Is Alton Still Going To Be No.1 In 5 Years Time?

[D4n]

Just because a park is aimed at one target market doesn't mean it can't have rides that appeal to other age groups. The main reason for Alton Towers being so popular, for example is that you have rides for every generation. At Thorpe, if a family has just a 14 year old that wants to go, for example, they'd look at the ride line-up and see nothing for their 4 year old, or the 70 year old? Would they go? Probably not.

[rickydoodle]

Just because a park is aimed at one target market doesn't mean it can't have rides that appeal to other age groups. The main reason for Alton Towers being so popular, for example is that you have rides for every generation. At Thorpe, if a family has just a 14 year old that wants to go, for example, they'd look at the ride line-up and see nothing for their 4 year old, or the 70 year old? Would they go? Probably not.

That's the whole point... Merlin have two attractions in the area (three if you include Legoland).Thorpe is not designed for young families (the removal of OG & Safari puts that discussion to bed) - if you have a young family, Chessington is designed to suit your needs. If you're a family of thrillseekers or you're a bunch of teenagers who want a day out at a park you visit Thorpe Park. Merlin have covered the market by building (or developing, I guess) two parks with two very different target audiences in the same area.It makes sense to have the families in one park with varying attractions that cater for all members of the family in a family atmosphere, whereas at Thorpe the teen market can be targeted directly with big thrill rides, loud music and coasters based around horror films.Having too much overlap between the two attractions in such close proximity would essentially mean that the company would be battling against itself (like Pleasure Beach, Pleasureland & Frontierland) - it doesn't work. That'd be mental!

[JoshC.]

It makes sense to have the families in one park with varying attractions that cater for all members of the family in a family atmosphere, whereas at Thorpe the teen market can be targeted directly with big thrill rides, loud music and coasters based around horror films.

So...A family wants to go to Thorpe park. And that happens a lot - loads of families still do go. However, everyone is unable to enjoy the day because the park should only target the teen market. After all, if Chessie are only down the road, then the family can split up and go to two different parks. Yeah, makes really good sense. As you have said, the park isn't designed for the enthusiast - the GP make up a greater deal of the target market. And, if Thorpe just target the teens, and a family go there, the family will:Not have as much fun.Feel unwelcomed.Struggle to keep younger kids entertained.So on and on.And they aren't going to think 'Oh, well Thorpe's a business and they're designed to a particular market so it's our fault for bringing kids here', are they?

[rickydoodle]

So...A family wants to go to Thorpe park. And that happens a lot - loads of families still do go.

Merlin has designed the park to be more appealing to teens and has designed Chessington to be more appealing to families. The history of both parks will inevitably prevent the masterplan from having an immediate effect - but in the coming years families with younger children will come to realise that Chessington provides a more targeted day out for them and represents better value for money.

However, everyone is unable to enjoy the day because the park should only target the teen market. After all, if Chessie are only down the road, then the family can split up and go to two different parks. Yeah, makes really good sense.

As above - the park are aiming towards the teen market - it isn't designed for a family day out. A family can go to Chessington as a family unit and have a good time. The two parks cannot aim to attract the same TA - they are owned by the same parent company and have to attract guests from different areas of the market. Tesco would not build two superstores on the street - there would be competition between the same company and potential earnings are reduced as overheads are doubled, yet the customer base remains at the same level.

As you have said, the park isn't designed for the enthusiast - the GP make up a greater deal of the target market. And, if Thorpe just target the teens, and a family go there, the family will:Not have as much fun.Feel unwelcomed.Struggle to keep younger kids entertained.So on and on.

See bold section - Thorpe are not trying to attract young family units, Merlin are investing millions at Chessington to provide them with suitable facilities. Families will soon choose Chessington over Thorpe and when at Chessington they won't feel unwelcome, struggle to keep their younger kids entertained, and so on and so on.

And they aren't going to think 'Oh, well Thorpe's a business and they're designed to a particular market so it's our fault for bringing kids here', are they?

But in the long run, they won't be bringing their kids there - they will take them to Chessington as it will have a greater appeal - Thorpe has no Octopus' Garden, why would families want to take a four year old there when you could take them to Chessington? If Thorpe wanted young families they would not be investing multi inversion coasters and huge flats.Think about a film - Dreamworks are producing a new animation, they fill it with catchy music, big name stars and jokes that kids understand. They know where to aim it. Meanwhile, the same company are producing a new horror film, it's going to have plenty of blood, gore and a heavy metal soundtrack. The two films will appear in the same cinema, in the same week - therefore they are in theory competing. However in practice - they're not as they are both designed to attract a different audience.That's what Merlin are doing with Thorpe & Chessington. It makes no sense to have two competing attractions in the same area and the investments over the past decade (including the swap out of Eclipse & Samurai) allow the two parks to go into two totally different directions to cover the market as broadly as they can with as little overlap (competition) as possible.

