JoshC.

I have to echo Matt's comments sadly. We can say everything about this being a "preview" day, and so that gives the park an out for not having everything be ready. But at the same time, this is still the first day the park is open for 2023, and it felt like the park wasn't really ready in some ways. To highlight the point... -Incomplete renovation of the Lower Dome -No visual work done to various new F&B outlets (Doughnut Time in Lost City, Tacotina, etc) -Multiple rides not ready -Signage not in place I'm understanding that these things can sometimes be out of the park's control. And again, this is a preview. But when there's so many things that aren't ready, you have to wonder if it's poor planning from the park, since they're the common denominator. Dobble Tea Party is an inoffensive retheme tbh, but I hope they paint the entire building purple. The higher up parts are still dark blue and it's a jarring contrast. On a more positive note, the Lower Dome looks nice and I'm sure will be cool when complete. The picnic area replacing Containment is a nice idea, and if they add some more shrubbery it'll be cool. There's been some good touch ups throughout the park and they've made some positive changes, as have already been documented. It's fair to say though that they should also be looking at the wider picture of the park, because things feel disjointed and a bit weak for now.

It's funny how the park have managed to convince people that the return of paper maps is a new thing, and that this is some new style map. The map has been around for a few years around the park. Paper maps returned last year, with event overlays also happening too. People have short memories. The map focusing on direction and ease of use is weird. The park have said they're not focusing on themed areas because the park is small, yet they're using a highly accurate, bordering on bland, map so people can direct themselves. It's like the park hear feedback and seesaw from one extreme to the other, even if it creates contradiction. The BK modernisation is a good thing for practicality. However, to completely lose the theming is a real shame, especially when they seemed to be focusing on smaller details again.

Whilst it could be read as this is the final year of the contract (which would make sense as Thorpe/Merlin tend to favour 3 year contracts on IPs for smaller attractions), it could also be read as "we don't/can't confirm beyond this year due to the contract with the IP". BML could easily remain without the Black Mirror branding too tbf, with no changes to the experience. Though if they want to repurpose Slammer's site for a ride in the future, arguably it should leave when that time comes.

It looks nice in isolation in an "abandoned train station" vibe, which seems to be the theme/story. I'm still concerned how it will look in a wider context when you look at it integrated with the brick warehouse. Whilst I understand why they're showing close ups of the work, I think it's also telling that they're not showing wider pictures.

Not quite in the way you're describing. They have a team of 'Entertainment Technicians', some of who will have experience and ability to do creative work. But their focus will be more on the technical work for events, rather than scenic work. The park work closely with external companies, like Unique Concepts and UVE, to provide creative scenic work. In the last couple of years, there's also been overlap of Thorpe and Chessington departments - for example, I believe the Creek Freaks Unchained float used during last FN was designed and made by Chessington's creative team. In the past, Thorpe have had more scenic creative individuals, and have pushed for a more dedicated department. Unfortunately, for one reason or another, it just has happened.

That track still looks grey to me, not blue.

Hadn't heard of Dobble until I saw this. Random sponsor is random. Let's face it, it will always be referred to as "The Teacups" by anyone who rides it. Also, put me in the camp of people who felt that this didn't need any work. On the one hand, it's good to see stuff which doesn't necessarily need attention being given attention. On the other hand, it's a shame when there's other, more pressing, things which should be dealt with too.

The beyond vertical drop..? I don't know for absolute certain, but there's very little theming from Old Town which could realistically be moved to Mexicana and thematically fit. So I'd say the answer is "Nothing have been relocated".

It's a Rocky Express, it's an Enterprise, it's a... https://twitter.com/AttractionSc/status/1629420740381495296?t=8mI3USypJrJQrwAIF3Qurg&s=19 Zamperla 360 Discovery!

