Sidders

MAPpers and Pop Badge Collectors rejoice, the WickerLad is open again! And probably with a RAP queue bigger than the main queue.

There is a difference between being innovative and being plain stupid. If the park worked with some of the smaller and cheaper manufacturers such as Chance, S&S, RMC, they could get great rides for peanuts. What Thorpe and Merlin have been doing recently isn't innovative or interesting, its a waste of money.

You also have an element of Global business strategy going into play here too:
 
1. Nick V will only invest if it guarantees 25% return on investment (as quoted in an interview he did last year). This was not the case for the last 2 big investments, so there is an element of caution with Thorpe. Once bitten, twice shy, third time reluctant.
 
2. The strategy of Merlin is to add bedrooms and hotels. This is where the majority of the investment is happening because this is where the majority of the capital comes from - the rest of the investments are kept low key where possible and the parks hardware investment has ground to pretty much a halt except for special circumstances. It is safe business / revenue generation. Thorpe is limited to what it can do in this space because of location, available space etc. Compare Thorpe Shark to the hotels at Windsor, Chessie, Alton and Gardaland. As a result, you have a park that seems neglected because they aren't getting huge investments for hardware (other than DBGT) nor are they getting the hotel investments either.
 
3. IP's generally work. When you get the right one. Peppa Pig in Europe has been a massive hit at the parks and the World Of Play new openings are huge around the world. Sadly, Merlin will never have the UK license so has to settle for other IPs instead. Saw broke the mould and was a success. But piggy-packing on some-ones IP is less risky than creating your own - arguably the lazy, "quick win" option, but if it works you're a fool to not exploit it.
 
4. Thorpe seem to be becoming the Six Flags option of Merlin. They are going down the generic, lifeless, soul-less way of running a park as an experiment because they have no specialism - Chessie with the zoo; LEGOLAND with, well, Lego; Alton and the Towers, Gardaland being a bit like Disney, Heide Park being beautiful etc, Thorpe has no anchor and while it is so close to Chessie and LEGOLAND I don't think it ever will have one. But, they are now stuck in a rutt of this way of working doesn't work andno-one is willing to give up the capital to break them out of the cycle because of the toxic "you must perform financially in order to be given money to better yourself" attitudes that modern businesses have. I'd love it if Merlin were to just say "Right, here's £100 million. Sweep the entire park and make it great again within a year so that we can ramp up profits next year" but it won't happen.
 
5. I have a feeling that the new "owners" will not be as restrictive as playing shareholder politics. They are going to be investing for the strength of their business and not the perceptions and opinions of shareholders. This may see an uplift in investments in due course. But, don't hold your breath
 
6. MMM seem to play it safe with investments and there are no rumblings anywhere of us working with pioneering or elite ride manufacturers. And while Merlin have the perception that rollercoasters bring in more people than flat rides (which are by large more expensive to maintain for the investment they require in comparison), we will always see the decline in flats and ramping up of coasters of varying quality. Maybe if they were more daring, we would see an RMC spring up at Thorpe.. or a Mack Launcher at Chessie.

I'd have exactly the same attitude. I wouldn't hold the park at fault regardless of who got hurt, even if it was me let alone family or friends, not unless they gave them the knife or set up the fight. This is one of the major things wrong with the world in my eyes; everything is always someone else fault. Someone should have prevented, someone should have intervened, someone should have seen the future. The suspect is the suspect.
 
You can mitigate against a risk, but you can not eliminate all danger. The security as it is is a reasonable response to the risk presented. With this being the first incident of this type in 40 years, how many issues have they prevented with their actions in this time? Loads I expect. Considering your opinion of their clientele you'd be hard pressed to argue against that having been the case, but you can't prove the effectiveness of a preventative measure.
 
You can learn from incidents, you can see how something happened and amend your processes for the future, but that does not prove an ability to have foreseen.

They're not adjustable, but they can be on or off. 
 
On test runs with empty trains they're off to prevent stalling, with riders they're on to prevent fun overspeeding.

I have said this time and time again. A fan forum will almost certainly reflect the current state of what it is dedicated to which in this case is Thorpe Park.
 
