Logger's Leap

[Coaster]

4 hours ago, Odyessy said:

Unfortunately, Loggers Leap was not as popular as people may think. In 2014 and 2015, LoggersLeap was rated the third best water ride by guests after Tidal Wave and Storm Surge. Storm Surge also had more riders than Loggers Leap in both those years

 

It was still popular in a way, and it's decline in popularity wasn't the cause for its closure. But it was not as popular as people seem to think or make out

 

Why does something have to be "the best" to be kept though?

 

In all honesty I think it just needed needs some refurbishment, as there's no denying it was in a state of neglect in terms of presentation and appearance of the ride.  Aside from the required maintenance, I think that a new tunnel (with some sort of feature inside), some new items of theming and a general cleanup of the ride and surrounding area would have made a huge difference.

[Project LC]

The problem with a refurb is it doesn't bring in new people and so doesn't make any money in the short term. As a result Merlin were never going to spend the money and so it got to a state where it was run down its popularity dropped and now it's closed. 

Merlin is so focused on the short term that I am certain this is just the next ride to suffer this fate in a long list which will form over the next few years.

[Marc]

To be fair painting Nemesis / Oblivion are not going to bring people in but they did it..

 

Ultimately loggers is almost a win/win - if it is refurbished and reopened great, if its demolished we have a great space for a new ride.

[pluk]

6 hours ago, Coaster Jamie said:

Log Flumes are a staple ride and IMO, every theme park should have one. They appeal to everyone (families, thrillseekers etc) and Loggers was consistently popular, not just in the summer months.

 

16 hours ago, Coaster Jamie said:

By this point, the ride would have been sat SBNO for TWO years.

Utterly, utterly disgraceful.

 

Hows Blackpools log flume doing these days?! Maybe they have it in storage in Trauma Towers or the Ark, which have been SBNO for a decade. Disgraceful! 

 

As has been said, if they want to repoen the ride they will fix it up and reopen the ride - there is no question that Merin have the resources to do it, the question is whether they have the will. That they weren't willing to spend the money to prevent it falling into the dilapidated state it did prior to its closure strongly suggests that will is lacking.

[Coaster]

1 hour ago, pluk said:

Hows Blackpools log flume doing these days?! Maybe they have it in storage in Trauma Towers or the Ark, which have been SBNO for a decade. Disgraceful! 

Blackpool's Log Flume ran until September 2006, after which deconstruction work started immediately, ready for Infusion to come in which opened after Easter in 2007.  It was not left sat festering like Loggers Leap and The Flume.

 

(The removal of BPB's Log Flume was IMO a huge loss to the park, as it was by far the best standard log flume in the UK, but at least they announced the closure giving people a final chance to ride it, and it was removed for a reason; not just left to rot).

[Marc]

9 minutes ago, Coaster Jamie said:

(The removal of BPB's Log Flume was IMO a huge loss to the park, as it was by far the best standard log flume in the UK, but at least they announced the closure giving people a final chance to ride it, and it was removed for a reason; not just left to rot).

 

 

 

Like it or not Loggers Leap will have closed for a reason - just because we dont know that reason (we are guests - we have no divine right to know the reasons behind everything) - does not mean there isnt one. 

[SteveJ]

A good reason though? It really was left to rot with no refurbishment, and no replacement drawn up in time when they all knew it was coming. True the park can disclose whatever they want.

 

If guests, including theme park enthusiasts (I'd actually argue there are more families and guests who love Loggers more than enthusiasts, especially as its been around so long), don't complain about its unexplained closure, then its a business case that the park can carry on shutting rides without consequence.

 

These parks work wholly on consumer choice and profit-led business now. If guests do complain, score low on the surveys (a ridiculous method of feeback but its what Merlin attention to) and dont return in as big numbers because of all the rides they enjoy being unjustifiably closed, then the park have reason to improve.

 

However, if guests are told not to complain, to keep supporting the park in their bad decisions, then they have no business case to ever change their behaviour, and will only carry on shutting good attractions, not maintaining them, not considering the long run, etc.. I'm sure many at the park want Loggers open as much as guests do but higher up company management lets consider here.