I think hot snow falls up, but I'm not sure people are ready to hear that yet. It's been said in Jack Silkstone's Ghost Train behind the scenes video that the warehouse scene is changing, which all but guarantees that the floating carriage will be changed / removed. I didn't know that it's been directly confirmed it's being removed...I imagine Thorpe have said so in their Facebook group and I've just missed it?

Not sure whether you meant no jokes of the crude kind, or no jokes about it being the perfect spot for Rocky Express. In any case, good call.

It's good to see that there's a fair amount of work going on inside. Suggests they have been given a pretty decent budget for this, which is good. I believe there's been some rumours floating around that the Duel retheme to Alton Manor could be as high as £5m...would be nice if we're even getting half that here. I'd been holding onto this for a bit, but now that Mr Cottonrock has been able to show inside, I see no reason why I cannot share this now too. Here's a nice look at the hanging carriage scene with the lights on. It doesn't take a lot to see the mirrors in this lighting. Now here's the question: what do they do with this scene if they don't have a floating carriage illusion? Do they just change it to a floating tube carriage? Do they try and transform it to just looking like a station? The trouble with redoing this scene is that it was specifically designed for the floating carriage illusion, specifically a Victorian train carriage. Retrospectively turning it into something else is not an easy task. The time period change (Victoriana to more modern day) is not an issue really. Plenty of train stations still use buildings built from a long time ago, and feel grand and dated. I'm not a fan of the concept art shown for the exterior. It kind of goes hand in hand with what I said just now...there's plenty of train stations which use buildings built a long time ago, and they might have modern retrofitting in place. But it's not the most exciting or visually pleasing thing to look at in the real world. And it certainly doesn't work in a theme park setting either. The concept art is 'fine', but doesn't really strike me as interesting or exciting to look at.

Testing, 1, 2, testing...

I'm clearly not as observant or enthusiastic as I thought I was, because that facade looks exactly the same to me.

Well shut my mouth and call me Emily, she is in the story. To celebrate, I've decided to finally update the thread title sensibly.

Moved discussion of Ghost Train to it's own thread: This thread has now been condemned to the past, and will forever be here now exclusively for conversation on Derren Brown's Ghost Train: Rise of the Demon - Venture into the Tunnel: The Secret of the Coughing Person Who Doesn't Have Covid But Makes You Wonder if they Do

The park have stressed that it is a work in progress and what they have at the moment is an undercoat. Not being an experienced scenic painter, I'm not sure what a blue undercoating would be good for...but we shall wait and see. On a broader note, it's nice that the park are openly sharing these things and have a medium to do so. But it's odd to do so when there's little context of what it's becoming. Like at the moment, the photos shared have shown us they are repainting the exterior. An unexpected development frankly, but with no clue of what the exterior will look like, we have no understanding of how much progress this 'work in progress' is showing, and no indication as to what it will become. It's something which would have been better shared either after it's been completed, or with accompanying concept art to show what it will become. The painting of the exterior is odd. The exterior was designed off and inspired by a train warehouse near Willesden Junction, which was built in the Victorian era. So regardless of what era they theme the ride to, the building works for the train motif. And the exterior, whilst not the most exciting thing in existence, is still striking and good. But heyho, we'll see what the final product looks like and go from there. The changes in era was something which was always brought up as an issue for DBGT, going from Victorian to tube carriage. I wonder if they're explicitly addressing that now? It would certainly be a bold decision to retheme the hanging carriage!

Very weird video really. Nice to have the ride captured in a good quality video, and to be able to relive the VR, if for nothing else other than just archiving / documenting it. Obviously no dark ride is shown in a better light in a video compared to experiencing it in person, so it's a bit of an odd move from a Thorpe / marketing perspective (and with Jack effectively being an extension of Thorpe's marketing, it makes sense). But to not include all the VR is weird and odd, especially to skip over some of the better bits. The video really highlights how bad scene 2 got, and also how worn the scenery is there. The extreme darkness in the finale is obviously there to hide the fact the demon costume doesn't exist properly, but makes it come across even worse. And whilst a solo POV is easier to record and makes sense from a practicality perspective, it really does make the experience feel even more awkward. Nice idea and all, but what this really does is highlight many of the issues with DBGT and little else.

