Matt N

It's a very interesting one that's been touched on before in other topics.
 
Apart from the excellent Wickerman, they've spent vast amounts of money over the last several years replacing the Haunted House, Hex, Sub Terra, Nemesis, Skyride and Ripsaw with... The Haunted House, Hex, Sub Terra, Nemesis, Skyride and Ripsaw...
Yes they're all updated and in a couple of cases very different, but they're all essentially the same thing at the end of the day, and it's difficult to argue with that.
 
Someone who last visited Alton Towers in 2014, over a decade ago, would realistically not see a lot of difference in terms of ride offering if they visited again tomorrow. In fact, there are fewer rides on offer.
 
Don't get me wrong - I think its a very good thing that Skyride was saved, I think Curse is a vast improvement on Duel, and Nemesis' renewal and tart-up was a good thing to secure its future, but I agree with what you've said above.  Realistically, to most people at least, none of it is truly new. It's neatly all been (granted, expensive) maintenance to existing attractions to keep them running...
And the trouble is, they're not finished yet either.  Galactica is crying out for a refurbishment and retime... so could that be yet another (all be it badly needed) large investment that needs doing instead of something truly new? It wouldn't surprise me, as it will probably be deemed worth investing in rather than scrapping.
 
I think the truth is that Merlin has run nearly everything in to the ground, with little thought for the future. Although we all rode the wave of Merlin's success a decade ago, with new things coming in fairly regularly, their short-term thinking and obsession with only ever investing in a 'sure moneymaker' to satisfy the shareholders one year at a time has landed Towers here.
The money that should have been spent on refurbishments and maintenance over the years was instead given to the top execs and the shareholders, and now everything's timed out at the same time, and is hoovering up all the money that would otherwise be available to invest in to new attractions etc.
 
I'm very sad about the situation Alton Towers has been put in to by such poor leadership in the past.
Clearly there is a lot of money being spent at Towers on getting things back on track.  The recent renovations have mostly been excellent.  But with more expensive fix-ups surely to come, and ongoing problems with reliability and aging rides elsewhere (Rita, Galactica, etc), they're not out of the woods yet.
 
I hope there will be news soon on something truly new and exciting coming to Towers. They just can't keep replacing or re-theming everything for ever - even Disney have accepted that!

Hi guys. In recent years, I think it’s fair to say that Alton Towers have had a bit of a nostalgia push, for lack of a better term. In 2023, the park revamped Duel into The Curse at Alton Manor, which harked back to the ride’s roots and brought back something more akin to the Haunted House from 1992 (while Curse is not the Haunted House, it’s a haunted house with enough shared DNA that I think the two could be conflated with one another by a casual visitor). In 2024, the park retracked Nemesis. And in 2025, the park have opened Toxicator, which brings back a ride akin to the late Ripsaw from 1997 (while Toxicator is not the Ripsaw, it’s a Top Spin with enough shared DNA that I think the two could be conflated with one another by a casual visitor). Argaubly more so than ever before, Alton Towers’ recent investments seem to be leaning heavily into nostalgia for the park’s past. This is an interesting change of pace for the park compared to years gone by, so I’d be interested to know; what are your thoughts on the recent nostalgia push at Alton Towers? Do you love that the park is harking back to the glory days of the past? Or do you think that the park is fixating overly on past glories and not bringing enough new things to the table?
 
Personally, I’m in two minds. I think there’s a balance to be struck between nostalgia and new ideas.
 
On the one hand, I don’t think any of the projects that have been done have been unnecessary projects or excessively fixated on nostalgia to their detriment. Curse did not attempt to synthetically “revive” the 1992 Haunted House as some were advocating for and as I feared might happen; it did attempt to put its own spin on the haunted house concept and I think it works really well. Nemesis Reborn was a revival of a ride that was by all accounts revered and a core part of the park’s DNA, and I think the changes were excellent and breathed new life into the concept to bring it into the 21st century. Toxicator, perhaps ironically with it being the only new piece of ride hardware, is perhaps the one that feels like it was most done for nostalgia’s sake; there are a lot of other types of flat ride to pick from, and they still went for the one that the park had in 1997. But even still, Alton Towers lacks flat rides and the Top Spin as a ride type does objectively offer a lot of positive attributes. These projects have good ideas at their core, and one could argue; why should a good idea go unused just because it has been used before? Newness for newness’s sake is not necessarily a good thing; sometimes the old ones are the best, as they say!
 