 

If the company was less blindly market driven and focussed on maximising guest experience from the top down, then they'd be able to have pre empted Loggers closure and never let it get in such a condition. This is happening seriously across all Merlin-bought UK parks now. Years of decline and tarting up in the short term.

[Marc]

I don't disagree - the post I'm making is I've no doubt the park do have plans for loggers redevelopment- be that reopening the ride or a new attraction - just because we don't know these plans don't mean they are not on-going behind the scenes.

 

As I said I loved loggers - but the park is hardly short of water rides - and for some reason guests seem to absolutely love Storm Surge so as much as I miss it - i don't think it's closure has an adverse effect on visits.

[Coaster]

29 minutes ago, Marc said:

Like it or not Loggers Leap will have closed for a reason - just because we dont know that reason (we are guests - we have no divine right to know the reasons behind everything) - does not mean there isnt one. 

I know there will be a reason for Loggers Leap being closed - of course there will.

My point (in line with Pluk's comparison with Blackpool's Log Flume) is that Blackpool's Log Flume was nearing the end of its life, and they knew it.  BPB organised a replacement for it and deconstruction work started immediately after the ride's (announced!) closure, ready for Infusion to open the following year.  The Log Flume was not at any point throughout this process sat idle, rotting away behind a fence.  Deconstruction started the day after the ride closed.

 

Then you look at Loggers Leap, which in some ways is a similar situation; the ride has got to a state where it is unable to run, so the choice is essentially refurbishment or replacement.  Oh, but wait.  Neither has happened.  The ride has been left sat behind a fence, rotting away, for an entire park season, and (soon to be) two closed seasons.  If BPB (who were at the time in heavy debt) can organise a replacement, remove the Log Flume and get the replacement built and open within a short space of time, why is the so-called "second biggest theme park operator in the world, second only to Disney" leaving rides rotting?

[Marc]

11 minutes ago, Coaster Jamie said:

I know there will be a reason for Loggers Leap being closed - of course there will.

My point (in line with Pluk's comparison with Blackpool's Log Flume) is that Blackpool's Log Flume was nearing the end of its life, and they knew it.  BPB organised a replacement for it and deconstruction work started immediately after the ride's (announced!) closure, ready for Infusion to open the following year.  The Log Flume was not at any point throughout this process sat idle, rotting away behind a fence.  Deconstruction started the day after the ride closed.

 

Then you look at Loggers Leap, which in some ways is a similar situation; the ride has got to a state where it is unable to run, so the choice is essentially refurbishment or replacement.  Oh, but wait.  Neither has happened.  The ride has been left sat behind a fence, rotting away, for an entire park season, and (soon to be) two closed seasons.  If BPB (who were at the time in heavy debt) can organise a replacement, remove the Log Flume and get the replacement built and open within a short space of time, why is the so-called "second biggest theme park operator in the world, second only to Disney" leaving rides rotting?

 

I'm fairly certain BPB have had a number of rides SBNO before - ok maybe not their log flume.

 

Thorpe opened DBGT (regardless if you like it or not) so it's not quite as if they've removed a ride , reducing the offering without continuing to invest.

[Coaster]

10 minutes ago, Marc said:

I'm fairly certain BPB have had a number of rides SBNO before - ok maybe not their log flume.

They have.  The park was in very heavy debt for quite a few years, hence why a lot of rides were SBNO.  At the time I was furious, so I'm not making any defence for it, but I will say that the circumstances were extremely different to the Merlin parks; Blackpool's rides were SBNO so the park could actually survive (and individual reasons but that was the main one), whereas Merlin are a big company making a huge profit year-on-year.

10 minutes ago, Marc said:

Thorpe opened DBGT (regardless if you like it or not) so it's not quite as if they've removed a ride , reducing the offering without continuing to invest.

That thing was delayed twice (or was it three times), hardy open even when it was supposed to be and major elements not functioning!  I'd take having Loggers Leap open over DBGT any day!

[Marc]

12 minutes ago, Coaster Jamie said:

They have.  The park was in very heavy debt for quite a few years, hence why a lot of rides were SBNO.  At the time I was furious, so I'm not making any defence for it, but I will say that the circumstances were extremely different to the Merlin parks; Blackpool's rides were SBNO so the park could actually survive (and individual reasons but that was the main one), whereas Merlin are a big company making a huge profit year-on-year.

