How Many Trains?

[James6]

^ Going to agree, the general public DO realise... not all of them, but they do. Go stand in the Peeking Heights queue at Chessington and tell me they don't realise that not all pods are being filled...Also, the Silver Star situation is completely different, running with 2 trains when it could run 3, is a different piece of cake to running 1 when it could run 2.

[Mark9]

^ Going to agree, the general public DO realise... not all of them, but they do. Go stand in the Peeking Heights queue at Chessington and tell me they don't realise that not all pods are being filled...Also, the Silver Star situation is completely different, running with 2 trains when it could run 3, is a different piece of cake to running 1 when it could run 2.

1. Peeking. There's a difference between seeing empty pods going round and only seeing one train.2. Silverstar. I'm not saying it isn't different, I'm saying Thorpe aren't the only park that run on lower capacities.Sweet Jesus...

[D4n]

1. Peeking. There's a difference between seeing empty pods going round and only seeing one train.

True. But not completely different, the public will still notice. For example - Velocity at Flamingo Land - in the queue I heard several people saying 'why don't they add the second train' (queue was about 30 minutes), Velocity doesn't even have a seconds train, but they knew that the capacity would be increased with the addition of a second train.

2. Silverstar. I'm not saying it isn't different, I'm saying Thorpe aren't the only park that run on lower capacities.

This is true, but, in my opinion, this doesn't make it OK for Thorpe to do so too. If the queue is 15+ minutes long, and you can increase the capacity, I don't care which ride or park I'm at, they should be increasing it.

[Marc]

True. But not completely different, the public will still notice. For example - Velocity at Flamingo Land - in the queue I heard several people saying 'why don't they add the second train' (queue was about 30 minutes), Velocity doesn't even have a seconds train, but they knew that the capacity would be increased with the addition of a second train.

So your telling me, when at the back of a full Colossus queue guests will notice / work out or even care how many trains its on?

This is true, but, in my opinion, this doesn't make it OK for Thorpe to do so too. If the queue is 15+ minutes long, and you can increase the capacity, I don't care which ride or park I'm at, they should be increasing it.

Thank god we have people who know what their doing in charge of our parks then!

[D4n]

So your telling me, when at the back of a full Colossus queue guests will notice / work out or even care how many trains its on?

Yes.

[rickydoodle]

^ I disagree, I agree they will recognise the length of their wait, they are indifferent about the ride hardware - especially with a ride like Colossus. Maybe more so with a ride like Velocity due to the fact it is of a very open design and the train has a relatively low capacity. The fact that they were insisting a second train should be added only demonstrates the public's lack of understanding when it comes to coaster hardware.If you asked Thorpe's guest services (or any other park's) how many complaints they get regarding the capacity of rides from the public, I would suspect it is minimal. The British public are so used to queueing for rides, it's part of the theme park culture.

[electricBlll]

Why does the GP always turn out to be in the centre of these ridiculous debates? One day you should actually go and carry out a servey with this mysterious "GP" race of humanity, and then you might stop arguing.

[D4n]

Why does the GP always turn out to be in the centre of these ridiculous debates? One day you should actually go and carry out a servey with this mysterious "GP" race of humanity, and then you might stop arguing.

Whilst I agree with your point on the GP, I fail to see how this is a ridiculous debate?

[electricBlll]

Well you are all arguing, the same thing is now happening in the "Is Alton Towers still going to be no.1?" topic. You all have very good points that you are making, and I don't want to give my opinion in case you all start arguing with me. What I will say is that Thorpe Park's visitors are not either "enthusiast" or "general public". The situation is not black or white, it is far more complicated than that.Oh, what am I saying? Just carry on...

[rickydoodle]

Is a forum not for airing views and debating?The simple fact is that a business is designed to make a profit and should do so in the most effective way possible.

What I will say is that Thorpe Park's visitors are not either "enthusiast" or "general public"

Attractions in the leisure industry are not visited by the general public? Who exactly visits them?