On the other hand, however, I have a key concern about the park relying on nostalgia for multiple recent investments. That concern is that an excessive focus on nostalgia for multiple investments in a row might contribute to a public perception that the park is stood still, and isn’t moving forward. I’m not saying that projects like the revamps weren’t good, but I think more so than any decade prior, Alton Towers has felt like it’s stood still during the 2020s so far. We as enthusiasts might be interested in projects like Curse and Nemesis Reborn, and the park are undeniably splashing the cash, but for the casual visitor, I have my concerns that it looks like the park is simply living off past glories and rehashing the past. To the casual observer, I can see why Curse is “just the Haunted House in a new colour”, Nemesis Reborn is “just Nemesis in a new colour”, and Toxicator is “just Ripsaw in a new colour”. In isolation, I think all of these projects were fundamentally good and beneficial, and nostalgia in moderate doses is not necessarily a bad thing… but when put together and being the only things done for multiple years in a row, they give off an impression that the park has run out of ideas and hasn’t done anything meaningfully new in years.
 
People might rhapsodise about “the experience” in years gone by, but I feel this sentiment ignores the key thing that gave Alton Towers its popularity and status in the first place. During the 1980s and 1990s, the park was forward-thinking and brought several new and innovative ride installations to the table, and it attracted the public’s attention in a big way. Heck, even during the 2010s, the park was still forward-thinking and bringing new and innovative ride installations to the table in the form of rides like Thirteen, Smiler and Wicker Man. But when Alton Towers has spent the last few years in a row doing nothing but refurbishing and/or “reviving” things from the park’s past, I fear that that forward-thinking and innovating mentality that gave the park its name will be perceived to have gone. Multiple nostalgia-driven projects in a row could feel like the park is rehashing the old hits and living in the past rather than bringing anything new to the table.
 
So personally, my view is that there is a place for nostalgia, and good ideas should not necessarily be abandoned for newness’s sake, but that the park’s reliance on it in recent years could perhaps be excessive, particularly if continued into 2026 and beyond. If we, for instance, see a new enterprise to “revive” Enterprise in 2027 and a new pirate ship to “revive” Blade in 2028, I fear it will just fuel a perception that the park is stood still and living in the past. We need some legitimately new blood interspersed in with nostalgia to make it feel like the park is moving forwards, and I’d argue we’ve reached a juncture where Alton Towers could perhaps do with some new blood rides-wise.
 
But I’d be keen to know; what are your thoughts on Alton Towers’ recent nostalgia push? Do you think it’s a good idea to hark back to the glory days? Or do you think the park could do with bringing some new ideas to the table?

Thanks, both!
 
I doubt I'll end up doing it anyway. If there are probably actors in it, I'm not sure I'd want to take the chance, and besides, there's too much at Thorpe that I actually like for me to be overly worried about not having done The Walking Dead! I'll probably be far too tempted by the bigger coasters on my next visit, particularly seeing as I definitely need more goes on Hyperia...

Actors are in there in the afternoons most days this year in my experience.
 
They always place a sign outside the entrance when there are actors, and there almost always won't be actors in there if that sign isn't out.
 
If you want to experience it without actors, I'd try to ride it before noon.

I’m sorry I can’t answer your question, but in my experience it’s extremely rare, and on the few occasions when they have had actors in there during my visits over the years, it’s simply one in the pre-show room, but the “scares” are minimal and it’s more of an “opening and closing the doors” sort of role.  Another actor or 2 is then in the corridor just after the station exit, although realistically the scares here are minimal too and it’s more for show as you file past.

My advice would be, if you’re really wanting to ride TWD, depending on your phobia of course, it isn’t comparable to a scare maze and is a very brief interaction. You’ll be walking past them for a few seconds at most, and the environment doesn’t lend itself to being scary or really give the staff any opportunity to hide.
you’ll also be one of a trainload of people so it’s safety in numbers!
 
If you just come through the doors, keep your head down and walk, once you’re in to the narrow corridor you’re past where the actors usually are (if there are any!)
 
I think there will always be someone in the preshow room, who often has a mask of some sort on, but as I’ve mentioned it’s far from a scary experience and really no different than any member of staff dealing with a preshow 🤷‍♂️ 
 
Do they even have actors in there anymore actually?
 

Out of curiosity, how often do actors appear in The Walking Dead? And do they ever appear when not advertised outside?
 
I only ask because I haven’t actually done it since the retheme due to a bit of a phobia of/aversion to costumed actors, particularly scare actors. I rode the coaster hardware itself in 2014, prior to the retheme, but I haven’t ridden it since.
 
I’m wondering if I should rip the plaster off and try it next time I’m at Thorpe, but I’d really prefer not to risk it if there’s a strong chance of actors being in there.

