Disabled Queuing Rules

[JoshC.]

Whilst no actual leaflet with all this year's info has been produced, it seems new rulings are on the website:http://www.thorpepark.com/plan-your-visit/disabled-guide.aspxNear the bottom, where it's got 'Helpers / Companions', we've got this:"Only one helper per disabled guest can use the access pass on any of our THORPE PARK rides and attractions."The entire section seems to be written as if there can only be 1 helper on a ride as well. Under Ride Access higher up, it says something about for safety reasons about the number of disabled guests, blah blah blah, you may have to divide into smaller groups - which is impossible if there's only 2 people, which could mean that there's a mistake made somewhere. Personally though, if they are limiting it to one helper per disabled guest, I think it's pretty stupid!So yeah, d'you think it is being limited to 1 person per disabled guest, or not?

[Deleted Users]

I have no problem with people with disabilities skipping queues at a theme park. They have such hard lives that making one aspect of them slightly easier is only fair. In an ideal world we wouldn't need systems in place to stop people wrongfully taking advantage of these benefits but we do. 

 

One of the benefits of RnR will be that people with mild disabilities will still be able to spend most of their time out of queues.

[Altitude]

^ Nobody was saying their lives were not hard, we were discussing how mental health should be treated. 

 

On the subject, would a pager system work for the major rides for those with mental illnesses? Then just the current queue time runs out, they can hand back either a little digital device or a card which lets the staff know that they've queued and then they can ride the attraction? I know it's similar to R&R but that doesn't seem to be working on such a large scale.

[Celia Mae]

The thing is, the Ride Access Passes are effectively a system like you're all suggesting, but on paper.

 

This is one of the passes used by the charity I work for when we took a group of our disabled young people to Chessie for the day.

 

As you can see, when they let you onto a ride they look at the queue time for that ride, add it to the current clock time, and write that in the next box. You then cannot go on a ride until that time is up.

 

 

And on the topic of making sure you have a disabled person in your group so the whole group gets fastrack, that doesn't work either. There is a maximum number of companions for each ride.

[Ryan]

^ Nobody was saying their lives were not hard, we were discussing how mental health should be treated. 

 

On the subject, would a pager system work for the major rides for those with mental illnesses? Then just the current queue time runs out, they can hand back either a little digital device or a card which lets the staff know that they've queued and then they can ride the attraction? I know it's similar to R&R but that doesn't seem to be working on such a large scale.

Why do we need to segregate between mental and physical illness? The current system/any future system should apply to both.

[Celia Mae]

I can definitely vouch for the fact that a lot of people with mental illnesses are a lot more challenging than those with physical ones, coming from someone who works with disabled people on a daily basis.

[Altitude]

Why do we need to segregate between mental and physical illness? The current system/any future system should apply to both.

 

Because in many ways they are completely different.

 

[insert patronising comment about how you have to experience both to understand blah blah]

[Celia Mae]

It's not patronising, people just need to realise that they can actually find it harder than a lot of only physically disabled people because they see and understand and interpret different things in different ways to non-mentally-disabled people.

 

Don't take this wrong, I agree with you that they are completely different.

 

But didn't this whole argument come up because it was assumed they were positively discriminated against by effectively getting free fastrack? Well as Ian said and I've shown, they don't. They just have a different way of queuing. And as Ryan said, all disabilities should be treated the same, because whether they are different or not they all mean that the person affected cannot deal with some things (like queuing) like a majority of the GP.

[Ryan]

Because in many ways they are completely different.

 

[insert patronising comment about how you have to experience both to understand blah blah]

We're talking about a theme park situation here, both mental and physical can prevent a person from standing in busy queues for a long period of time. Let's also remember that thorpe's queuelines aren't exactly spaced out entertaining queues, they're mostly cramped cattle pens holding a lot of people (this can affect someone with a mental illness massively).

[Tom]

[insert patronising comment about how you have to experience both to understand blah blah]

 

I wouldn't call it patronising at all; I genuinely believe you have to experience or be quite directly influenced by such a thing to understand it fully

 

I'd have hoped studying Psychology at degree level gives me a good insight into symptoms, severity, problems, and incidence rates of many.

[Altitude]

Oh I agree too, it just annoys me how some people seem to use the point as a way of making somebody else look bad.

 

Sorry if you disagree, but mental and physical illnesses are not the same.

[Celia Mae]

No one's disagreeing they're not the same, but people are saying that the same method can be used to deal with both.

[Ryan]

Oh I agree too, it just annoys me how some people seem to use the point as a way of looking somebody else look bad.

 

Sorry if you disagree, but mental and physical illnesses are not the same.

