Matt N

I know there were a lot of audio changes on Friday to reflect the passing of the Queen. I wonder if that had a knock on effect onto Saturday (especially if the team who look after audio had others issues to deal with).

Saw has 8 cars. It used to run all 8 until a few years back (my memory is hazy...I want to say like 2018/9, but could be wrong there). I believe there was some operational reasoning behind it; the throughput on 8 isn't substantially greater than on 7 for the additional maintenance and engineering costs sounds plausible enough, but I could be pulling that out of my backside.
 
5 is the bare minimum that Saw runs on. To run it on that on a Saturday is...interesting. It would be very unusual for the park to actively choose to run it on 5 on a weekend imo, especially when the park have been largely very good at running rides on a suitable capacity the last couple of years in particular. But equally, it would be unusual for at least 2 cars to be out of order (depending on if the 8th car is also receiving maintenance as part of a cycle).
 
So yeah, unusual.

I don't believe the third boat has been used at all this year and often it seems to have been running leaving one row empty on the two boats on the circuit, though not sure why. 

I love how wild some of those theoretical throughputs are. Colossus for example is so wildly over exaggerated by Intamin. Where is that Tidal Wave capacity from, I always assumed it was around 1000 an hour on three boats.

Sorry... I never knew there was a thread already.

I could be wrong here, but I think that it has 8 in total and usually runs 7. That's definitely a number I remember hearing somewhere.

I could be wrong here, but I think that it has 8 in total and usually runs 7. That's definitely a number I remember hearing somewhere.

Interesting!
 
I’ve only ever really seen this sort of thing happening on Slammer, where I believe they had to wait for the air pressure to build each time enough before it could dispatch - resulting in quite a lot of standing around and time wasting during the loading!
There was also all the faff trying to balance each side of the arm with the other 🙄 nightmare.
 
Clearly that isn’t the reason for Saw, but would love to know what that was about.
 
out of interest, how many cars does Saw have, and how many usually run?

Its to regulate the service on reduced ride cars ….. saw is a duel unload, so cant unload 1 car at a time, on 5 cars every 6th dispatch will result in an extended wait to enable the unload.
 
why its on so few cars who knows, off peak strip downs ?

Something very interesting was happening on Saw today that I've never actually seen before on any of my previous Thorpe visits.
 
The ride appeared to be running on substantially reduced capacity; only 5 cars appeared to be running, and the throughput was around 350pph (363pph across 10 readings, to be exact; my usual timing of Saw tends to be around 700-750pph, for some idea), with the interval between dual dispatches averaging just over 2.5 minutes across 10 readings. The park were even announcing over the intercom that the ride was on "reduced capacity", and Saw's queue time loitered in the 90-120 minute for most of the day.
 
The interesting thing was, however, that while there were cars occupying both onload stations (I did wonder whether "reduced capacity" meant one station operation like Oblivion at Alton Towers sometimes runs, but this was not the case), the offload area was always completely empty for a period of 2 minutes or more... despite there always being a car filled with riders waiting to get off stacking immediately prior to it. Even though there was a car waiting behind it to offload people, it wasn't allowed to move into the offload area for a pretty long period of time, instead being stacked there for 2 minutes or more until another car came in behind it. This left the offload area completely empty for a good 2 minutes or so.
 
I also noticed that there was a wait of more than a minute to open the airgates even once both cars had arrived into the onload area, and once guests were loaded and restraints were checked, staff were also having to wait a bit before being able to dispatch a dual dispatch. The staff were as prompt at checking restraints as ever, but there seemed to be a fair amount of waiting before they could open the airgates and another extra bit of waiting before they could dispatch.
 
Does anyone know why this is, out of interest? I've never seen this happen before on any of my prior visits to Thorpe, and even on slightly reduced capacity, I wouldn't normally expect those types of operating procedures on Saw.
 

@Matt N this adds further certainty to my belief that The Haunted House is returning. If the Haunted House returns I hope they focus the storyline around Emily Alton. It would be great if air effects and leg ticklers are added to the vehicles. Thease effects could simulate Rats crawling over you. In addition it could simulate Snowey the Cat walking around.  and Vampires,Witches,Ghosts,Mummy’s and Emily Alton breathing on you. I’m hoping to visit Alton Towers next year to experience the returning Haunted House. 

RIP to that absolutely incredible launch!!
 
Even though Red Forces launch couldnt knock the skin off a rice pudding (meaning weak), I would personally still rather see that launch implemented to Dragster as opposed to ripping out a coaster that is visually iconic not only for Cedar Point but the coaster community as a whole.
 
This could also be good for the rides reliability as its a monsterous understatement to say Dragsters hydraulic launch is far from reliable.