Just seeing Loggers' first lift hill exposed is...kinda surreal almost? The exposure of Saw's layout will take a bit of getting used to too. And that angle certainly shows off the airtime hill!

Which was, of course, called Ghost Train Smokery. Now that is my true ghost train.

To be fair, compared from the 2017 version (ie when they needed more because of the new ending), the actor and staffing levels in Ghost Train remained pretty consistent. In 2017, there was: -Staff member at entrance -Staff member at batch -Staff member for pre show -Staff member for load room -2 staff members (ride hosts) per train (3 trains in operation) -2 staff members (ride operators) operating the ride -Staff member for VR goggle cleaning -Approx. 3 actors in train crash scene -2 actors in finale Total: 9 ride staff, 5 actors Last year, there was: -Staff member at batch -Staff member for pre show -2 staff members (ride hosts) per train (2 trains in operation) -2 staff members (ride operators) operating the ride -Staff member for VR goggle cleaning -Approx. 3 actors in train crash scene -2 actors in finale, when in operation -Actor in load room, sometimes Total: 7 ride staff, 3-6 actors The load room actor seemed to be chopped and changed and wasn't necessary. The finale was skipped sometimes over FN if there were actor shortages. So whilst there has been staffing reductions on Ghost Train, it's not as dramatic as some may think. That at least suggests the park can keep a level of consistency with actors and staffing for Ghost Train. I have several thoughts regarding the development. Firstly, it's good that they're doing something with this. DBGT could not continue to operate in the way it did last year, especially towards the end. Literally having it SBNO would be better than the embarrassing state it was in over Fright Nights. The story idea sounds solid enough, and works nicely with what they have. No VR is a double-edged sword. Obviously the VR was outdated, temperamental and a faff. But there was potential with it, which was largely unfulfilled. But the bigger thing now is what do you do without the VR? The 'ride' portion is very much just the train moving a bit, stopping for a few minutes, and moving again. The park have said they expect the attraction to last about 15minutes, which is the same as DBGT. That would mean each train portion of the ride is about 4 minutes. Now here's the thing, how do they plan on keeping a train carriage full of people entertained for 4 minutes? Putting screens in the windows could work, but watching a screen entirely for 4 minutes in a train carriage full of people is going to be a bit awkward, no? And would also mean potentially halving the capacity of each train. Entirely actor based sounds impractical given the set up of the trains. A blend of the two is probably the best way forward, but difficult to execute. There's talks of extra / new special effects too. With no VR it may be easier to introduce / maintain special effects, such as smoke, leg ticklers (which were planned but never installed), or bringing back things like rocking the train carriage. But how much do those things truly add. The best bet for Ghost Train, in my opinion, is to go 'full Dungeons' on it. The Dungeons are, in essence, actor-led, interactive scenes, with a loose narrative linking it together, and some ride elements. If the park can recreate something like that, then it will be fairly good. Whether they can is a different matter. And if that's what they go for, they need to ensure that it's marketed as such. Setting suitable expectations for guests is perhaps the biggest challenge for this attraction right now.

Thanks @coasterverse - you beat both me to creating the thread, and StevenVig to moaning about an improperly titled thread! I'm impressed and thankful!!

Very fluid-looking year for me at the moment. UK-wise, I'll hit up the Merlin quartet as ever. Blackpool is an outside possibility too. Maybe Pleasurewood Hills and the parks that sorta way too. My main hits abroad at Asterix, Madrid, Port Aventura and Walibi Belgium. Copenhagen, Oslo and Stockholm are potential short trips too. Also considering Gardaland/Movieland Italy as well. It all very much depends on finances and timings at this point now. No chance will all of these happen, but if I tick off a couple of them, I'll be happy.

Announcement is due at 10am tomorrow, whatever is happening.