Any Hippogriff ride. I will never wait an hour for a Vekoma junior coaster. Not on your life.
I don't generally spite myself out of any rollercoaster. If I've done it before then I won't do a lot of Gerstlauer rollercoasters. Saw is awful to ride, Smiler is painful to queue for. Eurofighters are generally quite meh.
Generally I avoid Tidal Wave type rides now, there's no fun in walking abound in soggy clothes. 

In a nice, but admittedly very random, addition, Colossus now has a smoke effect!
 
https://x.com/ThorpeParkMania/status/1936799436602065404?t=uY0MNotqAIdP5sGeIsb4tA&s=19

Ooh interesting one!
 
I think yes, a park can definitely be too quiet.  
 
Thorpe is by far my most visited park, and back when I had an annual pass I’d frequently visit on quieter days.  The trouble is, it was occasionally possible to have everything, and I mean literally everything, done by lunchtime with ease.
Fantastic for re-rides etc, but it didn’t feel like a “full day out” if you know what I mean, and it certainly lacked the atmosphere and that buzz you get from a bustling theme park.
 
I remember going to a very quiet fright nights one year, having arrived at opening time. We had ridden and re-ridden everything all day, and then when the mazes opened we went through all of them several times, to the point that we weren’t fussed about doing Asylum anymore that night even though it was literally “walk on” with hours to go - unheard of these days for a maze.
 
Don't get me wrong - I look back on those visits with fond memories, and LOVED the amount of rides we could get on, but overall I think it’s a better overall experience when the queue times are around 10 minutes for things.
 
Queueing a little definitely helps space the day out nicely, especially in smaller parks like Thorpe.  It also builds up that anticipation a bit, and forces you to take in the atmosphere and theming around you.
 
Staying with the fright nights as an example - my favourite ever FN was the year Cabin in the Woods opened. The atmosphere around the park really added to the experience, particularly around Cabin where we spoke to several strangers around the park about the different routes etc that could be taken. There was a real buzz about it that could only be felt because so many people were sharing the enjoyment.
 
So yeah, as much as I adore a re-riding marathon, I really do enjoy experiencing a park that is alive and visibly thriving.  The perfect balance for me would probably be no queue exceeding 20 - 30 mins all day, but the last hour or so having walk ons. 👌🏼 best of both worlds!

Depends on the park for me, especially if such place has x amount of rides that requires a minimum number of people to ride in order for it to operate. 
 
some parks when quiet feel pleasant to visit, enabling numerous re-rides and getting lots done, assuming they don’t have silly operating hours (glares at Towers). But then again, with empty paths, areas, fewer or no entertainment (depending on the park), it can definitely impact atmosphere and environment. Making it feel more flat and empty as a result. 
 
Not sure where everyone else is on this, but I find parks on average the most enjoyable when they are between the busier end of quiet and the busier event of lively. But that might just be me. 

Hi guys. On paper, everyone’s dream theme park visit is one with no queues. Queues are the bane of everyone’s existence when it comes to theme parks, so to not have them sounds like a dream… right? After a recent visit to Paultons Park on 5th June that was particularly deserted, as well as some ensuing discussion with people off the back of that, I’ve been pondering this notion. With this in mind, I’d be interested to know; in your view, can a theme park ever be too quiet? Is the theoretical ideal of a park with no queues and no crowds really such an ideal in reality?
 
Personally, I’m actually somewhat undecided on this.
 
From my own perspective, a large part of me would say no. A quiet park means all the more rides for you, and as a person who doesn’t mind doing a good number of rerides on things I enjoy, that suits me down to the ground! There are very few things better than a nice riding marathon, in my view, and depending on the park, some of my best memories in theme parks have been from times where I’ve just been able to ride over and over (a 30-ride day at Thorpe Park in September 2023 sticks particularly fondly in my mind)!
 
On the other hand, though, some might argue that depending on your own tolerance for reriding, queues are almost necessary to lengthen the day and break up the rides a bit. There’s also the argument about atmosphere that I can see; I had a brilliant day, but at points, my Paultons visit was almost quite surreal due to the sheer lack of crowds. When you’re the only person within visible eyeshot at points, it is certainly quite an odd experience!
 
So on balance, I would probably lean towards no, but I can see some of the arguments for yes. I can also see that the answer might differ depending on the park; I’ve certainly found riding lots of rides easier and more enjoyable in some parks on a quiet day than in others!
 
But I’d be keen to know; do you think a theme park can ever be too quiet?

