Matt N

I’m not sure whether this is necessarily true; if a hyper above 235ft in height (I know RCDB says Big One is 213ft, but the park claims 235ft, so it would probably be best to aim for that figure) were to be built, it would become the UK’s tallest roller coaster, and possibly fastest as well dependent on how high it was built; a hyper with a drop of above about 230ft or so would likely exceed Stealth’s 80mph. A hyper of this size would also be in with a fair shot at claiming the UK length record (it’s technically now held by the Big One at 5,497ft, as the Ultimate is SBNO).
 
Even though a ride like this wouldn’t have a world’s first per se, I think that “the tallest & fastest coaster in the UK”, or even “the tallest, fastest and longest coaster in the UK” if they fancied beating the Big One’s length record, would be incredibly marketable and would make a big splash within the UK industry; look at the likes of Smiler, Big One, the Ultimate, even Thorpe’s own Colossus, Stealth and Saw. These rides all had either national or worldwide records at the time of opening, and they were all incredibly popular. Rightly or wrongly, I think records sell in Britain, and based on the likes of Smiler (no real world’s first besides the record), I’d argue that a UK record breaker would be a pretty compelling sell to Merlin.
 
In terms of whether the lack of inversions would make it seem tame; the likes of Big One and Stealth have certainly coped fine in terms of public opinion and reputation even without inversions, so I’m confident that a Thorpe hyper would be the same, personally.
 
A hyper may not have a gimmick in the traditional Merlin sense, but I think it would be equally as marketable!

Blackpool's situation was arguably very different.
 
Prior to 1994, they had a collection of old woodies and a couple of mid-range thrill coasters. Perhaps their most thrilling ride at the time was Revolution. 
The introduction of Big One was a marked step up. It was meant to be something which dwarfed the rest of the park, but not overshadow them. (Realise now my wording in previous post could have been better). Big One was the 'extreme, large scale, big boy' ride. The other rides were thrilling and fun, but could easily be said to be a level below Big One.
 
At Thorpe, you have Colossus, Inferno, Stealth, Saw and Swarm. A quintet of big, extreme rides. You can certainly argue amongst those there's some which are 'bigger'/'more intense'/'more extreme' than the others, but they all have that 'large scale, big boy' ride aura. 
So creating a ride that is physically bigger than all of them could create a suggestion that it's a "step up" from all of them, especially in a park as small as Thorpe where it's easy to compare everything.
 
It doesn't rule out a hyper. And I'm sure there's plenty of parks, including Blackpool, who have come to this hurdle and tackled it one way or another. But it's certainly something that needs to be carefully considered if one was to come, both from a design and marketing perspective. 

Yeah it's a real conundrum isn't it? In an Ideal world they should of left Bubbleworks alone and when the new proposed coaster would open in the current picnic area would be the perfect time to bulldoze transylvania (minus trees) to get ready for a new dark ride. Could also plan on getting rid of Tomb Blaster as well as that's been on its last legs for a while now.

Latest Valhalla previews from BPB;
 

 

 

 
Source: https://twitter.com/Pleasure_Beach
 
It's not a lot to go off, but nice that they're starting to build a little bit of hype.  I do hope they go big on the marketing for its reopening - time will tell I guess.
 

Couldn’t they just aim the high points of the ride away from Staines and towards the back corner of the park? If they did that, surely that might overcome some of the problems?
 
I’ve often heard it said that Thorpe could run a hyper around the back of the park from Old Town/the Logger’s Leap site, with the main body of the ride itself running along the service road around the back of the park.
 
For what it’s worth, John Wardley even said that a hyper would be doable within Thorpe’s planning restrictions.
 
In terms of where Wardley said this, it was a comment made within Making Thorpe Park regarding a B&M Hyper that Wardley and B&M had strategised for a 2012 coaster instead of The Swarm. The source was cited as an interview with John Wardley himself conducted as part of the research for the book (the source is cited as “Interview with John Wardley, 20 July 2020” in the book’s bibliography). Here’s the exact comment; the relevant part is in bold: “When [B&M] was approached to suggest ideas for the first of the new development islands, they were strongly against using the new Wing model. The flat piece of land didn’t really play to the strengths of the concept, and Wardley felt that a different B&M option should be used instead. His preference was a Hyper Coaster, a tall ride that offers high speeds and massive airtime. Having good knowledge of local planning restrictions, he was confident that permission would be agreed and it would be the perfect complement to the four major rollercoasters already in operation at Thorpe Park.”
For context, this would have been a few years after Stealth, perhaps around 2009-2010.   Thorpe’s height ceiling is 500ft, apparently, with structures over 200ft needing to apply to the CAA for approval (due to Heathrow being close by). While I’ll admit that a 500ft coaster seems like a long shot in terms of approval, I don’t see them struggling too much with a hyper in the 200-250ft range, personally. As much as Stealth may have required special permission at the time, I’d argue that it may well have set a precedent for the minimum height that Thorpe would be allowed to build a coaster to; if a coaster of Stealth’s size or a little bit taller encountered issues, then the park could quite feasibly say “We’ve operated Stealth at 205ft for 15 years with no issues” to defend themselves and make a case for the approval of a hyper coaster.

