How Many Trains?

[thorpeparkjack]

[MESSAGE FROM RYAN] These posts have been moved from trip report topic, enjoy discussing! [MESSAGE FROM RYAN]Thorpe just love one train operation.

[Mark9]

Thorpe just love one train operation.

Oakwood run one car out of four on Speed.Just sayin'

[JoshC.]

I wonder if they only want to operate on one train to help ensure that they don't have issues on any major coasters for FN; which would be even worse?

[Marc]

When stealth has a queue of 10 mins on 1 train whats the point on adding a second? =\If stealth was on say 2 trains, that 10 min q would most likely had been 0, and I imagine they would struggle to fill all the seats and end up with one train pretty much empty anyway..

[D4n]

I wonder if they only want to operate on one train to help ensure that they don't have issues on any major coasters for FN; which would be even worse?

Of course we all know that everything will break on the first day of Fright Nights anyway though.

[Dan9]

When stealth has a queue of 10 mins on 1 train whats the point on adding a second? =\

Because it makes it a shorter queue, which is the general idea... And no, having two trains is not going to mean they are 'struggling to fill seats' if the queue was 10 minutes before. And for one whole train to be empty every launch it would mean there would only be 20 or so people in the queue to fill that one train, and 20 people on one train operation doesn't equal a 10 minute queue so no, there's no logic there I'm afraid. Seriously though, how can people actually defend Thorpe on choosing to run one train operation over two when other parks manage it fine even on quiet days? It makes me wonder whether people are being genuine in their beliefs on the place or whether this forum is also becomming more of a marketing tool instead, where Thorpe can do no wrong.

[D4n]

Because it makes it a shorter queue, which is the general idea... And no, having two trains is not going to mean they are 'struggling to fill seats' if the queue was 10 minutes before. And for one whole train to be empty every launch it would mean there would only be 20 or so people in the queue to fill that one train, and 20 people on one train operation doesn't equal a 10 minute queue so no, there's no logic there I'm afraid. Seriously though, how can people actually defend Thorpe on choosing to run one train operation over two when other parks manage it fine even on quiet days? It makes me wonder whether people are being genuine in their beliefs on the place or whether this forum is also becomming more of a marketing tool instead, where Thorpe can do no wrong.

I would completely agree with you there, if Alton can do it (and their rides are ALWAYS on maximum capacity) then I don't see why on earth Thorpe can't.

[James6]

Can I just say, I'm going to back that up too, word for word.

[Marc]

Because it makes it a shorter queue, which is the general idea... And no, having two trains is not going to mean they are 'struggling to fill seats' if the queue was 10 minutes before. And for one whole train to be empty every launch it would mean there would only be 20 or so people in the queue to fill that one train, and 20 people on one train operation doesn't equal a 10 minute queue so no, there's no logic there I'm afraid.

I was there yesterday, all rides on 2 trains and the park was quiet, they struggled to fill seats on all the main coasters apart from saw, Colossus was walk on with the middle of the train blocked off, inferno (again walk on) with an empty train going around and Stealth trying to fill seats each launch there were more people on park yesterday than today so... And obviously through out the day the rides will have different peaks.. does a 20/30 min queue REALLY warrant the cost of running a second train?

Seriously though, how can people actually defend Thorpe on choosing to run one train operation over two when other parks manage it fine even on quiet days? It makes me wonder whether people are being genuine in their beliefs on the place or whether this forum is also becomming more of a marketing tool instead, where Thorpe can do no wrong.

Lets use stealth as another example, on a day like today idealy stealth will be sending around full trains (to minimize the risk of a roll back) if the ride was on 2 trains, you wait around longer actually waiting to fill the seats so it can be sent full. I'm sure your well aware rides dont run on thin air, I dont see how its unreasonable to queue 10 mins for what is a ride what people would go to the park expecting and willing to queue 2 hours for. I'm not defending it, I'm looking at it from a business point of view which people seem to forget what the park is.

I would completely agree with you there, if Alton can do it (and their rides are ALWAYS on maximum capacity) then I don't see why on earth Thorpe can't.

I suspect with alton being a much bigger park, who would expect much higher gate figures they have budgets to run the rides in this way.

[James6]

And obviously through out the day the rides will have different peaks.. does a 20/30 min queue REALLY warrant the cost of running a second train?

Yes. But yeah, really do think that if this was at Alton and Rita was on 1 train with a 10 minute queue, you'd have a very different opinion.

[Marc]

Yes.

So lets add the second train for this peak, then have the ride running half empty and send around empty trains alll day.. Do you really think that makes any sense?

But yeah, really do think that if this was at Alton and Rita was on 1 train with a 10 minute queue, you'd have a very different opinion.

Not really, been there and done that, not many theme parks run without queues all the time and queuing is accepted by many as part of the day.. Of course if your that against queueing 20 mins for one of the parks main attractions I'm sure your more of aware of the fastrack options the parks offer!

[James6]

So lets add the second train for this peak, then have the ride running half empty and send around empty trains alll day.. Do you really think that makes any sense?

Yes, because running 2 trains scares everyone away... The same amount of people will be riding, maybe not ALL seats will be filled on EVERY train, but that doesn't negate the need for the 2nd train. Just means that staff have the option to have a more relaxed day and dispatch (slightly) slower, thus getting enough people to ride (not that that's even a reason...) but also no queue when there doesn't need to be...

Not really, been there and done that, not many theme parks run without queues all the time and queuing is accepted by many as part of the day.. Of course if your that against queueing 20 mins for one of the parks main attractions I'm sure your more of aware of the fastrack options the parks offer!

I think that your actually under-estimating the GP, they do actually know (usually) when a ride could have another train, or be run at a higher capacity, and that can really detract from the day. And if I went on a quiet day, and still had to queue for 20 minutes due to shoddy operations, yes, queueing 20 minutes would be frustrating. And are you suggesting that I/people get fastrack when the park is running one train on rides?

[Marc]

Yes, because running 2 trains scares everyone away... The same amount of people will be riding, maybe not ALL seats will be filled on EVERY train, but that doesn't negate the need for the 2nd train. Just means that staff have the option to have a more relaxed day and dispatch (slightly) slower, thus getting enough people to ride (not that that's even a reason...) but also no queue when there doesn't need to be...

I'm not saying that it scares any one away 8-) What I'm saying is whats the point in having 2 trains on the track, if it gets to the point ones being sent around empty and the rides still walk on.. To me thats a waste of money..

I think that your actually under-estimating the GP, they do actually know (usually) when a ride could have another train, or be run at a higher capacity, and that can really detract from the day. And if I went on a quiet day, and still had to queue for 20 minutes due to shoddy operations, yes, queueing 20 minutes would be frustrating.

20 miniutes is quiet compared to what the park usually gets, I personally dont think 20 minutes in unreasonable for any major theme park icon rollercoaster..

And are you suggesting that I/people get fastrack when the park is running one train on rides?

If your dead against ques and expect each ride to be walk on...

[James6]

*Facepalm*It's impossible to have a discussion when someone is as desperate to defend the park in every single way as you. Enjoy your one-train operations.

[Marc]

*Facepalm*It's impossible to have a discussion when someone is as desperate to defend the park in every single way as you. Enjoy your one-train operations.

Ill defend the park where I feel the park should be defended, a few years ago I would of totally agreed with you but growing up with the parks I can now appreciate them for what they are, appreciate that they are there to make as much cash as possible and that theres not a bottomless pit of money.. Do you have any idea how much some of these things cost to run? And you think Thorpes the only park to run things on reduced capacity your very narrow minded, Chessington only this year started opening throughout the weeks and I very much doubt all rides will be running at full capacity, Whilst ive not been to alton in the week for a while, id be extremely surprised if on a real dead day oblivion has all its shuttles running, Air runs on 3 trains etc.

[JoshC.]

The way I see it is simple. Anyone goes on a day like today, poor weather, all kids at school, people at uni, people at work, etc etc - most people would expect it to be quiet. So, you queue up needlessly for 20 minutes when that could easily be 5. At any park, guest satisfaction is a key priority. And a 20 minute queue on one train is far worse than a 20 minute queue on two trains. It's just like the Fastrack effect - stop start, stop start. Makes the queue feel a lot more painful.Also, with the case of Stealth, the train gets in the onload station at around the same time the other train is on the airtime hill (I think). So having two trains isn't going to increase the capacity to the extent that a queue will become nothing. The GP don't think about the cost of running a ride - they think about queuing as quickly as possible so they can do as many rides as possible. I personally hate the idea of one train operation, especially at a park as popular as Thorpe. It just makes the queue feel slower and, if a second train is put on the track, it feels just as bad when they send it round for test runs. It's a lose-lose situation in my eyes.

[Dan9]

I was there yesterday, all rides on 2 trains and the park was quiet, they struggled to fill seats on all the main coasters apart from saw, Colossus was walk on with the middle of the train blocked off, inferno (again walk on) with an empty train going around and Stealth trying to fill seats each launch there were more people on park yesterday than today so...

There were people there today saying Stealth had a 10 minute queue and two trains could have worked, and since they were there are could physically see the queue for themselves then I believe them.

Lets use stealth as another example, on a day like today idealy stealth will be sending around full trains (to minimize the risk of a roll back) if the ride was on 2 trains, you wait around longer actually waiting to fill the seats so it can be sent full. I'm sure your well aware rides dont run on thin air, I dont see how its unreasonable to queue 10 mins for what is a ride what people would go to the park expecting and willing to queue 2 hours for.

Because the opportunity is there to have a smaller queue than 10 minutes, so why not take it? And waiting for trains to fill up doesn't really matter because it means it's the smallest possible queue it could have, which is surely what the idea is.

I'm not defending it, I'm looking at it from a business point of view which people seem to forget what the park is.

I didn't know you worked for Thorpe Park?

I suspect with alton being a much bigger park, who would expect much higher gate figures they have budgets to run the rides in this way.

If Thorpe are so stripped for cash then why do they keep adding new attraction after new attraction, if they can't afford to keep their current main attractions running at full capacity in the first place? Once again, across 2008 I remember Thorpe ran two trains on Stealth basically every day, whatever the gate figure. If they were rich enough to do it then, then running two trains shouldn't be draining them out of cash now.

And obviously through out the day the rides will have different peaks.. does a 20/30 min queue REALLY warrant the cost of running a second train?

Yes. All I'm saying about the forum is that it's impossible to come here anymore where it seems I'm free to have an opinion or debate about something, without someone coming to me and reading one park regulation or another and generally doing the parks job for them. Here is a good example...

Of course if your that against queueing 20 mins for one of the parks main attractions I'm sure your more of aware of the fastrack options the parks offer!

When fastrack, something universally agreed on by theme park enthusiasts as a waste of space is advertised on a fan forum, it sort of sums it up. And even if having one train is good for their business, I don't care because from an enthusiasts point of view two trains would be better, and if we all have to look on things as a business decision then we're more or less working for them. So if we aren't allowed to have an opinion or a good old moan about something without being told off from the 'parks perspective', it just gets very boring and loses the point of a 'discussion' forum.

[Marc]

I think it does depend on what you class as quiet, and busy and what not, id like to point out I as much as anyone would love to see all the rides run at full capacity at all times but I can see why thats not always possible or financially viable. And I'm sure the park has a point where they will decide the queues are long enough to increase the rides capacity, and on all of the rides trains can be taken off and put on within few minutes. Would be interesting to see whats classed as an acceptable queue time for the park and at which point its felt the second train is needed.

[James6]

Ill defend the park where I feel the park should be defended, a few years ago I would of totally agreed with you but growing up with the parks I can now appreciate them for what they are, appreciate that they are there to make as much cash as possible and that theres not a bottomless pit of money.. Do you have any idea how much some of these things cost to run?

To be honest, defending the park whenever you feel it should be, is always...And yes, do you have any idea how much the park makes?

And you think Thorpes the only park to run things on reduced capacity your very narrow minded, Chessington only this year started opening throughout the weeks and I very much doubt all rides will be running at full capacity, Whilst ive not been to alton in the week for a while, id be extremely surprised if on a real dead day oblivion has all its shuttles running, Air runs on 3 trains etc.

Once again your bringing other parks into this as if it's an excuse for Thorpe to do so. Your probably quite right that Chessington's rides won't be running at maximum capacity, however the major difference, there won't be 20 minute queue's!!! Which is pretty much the whole reason for this discussion, that Thorpe is running rides on reduced capacity WITH queue's, queue's which are un-necessary. And can I just say, on the Alton front, yesterday the park was absolutely dead, ridiculously so (due to atrocious weather), and yet, Th13teen STILL on 3 trains, and all other rides also, on full capacity or if they weren't on full capacity, the queue was short. (As in walk-on to 5 mins)

[MikeyT]

Agree with much of what you're saying Josh! Especially about queueing for 20/30 minutes when it could be halved into 10 minutes. I would say if the queue is longer than 10 minutes on one train, then a second should be added!

[Marc]

There were people there today saying Stealth had a 10 minute queue and two trains could have worked, and since they were there are could physically see the queue for themselves then I believe them.

I'm not saying Stealth didnt have a 10 minute queue today.. I'm saying from experience yesterday, with more people on park Stealth could have very easily coped on one train.

Because the opportunity is there to have a smaller queue than 10 minutes, so why not take it? And waiting for trains to fill up doesn't really matter because it means it's the smallest possible queue it could have, which is surely what the idea is.

IMHO I dont feel a 10 minute queue warrants the cost and time of adding a second train to the track, thats just my opinion I dont think a 10 min queue for stealth is unreasonable. If it was 40/50 minutes id have a total different opinion.

