is listed as a 10am opening. It's mixed signals, but it effectively seems to be their way of saying "It hasn't opened yet, but will do later". The park seem to come up with these new ideas for communicating "Ride not open" every couple of years. Or even just communicating queue times. We've seen "90+ min" queue times. Closed. Delayed. Open later. Unavailable. Coming soon. Weather delay. Cleaning. Etc etc. All of those phrases used to say a ride isn't open. It seems to be the buzz every so often to find a way to minimise impact of ride closures and how they are communicated. Obviously the root cause of the issue is that the rides are closing, and that should be addressed. But there we go. The amount of rides not open though is a cause for a raised eyebrow.

I've found in my rides that the middle rows (especially rows 5-8) seem to be the most intense, and also ones which seem to have more of a vibration, which could turn into the dreaded Mack rattle. So far it hasn't negatively impacted my enjoyment of the ride, but it certainly has potential to, and I can see why people don't like it. It is confusing though; I can't think of any ride where the middle of the train is notably more intense

I keep forgetting that we don't have a general "Thorpe Park 2024" thread, or an Oktoberfest thread. So I'll stick my review in here for Oktoberfest It's kind of apt too, as you'd think that Thorpe have forgotten they have an Oktoberfest event going on. Oktoberfest came about in 2020 and whilst it was rough round the edges, it had potential. It's pretty much been the awkward middle child since 2021 though. It got better, but now it just feels a bit thrown together and rubbish. The Oktoberfest area is basically to the left of Ghost Train's entrance, with the stage, the ski lift carrier turned benches (which are pretty cool) returning, as well as snow-covered...Christmas trees? The event is leaning heavily on the more Bavarian Alps theme. By which I mean, it's the primary focus. The main Thorpe show revolves around it (the actors run a "fashion show" with what one of them should wear to go skiing). There's a set of roaming actors at set times who are "on skis". And my god, the show makes me cringe. The dance elements are good for what it is. But the speaking. It feels like the actors were told to watch Allo Allo and just copy the German accents. It's grating. Also, the Christmas trees. Why? The confused "Why is it Christmas?" vibe isn't helped by this song playing at the start of the family stage show: Hilarious. I should add: I believe in story, the actors are called the Furchtbar Gang. That's what it sounds like at least. "Furchtbar" is German for "terrible". So I guess the point is that they are terrible? Or meant to be terrible? But they're not - as I say, the dance elements make the grade. I don't get it. There's a couple of the pop up food places alongside Ghost Train's queue, which will no doubt stay through Fright Nights, and a bratwurst grill in Amity. There's a pitiful-looking bratwurst pizza available from Pizza-Pasta. In truth, Thorpe's Oktoberfest has never done it for me. Maybe I just don't like fun. So maybe this is doing the job, getting good reactions and there's a wider audience who love it. But it does feel like its been scaled back the last 2-3 years, and as nice as it is to get an extra boost during September, maybe it's time to lay it to rest.

From what I understand, it was actually just a typo, and was always set to be just the 4 days. So ladies and gents, boys and girls, make sure to proof read your work!

On the other side of the coin, the park haven't needed to do much planned maintenance to rides before. Arguably, as a seasonal park open mid-to-late March to early-November, they shouldn't need it either. But yes, it is good to see them being open. I do think there should be some discount in entrance price for 23rd-27th though; 2 major coasters closed? Big ouch.