That thing was delayed twice (or was it three times), hardy open even when it was supposed to be and major elements not functioning!  I'd take having Loggers Leap open over DBGT any day!

 

Thats not my point though - they still opened up something - and I'd be fairly confident that more people will have rode DBGT despite its issues than would have rode Loggers Leap.

[Ian-S]

Redevelopment and renovations have two completely different meanings.

 

What is it they are saying now? Redevelopment? Then say your goodbyes now, redevelopment implies being torn down and something being put in its place.

[Josh3103]

4 minutes ago, Ian-S said:

Redevelopment and renovations have two completely different meanings.

 

What is it they are saying now? Redevelopment? Then say your goodbyes now, redevelopment implies being torn down and something being put in its place.

Renovation is the process of improving a broken, damaged, or outdated structure. 

 

Redevelopment is any new construction on a site that has pre-existing uses.

 

[Josh3103]

So what Thorpe park are saying is that something new is being constructed in that area

[Ian-S]

I prefer the dictionary not wiki but they essentially say the same:

 

redevelop

riːdɪˈvɛləp/

verb

develop (something) again or differently.

"the technology was redeveloped during the crusades"

construct new buildings in (an urban area), typically after demolishing the existing buildings.

 

Although I sometimes wonder whether the PR department realise their every word is picked apart for clues and hidden meaning like a Westworld episode is.

 

Shame, I had a soft spot for loggers, was my first flume ever and I got to share that with a lovely childhood friend who sadly never lived to see her 17th birthday.

[Mark9]

1 hour ago, Coaster Jamie said:

I know there will be a reason for Loggers Leap being closed - of course there will.

My point (in line with Pluk's comparison with Blackpool's Log Flume) is that Blackpool's Log Flume was nearing the end of its life, and they knew it.  BPB organised a replacement for it and deconstruction work started immediately after the ride's (announced!) closure, ready for Infusion to open the following year.  The Log Flume was not at any point throughout this process sat idle, rotting away behind a fence.  Deconstruction started the day after the ride closed.

 

Then you look at Loggers Leap, which in some ways is a similar situation; the ride has got to a state where it is unable to run, so the choice is essentially refurbishment or replacement.  Oh, but wait.  Neither has happened.  The ride has been left sat behind a fence, rotting away, for an entire park season, and (soon to be) two closed seasons.  If BPB (who were at the time in heavy debt) can organise a replacement, remove the Log Flume and get the replacement built and open within a short space of time, why is the so-called "second biggest theme park operator in the world, second only to Disney" leaving rides rotting?

 

Because Disney also leave things they don't care about to rot. We don't know that there isn't a replacement being organised for Loggers. We don't know anything beyond a few choice words from Thorpe.

[RobF]

A New intamin flume to replace loggers would count as redevelopment????

[Coaster]

2 hours ago, Mark9 said:

 

Because Disney also leave things they don't care about to rot. We don't know that there isn't a replacement being organised for Loggers. We don't know anything beyond a few choice words from Thorpe.

I'm not suggesting that there isn't a replacement organised, I'm saying that it shouldn't take an entire year (possibly even two) before any work towards a replacement taking place.

 

2 hours ago, Josh3103 said:

So what Thorpe park are saying is that something new is being constructed in that area

Not necessarily, the official line on the website states "rennovation."

[Mark9]

4 minutes ago, Coaster Jamie said:

I'm not suggesting that there isn't a replacement organised, I'm saying that it shouldn't take an entire year (possibly even two) before any work towards a replacement taking place.

 

It's this reason you should definitely get an Annual Pass for 2017. You provoke the best discussions. 

[Odyessy]

8 hours ago, Coaster Jamie said:

Why does something have to be "the best" to be kept though?

 

I wasn't saying that. Practically everyone here has basically made Loggers Leap out to be the most popular water ride, when it simply wasn't. Just something to keep in mind

 

As I say, it did not open in 2016 because it wasn't the best. I'm just saying it wasn't the best in 2014 and 2015

[Adam P]

Log Flumes are always popular rain or shine with Loggers being no exception.