[electricBlll]

What I am saying is that people are incredibly diverse, so you cannot split them into "enthusiast" and "general public". Some people will notice the number of trains, some will not. There is no way that you can tell who notices what just because they are not "enthusiasts". Sorry if that did not come across.I knew I should not have butted in. Higher throughput is what they should be aiming for, obviously. However, I don't really care if "the GP" notices how many trains there are at all, so I obviously don't deserve to have a place in this furious debate.EDITThanks JoshC (below).

[JoshC.]

^^Use a bit of logic. He's saying it's wrong to generalise everyone inro two groups...

I don't want to give my opinion in case you all start arguing with me.

This actually upsets me.When people feel they cannot share their view in case they're shot down, or out of fear that they'd be accused of being 'wrong' or narrow minded ir something.I have found many of your opinions very fair judged and interesting and just as thoughtful as many others' for what it's worth Bill.

[rickydoodle]

I don't think anybody is saying that the GP are not diverse, of course they are - the British public is more diverse now than it ever was.Let me put it this way - the 'enthusiast opinion' is based upon knowledge gained from having a specific interest in the field of coasters and theme parks. The 'non enthusiast' opinion (I'll refrain from calling them the GP) is probably not as well informed as they are there purely to enjoy the coasters and park for what it is, without having an extended opinion based on in-depth/technical knowledge that you would associate with enthusiasts.

[Ricky]

my last opinionafter tadys visit is anyone who says it had to be on two trains on any ride needs to think twice after 8 seats locked off on Colossus and still running with empty seats as was all the otehr coasters. Saw inclusive with 7 cars.

[daboywunda]

To pick up on an earlier point (on page one) - I was at Alton Towers a week ago and the park was dead. Most of the rides were in fact running on reduced capacity with Oblivion on 4 trains, Nemesis on 1, Air on 2 (1 station), Rita on 1 and Th13teen on 2 (having started the day on 3 and being reduced) - Nemesis' AND Rita's 2nd train were introduced only when one train operation had a queue of 30 mins+ that lasted for a minimum of an hour and was reduced again once the queues were under control.Also, I'm not sure if it's true, but I'm sure that I heard some-where that Stealth costs the park £250 every time it launches? So, assuming that's true; if the park isn't busy enough to fill the trains fully but can half their costs by halving their capacity, then doesn't that make sense? I'm sure you would if it was your business surely? Judging on the original post, a 10 minute queue wouldn't be a dire thing on 1 train operation, when the park is dead any-way, giving ample opportunity for re-rides and short queues.. its not like the queue was an hour on 1 train and thorpe refused to add the 2nd train (like they HAVE done on Colossus a few years back)In my opinion, the only rides that would ever need to be run at full capacity regardless of park attendance would be the current new attraction that needs to impress people (Saw and Th13teen currently for example) with the addition of the rides that are still popular and consistently get massive queues (Nemesis & Air) when these are required. It's just business sense!

[rickydoodle]

I heard some-where that Stealth costs the park £250 every time it launches?

That's not true, the rest of your post however, is spot on.

[daboywunda]

cool, thanks rickydoodle. I wasn't sure when I heard it as it seemed a bit steep based on the number of launches it would do in a day at full capacity! But the principle is the same whatever the cost per launch is...(I think I got the figure from the rent-out price of Stealth. there was a brochure some-where that advertised hiring Stealth out for £250 a launch)

[rickydoodle]

cool, thanks rickydoodle. I wasn't sure when I heard it as it seemed a bit steep based on the number of launches it would do in a day at full capacity! But the principle is the same whatever the cost per launch is...

Exactly, I agree wholeheartedly. Also, single/reduced train operation also allows for maintenance to take place between 9 - 5. It makes sense.Also, I hate to bring this up again as some people don't seem to accept it, however - if crowds are light, there is obviously less income for the park on that day (less entry/fastrack/parking/food income) therefore operating costs need to be reduced. That's how businesses work.If you run Air on two trains with a single station, you almost half your staffing costs for the day.

