pluk

Yes. The forum approves!

Not many things actually make me laugh out loud, but... (if a dead animal disturbs you, leave it spoilered!)

I totally get what you are saying Ian, and it's not unreasonable at all. Just watched the BBC news (because why are people ever watching sky 'news'?!) which had a report on the Smiler, still in the main bulletin. They mentioned that Merlin have delivered letters to all the victims ... Quite a different and pleasant approach compared to 6 flags when their Gurst killed someone on New Texas Giant, who went massively on the offensive and tried to shift blame pretty much from the moment it happened. When I first heard the Merlin announcement I thought it sounded a lot like they had found it was their procedures, not the ride systems, that had been the cause. But the first few words still leave that matter open and it could be that they are doing this just because it is the right thing to do, and if it later transpires it was a fault with the machine and not Alton they can go chasing Gurst through the courts to get the money paid out back from them. It'd be hard to criticise pretty much anything Merlin have done since the incident really.

Good, think this is about time. The continuation of the closure had started to be reputation damaging in itself, suggesting a more widespread safety issue across the park which we know is not the case.

A rather good response to The Smiler incident from Adventure Island, with a fairly reassuring piece they did for breakfast tv on their facebook page.

Dreamland have announced the Scenic will not open with the rest of the park later this month, as the trains are not ready. I'm really a big fan of the project, but this is a bit disastrous. I can't see many people bothering without it, so the park will sit there losing money and gaining a bad reputation. Would be much better of delaying the whole thing until it's ready. Hopefully it won't be for too long, but rather ominously they haven't given a likely opening date yet.

If I may wander off topic for a mo, I don't think the political leaning of a paper is necessarily indicative of its quality. It's hard to argue the Mirror is any less obnoxious than the Sun. It has been frustrating seeing the sensationalist nonsense being churned out and lapped up, a bit of balance and sense would be nice. The general public don't really have a hope of understanding what has actually happened and forming an informed and rational opinion on ride safety in general with all this being thrown at them. Surprisingly, one of the most informative and level headed articles I've read on the incident is this one, looking at some of the financial implications, which is from the (usually worst of the bunch) Daily Mail.

They have been mentioned, especially in the link to Saw the ride and from the H&Se report confirming their involvement. But you'd think their link to the fatal Texas Giant incident would have been brought up for reasons of sensationalism by now.

I don't think a theory that they know something about the incident today that they dd not know yesterday causing confirmed related ride closures on rides that were not closed yesterday is going to rock many boats.

How did I miss this?! Just for balance, I'm pretty well off and I don't buy fastrack or VIP because it is an obnoxious force for bad. It's morals, not money. When other people are looking at you like that I can assure you it's not jealously in their eyes.

From the circumstances of The Smiler crash I would guess it is more to do with the evacuation and response to breakdown/valleying incidents than it is to general day to day operating of the ride itself.

That interview is vile. This happens so frequently, but people still inexplicably return to view Sky. I don't get it. So, we still have no idea what happened, mostly because that useless journalist wouldn't lit him tell us.

A bit of a sideways thought I suppose, but I wonder if The Smiler incident could have any bearing on the future of Slammer in a Merlin that I'm sure will be running away from any risk at an almighty pace for the foreseeable future? With all the construction issues that followed on into the opening season I always got the impression they ran The Smiler with a slight feeling of cautiousness. Not to say they actually thought it was unsafe of course, more that they had done enough to satisfy themselves it was fine rather than having an inherent trust in the ride. I get the same feeling about Slammer. It clearly is a ride near the edge, and they have done what needs doing to ensure it is safe within any foreseeable circumstance. But with the half day checks and very cautious operating they clearly do not have total faith in it. I now more than ever suspect its days are numbered.

Block heavy. Cause now established, weren't establish yesterday, is my theory. Back to Saw, I wonder how Lionsgate will view the rides very public association with this incident? Could it affect the renewal of any licencing agreement between them and the park? Would be a shame if it did really.

With the closure of other rides it seems they have finally worked out precisely who this incident was able to occur. Not wanting to speculate needlessly, but I think the closure of other block heavy rides specifically for 'updated procedures' to be implemented points rather heavily to the initial incident having been 'human error', in that someone did something to start the train on its course, but that that person was actually following procedures as they had been trained to do. While I'm sure the initial closure was seen as a necessity I think this park-wide prolonged closure is doing more harm than good now. It's really dragging the story out in the media, and screams out that the whole park is unsafe when we know that isn't the case. If H&Se were forcing the park to remain closed they would surely close all Merlin parks; the operational procedures do not vary wildly between the parks so if they believed they were fundamentally flawed and unsafe they'd close the lot.