 

Its obvious following safety work done to Chessington's this is a key factor in both Loggers and The Flume, with the Flume not being cost effective, Dragon Falls being a necessity and Loggers sitting somewhere in the middle which is probably still unknown. A sponsor is most likely required.

 

We did all say the same about Runaway Train/Scorpion Express which also sat rotting for the whole season and still wasn't complete when opening late the following season. However unlikely, sometimes I like to live in hope.

[Marc]

55 minutes ago, Coaster Jamie said:

I'm not suggesting that there isn't a replacement organised, I'm saying that it shouldn't take an entire year (possibly even two) before any work towards a replacement taking place.

 

The theme park industry simply does not work like that.

 

Work might not start for 1 year or 5 years, it's not wrong it's just how it works, work will start on either renovating the ride or dismantling the ride when they are ready - we just need to sit tight and look forward to what's in store

[Coaster]

35 minutes ago, Marc said:

 

The theme park industry simply does not work like that.

 

Work might not start for 1 year or 5 years, it's not wrong it's just how it works, work will start on either renovating the ride or dismantling the ride when they are ready - we just need to sit tight and look forward to what's in store

Just for clarity, are you saying that you would consider it okay for Loggers to sit SBNO for five years?

 

I think we'll have to agree to disagree if that's the case.

[SteveJ]

1 hour ago, Adam P said:

We did all say the same about Runaway Train/Scorpion Express which also sat rotting for the whole season and still wasn't complete when opening late the following season. However unlikely, sometimes I like to live in hope.

 

The Scorpion Express retheme was pushed through extremely late, and extremely rushed, largely because guests DID react badly to it being closed without explanation and sitting there not doing anything. It was also another example of the company knowing full well it needed work done but it was being left until the latest moment. The rethemed attraction would have been utterly awful, and was extremely under budget, had it not been for some very passionate people on the project from what I gather.

 

From experience, these closures are never because they've got something planned. They're all left last minute and sounds like many of you would be very disappointed to learn how Merlin parks often organise these things, its not fair on the people who end up having to deal with it either. The company doesn't even have a refurbishment/maintenance budget system, everything significant spent on existing attractions usually comes through as a scheduled Merlin Magic Making refurbishment which has to be justified by marketing and new branding just to keep the ride from falling apart.

 

The only exception that springs to mind as an exception to this (although it was still left to decline until it literally had to be decommissioned mid season) was Tomb Blaster - except its maintenance last winter ended up being awful, so that also doesn't fill with hope.

 

1 hour ago, Odyessy said:

 

I wasn't saying that. Practically everyone here has basically made Loggers Leap out to be the most popular water ride, when it simply wasn't. Just something to keep in mind

 

As I say, it did not open in 2016 because it wasn't the best. I'm just saying it wasn't the best in 2014 and 2015

This is very short sighted and based on singular opinion. And nothing to do with why it didnt open in 2016. Also the ride could possibly be considered more popular than most the major attractions on park today when you take into account how long its been there, the fame it had in the 90s (Diana etc, and a time when it was the biggest ride for years), it's also still an excellent attraction, with large appeal and long queues.

 

1 hour ago, Marc said:

The theme park industry simply does not work like that.

Work might not start for 1 year or 5 years, it's not wrong it's just how it works, work will start on either renovating the ride or dismantling the ride when they are ready - we just need to sit tight and look forward to what's in store

 

I disagree with this blanket rule to be honest.  That's certainly how Merlin work and up to their management, but not "how the industry works" by necessity. Considering how long theyve had to consider this (its well known the ride was in a poor state), I do find it unprofessional. And 5 years for a company as large as Merlin to not do anything is pretty poor, and I see absolutely no justification for why it should ever take so long.

No point being optimistic and "sitting tight" when this is example number 10 of poor practice which wouldnt happen under a company that cared. Much better to go be interest in something else than to be pointless loyal to a company that doesn't care at the top. The ride didn't go from working order to suddenly broken for 5 years - that isnt how rides work. They could get it properly refurbished and reopen the ride next year if they actually saw the necessity to. But the company wont get any direct returns from that will they? It is a mess.

1 hour ago, Marc said: