JoshC.

This seems like as good a thread as any to post this in... I passed my PhD today!

This is something I've seen suggested a few times, and it's certainly possible. There are two things that make me think it won't (just) be demolishing the entirety of Loggers: 1. Merlin don't demolish stuff unless they need to. They keep things for as long as physically possible. If something can be left SBNO they will. Look at Thorpe and Loggers and Slammer as examples. Towers only removed the likes of Submission and Ripsaw because they would be too obvious if left standing. They won't decide to just remove bits of Loggers they don't need to. They will remove what needs to be removed and nothing else. 2. Usually, you don't need permission to remove a ride. You just...remove it. There's exceptions and caveats of course, but generally speaking, parks are free to simply take something down if they want to. It's another reason why UK parks like to keep rides SBNO until they're replaced: when it comes to planning applications, they can say "look, we have something here, we're just replacing it with something else". If this is just for the removal of Loggers and nothing else, it's possible they're including this addition because it covers themselves in case someone moans about work happening outside of the permitted zone. Would be a grey area I guess. As said, the likely course here is that they're extending the zone for practicality purposes: either for ease of construction for the ride, or for extra engineering / maintenance once the ride is open. That would definitely fall under "design developments". But equally, a change in layout isn't something to completely rule out, and would also fall under design developments.

Forgive me for continually posting random pictures, but here's an overlay of the two plans, which is probably the clearest look at how the development area has been extended: Now, time for some speculation: If this for a layout change, I have an idea for what it could be. And I don't expect it to be anything drastic. Many people noted that the ride takes a lot of speed into the suspected splash zone area, and that that area could be quite trimmed. And even if not, it does have a lot of speed and doesn't do a lot. I expect that the short layout is, in part, a creative choice. The ride very much looks designed to be big, fast-paced and hard hitting. Rather than creating a long, drawn out experience, it seems to be a "throw everything at you as quickly as possible" experience, designed so that when you hit the brakes, you're left stunned, and begging for more in a good way. You won't feel short changed, but you'll want to go round again. So a potential adaptation to the layout would be as follows: Now forgive the crude drawing, but let me explain what this would achieve: -A straight section post-splashdown, to include one or two powerful airtime hills. -A new turnaround, which could be dragged out for some sustained forces, or be quirky / different (like the other turnaround) -Give more space pre-brake run for another airtime hill, rather than the airtime moment post-turnaround as currently suggested. My particular thought on the final point is that they could create a 'double down' airtime moment which is similar to Loggers Leap's drop. This would be in the exact same position as Loggers drop, and serve as a reminder/Easter egg/reference/whatever you want to call it to the ride (something that Thorpe and John Burton, the likely Creative Lead of the project, love doing). This would address the concern which a lot of people had about the ride's ending, whilst keeping in line with the (what I expect to be) feel of the ride. May not be everyone's cup of tea or what people want, but it's what I feel would be most likely. Equally, I think this is a sufficient change to improve the ride. Obviously, this is all speculation. But I don't see anything more significant than this.

Are changes a-coming? A new document has appeared on a planning application related to Project Exodus, which shows a change in boundary... Before: After: And to show this more clearly, here's the size of area that's been added, the green line is roughly the old cut off point: The area now includes the Platform 15 route up to the bridge, as well as more parts over water, including the Loggers track over there. Now I don't think this necessarily means that the layout could change. However, it's certainly possible. If we look at the original plan, the coaster doesn't hit all the way to the boundary, but does come close. And I believe the boundary plan is just where they will do any sort of work. So it could be just for access during construction, or to create an engineering route. For what it's worth, the document suggests this is due to a development in the design: We won't know exactly what this means until the full plans go in, but for now, there's a slither of evidence to suggest that changes to the layout are possible.

Indeed, that's why Thorpe stopped selling balloons - all the helium budget went to Colossus. (It's a little early for April Fools; think you've been had)

Bit weird to now have two Rocking Tug attractions in one park, but heyho. Investment in that area is good, and some small new rides won't do any harm. I worry about the queues for the Watermania thing, especially as Chessington are pretty thin on the ground with water rides. With a new Pirate Ship and a drop tower last year, investment is going in the right direction. But if we're being truly honest, these investments follow from years of neglect and years of rethemes which had been aimed at fixing that neglect. So there's an air of 'It's about time!' that these things have happened, and I hope that this investment can continue, and the quality is of a good standard. It was weird, I visited the park yesterday and walked right through the area these rides are going. Little did I know it would be the last time I'd walk through it, and probably the last time I'd walk through Pirates Cove. The planning application says construction would start in March and the rides would open by June.