I can't really agree with that. Saw and Smiler both have a complex automated block system with multiple cars on the track. The others don't (well, they kind of do but its not really being used one one train opporaration). From what we do know about the incident it cannot be attributed to an actual break failure, which would maybe show a need for a wider closure. How far do you take it? It might be Gurst software that caused it, so shut all the flats too just I case? There's no way to eliminate all risk, but closing these coasters based on this incident would be overkill. Id happily go on Rage right now.

Alton Towers Smiler crash: 999 call made 11 minutes afterwards Really not showing the parks initial response to the incident in the best light. Could it really have taken them that long to realise this was not just another stall or breakdown?

May or may not be related. If they use the same systems for block control, and they truly do not understand how the crash happened, it would be the right thing to do until they know it's safe.

Nick Varney quoted on the BBC this morning...

While these points are true, they will still be pretty much just as much of an issue when the park does reopen. It's just delaying those things. X sector will be off limits for a while, I'm quite sure. I'm not criticising them for closing, but wonder if it really is the best thing to have done.

Towers have tweeted that they can not say for sure if the park will open tomorrow. I find the decision to shut the whole park a strange one. It may well be the right thing to do, but part of me feels it will be viewed by the public as an indication of a wider problem affecting the whole park's safety that needs rectifying before reopening, rather than an isolated issue with one specific ride which has caused this incident.

Id love to see a video of the bit where it stops on inversion 5 before being released. It's almost like they make this stuff up.

This happened while I was at work and I've only caught a few snippets of it throughout the evening. It is just shocking, something that should never ever occur. It's mind boggling that it has been able to. Thoughts have to be with those injured, that witnessed it, the staff that responded and the emergency service workers, who all must have seen some sights today, things that will live with each and every one of them for years to come. Without going through all of what has gone before, I've noticed some comment about it being disrespectful to speculate about how this has happened and what the consequences will be. I can't see there's anything particularly wrong with this as long as it is done in a respectful and non sensationalist way. None of us can know what has happened, so lets not think we do, but it is human nature to want to understand. When I first heard about it I presumed it was a break run coming together at low speed. I realised it was something more serious when I first saw the video now about half way down the BBC website article; the force that must have been involved to move that stationary ride vehicle so far along the inclined track must be huge. Sadly I fairly regularly see the results of high speed impacts first hand through RTC's and the like at work and my first thought was that the front row would all have very serious leg impact injuries, or most probably losses. Having since seen the pictures and video from other angles it seems the front of the laden carriage is pretty well embedded into the back of the other one. I fear the DM article will turn out to be accurate and I would expect more bad news to come. As for how it can have happened, I'm sure it will have been a culmination of a series of errors rather than a single thing. It should be very difficult indeed to put the system into a position where this is possible with or without passengers. The first thing I thought as odd was towards the end of that same BBC video as the camera pans away it shows that there was another stalled train on the second half of the track, so two stalls at once. Could it be possible that the first stall has triggered a shut down, the second stall has happened simultaneously, so when it has come to the evac the operators have decided to move the train on from the first lift hill to get it to the vertical lift brake run rather than evacuate at height, thinking they were only dealing with the second stall? That would account for an element of system override human error coupled with a system allowing something that should not be allowed that I think will both be present. Just a theory. I struggle to think of another logical series of events that make it possible. I'm pretty sure the full details will come out in the coming weeks. I wonder what The Smiler has actually cost towers beyond the build cost? A whole season of disruption, other bad press incidents and now this. I've no doubt it'll open again at some point, but would be surprised if it was this season, and when it does I wonder what restrictions they will place on number of cars on track, will it be forever on a reduced capacity? The H&S executive investigating officers will have locked the site down for now, until it's released back to the park and they are able to remove the trains I'd expect the whole of X Sector to be closed. I think the park have handled this just about as well as they could have done since it occurred and I hope they continue with their honesty and display of genuine remorse, I'm sure it will help a lot in regaining the publics trust of the brand

I'm sure the powers of Gurst and Merlin have a pretty good idea of how this incident happened already, I'd imagine if it is something that could be repeated under the same circumstances on Saw (or other Eurofighters/Enigmas) they'll close for whatever upgrade is necessary. I'm also sure if they don't have to shut Saw then they won't, the last thing they'd want is for the media or public to link the Smiler event with other rides; it'll be damaging enough for Towers without it tarnishing other parks in the public's mind.