Question Time

[Mark9]

Ok, recently I've been thinking about rides in slightly different terms. It's probably Disney still on my brain but I kind of see the way parks run in different lights now. When I rode Space Mountain I was intrigued and amazed that in that building were two identical coasters running side by side. I'd never seen that before and it got me wondering what they were thinking when it was being built. "This rides throughput isn't high enough, lets build two of them".And it got me thinking further about rides like Spinball Whizzer, Rattlesnake, Samurai and other low throughput attractions throughout the UK. Is spectacle and making an impact more important then just getting people on and off the ride in the shortest time possible.So, to start of us, I'd like to know your views on this.Q1) Is throughput one of the most important factors when parks open a new ride?I don't mind where discussion goes on this, you can take it down any avenue you wish. But I am intrigued on what people's views are.

[Benin]

It should be one of the top priorities park's focus on when adding a new ride...Look at how shocked everyone was by Thirteen's immense throughput on opening day... A full queue-line posted 90 minutes and the queue reduced to 20 minutes later in the day...An great throughput means less queueing for everyone, which makes everyone happy... Queues are always better when they are constantly moving, I will compare my experience of Thirteen and Air's queues on my last trip... Air's was so bloody slow and made everyone irritable and unhappy, yet Thirteen involved lots of jokes and merriment... Not hard to tell why...I would say major coasters for a park need to aim for over 1000 pph MINIMUM, whilst support ones between 600-800 pph... Look at how depressing Fury's queue is to see why this should be...

[Sheepie]

it depends on which perspective you're coming from. When designing a new ride, throughput should definitely be a major consideration throughout the process. Questions such as can the ride and operations department really cope with fastrack, disabled guests and their standby line once the ride is fully open, need to be honestly answered. Major rides should have at least 1000 an hour. Even better if it's pushing over 1200 (for the UK). I feel that this is an acceptable figure and would allow the ride some breathing space, as well as the guests!However, if you've got a story based ride, that's capable of getting large numbers of guests an hour, but a problem occurs that affects the audience's experience of the ride then I believe in this case that ride show is more important than the efficiency, or throughput an hour. If the ride is of a good quality, then people don't mind the wait.

[Fred]

Higher the throughput, the shorter the queue, the more guests experience the ride. Leads to more people experiencing that ride, and then able to experience more rides in a day. It also means you don't have a huge chunk of people stuck in a queue not spending money/totally enjoying themselves.Tbh, throughputs are considered more and more now. Especially in a culture which is becoming less and less tolerant of queues.

[Kevin]

But if you just start doubling the rides - then it's just IRL RCT?!

[Tom]

I'm doing a huge psychology project at sixth form about cognitive dissonance and how it relates to the idea of queueing for a theme park ride Vs enjoyment of the ride.In simple terms cognitive dissonance occurs when two or more ideas conflict. This creates a feeling of tension between the ideas and human nature is to resolve the tension by changing one of the ideas or how we perceive the idea.So interestingly I'm investigating whether a longer queue time for a ride increases the enjoyment level - Simply because to justify why we queued so long, we change our opinion of the ride experience to be better than we originally thought.Another idea is of delayed gratification. This says that if we wait for something and discipline ourselves to wait, we somehow enjoy the experience more? Whatever it's an investigation so I don't know yet! ;)Will be really interesting to find out if this does occur, but I'm aware of loads of other factors influencing this; such as what the queue time board said, the queue times for the other rides, first V last ride of the day, their general enjoyment of the day, whether a person has queued shorter amount of time for 'better' rides (eg queueing 20 minutes for Nemesis, and then 1.5 hours for Rattlesnake). And a lot more!So next time someone queue jumps, just think 'HA I will enjoy it more. 'EDIT: Just read this back and I don't even mention throughput, but I'm sure you get how it relates.

[Benin]

But if you just start doubling the rides - then it's just IRL RCT?!