Welcome to the forum Matt. I'm loving your discussion points at the moment, thank you for teaching this old man something. I had no idea a B&M hyper was once considered where The Swarm is.
 
And I've been on Thorpe Park forums for nigh on 18 years.

Couldn’t they just aim the high points of the ride away from Staines and towards the back corner of the park? If they did that, surely that might overcome some of the problems?
 
I’ve often heard it said that Thorpe could run a hyper around the back of the park from Old Town/the Logger’s Leap site, with the main body of the ride itself running along the service road around the back of the park.
 
For what it’s worth, John Wardley even said that a hyper would be doable within Thorpe’s planning restrictions.
 
In terms of where Wardley said this, it was a comment made within Making Thorpe Park regarding a B&M Hyper that Wardley and B&M had strategised for a 2012 coaster instead of The Swarm. The source was cited as an interview with John Wardley himself conducted as part of the research for the book (the source is cited as “Interview with John Wardley, 20 July 2020” in the book’s bibliography). Here’s the exact comment; the relevant part is in bold: “When [B&M] was approached to suggest ideas for the first of the new development islands, they were strongly against using the new Wing model. The flat piece of land didn’t really play to the strengths of the concept, and Wardley felt that a different B&M option should be used instead. His preference was a Hyper Coaster, a tall ride that offers high speeds and massive airtime. Having good knowledge of local planning restrictions, he was confident that permission would be agreed and it would be the perfect complement to the four major rollercoasters already in operation at Thorpe Park.”
For context, this would have been a few years after Stealth, perhaps around 2009-2010.   Thorpe’s height ceiling is 500ft, apparently, with structures over 200ft needing to apply to the CAA for approval (due to Heathrow being close by). While I’ll admit that a 500ft coaster seems like a long shot in terms of approval, I don’t see them struggling too much with a hyper in the 200-250ft range, personally. As much as Stealth may have required special permission at the time, I’d argue that it may well have set a precedent for the minimum height that Thorpe would be allowed to build a coaster to; if a coaster of Stealth’s size or a little bit taller encountered issues, then the park could quite feasibly say “We’ve operated Stealth at 205ft for 15 years with no issues” to defend themselves and make a case for the approval of a hyper coaster.

Couldn’t they just aim the high points of the ride away from Staines and towards the back corner of the park? If they did that, surely that might overcome some of the problems?
 
I’ve often heard it said that Thorpe could run a hyper around the back of the park from Old Town/the Logger’s Leap site, with the main body of the ride itself running along the service road around the back of the park.
 
For what it’s worth, John Wardley even said that a hyper would be doable within Thorpe’s planning restrictions.
 
In terms of where Wardley said this, it was a comment made within Making Thorpe Park regarding a B&M Hyper that Wardley and B&M had strategised for a 2012 coaster instead of The Swarm. The source was cited as an interview with John Wardley himself conducted as part of the research for the book (the source is cited as “Interview with John Wardley, 20 July 2020” in the book’s bibliography). Here’s the exact comment; the relevant part is in bold: “When [B&M] was approached to suggest ideas for the first of the new development islands, they were strongly against using the new Wing model. The flat piece of land didn’t really play to the strengths of the concept, and Wardley felt that a different B&M option should be used instead. His preference was a Hyper Coaster, a tall ride that offers high speeds and massive airtime. Having good knowledge of local planning restrictions, he was confident that permission would be agreed and it would be the perfect complement to the four major rollercoasters already in operation at Thorpe Park.”
For context, this would have been a few years after Stealth, perhaps around 2009-2010.   Thorpe’s height ceiling is 500ft, apparently, with structures over 200ft needing to apply to the CAA for approval (due to Heathrow being close by). While I’ll admit that a 500ft coaster seems like a long shot in terms of approval, I don’t see them struggling too much with a hyper in the 200-250ft range, personally. As much as Stealth may have required special permission at the time, I’d argue that it may well have set a precedent for the minimum height that Thorpe would be allowed to build a coaster to; if a coaster of Stealth’s size or a little bit taller encountered issues, then the park could quite feasibly say “We’ve operated Stealth at 205ft for 15 years with no issues” to defend themselves and make a case for the approval of a hyper coaster.