[JoshC.]

I find it very ironic how you have said to everyone to take your enthusiast hat off, and yet you still look at things with it on yourself. It's contradiction.The GP won't think about who the park are aiming towards, they will just go for a fun day - and you don't seem to comprehend that.

[rickydoodle]

I find it very ironic how you have said to everyone to take your enthusiast hat off, and yet you still look at things with it on yourself. It's contradiction.

I'm explaining it from a business point of view to help you understand the reasoning behind what is being done at Thorpe and Chessington. The intentions of the company are (I thought?) plain to see whether you are a coaster enthusiast or not.

The GP won't think about who the park are aiming towards, they will just go for a fun day - and you don't seem to comprehend that.

That's completely untrue. With TV adverts, social networking and most importantly word of mouth - people speaking to each other, people will come to realise that Merlin are removing kid's rides from Thorpe and providing more suited family entertainment just down the road. A nursery school provides facilities for pre-school kids, a youth club provides facilities for teenagers. It's the same thing.Compare the additions from the past 5 years - it's a multi-million pound demonstration of what I have outlined. You don't seem to comprehend basic business philosophy.

[JoshC.]

The thing which you do not understand is that families still go to Thorpe, despite all advertising. No matter what view you take, they still go.You're basing it on a business / enthusiast view, comparing investments, etc. I have a basic understanding of what the parks have done, and what their intentions were. You seem to forget that families of all ages still go to Thorpe park, and they don't think about it the way you are.

[rickydoodle]

The thing which you do not understand is that families still go to Thorpe, despite all advertising. No matter what view you take, they still go.You're basing it on a business / enthusiast view, comparing investments, etc. I have a basic understanding of what the parks have done, and what their intentions were. You seem to forget that families of all ages still go to Thorpe park, and they don't think about it the way you are.

The change of any customer base is going to be gradual - that's inevitable when families have been going to Thorpe for years and years. However, let me put it this way - if you were a family made up of a mum and dad with a four year old, and a five year old. You went to Thorpe, discovered most of the kid's rides had disappeared, found out the kids weren't tall enough to go on most of the rides and had a pretty rotten day, would you;A - Keep going back year after year and continue to have rotten days until you were tall enough to ride.B - Go to Chessington in the meantimeI can't put it any clearer than that.

[JoshC.]

You base that on one family though. There's not one family in the UK that go to Thorpe.

[rickydoodle]

I used an example that could easily be manipulated to vary the ages of the children and still be relevant.

[AstroDan]

Guys - Thorpe will never steal Alton Towers' crown as the UK's number one theme park for so long as Thorpe's strategy is for thrill only! The very best theme parks worldwide tend to suit all corners of the market.Thorpe - UK's most thrilling theme park it already is, but UK's number one - no, how can it be when it is only aiming to attract a specific segment of the market?When you discuss the likes of Disney, PortAventura, Phantasialand, Efteling, Europa-Park, Alton Towers - these are parks which aim to please ALL corners of the market. Very few parks actually only focus on thrill such as Thorpe hence why for me it will never be better than "all encompassing" parks. It doesn't mean Thorpe is poorer for it, it just means they're not going to be attracting such a wide number of people and therefore won't be #1.

[rickydoodle]

^ I think we can end the thread there, nice round up AstroDan! Remember though, that what Thorpe are attracting is a HUGE market.To hear straight from the park themselves check out this interview - the fourth question.

[MikeyT]

I would say that through various marketing materials and promotions, the message has probably reached a lot of people that Thorpe Park probably isn't very suitable for anyone under 12. Though that's not to say that under 12s won't visit the park, some "families" (using the word as a group of relatives and not a word thrown out to describe parents and young children) have no choice but to take their younger children with them, for whatever reason.In cases like this, it does make sense to offer something that would entertain the younger members of the family. Let's be honest, next year's attraction is hardly an adrenaline pumper is it?This is why Alton Towers will remain on a par with Chessington as the UK's best theme park for me. Adding rides and attractions that cater for everyone- thrillseekers, young children and rides that people can all enjoy together. It's not just about things like "themeing", it's about shows, restaurants, retail, park facilities. I think we should try and remain on topic from now on, remember this topic is about Alton Towers and whether you think it will remain number 1!