It works for Heide Park

[thorpeparkjack]

So interestingly I'm investigating whether a longer queue time for a ride increases the enjoyment level - Simply because to justify why we queued so long, we change our opinion of the ride experience to be better than we originally thought.Another idea is of delayed gratification. This says that if we wait for something and discipline ourselves to wait, we somehow enjoy the experience more? Whatever it's an investigation so I don't know yet! :DWill be really interesting to find out if this does occur, but I'm aware of loads of other factors influencing this; such as what the queue time board said, the queue times for the other rides, first V last ride of the day, their general enjoyment of the day, whether a person has queued shorter amount of time for 'better' rides (eg queueing 20 minutes for Nemesis, and then 1.5 hours for Rattlesnake). And a lot more!

This sounds really interesting! I have always thought after queueing for longer periods of time, the ride you experienced is all the more enjoyable.

[Benin]

To disprove that point above, I queued for 2.5 hours for X and didn't enjoy it... If only human psychology was so simple... There's too many internal and external factors that need to be considered (I.e. How the ride is being run, location of queue (shade, coolness, etc), actual ride experience)...

[Sheepie]

The BBC did a similar experiment with the opening of Colossus. They had two groups, one had been kept in controlled conditions, the other was allowed to watch the ride and get excited about it. I'll see if I can find a video.

[Fred]

I'd imagine if its down to whether you can actually see the ride in action, doing what it does best, as to if the queue is decent or not.Nemesis queue is good in some ways, in that you can always watch it. Thirteens queue, airs queue, furys queue, frustrates the hell out of me.. and that's probably due to lack of something to constantly watch/get excited about.

[Mark9]

It's also probably down to movement. I refuse to queue for Fury in a 45 minute queue because I know how little I'll be moving whereas a Vampire, Nemesis or Thunder Mountain queue will be easy because you move a lot constantly. That probably adds to my enjoyment even more and I'll notice the time moving less.

[Benin]

It's also probably down to movement. I refuse to queue for Fury in a 45 minute queue because I know how little I'll be moving whereas a Vampire, Nemesis or Thunder Mountain queue will be easy because you move a lot constantly. That probably adds to my enjoyment even more and I'll notice the time moving less.

Sounds like our time in the Thirteen queue on opening day when it did not feel like 90 minutes...Amazing what a constantly moving queue does...

[Tom]

To disprove that point above, I queued for 2.5 hours for X and didn't enjoy it... If only human psychology was so simple... There's too many internal and external factors that need to be considered (I.e. How the ride is being run, location of queue (shade, coolness, etc), actual ride experience)...

Just a theory! My own investigation might disprove it anyway, so don't be so quick to shoot down the idea. - I understand there are an unbelievable amount of other factors, and so my evidence may not be able to prove this theory at all in terms of queueing for a theme park ride, thanks for your input to the discussion though. :lol:Again psychologically (maaaah) if you're constantly moving it is much easier to queue. People who can distract themselves the most are able to queue longer than those who can't (sounds really obvious! But yeah, it is!) Delayed gratification.

[pluk]

If the queue is just going to be your standard cattle pen, for me throughput is essential. I simply will not wait for more than about an hour for any ride like that - I am very much a quiet day man and wouldn't dream of going on a summer weekend. If the throughput is that low it keeps the queue that high the ride may as well not exist to me.I find Saws queue particularly painful, mainly because of the queue being released into the station in batches, so it's stand still for 5 minutes, 10 seconds of shuffling forward, then another five minutes wait. Makes it drag something rotten. Constant movement is much easier for me to deal with.But the real thing that makes a queue fly by for me is entertainment. Hex is really three rooms of queue line entertainment for the ride at the end, and you don't even realise you are queuing. Similar with tower of terror. I could stand and watch Mr Potato Head in the TSMM queue for ages, so I don't notice I'm waiting. Even stealth radio when it's live provides enough variety to keep me occupied. Pre shows and queue line entertainment are the way forward, and should be designed into every substantial new ride.