Hi there!
 
I’ll probably be a familiar face if you’re a frequent reader of TowersStreet or CoasterForce, but for those of you who don’t know me; I’m Matt, I’m 18 years old and I’m a theme park enthusiast from the Forest of Dean!
 
In terms of my own history with Thorpe; my first visit was back in 2014, when I was 11, and I’ll admit that even though I didn’t visit Thorpe at least once every year as a child in the same way that I did Alton Towers (the bulk of my Thorpe experiences have certainly been quite recent, unlike Towers where I have a plethora of childhood memories), I have grown a real soft spot for the park over all my visits since then, and I always enjoy a day there! My favourite Thorpe ride is The Swarm, but I’ll admit that Nemesis Inferno has really grown on me in recent years and comes a very close 2nd these days; it’s a smashing coaster, in my opinion!
 
In terms of other theme parks and rides; my current coaster count is 79, my current favourite roller coaster is Mako at SeaWorld Orlando (I last rode it in August 2016, but my goodness do I remember the airtime being brilliant!), and my favourite theme park is Universal’s Islands of Adventure (the theming and general sense of immersion is just spell-binding, in my opinion, and the rides are excellent too; it really is the full package!)!
 
So, that’s a brief introduction to me, for those of you who don’t already know me! I apologise if that’s a little more than you wanted to know (I’m not the best at concise writing…), but that’s some stuff I thought you might find interesting!

When riding the Wicker Boi at Oktoberfest this year it seemed noticeably faster than last year, was throwing us round the track - was almost a little bit too violent!

I definitely think that would be a good fit at some stage, and I do reckon that might happen at some point, but I’m unsure if it would be the right fit for Thorpe at this stage, personally. Despite Swarm and DBGT’s failures, they know that thrills have worked in the past (and I should add that both Swarm and DBGT had extenuating circumstances working against them that contributed substantially to said failures, particularly Swarm), so for an investment like this, which really needs to rejuvenate the park after a dry spell, why not go for something that they know has a fair chance of working?

A Mack would certainly come out of left field, but that’s an interesting thought. It would definitely be something different at a Merlin park.
 
I think I agree with Matt, my money would be on a B&M hyper if I was placing a bet.
Even after all the RMC hype over the years, I still think it’ll more likely be a B&M, for reliability alone. It’s a safer bet for Merlin.
 
Mack do a very impressive looking hypercoaster though 🤔
 
It’s exciting to know that “something big is happening” but actually having no idea what it might be.  It could literally be anything at this stage.
 
One thought - what do people think about whatever this is potentially not being a big thrill coaster?
Does anyone think they might go down a more family-friendly route following the miracle turnaround that Wicker Man brought to Towers after the crash? It pretty much brought them back from the brink!
 
Really looking forward to whatever happens though. 
I’ll always have a soft spot for Thorpe, and I’m so looking forward to hopefully seeing their fortunes change for the better with this.

Hi there!
 
I’ll probably be a familiar face if you’re a frequent reader of TowersStreet or CoasterForce, but for those of you who don’t know me; I’m Matt, I’m 18 years old and I’m a theme park enthusiast from the Forest of Dean!
 
In terms of my own history with Thorpe; my first visit was back in 2014, when I was 11, and I’ll admit that even though I didn’t visit Thorpe at least once every year as a child in the same way that I did Alton Towers (the bulk of my Thorpe experiences have certainly been quite recent, unlike Towers where I have a plethora of childhood memories), I have grown a real soft spot for the park over all my visits since then, and I always enjoy a day there! My favourite Thorpe ride is The Swarm, but I’ll admit that Nemesis Inferno has really grown on me in recent years and comes a very close 2nd these days; it’s a smashing coaster, in my opinion!
 
In terms of other theme parks and rides; my current coaster count is 79, my current favourite roller coaster is Mako at SeaWorld Orlando (I last rode it in August 2016, but my goodness do I remember the airtime being brilliant!), and my favourite theme park is Universal’s Islands of Adventure (the theming and general sense of immersion is just spell-binding, in my opinion, and the rides are excellent too; it really is the full package!)!
 