In this situation (where someone can't queue due to their illness, it is the same). I don't see why you think there needs to be a seperate system for people with mental illness's, I really don't.

[Altitude]

^^ Ryan seems to be opposing it that's for sure. 

 

I would imagine more people have mental illness than physical disabilities that prohibit them from standing in a queue line. Therefore if you used this same system of emptying an entire cattlepen for every person, it's going to get annoying for staff. Why add to this more? 

 

Or if that's not plausible, change the current system so it would reduce the amount of stress for everyone, staff included.

[Celia Mae]

Ryan is just saying they can both be dealth with with the current system. I don't know about this emptying a cattlepen thing, they didn't do it when we were at Chessington or we at least didn't notice, so evidently it doesn't cause that much stress.

[Ryan]

^^ Ryan seems to be opposing it that's for sure. 

 

I'm not opposing it at all, the point I'm trying to get across is that in this situation, they are the same in the sense that they are preventing the person from being able to queue.

[paige]

If it is something which really makes queuing difficult for the person, it should be treated accordingly. That's what I feel, anyway.

[Celia Mae]

I think that's how everyone feels really.

I don't know why this argument has been going on so long.

[Ian-S]

Therefore if you used this same system of emptying an entire cattlepen for every person, it's going to get annoying for staff. Why add to this more?

This is the kind of ignorance that makes disabled people feel like a burden on society, nobody said anything about the pens being emptied.

I won't go into detail but I gave up my seat on Nemesis last Friday for a disabled kid and his mum and it didn't make me feel the slightest bit discriminated against, but it made that kids day for the sake of me waiting another 30 seconds. If you got your way that kid would never get the opportunity to experience a rollercoaster and nobody should be prevented from enjoying something because thy have an invisible disability.

[Han30]

To be fair, unless you have experienced mental health problems, either first hand or if you are close to someone that has problems then you can't fully understand the impact that these problems have on day to day life.

I wouldn't even try to imagine how debilitating it must be to have a physical disability because I don't have one personally.  I think the point being made is that whether you have a physical disability or a mental health related one, people should be treated equally.

 

As mentioned before - the disabled access pass is not a fastrack - disabled people don't get to skip queues all day, they have allocated times to arrive at rides.  Of course there are people that are going to abuse the system but sadly, such is life.

 

Queuing might seem like a simple procedure in principal but in reality not everyone is able to stay in a long queue for whatever reason - and everyone has the right as a guest to theme parks, to experience the rides etc.

[Altitude]

This is the kind of ignorance that makes disabled people feel like a burden on society, nobody said anything about the pens being emptied.

I won't go into detail but I gave up my seat on Nemesis last Friday for a disabled kid and his mum and it didn't make me feel the slightest bit discriminated against, but it made that kids day for the sake of me waiting another 30 seconds. If you got your way that kid would never get the opportunity to experience a rollercoaster and nobody should be prevented from enjoying something because thy have an invisible disability.

 

Okay that's it. You have the nerve to call me ignorant when you don't even know me? I don't need to hear your heartwarming story about how you give up everything for the disabled. I treat everyone equally just like everyone should. 

 

If you understood my post you'd think differently. I admit "annoying" for staff was a bad word to use, I should have said "time saving" if it makes you feel any better. I personally think there are better, more efficient ways of doing certain things. I know my view hasn't been welcomed on this thread but to be honest I don't care in the slightest right now. Me having an opinion that different from yours does not make me ignorant. I am not ignorant to how disabled people feel, however I am personally not disabled so I, fortunately, don't know exactly what it's like.

 

And before you say anything, I have to live with mental illness every day so don't even think about posting how I'm ignorant or arrogant. You then go on to say in your post that "nobody said anything about pens being emptied". However, it was you that actually mentioned it two pages back (page 5 of this thread incase you cannot count), so don't use that argument. 

 

In my opinion, like I've said before, mental and physical disabilities are different in so many ways, and although they both prohibit that person from being able to queue, I personally think it could be dealt with better as the system is obviously being abused. 

[Altitude]

The RAP works like Reserve and Ride, you walk up to the ride exit, show them your wristband and access card, they then shout across to the operator on the other side who closes off one of the cattle pens (you don't get a choice), you then wait, if someone was already in the 'pen', they go first, then you go on the next rain, depending how busy the station is, you can wait up to 10 minutes, when you get on, they mark your card with the queue time displayed on the boards outside (there is a repeater in some control boxes), you then cannot use the ride access pass again until that time is up.

 

Oh and here's your earlier post, just for reference.

 

[Double post, god I'm a hypocrite]

[pognoi]

 

And before you say anything, I have to live with mental illness every day so don't even think about posting how I'm ignorant or arrogant. You then go on to say in your post that "nobody said anything about pens being emptied". However, it was you that actually mentioned it two pages back (page 5 of this thread incase you cannot count), so don't use that argument. 

 

In my opinion, like I've said before, mental and physical disabilities are different in so many ways, and although they both prohibit that person from being able to queue, I personally think it could be dealt with better as the system is obviously being abused. 

 

 

Agh, not fun to see a member of staff personally attack a member like that. 

 

The system is very difficult to abuse, surprisingly. As has been said numerous times now, I know for some merlin parks that the pass works that you can't go and queue for another ride until your time slot has passed. Everyone is queuing (aparts from FPs), just some are doing so on paper, rather then in pens. I should also point out that mental illnesses range so widely, to say you live with one doesn't necessarily justify being opinionated on all of them. You yourself said they are all so different (and please don't go out on a limb and accuse me of being arrogant too, because I can go out on a double jointed, extended limb if you play that card).

 

At the end of the day, some of the priority pass holders actually may even end up waiting longer then the main queues. They have to come back on this allocated time, and they're not allowed to arrive beforehand. They also end up waiting (albeit a short amount of time) on top of this, before they are allocated seats, and even then their time slot may not be written until after they have ridden (although I believe this is rarely the case, and they tend to be written beforehand, and do include the approximate ride time).

 

I appreciate Ian's earlier comment may be a slice of positive discrimination, however I'm sure that it was all in the faith of a good heart. If the child wasn't disabled however, would you have done the same Ian? I mean, they would have only had to wait an extra 30 seconds.

 

 

Good, debate is good.

[Altitude]

Yes debate can be good, if it's done well. What Ian said to me wasn't right and wasn't from a good place so I'm throwing it right back at him, even if it makes me look a fool.

 

And by the way I meant people without what appears to be a significant enough mental illness sometimes get a pass, as was mentioned earlier by someone else, but I get where you're coming from with your point.

 

And before someone says "all mental illness is significant", I agree but there's a flaw when it comes to how should get any queueing "privileges" if you can call it that.

[Ian-S]

Altitude, I didn't call you ignorant (neither did I call you arrogant, I can post up the definition of both if you want), I said your attitude was typical of the ignorance exhibited by a lots of people (there's a difference), which makes the disabled feel like a burden, sectioning up different disabilities into categories is not going to make the system work any better and could probably end up with the Park being done for Disability Discrimination. Alton and Chessie run a two tier system for able bodied and non-able, but at the ride, the procedure is the same.

 

Definitation of disability under the Equality Act 2010

You’re disabled under the Equality Act 2010 if you have a physical or mental impairment that has a ‘substantial’ and ‘long-term’ negative effect on your ability to do normal daily activities.

In other words, in the eyes of the law, there is no such thing as mental or physical disability, the two are categorised simply as a disability.

You (and others) also seemed to be under the impression that the RAP gives the disabled person free fastrack, this is what some of us call ignorance too, I.e. you don't know how the system works, so have assumed how it works in your own head and though that ignorance, assumed wrong, I would hope that by now, nobody here still thinks that is the case (although I see from your last post you still think the RAP is a queuing privilege).

As someone else pointed out, it's extremely difficult to fiddle the system, maybe if there was more than one disabled guest in a party you could swap cards per ride etc. but overall it's harder than you think. Sure there are probably people who get the wristband who shouldn't, but I would imagine there are not as many people doing this as you think too, and of course, even if someone does get the wristband, it still doesn't gain them anything over a normal member of the public who has queued, because they cannot use the wristband again for the length of time that they would have queued for anyway, so I simple don't understand how, considering how many first hand experiences of the system have been conveyed to you in this thread, you still consider that it's some sort of queue jumping facility that gives everybody instant access.

If you have a better way for the system to work, put it here then and those of us who have experienced the system can say whether we think it's a good idea (or whether in fact, the system already does that).

toofpikk, yes I have, many times, usually not for a single person, or two people just wanting their ride quicker, but I have put people in front of me if they are in a group and it will help them, on Friday there was about 8 kids all wanting to ride Rita together, the Batcher put too many people on the platform so there were only six free seats, they asked some others who told them to f*** off (literally) then they asked us and I said sure go ahead, we went on the next train, not an issue for us. I'm no saint, far from it, I'm just old enough to know there's more to life than being a narrow minded selfish git (although Altitude may disagree lol).

[Ian-S]

I also didn't say they cleared the pens, I said 'one pen', I also said if there was anybody already in that 'pen' they went first and they closed it off behind them.

Sorry for the DP, as you say, debate is good, but please read and digest what I say, don't speed-read it and put words in my mouth that I didn't say.