[Mark9]

Reading through this topic so far then, I can deduce one thing. Queueing for rides is far more then just the throughput of the attraction itself.It's actually quite interesting just how much goes into it. As Pluk describes a queue that just goes back on itself over and over again isn't fun unless the queue moves a lot which means you (or you would) love Europa Park as despite its cattle-pens, the queues move like lightening.Or you could be like Peter and I where having something to look at distracts you from the queue itself.Or maybe you are you more of a Sheepie where you can give up a high through-put if the attraction itself has another spectable and bang to make the long queue worthwhile. I'd actually like to try a little experiment with you guys in that case. I'm going to list half a dozen rides and I'd like you to tell me what you feel when you queue for it. How long would you queue for it? If you haven't ridden then you don't need to discuss it.Tomb Blaster, Air, Detonator, Expedition Everest, Dragon Falls & Silver-Star.Thanks guys.

[Benin]

Tomb Blaster - Basically preference there is anything after the batch point... Though well themed, it's just so dull and VERY slow moving...Air - Longest here is up to the shop... Whilst it is very interactive with the ride surrounding the queue, again it's SO SLOW... Plus the hillside doesn't help it...Detonator - Around the platform... As that's when you're close up and can see/hear all the reactions...Everest - Not been on it so no idea... BUT it does look like it has some EPIC theming and probs moves nice and quick...Dragon Falls - I like this queue... It's quite atmospheric and the way in which it is doing a cattlepen but not works nicely... Plus can move pretty fast...Silver Star - Hmmmm, not a fan of this queue as it is again, quite boring... But it does move quick... Queued from the entrance myself but I'd prefer something closer... Maybe the staircase...

[Sheepie]

In an ideal world, the perfect theme park attraction would have a large throughput, lots of queueline themeing and ride interaction, as well as being a thumping good ride at the end of it. The only exception to ride interaction is when you have a queue that is so in your face with story, not being able to see the ride doesn't matter.Just as a quick aside- I'm going to use some pictures from Google to aid my post, none of them are mine and are just used for demonstration purposes. ^_^So, these rides then...Tomb Blaster: With all 5 trains running at full capacity, I do not mind queueing for this ride. It's a very pleasant queue which unfortunately is sometimes let down by the hectic merge point. More often than not there are cars locked down and out of use which severely reduces the hourly capacity of the ride and is extremely frustrating for guests.

The ride is capable of reaching throughputs exceeding 1000 guests an hour, however with the large amount of exit riders and fastrackers this ride receives, this severely eats into the stand-by queue.To top it off, after queueing for such a long time, the ride isn't that great at the end of it and I am left feeling rather underwhelmed at why I had spent such a long time queueing for a ride that was just not worth the wait.Air: Tranquil, smooth and sedated. Air's light blue colour scheme and landscaping put many riders at ease and looks less foreboding than many of the other large attractions at Alton Towers. The soundtrack also reflects the cool, calm feel of the area with a motif that wouldn't be out of place on a Relaxation CD.

Air has a reasonably large throughput, has a reasonable amount of ride interaction. I don't mind queueing for Air, but at the same time, I wouldn't queue in excess of an hour for the ride. Air is a difficult one and I don't really know what else to say about it. I suppose with Air, I feel like I am queueing for an experience, whereas my favourite attractions involve queuing as part of the experience. The queue does not move quite fast enough to be forgiven for this and whilst the ride is very good, I don't come off on that massive high like on other attractions.Detonator:Det is essentially a cattle-pen that ends in a gallery-like fashion around the ride platform. I don't mind queueing around the ride platform, so what, 15-20 minutes? Any longer, and I don't feel as though it's worth it. It's a good drop tower but the length of these type of rides makes me feel very bitter about queueing for them.Everest:

I'll try to keep this as brief as possible. As far as I'm concerned, this is not a queue, this is part of the attraction. Not queueing for the coaster is like skipping to the Vault section of Hex. It's quick, it's stunningly detailed and it literally throws you into a bubble so much I found myself oddly forgetting that I was in line for a roller-coaster. There are hints of what is to come with parts of the queue parading by the stunning drop out of the mountain.

Honestly, I could queue for the entire length of Everest's queue and then out into the fictional village itself. My only gripe was the little room before the loading platform, where I got stuck in for 10 minutes, so had to listen to the safety spiel at least 10 times, that was frustrating. The overall experience is just so good though, I soon forgot about that little mishap. Brilliant line for a brilliant ride.Dragon Falls:It's pleasant, it moves fast. I don't mind queueing up to 45 minutes for this flume. The queue is helped by lots of shade, a pleasant soundtrack and just a very nicely landscaped area. It's relatively unremarkable really, but the ride's length and laid- back, relaxed tone along with the quick moving queue, it all seems to balance itself out nicely. .