So, that’s a brief introduction to me, for those of you who don’t already know me! I apologise if that’s a little more than you wanted to know (I’m not the best at concise writing…), but that’s some stuff I thought you might find interesting!

Sorry to bump this thread, but I just wanted to ask; is it me, or has Wicker Man been riding a little better in 2021?
 
From my experiences, the ride has felt a little bit faster than in previous years, and it has also been packing quite a few pops of surprisingly excellent airtime where there was previously none! Does anyone else agree with me, or am I just perceiving things?
 
I’ve always really liked Wicker Man since first riding it on opening weekend in 2018 and having my expectations exceeded by a considerable margin (given that the forums were very pessimistic about how Wicker Man would ride and I had no prior GCI experience to compare with, I had pretty low expectations, but I was absolutely blown away!), but over the last year or so, it’s strongly grown on me! Since an excellent couple of rides in July 2020, I’ve been absolutely loving it, and it seems to have gone up by another level again for me in 2021! I just love the fast pace of it, as well as the fun turns, great pops of airtime and the relative smoothness and comfort compared to other wooden coasters!
 
Overall, I do absolutely love it, and it really is a coaster I rank highly! I apologise if this is controversial, but as someone who rates fun and rerideable coasters highly over the out and out intense, I personally have it as my comfortable favourite at Alton Towers, and it’s only narrowly beaten by Icon within the UK for me! For me to rank a ride highly, it has to pack enough thrill for me to get a real kick out of riding, but it can’t be so intense or rough that it causes nausea or hurts me, and I personally think that even though I wouldn’t traditionally call myself a wooden coaster person, Wicker Man satisfies that brief for me more than the vast majority of coasters I’ve ridden!
 
It’s certainly made me look forward to hopefully riding Wodan next year, anyway, as most seem to think it beats Wicker Man by a considerable margin…

I’ll admit I’m a little unsure what to think about Icon getting spinning cars, personally.
 
On one hand, it’ll certainly be a unique feature for the ride to boast, and will hopefully give it that marketability that it perhaps lacked in its initial years. Time Traveler and Ride to Happiness have also received rave reviews, so hopefully this could boost the ride’s middling reputation among enthusiasts. (Although Time Traveler and RTH use slightly different tech)
 
On the other hand, I personally absolutely love Icon as is, and I think the back row is my favourite row. I’m also not overly keen on spinning coasters, so I’ll admit that I would be quite sad to see my favourite seats go in favour of spinning seats.
 
I’m not really the target audience for this, though, and the park shouldn’t care what I, a statistically insignificant enthusiast who hasn’t visited since 2019, thinks or whether I like spinning coasters or not; I hope it’s a success for them, even if it’s not an idea I’m necessarily sold on from a personal point of view.

Thanks for the info, but with regard to the bolded, what makes you think this will be a Mack, out of interest?
 
I’m not saying you’re wrong by any stretch, as I certainly think it’s plausible, but it does seem like an interesting contrast to the other strong rumours I’ve heard.
 
Many online, including some who I know are well connected within Merlin, seem to think that this will be a B&M Hyper Coaster, and I do think it’s a plausible conclusion; based on Chessington’s 2023 coaster and the family B&Ms planned for numerous Chinese Legolands, I think it can be inferred that Merlin is at very least in strong cahoots with B&M at the moment, and they may well have had some form of discount on numerous rides. As such, I could see Merlin wanting to utilise this for as many rides as they possibly can within the chain, which would make a B&M Hyper quite a good possibility for Thorpe, in my opinion. Merlin also has quite a strong history with B&M; of all the Merlin-built coasters listed “Extreme” on RCDB, all bar 2 of them were built by B&M, and the other 2 (Saw & Smiler) were built by Gerstlauer, who I don’t see Merlin going back to after the Smiler incident. For clarity, Thirteen, Wicker Man and Mammut are listed as “Thrill” on RCDB, but even if we look at all of the coasters Merlin has built in RTPs since the initial purchase of Gardaland in 2006, 5/13 of them were constructed by B&M, and that percentage grows substantially if you include the upcoming coaster at Chessington and exclude kiddie & family coasters. For one manufacturer, that’s a big percentage, and I do personally think it shows that Merlin has a rock solid relationship with B&M.
 