It's an interesting question. I have spent too much of my life waiting so I don't like queuing and when it comes to riding, I do take it into account. It depends also on the people around you, and any themeing, this particularly relates to whether one is alone. The chatter amongst a group can be enjoyable, if you're included. The atmosphere can be affected, especially if the Park is "dead".

Totally agree, the amount of time available to enjoy the rides is fleeting, and sometimes it’s only when rides are gone that you realise how much you love them! Loggers is a big one for me.  But even the rides that do remain, the memories made are done and can’t be re-done, not really.  It’s so important to go and do what you love, and make those memories and keep enjoying what you love doing. You never know what’s round the corner.
 
As for what I’ve learned about being an enthusiast over the years - I think it took me a while to realise I was even an enthusiast. Just because I don’t go to parks every weekend, count creds, collect merch, have a YouTube channel, do big coaster trips, or even visit THAT many theme parks in the grand scheme of things, I am still an enthusiast and still very much enjoy calling it one of my hobbies. There are so many different types of enthusiasts out there, but really we all share that common love for the parks, even if we all have different ways of enjoying them.
 
Secondly for me, I think I used to be all for the rides, but now I’m in my mid-thirties I’ve very much come round to appreciating theme parks rather than just the rides. I’ve never appreciated Disney as much as I do now, especially DLP as it goes through its transformation. Funny how things change isn’t it

One thing I would say about Legoland is that the hill the park is set on can make it quite a trek to negotiate at times if you’re not the most able walker. I’m a relatively adept walker (if I do say so myself!), so I didn’t struggle with it too much on my most recent visit, but I have been in the past with a member of our party being in a wheelchair and it was quite hard work! With a small child, I can imagine that their littler legs might potentially struggle. So I’d recommend making use of the Hill Train, if it’s open.
 
I’d concur with @JoshC. on the note of queues. I found many queues to be pretty overstated on my last visit, and like Josh, I also found Minifigure Speedway’s queue to move quite quickly compared to that of other rides.
 
On the subject of Minifigure Speedway, I should also warn you that they do not let you pick your side as they do on many other duelling coasters. I struck lucky and managed to get on both sides without needing to ask, but if you are keen to try both, you may have to ask.
 
I haven’t visited with a young child (other than when me and my older sister were young children ourselves on our initial visit in 2009, which is now some years ago!), so I apologise if I’m not too useful to advise you on visiting with a child, but I hope you have a nice time regardless!

With the recent announcement of the Universal theme park for the UK, I’ve been wondering about the prospect of other similar mega-parks opening up in this country. There was of course the proposal for the Swanscombe Peninsula theme park, but this has been kicked into the long grass.
 
Then I had an idea. Many British theme parks aren’t really themed around British culture, and with the rise in popularity of immersive experiences and living museums, I think this would be a good opportunity to trial a combined theme park and living museum attraction, that educates the British public on their country’s history through rides and experiences. I’m not expecting this to be the UK’s next thrill park, but more of a family park that appeals to all ages, consisting of a mixture of moderate rides and immersive experiences.
 
Like many theme parks, this park would be split into different lands, with each one corresponding to a period of British history. There would be a big emphasis on theming to fit in with the area’s period, with rides camouflaged or located indoors wherever possible. Some of my ideas for areas include:
 
- A Roman Britain themed area.
- A Tudor and Shakespeare themed area.
- An area themed around British myths, legends and folklore.
- An area themed to British farming, particularly in the West Country.
- An area themed to a remote Scottish fishing village at risk from the effects of global warming.
- An area themed to a Welsh mining village, in an area where the future of coal mining is uncertain.
- A peaceful “flora and fauna” area with no thrill rides, home to native British plants and wildlife.
- An area themed to Wartime Britain, with emphasis on the two world wars and global domination of the British Empire during that period.
- A science and technology area themed around British industry and inventions, celebrating the innovations of the past alongside those of today and tomorrow.
- An area themed to British pop culture from the 1960s to the 90s, with an emphasis on the arts, sport and leisure.
- The park’s hub, themed to a traditional market town in the South East of England.
- A transit system to connect park areas together. Could be a replica of the London Underground.
 
Each area would consist of:
1 rollercoaster, water or dark ride
1 flat thrill ride
2 childrens’ rides
1 immersive attraction
1 food outlet
 
So to round things up, this would essentially combine the thrilling aspects of a theme park with the educational side of museums, and the Insta-worthy appeal of immersive experiences. Do you think such an attraction would work in the UK?