[pluk]

Tomb Blaster - Anything outside of the station building and it's a no from me. Not much to do with the queue line, more to do with how much I want to go on the ride itself, but it does often seem like a very slow shuffle.Air - Going totally against the rest of of what I said above, I will not go to Alton without riding Air no matter how long it takes me, because of how much I love it. Most I've waited was around 2hrs not long after it opened, which was quite painful, but at least the ride is fairly visible from most of the queue line and it's not an actual back and forth cattle pen. Detonator - About 20 minutes I guess, which I would think is not much off of the platform. Again, decent view of the ride itself helps pass the time.Expedition Everest - Sadly, I've never ridden. Last time I went it was built but not yet open which made me want to weep. But like Air, I need to ride it so no real limit.Dragon Falls - Around 30-45 mins. I have not queued since the money grabbing disgrace that is fastrack reared its ugly head, but it used to wind it's way through the tranquil reeds at quite a pace and you were entertained by live music or magic in the bandstand. Those were the days!!Silver-Star - Never been.

[Mark9]

In an ideal world, the perfect theme park attraction would have a large throughput, lots of queueline themeing and ride interaction, as well as being a thumping good ride at the end of it. The only exception to ride interaction is when you have a queue that is so in your face with story, not being able to see the ride doesn't matter.

That sounds actually like my definition of a perfect ride. I think it explains a lot why I prefer family attractions or rides with stories actually becuase a lot of the time, an intense ride can rarely have the well themed queueline, well themed 'coaster area' or the throughput to match. The rides I chose really reflect different areas of rides. You've got the low throughput spectacle ride Detonator, which interestingly, despite the rides quality is the one ride people would queue the least for. I'm the same on that account except I'd queue a maximum of ten minutes for it.Dragon Falls is the ride which all three of you are happy to queue for (aside from fastrack issues ). And it's the queue with small benches as you go along.I find Air incredibly hard to queue for and I think that's because from the entrance you can't really see just how far back the queue goes. It has a high throughput but, I do find it somewhat of a chore. For similar reasons, I find Tomb Blaster equally as hard to queue for. It just feels so lumbering and you spend so long just standing outside, waiting to move again.Both of Expedtition Everest and Silverstar are throughput monsters and even with full queues are quite joyful experiences.

[Deleted Users]

Here is a video of the Expedition Everest Queue for those who have not been through it. Notice how the people can barely keep up with how fast the queue moves while being distracted by the themeing.http://youtu.be/0T6IlowUB-I

[alexander]

Tomb Blaster - Reasonably fast from what I remember, although it's been a long time since I rode it.Air & Detonator - Same fate, I find the queueing time drag on for ages and get very bored waiting in queue for these.Dragon Falls - The queuing wasn't too bad but it didn't go fast either, in between really.Silver-Star - I queued right outside the entrance building for this, I found the queue moved ridiculously quick didn't feel like long at all!Sorry for the lack of detail I just wanted to be straight to the point!

[Fred]

I totally change my mind with thirteen queue. Having it half full and it literally zoom through is a brilliant feeling. Having something to look at would make it a far, far better queueing experience.

[Mark9]

I've noticed that for me, the best rides in the world are the ones that have the widest target audiences. Euro-Mir, Dragons Fury, Splash Mountain are all rides geared at families and yet are the best at creating smiles and laughs. Granted when I was 13 years old and a budding coaster boy it was rides like Nemesis and Colossus that got me interested. But 10 years later it's rides that capture my imagination that are favourable.So Question 2) Do you prefer thrill rides or experience rides?Are the two mutually exclusive? Do you like a ride regardless of its aims?

[James6]

Experience rides for sure...Like, I love the balls-out thrill rides, but the reason I get bored at Thorpe more than the others is because there is less variation between the thrill rides, than the experience rides at say, Chessington or Alton.So yeah experience rides for the win! Hence why BTM at DLP is by far my favourite coaster.