Mack, on the other hand, haven’t done an awful lot for Merlin besides some clones for Legoland parks, and I did hear a rumour that Mack are not too fond of Merlin as a client based on past treatment, and would not be keen to enter into a bespoke, large-scale project with the company, although do take that with a pinch of salt.
 
Besides, I think one would be a fantastic fit for Thorpe, and would satisfy many criteria that the management themselves previously cited as being required for any major investment. At an enthusiast event a few years ago, the park management themselves said that after the failures of DBGT, they wanted the next major investment to be marketable, reliable and to have high capacity. I don’t know if you’d agree, but I personally think a B&M Hyper would fulfil all of these criteria (“tallest coaster in the UK” would certainly be a good USP for marketing, and B&Ms are typically both reliable and high capacity), and I also think that it would provide a really rerideable coaster that’s just pure fun, which I personally feel is something that Thorpe presently lacks.
 
So in essence; my personal money is on a B&M Hyper Coaster here, and I also think that it will break the UK height record.
 
Regardless of what replaces Logger’s Leap, though, whether it’s a B&M or a Mack as you suggest, I certainly think it’ll be an exciting ride!

Hi there!
 
I’ll probably be a familiar face if you’re a frequent reader of TowersStreet or CoasterForce, but for those of you who don’t know me; I’m Matt, I’m 18 years old and I’m a theme park enthusiast from the Forest of Dean!
 
In terms of my own history with Thorpe; my first visit was back in 2014, when I was 11, and I’ll admit that even though I didn’t visit Thorpe at least once every year as a child in the same way that I did Alton Towers (the bulk of my Thorpe experiences have certainly been quite recent, unlike Towers where I have a plethora of childhood memories), I have grown a real soft spot for the park over all my visits since then, and I always enjoy a day there! My favourite Thorpe ride is The Swarm, but I’ll admit that Nemesis Inferno has really grown on me in recent years and comes a very close 2nd these days; it’s a smashing coaster, in my opinion!
 
In terms of other theme parks and rides; my current coaster count is 79, my current favourite roller coaster is Mako at SeaWorld Orlando (I last rode it in August 2016, but my goodness do I remember the airtime being brilliant!), and my favourite theme park is Universal’s Islands of Adventure (the theming and general sense of immersion is just spell-binding, in my opinion, and the rides are excellent too; it really is the full package!)!
 
So, that’s a brief introduction to me, for those of you who don’t already know me! I apologise if that’s a little more than you wanted to know (I’m not the best at concise writing…), but that’s some stuff I thought you might find interesting!

Wicker Man received some work last closed season. I believe some retracking which shouldn't necessarily have had to happen so soon. 
 
That would explain why some people noticed it running better this year compared to last. It's also why the ride has been more reliable this year.

I remember end of 2020 it was riding dreadfully, just crawling round the unbanked turn around, which then seemed to sort itself out in 2021. For me I still find Wickerman to be a bit naff near the front of the train, and earlier in the day. If you can get towards the back at the end of the day I find it packs more of a punch. 

Don’t get your hopes up for any theming for the 2024 Mack . Samurai looks like it’s staying for a while!
 
plans will be out soon 🤫

Hi there!
 
I’ll probably be a familiar face if you’re a frequent reader of TowersStreet or CoasterForce, but for those of you who don’t know me; I’m Matt, I’m 18 years old and I’m a theme park enthusiast from the Forest of Dean!
 
In terms of my own history with Thorpe; my first visit was back in 2014, when I was 11, and I’ll admit that even though I didn’t visit Thorpe at least once every year as a child in the same way that I did Alton Towers (the bulk of my Thorpe experiences have certainly been quite recent, unlike Towers where I have a plethora of childhood memories), I have grown a real soft spot for the park over all my visits since then, and I always enjoy a day there! My favourite Thorpe ride is The Swarm, but I’ll admit that Nemesis Inferno has really grown on me in recent years and comes a very close 2nd these days; it’s a smashing coaster, in my opinion!
 
In terms of other theme parks and rides; my current coaster count is 79, my current favourite roller coaster is Mako at SeaWorld Orlando (I last rode it in August 2016, but my goodness do I remember the airtime being brilliant!), and my favourite theme park is Universal’s Islands of Adventure (the theming and general sense of immersion is just spell-binding, in my opinion, and the rides are excellent too; it really is the full package!)!
 
So, that’s a brief introduction to me, for those of you who don’t already know me! I apologise if that’s a little more than you wanted to know (I’m not the best at concise writing…), but that’s some stuff I thought you might find interesting!