[Mark9]

Guys - Thorpe will never steal Alton Towers' crown as the UK's number one theme park for so long as Thorpe's strategy is for thrill only! The very best theme parks worldwide tend to suit all corners of the market.

Exactly. Besides, someones number one park is very subjective. For instance, mine is Chessington for very personal reasons. Doesn't mean Thorpe and Alton are any worse because of it.

[Fred]

Well, for number one.. Alton Towers is in the top three for an industry award against two other parks, which are both in america. Says something?You can't really compare the dismal years of 03-07 in this really, the company has changed, the targets have changed, their orientations have changed.. the logos have definitely changed.I went to thorpe the other day, and oh god didn't it feel like a seaside fairground. How could you possibly say that'll become number one?

[rickydoodle]

How could you possibly say that'll become number one?

As stated elsewhere in the thread - I'm sure many people already class it as number one, it's all down to personal judgement in one respect. Or, if it's down to visitor numbers, revenue or profit - all those things are measurable.

[mccoaster]

Thorpe will be at the top in 5 years or even sooner once they build their new rides. All we need at Thorpe is 2 or 3 new coasters witch they are getting. 4 or 5 flat rides witch their get and they will be number one. I be leave that Thorpe is best at the minute but once they build their hotel the title is theirs.

[JoshC.]

Thorpe will be at the top in 5 years or even sooner once they build their new rides. All we need at Thorpe is 2 or 3 new coasters witch they are getting. 4 or 5 flat rides witch their get and they will be number one. I be leave that Thorpe is best at the minute but once they build their hotel the title is theirs.

Very convenient that you say Thorpe only need what they are considering of getting to get the number one spot. To be honest, plonking new rides won't make any park great. They're only half the story. The experience is the other half. And if Thorpe continue with their bare thrill ideology, then they won't get to number one, no matter how good the new rides are...

[Benin]

Thorpe will be at the top in 5 years or even sooner once they build their new rides. All we need at Thorpe is 2 or 3 new coasters witch they are getting. 4 or 5 flat rides witch their get and they will be number one. I be leave that Thorpe is best at the minute but once they build their hotel the title is theirs.

Of course, you're assuming that Towers or Chessie won't get any rides in the same timeframe, hence you're wrong there...And please, how is Thorpe getting a hotel going to improve it? Actually, the fact you can't even believe leads me to wonder what the hell is going on with today's education... A part of me inside dies when I see spelling like yours in posts...It'll take a lot more than a few flats and coasters for Thorpe to become anywhere near number 1... They need to get the atmosphere back (or indeed, there) into the park first before such things can be considered...Towers will still probably be the best on the overall package... It is now, and it probs still will be in 5 years... But of course, the parks aren't exactly true competitors are they? It's only the enthusiasts who seem to make it like there's some form of war going on between them all...

[electricBlll]

But of course, the parks aren't exactly true competitors are they? It's only the enthusiasts who seem to make it like there's some form of war going on between them all...

I agree with this. Although Morwenna and John did show signs of 'Alton Towers Pride' when talking about Thorpe Park at the Thirteen Evening, I imagine that in the broader picture there is no conflict. Thorpe Park and Chessington have been working together since the 00s now, and Alton Towers caters for both markets further up the country. People do compare them both, but there is not enough competition to affect their developments.Actually to quote Morwenna: "Alton Towers will always be number one no matter what Thorpe Park say."

[Mark9]

Actually to quote Morwenna: "Alton Towers will always be number one no matter what Thorpe Park say."[/color]

Agreed 100%.Thorpe Park may be able to build higher, faster, more, but it will never have the kind of rides and experiences that Alton has.

[Coasterfreck]

I dont think it will especial after they got rid of the old corky

[electricBlll]

??? Corkscrew had to go sooner or later. It didn't add anything to the ride line up anyway. They got a hell of a lot more attention by removing it and replacing it with Thirteen, instead of keeping it there and leaving it to rot even more.

[Deleted Users]

I dont think it will especial after they got rid of the old corky

Did you go on Corkscrew during its last few years of operation

[D4n]

I was actually a huge fan of Corkscrew, I adored the ride, and was one of those that 'protested' the most at the decision to remove it. However, in hindsight it was definitely a good decision to remove it. Th13teen is by far a superior ride, and has attracted a great number of visitors to the park this season.