Project WC16 - New for 2016

[Project LC]

I would like to think that we are not getting a shooter. Yes they can be good but I want to see something different. If we are given a shooter then that will still be good but I will still feel disappointed. 

[SteveJ]

Having looked properly at the plans I'm very critical of this dark ride project. Britain grew an astonishing dark ride/themed attraction industry all by itself in the 80s/early 90s, it's a shame the current generation hasn't retained the innovation, genius and will to entertain as those before.

I think it is sad how they are making more mistakes than those learnt by Tussauds back in 1987 when the first major dark ride opened in Britain. Except, unlike 5th Dimension, the few thematic details shown on the plans suggest this project has little originality or flare. Merlin - the public don't find grotty buildings entertaining! They don't!

The area of the park in which the show building is being created needs a total redevelopment in terms of architecture and landscaping. It's ugly, closed off and, together with the badly located X building, creates an illogical path around to the back of the park. Nemesis Inferno's drop are is the only open space with a good atmosphere because Phantom Fantasia/Magic Mill happened to burn down, otherwise that whole section of the park would still feel dated and cramped. Yet, instead of sorting this area out by reworking the entire flow of people through the surroundings, the new dark ride will be restricted to the current arena footprint with no change to surroundings. The cheapest option they could have taken.

Years ago the designers would be clever and use forced perspective and facade systems to melt a huge show building into the surroundings. There is no way this building's ugly metal walls can be hidden. This is not necessarily a detrimental thing but the awkward shape causes a disruption to the flow of people; if it's going to be an obstacle it ought to look good.

I can't help but giggle at the 'covered queue line' shoved round the back and disguised by some bushes. Merlin have learnt nothing from the Smiler just 2 years back, let alone the flaws of the 5th Dimension 30 years ago, when it comes to making guests uncomfortable and with the wrong expectations for the ride. The queue is a crucial point of a dark ride, especially the first major one in a decade, in selling the experience to visitors. I won't be surprised if people come off this ride with completely the wrong impression of what a dark ride is, disappointed, even if the ride inside is decent. Because it looks to be set up catastrophically.

I have spent ages hands-on researching dark rides in Britain, have got to know the original designers of very influential projects and hopefully got into the mindset of what makes a dark ride concept really effective. It's very timely that Merlin Studios should be creating a dark ride project and I've heard it's been coming for a while, although very little existing industry expertise is being used. This should be a great turning point for UK theme parks, but unfortunately I believe this will be no fun for either the designers or the riders.

Please prove me wrong.

[Coaster]

I won't be judging the ride until I have ridden it.  However, I will be very disappointed if it is a laser shooter or relies on screens.  Animatronics and effects please!

[Altitude]

^^ Pretty sure "covered queue" is just the part with a themed roof over it? I don't see what's so laughable.

[SteveJ]

^^ Pretty sure "covered queue" is just the part with a themed roof over it?

And that sounds better to you?

Shock: I will be judging this ride right now a whole two years before it opens, because I'm familiar with the industry, am studying architecture design and I'm stubborn like that.

[Kerfuffle]

Animatronics and effects please!

If we do get animatronics, then they'll probably be VERY minimal. *glares at Scorpion Express scorpion*

[Coaster]

And that sounds better to you?

Shock: I will be judging this ride right now a whole two years before it opens, because I know the industry well enough and I'm stubborn like that.

What exactly are you looking for in a queueline then?  I agree that Merlin's are dull but just wondering what you want them to be like?

Also, nobody can fairly judge a ride without going on it, you can only make an educated guess at what it will be like.

 

I still don't get why you're so miserable over a roof. It does rain a lot in England you know.

I actually think that Thorpe (and Merlin in general) needs more covered queuelines!  Nearly all of them are outside without any sort of cover and it's horrible when it rains.

[Altitude]

And that sounds better to you?

Shock: I will be judging this ride right now a whole two years before it opens, because I know the industry well enough and I'm stubborn like that.

 

I still don't get why you're so miserable over a roof. It does rain a lot in England you know.

[Coaster]

They need TVs that play something entertaining not a 5 minute loop of the same news report. Also if the queueline is made wider it means your not all compact and generally a nicer experience. The smiler queueline is horrible as its all compact and you have no idea how long you have left. The smiler is the worst queue line of them all where as oblivion is nice and spaced out with changing tvs and a good atmosphere. Personally I would prefer queueline tvs playing music and games however that's more for amusement parks. 

If they are going to do queueline TV's then they need them in areas of the queue only - not the whole queueline like The Swarm, as to be honest that just annoys me.

[Olistjj]

They need TVs that play something entertaining not a 5 minute loop of the same news report. Also if the queueline is made wider it means your not all compact and generally a nicer experience. The smiler queueline is horrible as its all compact and you have no idea how long you have left. The smiler is the worst queue line of them all where as oblivion is nice and spaced out with changing tvs and a good atmosphere. Personally I would prefer queueline tvs playing music and games however that's more for amusement parks.

Don't forget when it rains... The Smiler queue turns into a swimming pool! Hate it -.-

[Project LC]

That is a bonus for this queueline, it has a roof so the swimming pool effect should be reduced. 

[SteveJ]

Queuelines in Britain are a totally overlooked but crucial point in the ride experience. They are actually quite hard to get right and require a lot of technical and imaginative thinking. That sounds utterly ridiculous - what could be more boring than a queue, right? But it's true and makes a huge impact on the experience, sometimes without the riders even knowing.

When theme parks first came to Britain the queuelines were directly inspired by the detailed film sets that the designers had worked on previously. Without going into depth about the world of set design and stuff, this meant there were very elaborate and progressive queues for even the simplest of rides. Runaway Train's original queue is the strangest and best example, totally unnecessary in hindsight and very impractical to maintain, but cleverly designed. Almost every queue for a Tussauds ride constructed in the 90s was designed to show off the ride or surrounding areas in some way. Views and tricks of perspective don't happen by accident, every pathway and viewpoint is engineered on purpose.

But years later, now that the entire industry in Britain is now much bigger and more expensive, Merlin do silly billy things like not even surface a queueline until the day of opening (Thirteen) or create impossible-to-correct situations like The Smiler's shockingly overlooked labyrinth of hell.

Anyway, I could go on forever. Any experienced architect/planner would find a better way of using the SPACE around the show building and queue area much better, but clearly compromises have already been taken to spend as little money redeveloping this space as possible. Shortcuts, and the ride hasn't even started construction yet!
 

I still don't get why you're so miserable over a roof. It does rain a lot in England you know.

I think you've completely misinterpreted my sentence? I'm not even talking about the roof.

 

I'm very sorry to sound cynical and dump this negativity on what should be an exciting project. Perhaps I shouldn't have posted all that, as actually I want this story to be a success. However as I say it's my enthusiasm for dark rides, experience working with rides and the dark ride industry in Britain that leads me to believe this won't be a positive project.

[Altitude]

^ We know how queues work, and we know they can be crucial experiences.

 

But the space this ride is taking up is tiny, so it makes sense for them to squeeze in as much queue as possible to accommodate the inevitable large line of people. I know that because you're obviously a cut above the rest, you'll never be satisfied with any dark ride, but they do have a budget to consider, and I'd imagine the GP (which includes all of us here on TPM) would prefer a better ride experience than a themed queue and a mediocre ride at the end of it.

 

I know that's not the most creative way of looking at it, but it's kinda true. Besides the ride hasn't even opened yet and we're arguing about a queue line? None of us know what's inside that building so let's not say the project is doomed just yet?

[Coaster]

Don't forget when it rains... The Smiler the whole of Thorpe Park turns into a swimming pool! Hate it -.-

The drainage at Thorpe is awful!

 

^ We know how queues work, and we know they can be crucial experiences.

 

But the space this ride is taking up is tiny, so it makes sense for them to squeeze in as much queue as possible to accommodate the inevitable large line of people. I know that because you're obviously a cut above the rest, you'll never be satisfied with any dark ride, but they do have a budget to consider, and I'd imagine the GP (which includes all of us here on TPM) would prefer a better ride experience than a themed queue and a mediocre ride at the end of it.

 

I know that's not the most creative way of looking at it, but it's kinda true.

Made longer by Fastrack overselling and reduced throughputs as per I expect!

[Project LC]

The problem is that it seems, so far, to have the same issues the smiler had and its mega cattle pen labyrinth. If merlin had any sense it would have tried to avoid the same mistake. 

You cant compare Thorpe's drainage to the smiler. The smiler has a 3 inch swimming pool, even 3 days after the last rain shower. 

[SteveJ]

^ We know how queues work, and we know they can be crucial experiences.

 

But the space this ride is taking up is tiny, so it makes sense for them to squeeze in as much queue as possible to accommodate the inevitable large line of people. I know that because you're obviously a cut above the rest, you'll never be satisfied with any dark ride, but they do have a budget to consider, and I'd imagine the GP (which includes all of us here on TPM) would prefer a better ride experience than a themed queue and a mediocre ride at the end of it.

 

I know that's not the most creative way of looking at it, but it's kinda true.

 

Completely untrue, I am satisfied with even the most dumb and ridiculous dark rides. Anything that has even an ounce of character or personality behind it I find so enjoyable. You've taken the 'him and me' approach with the points I've made, shame because I've already written I hate to dampen people's spirits about a new project and I'm only more 'well informed' because I've dedicated so much time to researching and being a part of themed entertainment because it's my passion. Not because I'm arrogant, because I care about the enjoyment of guests.

 

I could go on about all the other reasons why I'm critical of this project. I'd have thought the terrible block of queue is the most obvious flaw shown on the plans alone, but to save splattering the forum with depressing negativity and arguing, I'm certainly not going to.

 

Anyway, like I say, in two years please prove me wrong Thorpe Park.

[Altitude]

^ As do I, and tonnes of other people here.

 

What I'm saying is you've judged an entire ride experience by a queue line and the outside of a building. Even with 30 years of research, no body out of Merlin would know what the ride is. That's my point.

[pluk]

... and makes a huge impact on the experience, sometimes without the riders even knowing.

 

Not necessarily for queue lines but everything, this the key to all theme park happiness I think. Ask people what they want and you'll end up with mediocrity everywhere and unmanageable fastrack, do things they don't even notice and show them a good time in a way they can't even explain themselves instead brings greatness.

 

Although I think having too stronger opinion in either direction is not particularly sensible when so little is currently known, I've got to agree with EB at the moment. That building really isn't that big when plant, queue, pre show, shop and bag room are all taken in to account, it is clearly going to dowdy and drab theme wise and it will be a stark obvious box containing a ride with a cattle pen to queue in. When you are starting from scratch with a bare bit of land it really does not have to be that way.

 

Then again, there might be plenty we are missing from the plans and it will be spectacular. Only about 16 months until we find out...

[Altitude]

Can I just add I never said this ride will be fantastic, as again, we know nothing and the space is small. 

But I think to say this ride " won't be fun for designers or riders" is a bit pretentious considering we don't know what the ride is. 

 

Besides, the designers at Merlin are lucky to have a job which allows them to me imaginative. I bet they creamed their pants when they could design a dark ride, whether it's outstanding or not.

[SteveJ]

I know where you're coming from but you started off singling out the fact that the queue had a roof and now you're saying you've been talking about the bigger picture all along. It's easy to say "don't judge until the finished product" (Merlin's products are famously never finished anyway) but I'm judging it on purpose so that hopefully something will change.

 

But I think to say this ride " won't be fun for designers or riders" is a bit pretentious considering we don't know what the ride is.

 

Yes that is a bit pretentious sounding, which I'm sorry about. But perhaps I do have reason to say that.

 

People spend so much time and energy on these projects and the way the industry works these days is often very restrictive. I hope this time it is a success story for everyone involved, unlike a lot of recent projects, because it will show in the finished ride.

[Altitude]

You started off singling out the fact that the queue had a roof and now you're saying you've been talking about the bigger picture all along. It's easy to say "don't judge until the finished product" (Merlin's products are famously never finished anyway) but I'm judging it on purpose so that hopefully something will change.

 

What? How? I was picking up on the fact the roof doesn't represent an entire ride or queueing experience... 

[SteveJ]

 

I can't help but giggle at the 'covered queue line' shoved round the back and disguised by some bushes. Merlin have learnt nothing from the Smiler just 2 years back, let alone the flaws of the 5th Dimension 30 years ago, when it comes to making guests uncomfortable and with the wrong expectations for the ride. The queue is a crucial point of a dark ride, especially the first major one in a decade, in selling the experience to visitors. I won't be surprised if people come off this ride with completely the wrong impression of what a dark ride is, disappointed, even if the ride inside is decent. Because it looks to be set up catastrophically.

Where do I mention a roof in the first place, let alone suggest you can judge the whole experience from the queue alone? I get as far as quoting "covered queue line" from the planning docs and explain my reasoning for the queue being an awful design. I'm judging this on a bigger picture than just the plans, whether I'm right or wrong.

 

The point I'm making is all about the use of space. You can make use of the tiniest amount of space and do a better job, with the right outlook and tools. They could have redeveloped the entire surrounding area, much like was originally rumoured in fact, but have chosen to stay stuck with the awkward Arena footprint simply as the cheapest option.

 

Let's try something more positive...

 

Hey, it might be good inside if they get the right expertise involved and are willing to pay LOTS of money. You can even create surprisingly fun theatrics just with a good old fashioned dark room and some flashing lights. Well you know what I mean. Has potential.

[Altitude]

^ The covered queue is where the roof is. 

 

You quoted a section of your post which then goes on to say you think this ride will be awful, partly because of the queue (which is pretty much the only part of the experience we know about). You laugh at the "covered queue line", which is probably more practical rather than cosmetic. Yes I completely, 100% agree the queue line looks bland, and it does affect the ride experience, but just because the queue is bland doesn't mean you can correctly judge the entire ride! 

 

But now it seems you've taken back some of your initial pessimism, which is nice.

[Matt 236]

Hopefully the ride's queue will be done properly as Merlin aren't very good at doing interesting immersive queue lines. Look at Swarm, Saw, Smiler, Etc. Interesting rides (though some may argue not) however there queue line settings aren't the best and don't really build up to the ride experiences as great as they could do much more but turn in to mere cattle pens near the station area, especially with Smilers flood problem and Swarms hidden cattlepen.

Many Tussaud built rides have much better immersive interesting queue experiences which either involve major theming, effects or just by simply building up the ride by seeing it from different views e.g Nemesis, Oblivion, Duel, Ramesis, Colossus and even Inferno.

Would be nice to see an immersive queue for this ride, but it's Merlin. Scorpion express is one of the few Merlin queue layouts done right.

[Guest]

many Tussaud built rides have much better immersive interesting queue experiences which either involve major theming, effects or just by simply building up the ride by seeing it from different views e.g Nemesis, Oblivion, Duel, Ramesis, Colossus and even Inferno.

You forgot X