So I'll be doing the UK Merlin quartet and Paultons Park again this year. I'd like to do a bit more UK stuff too (Pleasurewood Hill maybe), but we'll see. As for international stuff, after a break of not going abroad (due to Covid rules and finishing a PhD), this is what I have planned concretely: April Heide Park and Hansa Park June Six Flags Great Adventure Hersheypark Kings Dominion Busch Gardens Williamsburg +a selection (or all) of Six Flags America, Knoebels and Dorney Also planning to return to Phantasialand and finally ride Fly, as well as go back to Plopsaland and Walibi Belgium for their new rides. I'd also like to do the Gardaland/Movieland Italy duo and a couple of parks in Denmark, butttttt those plans are a bit more up in the air at the moment.

As has been said, we won't know until the park officially confirm. However, I highly believe that Rocky Express will just stay where it is until it needs to be ripped out, Timber Tug Boat will go to a different park and Lumber Jump will be relocated within the park.

The park have announced 2 new events: Mardi Gras and Carnival. Mardi Gras takes places in May/June, and Carnival in July/August. These accompany Oktoberfest (September) and Fright Nights (October): The descriptions for the new events do sound reasonably similar. And with Oktoberfest too, it is 3 events which sound incredibly similar at heart, just dressed with different colours. It's good to see the park diversify and include more events. But hopefully they are sufficiently different and worthwhile in their own right.

ding ding ding, we have a winner It is from the 'Load Room', the room after the pre-show and before the hanging carriage scene. It's also facing backwards, in a way one would not normally look. So yeah, a tricky one

Maybe I made this a bit too hard, so let's zoom out just a little...

Mr Rabbit is still on his travels and this is not right. --- BOO! Probably time for a clue... he he he

Good guess but unfortunately not. We hope your guess makes a splashback soon! 😉

A splashing guess, but like it's fire effect, not quite right!

Winner winner chicken dinner. Let's see:

I would imagine then it's Hudson River Rafts?

Angry Birds 4D Experience (5) Black Mirror Labyrinth (5) Colossus (5) Depth Charge (5) Derren Brown’s Ghost Train (1) Detonator: Bomb's Away (5) Flying Fish (5) King Pig's Wild Hog Dodgems (5) Lumber Jump (5) Mr. Monkey's Banana Ride (5) Nemesis Inferno (7) Quantum (5) Rocky Express (5) Rumba Rapids (5) Rush (6) Samurai (6) Saw - The Ride (5) Stealth (6) Storm in a Teacup (5) Storm Surge (5) The Swarm (6) Tidal Wave (5) Timber Tug Boat (3) Vortex (5) Zodiac (5) Timber Tug G.O.A.T. + @MattyMoo's Spooky Prediction Carriage -

Rocky Express is currently still at Thorpe Park, untouched. It is highly unlikely that it will be moved elsewhere.

Worth noting that along with Rocky Express and Timber Tug Boat leaving the Rides Listing page, so too has Wet Wet Wet: https://www.thorpepark.com/explore/theme-park/rides/ Though it did not open at all last year, it was still listed on the website: https://web.archive.org/web/20210918113557/https://www.thorpepark.com/explore/theme-park/rides/ Interesting if Timber leaves and Lumber stays. I would have thought that ripping out Wet Wet Wet and replacing it with Timber and Lumber would have created a nice little family friendly area, with those two, Flying Fish, Depth Charge and the Beach.

Thinking about this made me realise that most (possibly all) of the screen-heavy dark rides I've done have been interactive (ie shooters). And as I enjoy shooters, I've got positive experiences with dark rides with screens. But at the same time, the ones which are better are the ones where the use of screens is justified and is blended in with real world environments. I certainly think that more traditional dark rides can benefit from screens if done correctly. I would be more cautious to experience a dark ride which is screen, blank, screen, blank.

Angry Birds 4D Experience (5) Black Mirror Labyrinth (5) Colossus (5) Depth Charge (5) Derren Brown’s Ghost Train (2) Detonator: Bomb's Away (5) Flying Fish (5) King Pig's Wild Hog Dodgems (5) Lumber Jump (5) Mr. Monkey's Banana Ride (5) Nemesis Inferno (7) Quantum (5) Rocky Express (5) Rumba Rapids (5) Rush (5) Samurai (5) Saw - The Ride (5) Stealth (5) Storm in a Teacup (5) Storm Surge (5) The Swarm (6) Tidal Wave (5) Timber Tug Boat (5) Vortex (5) Zodiac (5) Winferno + Derren Brown's Spooky Choo Choo Ride -

At first I didn't think this was the case. But, yeah it's in TPG's article which copies from the Merlin announcement, and staff will be moving over to be employed by Aramark: I think that's a huge deal, and will be interesting to see the effect that has. To use HB Leisure as the example, the parks do not hire those staff. It's all through HBL. They have minimal involvement with the park's onboarding / training processes too - again, all through HBL. It was the same with Picsolve too (I don't know if that's changed with the move to Pomvom). Will that mean, in the mid-to-long term, the same thing happens for Food and Beverage? If so, that creates some big changes: -A workforce within one place with more diverse training, which may not be standardised. -Different benefits (Merlin staff get free tickets to Merlin attractions, HBL and Picsolve staff do not) and rates of pay Those are things which can have a big knock on effect to the type of people who want to work there / who is hired, and the quality of the staff. And an interesting potential knock on effect would be Annual Pass discount. You don't get it on HBL games, and Annual Passes and Picsolve have been a weird mix since forever. Could the same happen with F&B? At the very least, discounts are still advertised now for F&B with current passes, so it won't happen immediately. But what about in 2-3 years time? As a passholder, I do hope that that's something that has been agreed to stick around with this change. It's interesting to note that especially over the last couple of years, the park have been getting in external F&B companies for their special events. Thorpe and Chessington have used a company called Pineapple in particular. All of the stuff on the lawns at Towers has been external too. I wonder what affect this will have there. I do also wonder if this will actually change the number of restaurants and food places at the parks. I imagine the agreement is more along the lines of "We have this many units, you staff them and get x amount of profit". So it will be hard to imagine a change there. I think in the short term, we won't see much of a change. Especially for this season, most things will already be pretty set and it will be a case of dealing with the transition. It probably will be a good couple of years before we have any real change, but even then, if any changes are slow and gradual, we may not fully notice them (for better or worse). KFC and Burger King at Thorpe are run by KFC and Burger King. Like with HBL and Picsolve as above, the park are not involved in the hiring process. Similarly, Alton Towers have a few outlets run by Eastern Express, and that's an external operation. Like with the event food stalls, it will be interesting what happens there. Presumably the agreement is "Here's these units, run them to get this profit". But if Aramark feel that these other companies are taking away their custom, maybe they could kick up enough of a fuss... I've seen a fair few bad reviews / unhappy responses to the news. Without experiencing their offerings/service directly, I won't make full judgement yet, but there's definitely some worrying red flags present as it stands.

Tiger Rick

Let's kill off something to try and bring some progress back to this... Amity Beach (0) Angry Birds 4D Experience (5) Black Mirror Labyrinth (5) Colossus (4) Depth Charge (5) Derren Brown’s Ghost Train (5) Detonator: Bomb's Away (5) Flying Fish (5) King Pig's Wild Hog Dodgems (5) Lumber Jump (5) Mr. Monkey's Banana Ride (5) Nemesis Inferno (7) Quantum (6) Rocky Express (6) Rumba Rapids (5) Rush (5) Samurai (6) Saw - The Ride (5) Stealth (7) Storm in a Teacup (5) Storm Surge (5) The Swarm (5) Tidal Wave (5) Timber Tug Boat (5) Vortex (5) Zodiac (5) Stealth + Amity beach - And restarting: Angry Birds 4D Experience (5) Black Mirror Labyrinth (5) Colossus (5) Depth Charge (5) Derren Brown’s Ghost Train (5) Detonator: Bomb's Away (5) Flying Fish (5) King Pig's Wild Hog Dodgems (5) Lumber Jump (5) Mr. Monkey's Banana Ride (5) Nemesis Inferno (5) Quantum (5) Rocky Express (5) Rumba Rapids (5) Rush (5) Samurai (5) Saw - The Ride (5) Stealth (5) Storm in a Teacup (5) Storm Surge (5) The Swarm (5) Tidal Wave (5) Timber Tug Boat (5) Vortex (5) Zodiac (5)

Track has also appeared for Honey Harbour, a new Vekoma Junior coaster also opening in Sweet Valley: https://www.facebook.com/254765528749165/posts/956465801912464/