I visited this park three weeks ago and I had some thoughts. You can tell this was a Disney park on a budget and was obviously planned in the days where Disneyland Paris was seen as a failure and budgets were tight. When it opened, its major rides were Space Mountain, Jungle Cruise and at a push, The many adventure of Winnie the Pooh. Investment has come with an outer ring basically built on the left side of the park with it starting at Grizzly Bear Mountain Railroad, into Mystic Point, Toy Story Land and finally Frozen Land. The right side of the park hasn't been left behind though with the removal of Autopia in favour of the Ironman Experience, Buzz lightyear re-themed to Ant-man and a rumoured Tower of Terror ride themed to Spiderman. 
 
I will say this, it is most definitely a one day park, maybe even a half day. The queues here are minimal (which is refreshing for a Disney park) and a lot of the rides are basically filler (again, quite refreshing). The longest waits are for the Duffy and Friends characters near the park entrances. If you aren't interested in queuing an hour to meet Lina-Bell, you have a problem. 
 
Grizzly Bear Mountain is the parks Big Thunder Mountain equivalent and It's a really good family coaster, it lacks the jank of thunder Mountain and its backwards section is pretty weak but the rest of the ride is great. The bears are used for comedy, one rubbing its bum on a points changer, another two setting of the dynamite in the mountains. The launch is pretty powerful and there's great forces on the turns through the valleys of the mountain.
 
Mystic Manor was closed. This absolutely sucked. 
 
Toy Story land is exactly the same as Paris's, just slightly bigger. 
 
Jungle Cruise is excellent. When we went you could wait for either mandarin or english skippers. Because the English was done in slightly broken English, it made it an absolutely hilarious time. The skippers were so fun and over the top. The finale is sublime and puts this as the best Jungle Cruise in the Disney parks. 
 
Frozen Land was fine. It still pains me that this Frozen Ever After is the big new hope for Disneyland Paris when at its heart, it's a very mid fantasyland reject and isn't really good enough. The Disney Sea equivalent is far superior. Onkens sleds is fine if a bit basic. Its best bit is the lift hilll animatronic. The rest of it is junior rollercoaster fluff.
 
Small World is the best of the five and was in good condition. All figures and effects are working.
 
Hyperspace Mountain is the same as the Disneyland version and is pretty fun if unremarkable. Its permanently hyperspace mountain so does need a proper refurbishment.
 
Antman and the Wasp is dull. All the sets are just grey and brown as you are shrunk down to destroy micro-chips. This leaves you with a very bland experience. Iron Man experience is pretty good, a more modern version of Star Tours. I personally.. prefer star Tours as it feels more mechanical and less fluid. However there's no denying it is a fun and unique experience.
 
When we went there was no parades or special entertainment as the trip was during the parks off-season. The only offering was the fireworks display at the end of the night, called Momentous which was fantastic and a beautiful display. I was pretty emotional towards the end.

Needed new part, took a while to arrive. Just the way these things go sometimes. 

So didn't manage to get Hyperia today 😔
 
Had a surprisingly smooth ride on SAW.  Nemesis is awesome and has aged like a fine wine.  Did Stealth and Swarm, had a Burger King and a pint, and then went home.
 
I do feel for the park, they have had issues with their last two installations (Derron and Hyperia).   

As mentioned in the Sparkle thread, Hyperia now has grass / turf around its queue line:
 
 
It's a small thing, but much better than what was there previously.

I've learned that to enthusiasts, every ride is rough and has a rattle.
 
I've learned that our passion is one of the only ones with such a limited life span. These huge pieces of metal have a limited existence and when they're gone, that's it. No one else will experience Wild Mouse at Blackpool, a 400 foot hydraulic launch rollercoaster, the world's only duelling B&M inverter and much much more.  For a lot of rides all we have is faded memories, hazy POV's and photos of ourselves in our younger days. I wish I'd taken more photos of some of the rides I've done because that's all I have left. It's kind of sad when you think about it. I've become almost obsessed with the demolition of Green Lantern and Kingda Ka. 

It’s looking to me like whatever is happening with the Beach might potentially be 2025’s draw instead. I wouldn’t be wholly surprised if they built some sort of ride there.
 
Where did the park get with that proposal to not need planning applications for structures below 25m? If that got passed by the council, then they could theoretically be doing anything below 25m without us needing to know about it.

Chop your legs off. Then you get double bonus of going on rides AND getting RAP.

Manufactures hate tall people. I’ve moved on from theme parks and rollercoasters and prefer to view from the side. There’s only so much rejection you can take……

BTM has always been fairly unreliable over the years for some reason.
 
Can't say for why though.