Disabled Queuing Rules

[JoshC.]

Whilst no actual leaflet with all this year's info has been produced, it seems new rulings are on the website:http://www.thorpepark.com/plan-your-visit/disabled-guide.aspxNear the bottom, where it's got 'Helpers / Companions', we've got this:"Only one helper per disabled guest can use the access pass on any of our THORPE PARK rides and attractions."The entire section seems to be written as if there can only be 1 helper on a ride as well. Under Ride Access higher up, it says something about for safety reasons about the number of disabled guests, blah blah blah, you may have to divide into smaller groups - which is impossible if there's only 2 people, which could mean that there's a mistake made somewhere. Personally though, if they are limiting it to one helper per disabled guest, I think it's pretty stupid!So yeah, d'you think it is being limited to 1 person per disabled guest, or not?

[Lewis.]

Ride staff have helped me out of Loggers and Rumba Rapids before, as I was with one person and needed the extra support...

[Thorpe~Rocks]

I think it's a brilliant change. I remember queing last year and seeing a group of about 12 teenage boys with the disabled wristbands. I'm glad for the change but I agree that they should be allowed up to 2/3 carers, but I'm sure thorpe park will clarify this.

[Fred]

My god this is fun.I wrote loads but deleted it because this topic is stupid.1) Ride staff have entire discretion. It's not up to Guest Services if people need more or not, and rides staff discretion always overrides it, as long as its got reason - safety of guest, practicality, etc.2) Rides staff helping guests physically means they're liable in the eyes of law. That's what carers are for. Hence why some parks completely ban it. It makes sense, don't want lawsuits.3) Disability act is changing. Most policies are changing. Towers and lego, for example, is literally wheelchairs or mental health (autism or aspergers) only. Anyone else, will have to queue. This has been widely abused for a long time.

[JoshC.]

Its one carer per guest, it clearly states that on the website.Ride staff are there to assist guests getting off rides if need be, I dotn see why any more are needed frankly.

If we want to go into what the site clearly states...

The helper must be able to assist the disabled guest with loading and offloading, including transfer from wheelchairs. Our hosts will give full instructions, but for everyone's safety we will leave all lifting to the helper, this may involve the lifting and transfer of the disabled guest from the ride carriage into an evacuation chair at high level.

Ride staff are therefore not there to assist disabled guests getting off rides.Personally, I think the "I dotn see why any more are needed frankly." is slightly cold, but that's my view.

[Mer]

My god this is fun.I wrote loads but deleted it because this topic is stupid.1) Ride staff have entire discretion. It's not up to Guest Services if people need more or not, and rides staff discretion always overrides it, as long as its got reason - safety of guest, practicality, etc.2) Rides staff helping guests physically means they're liable in the eyes of law. That's what carers are for. Hence why some parks completely ban it. It makes sense, don't want lawsuits.3) Disability act is changing. Most policies are changing. Towers and lego, for example, is literally wheelchairs or mental health (autism or aspergers) only. Anyone else, will have to queue. This has been widely abused for a long time.

All sounds fine to me :unsure:Glad Merlin aren't just making it physical disabilities (which apparently Thorpe did last year?). I wonder if they'll make it so as well as proof of disability, you also need a note from a GP etc, to actually confirm how the disability prevents them queueing/understanding the concept. Would be good as it stops people abusing the system and it's also something I think Thorpe tried last year.

[JoshC.]

All sounds fine to me :unsure:Glad Merlin aren't just making it physical disabilities (which apparently Thorpe did last year?). I wonder if they'll make it so as well as proof of disability, you also need a note from a GP etc, to actually confirm how the disability prevents them queueing/understanding the concept. Would be good as it stops people abusing the system and it's also something I think Thorpe tried last year.

A couple of seasons ago, I think 08 or 09, my nan was refused a yellow band because she didn't have a GP note. So that's been around a while. I think it was only physical disabilities at Thorpe last year too! But I think that was more to stop people with ADHD, or something similar, using the yellow band - if it was a severe mental disability, they allowed it.

[Kevin]

Implying the hosts will not buckle at people complaining at them.ARGUMENT DESTROYED

[Justandy22]

We visited Thorpe park today and queued for nearly an hour to get a wrist band for our daughter. We were then told that only 1of us could ride and the other had to queue uP which doesn't work in my eyes. When questioned the lady said this was to stop the system being abused. She was not interested in looking at the doctors letter explaining our daughters health issues and just gave us the 2 bands. Our daughter has a rare chromosome deletion which affects here in a number of ways. This includes.... Muscle depletion which seriously affects her balance and how long she can stand, autism, no danger awarenes and others. She cannot understand why Mummy and Daddy can't go on rides with her together under this new system. Yet we witnessed people abusing this with one lady saying her son was disabled so they could go with friends on the rides and other people lying.

[Lewis.]

It makes me angry when people lie so that they get out of queueing, when people like me and your daughter genuinely can't queue. Also makes me angry that I can no loner enjoy the rides with more than one of my friends.

[Mer]

I'm sorry to hear about that :DJust pasting what I said on the Thorpe Park Official Facebbok page earlier:There are other ways to prevent the system being abused, such as being stricter on what counts as a disability that prevents the person from queueing, or prevents them understanding the concept. Cutting the number of people they can take with them will just p*** them off, makes the park look stupid and they will not go back, so the park loses out in the end. It used to be limited to 3 cares max which worked fine (and I know, I worked there for 2 years!)It's comments like yours Justandy22 which prove how much of a fail it is and how much they are letting their customers down. They may be trying to cut the main queue down but this is not the way to do it, it's like they are penalising disabled groups!Bad move Thorpe

[Benin]

They need to sort out a kind of 'exception' rule for 'extreme' cases...And if you cannot prove you fit the bill, you get one carer max... If you can, 2 maybe 3...Least you had a doctor's note, I heavily approve of that, shame they didn't want to know...

[Justandy22]

Thanks all for understanding the frustration this causes. Another thing that annoyed us was we went on storm surge and joined the exit pass queue. The main queue was 60minuter when we joined, we then wIted nearly 30 minutes in the queue and by the time we got our card signed, the main queue was 75 mins long. So we got to the ride at initially at 11.45 and then couldnt go on another bug ride until 13.30.Something needs to change there

[DanMn]

Alot of people seem to be missing the point that disabled guests only being allowed one helper doesn't mean they cant go on with their group. The rest of their group can queue as normal and the person who was unable to queue and one friend can meet them at the loading point. Those that are able to queue will queue and only those that are actually unable to queue will use the exit, just how it should be.

[Lewis.]

Alot of people seem to be missing the point that disabled guests only being allowed one helper doesn't mean they cant go on with their group. The rest of their group can queue as normal and the person who was unable to queue and one friend can meet them at the loading point. Those that are able to queue will queue and only those that are actually unable to queue will use the exit, just how it should be.

I wouldn't mind doing this, but under the current rules it wouldn't be possible as ride ops would still be adding the queue time to the card.

[Justandy22]

I think you are missing the point here tbhScenario... Non disabled person queues for 60 minutes to get on ride and at ride entrance meets disabled and carer. The disabled and carer then have the card stamped an additional 60 minutes even thOugh they have waited for non disabled person to queue. This means the non disabled person can go on another ride that may have a shorter queue, yet the disabled has to wait 60 mins. To me that isnt fairWe waited at storm surge in the exit queue for 30 mins, main queue at start of our queuing was 60 mins but by time we got on ride was 75 minutes. This means from joining ride to the time to get on next big ride was 1hr 45mins. Most other bug rides had shorter queues.

[NickD]

Seems pretty pointless going with a group of friends when I can only get on the rides with one of them. It's bollocks, and not the good kind.

The system is there to benefit yourself and as a genuinly disable guest, I am sure you appreciate that the changes are being made in order to benefit yourself. The system was being abused, which meant that you had to wait longer to wait and get on rides behind guests who took multiple carers when not needed. Why should you have to bring more than one carer with you on the rides? Non-Ambient guests, in my opinion will be allowed two carers. This is in order for assistance if the ride would need to be evacuated in an emergency.

I'd hate to be a Thorpe Park/Chessington ride host this year. One helper on rides, fastrack on baby rides.*puts bread in oven.Now thats a career

Happy Days.

And what if the guest needs more than just one person?

The only situation that I could imagine this happening is if the guest is Non-Ambient. People of which are, will be more limited to the rides of which they can go on. In my opinion rides such as storm surge, loggers leap, rumba rapids.. are not suitable for those in wheelchairs. This is because the rides are constantly moving through the station and it is not possible to stop them without any inconvinience.As many of you know, I've worked in Chessingtons Guest Services department and implemented very similar changes to the ones of which Thorpe Park have adopted this year. It is purely for the benefit of genuinly disabled guests and I am sure that you should see the long term benefits of this system.

[NickD]

Its one carer per guest, it clearly states that on the website.Ride staff are there to assist guests getting off rides if need be, I dotn see why any more are needed frankly.

Unfortunately staff are or at least where unable to assist certain disabled guests in getting off the rides. This being for obvious reasons that I won't go into.

I was gonna make this point earlier, but the fact is that then you'll get the people who believe they are disabled (and they might well be in some cases), who will kick off because they're no longer entitled to it...It's such a problem really because the way in which modern day life is designed to accomadate the disabled side of life they cannot really just go "Right, you only have asthma, join the queue as normal, no exit pass for you" now can they?

Rules can be tightened up. At Chessington it was decided that those who are deaf or asthmatic and lots of other disabilities would still have to queue. It was, as imaginable, very difficult to explain to guests though and luckily I only had a few major confrontations. Chessington asked that all guests bring proof of disability with them .. this was asked to be a letter from the doctor explaining their disability and a reason why they are unable to queue. A letter of 'Disability Living Allowance' was simply rejected as we needed to know whether their disability would stop them from being able to queue with the general public. I am unsure as to whether this is still the case. I would hope so, as the benefits where visable to those who genuinly needed the system. Alot of people who asked questions understood that the system was being abused and appreciated why we where asking for proof. The only people who complained where those who would no longer make use of the system.

Ride staff CANNOT touch disabled guests...A friend of mine got in trouble at Towers for doing it cos staff are not insured for it quite simply...

As far as I knew, this is correct.

[Justandy22]

I'm still unsure how this system benefit a disabled child with both parents joining then though. If the able bodied person had to queue for 60 minutes and then the disabled and carer had to time it correct to join them at the front of the queue. The able bodied person then could join a ride with a queue of 30 minutes yet the disabled and carer had to wait 60 mins to go onSurely you can see that this doesn't work??

[Benin]

No wonder it's been going to pot, the staff have been focusing on Non-Ambient guests instead of the Non-Ambulant ones... :DOn a serious note though, it should be considered on the basis of the disability, not how loudly the guest moans because of it being 'unfair'... Which seems to have been a problem at the past AP day...Which makes me wonder if it's obvious enough on the actual park website... But then again as most people moaning on the AP site are moaning about stuff that has been put on there before for a while, then it's a bit of an over-expectation to think that the majority would do research further than "Oh look we can skip queues, WIN!"Which makes it unfair on those who follow the rules... It's all about balance and ensuring that those who actually do require the help (like Justandy's kid) and others with autism and other disabilitys that prevent them from queueing SHOULD be the primary target of the day...But again, doctor's letters can easily be weird... I had one that got me out of PE for a week because of a dodgy Appendix (no surgery) for crying out loud... Some doctor's may be more easy to give out "cannot queue" letters than others, which is a whole other ballpark...

[NickD]

I'm still unsure how this system benefit a disabled child with both parents joining then though.

The system benefits them as they do not have to queue with the normal queueline. The system does not have to be there and it is there for the convinience of the guests. They are not obliged to offer this service and if they do not, they do not class as breaking any disability discrimination laws as they are offering a service at their discretion.

. If the able bodied person had to queue for 60 minutes and then the disabled and carer had to time it correct to join them at the front of the queue. The able bodied person then could join a ride with a queue of 30 minutes yet the disabled and carer had to wait 60 mins to go onSurely you can see that this doesn't work??

Not necessarily true as the rides with queue times such as 30 minutes did not require the pass to be presented. Again, I am giving my answers by what I used to work by. So it is very difficult to be accurate as I do not work for Thorpe Park and cannot confirm their procedures and proccess's. However I am happy to answer questions about this.

No wonder it's been going to pot, the staff have been focusing on Non-Ambient guests instead of the Non-Ambulant ones...

LOL.. It's because we've just been talking about the Abience of the noise in the hospital, if though there are Ambulances here.Ambient, Ambulant and Ambulances! All too much for me this morning!

No wonder it's been going to pot, the staff have been focusing on Non-Ambient guests instead of the Non-Ambulant ones... :DOn a serious note though, it should be considered on the basis of the disability, not how loudly the guest moans because of it being 'unfair'... Which seems to have been a problem at the past AP day...Which makes me wonder if it's obvious enough on the actual park website... But then again as most people moaning on the AP site are moaning about stuff that has been put on there before for a while, then it's a bit of an over-expectation to think that the majority would do research further than "Oh look we can skip queues, WIN!"Which makes it unfair on those who follow the rules... It's all about balance and ensuring that those who actually do require the help (like Justandy's kid) and others with autism and other disabilitys that prevent them from queueing SHOULD be the primary target of the day...But again, doctor's letters can easily be weird... I had one that got me out of PE for a week because of a dodgy Appendix (no surgery) for crying out loud... Some doctor's may be more easy to give out "cannot queue" letters than others, which is a whole other ballpark...

Agree with you there, and there is of course the problem that the notes can be completely falsed.. but that could be said for the present time aswell and has nothing to do with the new rules around this. The right thing for the park to do would be to continue issuing disabled passes to guests but inform them that they MUST bring a proof of disability or doctors letter for the next time they visit Thorpe or Chessington. This can be put as a 'flag' on the system and whenever the guest visits either of the two parks in the future it will notify the staff member that they should have ID.I used to do this, and had people who I had asked to bring identification not bring it in on their next visit. I turned them away and told them that until they brung in the relevant documentation that I would not issue them any passes. Unfortunately we all know that it's not an easy job trying to do this, so lets hope that Gurst Services have their support of their management in doing this.

[Justandy22]

Thankyou for taking the time to reply to my post aboveUnfortunately when a child has severe attachment issues, muscle depletion, balance issues etc this system does not fully work. It isn't even that as other have said is queue jumping, as we have to queue but in a different sense with the time cardWe have never had a staff member not sign the card for shorter queues which would be niceLet's use the example of 90 mins in main line then for fully able person to queue whilst. We wait the 90 minutes before entering the exit queue to meet then. We then have 90 mins before we can go on even though we have waited 90 mins for our companion to queue. So in affect we have 3 hours from starting one ride to getting on nextThanksAndy

[NickD]

Thankyou for taking the time to reply to my post aboveUnfortunately when a child has severe attachment issues, muscle depletion, balance issues etc this system does not fully work. It isn't even that as other have said is queue jumping, as we have to queue but in a different sense with the time cardWe have never had a staff member not sign the card for shorter queues which would be niceLet's use the example of 90 mins in main line then for fully able person to queue whilst. We wait the 90 minutes before entering the exit queue to meet then. We then have 90 mins before we can go on even though we have waited 90 mins for our companion to queue. So in affect we have 3 hours from starting one ride to getting on nextThanksAndy

I completely understand and simpithise with what you are saying.It is such a difficult part of the park to manage as Guest Services are unable to say "Children of a certain age are allowed to ride with more than one carer" as I know from experience that it is not just young children, but also many Adults of which have a learning disability that often have a need to ride with both of their parents. If I was able to manage it I would do the following - Continue to be stricter on who is entitled to use ride access passes By doing this, it would then allow people to ride with two genuine carers for a genuinly disabled guest. I believe that doing this is much more effective than only allowing one carer and it will be noticeable different for all. - Re - Train rides staff in the use of the Ride Access PassIt may very well be that the system seemed to be being abused as the rides staff where unsure of how exactly the card is supposed to work. This is only a possibility, but I feel that all rides staff should be shown again exactly how the times should be recorded on the card. - Smaller rides with a queue time of Less than 15/20 Minutes should not have the times on the card checkedThis will allow Disabled guests to make more out of their day and fill the gaps during the times of which they are unable to go on rides. The arguement that often faced me is that some children with learning disabilities find it difficult to have to wait around for an hour and a half before they can next go on a ride and I feel that this issue would be solved by doing the above.Of course, these ideas are alot more difficult to implement in a theme park that is not ideal for alot of guests with disabilities. There are alot of access issues to some of the rides, there are very long queues, and very little 'smaller' rides or family attractions to allow these ideas to come into place. The system has needed changing I'm sure (even though I haven't visited the park in over a year) and hopefully the park will learn from some suggestions of this change and modify I few of their proccess's accordingly.

[JoshC.]

Alot of people seem to be missing the point that disabled guests only being allowed one helper doesn't mean they cant go on with their group. The rest of their group can queue as normal and the person who was unable to queue and one friend can meet them at the loading point. Those that are able to queue will queue and only those that are actually unable to queue will use the exit, just how it should be.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but that still ruins the day slightly, no?Let say a group of 4 people go, 1 of whom is disabled. Last year, the group of 4 people could have gone on say, Saw all together. Then, they have to wait 90mins before being able to go on another major ride. They can utilise the smaller attractions at their leisure, and then go on another major attraction after 90mins. I see no real issues with that.This year, if it works how you say, then 2 people would queue for Saw for 90 mins, whilst the disabled guest and 1 carer are left hanging around for 90mins. What can they do? Go on another ride? But what if the whole group wants to do that ride, not fair on them is it? And then it's awkward anyway - when will the disabled guest know to join the queue to rejoin the rest of their group? Etc. It makes it more complicated and makes the day less enjoyable for the guests.The best option I can see is tightening who gets the disabled band. Last year for example, I saw someone get a band because 'they had ADHD and didn't understand the concept of queueing'. Sound a bit like they were pushing it? Guests probably could get away with the smallest of things if they tried hard enough. Personally, unless it's a severe mental disability or a physical disability that stops people from queueing / standing for long periods of time, then I don't think you have a right to a disabled band. And, the disabled guest should have a reasonable number of carer accompanying them - as in from 1 to 3 (maybe 4).

[Dan]

My freinds got mild epelepsy and wants to go to Thorpe park with me and our friends this year do you think Thorpe park staff would let him on rides he has black outs sometimes but they only last for about 1 minute max . And just looks like he falls asleepnwhilst standing his head just drops down no shaking attacks or any thing . Hope some one knows best procedure

[Lewis.]

Do you mean petit mal seizures?My friend has those and she is fine on rides.