[Coasterfreck]

hi there acotionaly tidal wave only uses one car / boat

[MikeyT]

People seem to be missing the main point. The point isn't about running one- I'm pretty sure people can understand why attractions would be running at a reduced capacity if there was a minimal queue. The issue is having one train out when there is a queue in excess of 30 minutes.I agree the general public may not know how many trains can run on a track at any given time, but what they will know is the amount of time they've been queueing. It's a psychological thing with one train operation as well- a 30 minute queue with one train involves standing in the same position for an extended period of time, or not actually moving very far at all. With two trains with the same amount of queue time, you move a lot more and is a much more satisfying experience!

[rickydoodle]

People seem to be missing the main point. The point isn't about running one- I'm pretty sure people can understand why attractions would be running at a reduced capacity if there was a minimal queue. The issue is having one train out when there is a queue in excess of 30 minutes.

On a quiet day, I guess if the queue is 30 minutes with a single train, it maybe around 12 minutes with two trains. On a busy day it wouldn't be uncommon for Inferno to hit 60/70 mins. So I guess (and I don't know...) that a 30 minute wait on a quieter day still represents good value for money. Even at 30 minutes per coaster you'll still be able to do all four of the parks major coasters in a morning - for the same price as if it was the weekend (where it may take you twice as long). Like I said earlier, perhaps the additional maintenance time is considered a bigger priority - I don't know. On a quiet day there is less income coming into the park, and again - by running rides in this manner, it does allow operating costs to be reduced to realign the income/profit. I guess it's just supply and demand really... like checkouts at Morrisons!

[AstroDan]

- Nemesis' AND Rita's 2nd train were introduced only when one train operation had a queue of 30 mins+ that lasted for a minimum of an hour and was reduced again once the queues were under control.

There must have been technical problems. There is not a chance in hell that Alton would not run rides with two trains if there was a queue of 1/2 hour.Without sounding big headed, from working there in the past, knowing many people who still work there and visiting very regularly - it simply would not happen unless there was a fault with one of the trains. If Rita had a 30 minute wait on 1 train, the queue would have been pretty much to the snack shop. The operator would simply not be allowed to run it on one train with such a queue. Nemesis on 1 train with 1/2 hour would also be past merge point!EDIT - have just spoken to a friend who worked on Nemesis until August this year - he said in all his time at the park the ride NEVER ran on one train, only on a couple of occasions when there was a fault. Even Theme Park Review had 2 train operation for their ERT with only 50 guests.Alton simply do not run rollercoasters on one train if there is a 30 minute wait.

[Ricky]

There must have been technical problems. There is not a chance in hell that Alton would not run rides with two trains if there was a queue of 1/2 hour.Without sounding big headed, from working there in the past, knowing many people who still work there and visiting very regularly - it simply would not happen unless there was a fault with one of the trains. If Rita had a 30 minute wait on 1 train, the queue would have been pretty much to the snack shop. The operator would simply not be allowed to run it on one train with such a queue. Nemesis on 1 train with 1/2 hour would also be past merge point!EDIT - have just spoken to a friend who worked on Nemesis until August this year - he said in all his time at the park the ride NEVER ran on one train, only on a couple of occasions when there was a fault. Even Theme Park Review had 2 train operation for their ERT with only 50 guests.Alton simply do not run rollercoasters on one train if there is a 30 minute wait.

Sorry to burst your bubble but ive seen lowered capacity at towers. ive seen Oblivion on 4 cars, rita on 1, Nemesis on. These things happen your.

[Marc]

Sorry to burst your bubble but ive seen lowered capacity at towers. ive seen Oblivion on 4 cars, rita on 1, Nemesis on. These things happen your.

Maybe they had technical faults.. Good to see theyve gone up north

[Ricky]

Maybe they had technical faults.. Good to see theyve gone up north

you cant seriously tell me with a straight face oblivion on one station with half the capacity as broken trains on a day that felt emptier then chessington (if possible). Anyways, ona bad note was very dissapointed to see inferno on two trains, when it had 3 people on. should of been on 3 just to get those other 4 people in the queue on quicker!