The rumour mill has been saying for a while that top thrill dragster is likely to undergo a modernisation. Converting the ride from its hydraulic cable winch to a LSM system like that of Red Force in Porta Ventura. 
 
I suspect they might also change the end of the ride so they have something to market. 

Cedar Point have today confirmed that Top Thrill Dragster is no more. The ride will not be returning in its present form:
The tweet seems to suggest a possibility that the park could be “reviving” it in the form of a TTD Mk2, if you like (I found the use of “as you know it” very interesting), but for now; TTD in its original form is definitely done.
 
I am somewhat sad about this (I was very keen to ride it!), but I must admit that I’m not 100% surprised after the events of the last year or so. It should also be noted that the ride was allegedly somewhat unreliable even when it did operate.

I can sense that this ride will now be topping a number of “favourite defunct coaster” lists…
 
RIP Top Thrill Dragster 2003-2021

I honestly don't think I could live in the surrounding area (a uni friend does these days), the amount of traffic over the peak season would affectively control your spare time and considering how bad the access to the park actually is to boot.
 
Most of the neighbours have probably lived there since before it became a proper theme park. Got to play nicely otherwise it makes any future developments even harder to push through.

Back in the 80's Towers went from garden with the odd slide to a fully fledged amusement park. The locals already lived there and yes it caused massive issues. In the times we live in, things are very different and the locals seem much more forgiving of the noise from Towers. That being said, Nemesis received noise complaints in 2009 because of new wheels being louder.
 
It just makes sense for Towers to get on with its neighbours. They know the value Towers brings to the area but their lives shouldn't be ruined by the park either.

To be honest I can’t think of a good reason why anyone would object to an indoor ride, especially if the building can’t be seen easily from the neighbouring villages.  It really is the ultimate compromise.
A large building would also act as a sound barrier between the other rides and the park boundary, so even better really.
 
Merlin have seriously changed gear since going private. So much going on!
 
Towers and Thorpe might be in a bad way now, but the level of investment planned for the next few years is like nothing we’ve seen for many years.

@Matt N the site of this new Indoor attraction is very near to The World Of David Williams. When The World Of David Williams was The Land Of Make Believe this plot was part of the area. On old Alton Towers parks maps you’ll see that The Alton Beast,Wild Mouse and Big Apple were part of this area. I hope this development doesn’t receive objections at the Public Consultations. I say this as the mentioned Rollercoasters closed due to local residents complaining. Hopefully over  30 years later these residents have died/moved house. I think it’s pathetic to complain about noise from a Theme Park. Due to their nature noise is generated at these attractions. If you don’t like noise don’t move in close proximity to a Theme Park. Alternatively move away. It’s the residents that are at fault not the Theme Park. I’m surprised John Broome the then owner of Alton Towers didn’t complain about the local residents.

I've been on Google Earth scoping this area out and doing some comparisons with existing attractions to gauge some idea of what kind of space we have to play with here.
 
From what I could ascertain from a helpful guide that I saw elsewhere online, the Mouse site alone is around 1,795 square metres, the combined area available in and around both the Alton Mouse and the Alton Beast sites is around 4,005 square metres, and the Adventureland 4-11 space is roughly 2,005 square metres (could be a bit more if you felled the trees separating Adventureland 4-11 and Coaster Corner).
 
The whole combined area, if everything is amalgamated together and things like trees in the middle aren't considered (I didn't include the trees separating A4-11 and CC in either measurement) is around 7,079 square metres, but as I said, that is in very broad brush terms and literally includes everything within those 3 areas. I did exclude Merlin Magic Making to the North East, the Flag Tower to the North West, and the historic monument to the South, however, so it does take into account some of the boundaries faced.
 