I didn't know you worked for Thorpe Park?

So because I dont work for the park I'm not able to realize the park are there to make money?

If Thorpe are so stripped for cash then why do they keep adding new attraction after new attraction, if they can't afford to keep their current main attractions running at full capacity in the first place? Once again, across 2008 I remember Thorpe ran two trains on Stealth basically every day, whatever the gate figure. If they were rich enough to do it then, then running two trains shouldn't be draining them out of cash now.

Its not being about being able to afford it, and I expect budgets for new attractions are very separate than budgets for operation costs.

All I'm saying about the forum is that it's impossible to come here anymore where it seems I'm free to have an opinion or debate about something, without someone coming to me and reading one park regulation or another and generally doing the parks job for them. Here is a good example...When fastrack, something universally agreed on by theme park enthusiasts as a waste of space is advertised on a fan forum, it sort of sums it up. And even if having one train is good for their business, I don't care because from an enthusiasts point of view two trains would be better, and if we all have to look on things as a business decision then we're more or less working for them. So if we aren't allowed to have an opinion or a good old moan about something without being told off from the 'parks perspective', it just gets very boring and loses the point of a 'discussion' forum.

Ok I agree that was abit of a silly comment, but I dont see that as doing the parks job. Just because we are theme park enthusiasts that dont mean we all must have the same opinion when visiting and talking about the park and we will all visit for different purposes. Looking at it from not just an enthusiast point of view dont mean we work for them different enthusiasts are more interested in different parts of park operations I guess..Just to point out, id love for the park to be able to run 2 trains on all rides, all the time but I'm willing to accept that wont happen and have my own opinions as to why.

[Marc]

To be honest, defending the park whenever you feel it should be, is always...And yes, do you have any idea how much the park makes?

I just look at the park for what it is, go there and enjoy it for what there is, if I have any gripes with the park (of which I do) I dont make any secret of it, even if I dont always post it on here!

Once again your bringing other parks into this as if it's an excuse for Thorpe to do so. Your probably quite right that Chessington's rides won't be running at maximum capacity, however the major difference, there won't be 20 minute queue's!!! Which is pretty much the whole reason for this discussion, that Thorpe is running rides on reduced capacity WITH queue's, queue's which are un-necessary. And can I just say, on the Alton front, yesterday the park was absolutely dead, ridiculously so (due to atrocious weather), and yet, Th13teen STILL on 3 trains, and all other rides also, on full capacity or if they weren't on full capacity, the queue was short. (As in walk-on to 5 mins)

Thorpe was dead yesterday, all rides ran on full capacity apart from Tidal wave which was on 2 boats and was walk on.. TBH I suspect both parks would have prepared to be slightly busier than they actually were.

[Tom]

At one point today Inferno had a queue through the whole pen, which would've be called a 20-25 minute queue had it been two trains.Justsayin'.But that was an abnormality as I had queued 20 minutes before seeing that.

[Ricky]

This topic has filled me with rage. For starters, Stealth running one train with 10 minute queue means that the time it take to fill one train and go round back into station gives them a bit extra time form a short queue, then you put two trains on then theres a constant flow of people so the queue would struggle to get any form of queue. Just think Stealth 20 people every 40/50 or so seconds making a 10 minute queue with approx 100 people about 2/3 minutes (obvisouly the inflow into queue is varied so will decrease dramatically to less then half of that in seconds). or one train a less constant flow with a short queue where you can garentee full trains significantly reducing the chances of a rollback. Its common knowledge for Stealth. I happened to be in the back today and everytime I gandered to Stealth the queue was only at the bottom of the staires! Even on one train thats not even a 5 minute queue. Right next, Nemesis Inferno, I queued no more then 15 minutes today, on one train as it was. Put two trains on and you struggle to reach a 5 minute queue at any point. why bother wasting hundreds of pounds sending empty trains? I'm sure if you were in the parks position who are only out their to make money you would do the same! why waste money that you want?Again Colossus queued from just outside the building, with two trains thats like me riding alone. Understandibly I wouldnt but as an example.Saw was running 8 cars I believe today with about a 5/10 minute queue, understable with its high throughputs due to the constant inflow and outflow of guests. however even if it was on 6 or 7 cars the queue wouldnt trek beyond 20 minutes. XNWO, though now seemingly inaccessible you can access it but presumably with its walkon today I think it was only running 3 or 4 trains. And the moral of story is, Thorpe are being smart and are not being reckless when they do not need to be.

[James6]

Oh, and another of the "Thorpe can do no wrong" boys joins in. I won't be carrying on this discussion in this forum.