For some idea, let's look at some existing indoor attractions as points of comparison:
Alton Towers' Other Dark Rides
Alton Towers Dungeon: 2,951 square metres Duel (excluding garden queue line and Gloomy Wood area): 3,080 square metres Nemesis Sub-Terra (excluding queue line): 743 square metres Gangsta Granny (excluding outdoor queue line): 881 square metres Other Merlin-Built Dark Rides/Areas
Derren Brown's Ghost Train (Thorpe Park): 3,680 square metres Flight of the Sky Lion (Legoland Windsor): 869 square metres (Sky Lion alone), 4,627 square metres (entirety of Lego Mythica) Lego Ninjago: The Ride (Legoland Windsor): 1,916 square metres (Lego Ninjago: The Ride alone), 2,843 square metres (entirety of Lego Ninjago World) Ghostbusters 5D (Heide Park): 1,746 square metres (possibly excluding queue line) Worldwide Enclosed/Indoor Coasters
The Walking Dead: The Ride (Thorpe Park): 2,563 square metres (excluding queue line) Van Helsing's Factory (Movie Park Germany): 3,859 square metres Movie Park Studio Tour (Movie Park Germany): 5,943 square metres Arthur: The Ride (Europa Park): 6,185 square metres (rough measurement of entire area) Star Wars Hyperspace Mountain (Disneyland Paris): 6,545 square metres Revenge of the Mummy (Universal Studios Florida): 9,358 square metres (rough measurement of entire building) Rock'n'Rollercoaster (Disney's Hollywood Studios): 11,552 square metres (rough measurement of entire area) Space Mountain (Magic Kingdom): 12,183 square metres (dome alone) Vogel Rok (Efteling): 3,987 square metres (possibly excluding some queue line) Crazy Bats (Phantasialand): 5,953 square metres CanCan Coaster (Europa Park): 1,985 square metres Worldwide Dark Rides
Symbolica (Efteling): 4,273 square metres (possibly excluding some queue line) Piraten in Batavia (Europa Park): 4,658 square metres (roughly... knowing the design of that Scandinavia/Holland area, god only knows if this is right...) Curse of DarKastle (Busch Gardens Williamsburg): 4,280 square metres The Amazing Adventures of Spider-Man (Universal's Islands of Adventure): 5,732 square metres Transformers: The Ride (Universal Studios Florida): 3,079 square metres Valhalla (Blackpool Pleasure Beach): 3,479 square metres Challenge of Tutankhamon (Walibi Belgium): 2,816 square metres Antarctica: Empire of the Penguin (SeaWorld Orlando): 4,643 square metres (ride building alone), 7,698 square metres (entire Antarctica realm) Hotel Transylvania (Motiongate Dubai): 3,672 square metres (including facade) In essence... I think they have a pretty big area to play with here! Bigger than any other Alton dark ride by a fair margin, and on par with some true dark ride and enclosed coaster heavyweights at other parks!

Interesting times!
 
Didn’t expect it, but great news it’s an indoor attraction.
 
There is quite a lot of room back there isn’t there?
I’d absolutely LOVE for this to be the next secret weapon coaster - something along the lines of Revenge of the Mummy at Universal would be the dream but who knows!
The timescales feel right for the SW cogs to be turning.
 
A flying theatre or other type would be cool too though.
 
I can’t see the Dungeons sticking around - perhaps they could go soon to make more space? That would be a decent space for a secret weapon, and bring some life to a bit of a dead spot  area of the park.
 
interesting times!
 

Hi guys. I have exciting news; it appears that Alton Towers is holding a consultation about building an “indoor attraction” on the former site of the Alton Mouse, within Coaster Corner (the area behind World of David Walliams):
Those “in the know” apparently think that this is to be the next Secret Weapon.
 
I’ve got to say, I think this is brilliant news! A new indoor attraction will definitely add some variety to Alton Towers’ lineup, which should hopefully allay recent concerns about the park lacking filler rides! With this being in/near TWODW, I doubt that it’ll be anything too thrilling, but I think the park needs more middle-ground things with a more universal appeal at present, so I don’t think that really matters myself.

My personal hunch is that this will be a dark ride or some form of indoor family coaster, but I could be wrong there.
 
What are your thoughts?
 
The consultation is on 19th September.
 
Also, just as a note for the moderators, I made a separate topic for this because it’s not confirmed that this is anything to do with SW9 despite the rumours, so I thought I’d better be safe rather than sorry. If you’d rather this be in with the SW9 discussion, though, I apologise.

@Matt N it sounds like this indoor attraction will be an expansion of The World Of David Williams. I would expect a Flying Theatre themed to Grandpa’s Great Escape. My other theory is that the Alton Towers Dungeons are being extended. This could be why work is happening with Nemesis Sub-Terra. My rationale is the Drop Towers could be relocated to the expansion. Many Dungeon attractions have a Drop Tower that simulates a hanging. If Nemesis Sub-Terra had its Drop Towers removed,Alton Towers could add this experience.

Ok so the EA has got back to Thorpe and they are withdrawing their third objection:- 
 

 
https://docs.runnymede.gov.uk/PublicAccess_Live/Document/ViewDocument?id=A9AD7DB3E5854B9686F139BE08E3D049
 
Objections 1 and 2 still remain, however. The only way these could be overcome would be to build the coaster elsewhere in the park which obviously won't happen, especially considering much of the park already lies within floodzone 3b. So now we just have to await the council's decision, whenever that may be.

I love being wrong. 

Definitely the right choice for the park, especially as they’ve needed a medium thrill family coaster for some time and this fills the gap nicely. 
 
Not to mention a decent replacement to the obsolete Raft Racers in pretty much every area. 
 
Let’s hope this gets approved.