If Thorpe Park was performing and delivering to its potential, this forum would reflect that with members getting real excited about the place.
 
As it is, the park has been a shadow of its old self for a few years now to the point where many who once loved it are now staying away as they are fed up. So ofcourse this forum reflects that.
 
It would be nice to see positivity.....but when the park is leaving little to find positives in, its hardly surprising that you see more constructive criticism on here

As a back alley frequenter I can confirm this is correct.
 

The thing with being the best is that there can only be one. And the thing with Inferno is the more unique features such as the pre-lift tunnel, the smoke effects and the actually pretty decent theming make it stand out now to me more then other. At this point I've done quite a few inverters (humble brag) and Inferno always has something about it that makes me happy. Whether it's because it was my first B&M or because it has a certain magic I don't know. I still maintain it should have just been called Inferno, because it just gets endlessly compared to its older sister.
 
IMO it is one of the UK's finest rides and a night ride one of the best experiences.

To raise the online booking price when EVERYONE will have to book online is dodgy however you slice it.

And here’s a reminder of what the dome used to look like.
 


 
It’s not perfect but definitely better than the mediocrity shown in the newer pictures. Everything looked so much better pre-2019.
 
 

I mean, fair play to him for the amount of effort gone into it, but my face throughout the entire video was just:
 

Nothing much to add to this discussion really, other than it's been an interesting read!
 
I can't see the future looking too bright for DBGTROTD and would agree with @JoshC. to be honest... can't see that it will open in 2020 at all. It would take quite some retheme to change it to something else minus VR. It has been, and is going to continue to be, a huge problem for the park.
 
One thing I will say - and have always said - the show building exterior (generally), the pre-show, and above all else, the Victorian carriage exterior, the tube train interiors, the Underground station and the fake shop (minus the guy in the white t-shirt) are all pretty much world class - and I say that without a sense of irony at all. They've nailed those.  It's just such a shame that the rest has always been a bit of a confused mess. Maybe that bodes well for keeping it and rehashing it to something else, I don't know. For it to be removed in it's entirity after the Derren IP expires, or before, would be unheard of - but I don't think it's out of the question. The money pot isn't never ending, and there comes a point where you have to admit defeat, especially with the added complication of coronavirus (and the very valid points about the storyline featuring corona symptoms, plus people probably not wanting doom and gloom when they can finally go to a theme park after all this has passed) - it's going to be morbidly fascinating what happens next.

@JoshC., your order has arrived.
 
Decided to create a piano cover of Duel’s original theme. Created through listening and without sheet music. Requests welcome. 

Thorpe's almost too far gone for me! there's so much I'd want to scrap and start again lol! So much of it isn't my taste anymore.   Thematically and stylistically I'd go for something between Toverland and Hansa Park,  and re-instate a more Nautical aesthetic 
 
Remodel and extend Rhumba Rapids - using some of land/lakeland area behind it towards the old  treasure island site - It would be super themed and include a drop - and would be the first rapids in the Uk to feature a drop, think infinity falls at Seaworld - but engineered to be not so wet for this British climate!
 
Scrap tidalwave and build a PULSAR (Walibi Belgium) clone in its place with an old victorian waterworks steampunk/industrial theme. Retheme Stealth to a steampunk, rocket/teslar theme
 
Get rid of the 4D theatre and install a themed funhouse in its building aka Hotel Tartuf/Fiasco  
 
Scrap Colossus, walking dead, DBGT and storm surge, samurai, detonator, Angry birds land, jungle escape, Quantum etc etc.
 
  Replace Colossus with a new-gen Vekoma such as Lech coaster! 
 
Re-theme the old Canada Creek area to 'Sherwood forest' re-open loggers leap, create a medieval village, re-theme SAW to a castles and turrets/torture Chamber theme like Fluch Von Novgorod at Hansa Park, also install a next gen steeplechase coaster themed to jousting, as well as a high ropes course themed to Robin hoods hideout etc. 
 
Re-theme Swarm to 'dragon-fly' with a huge thatched station - with a much more 'natural' and whimsical themed area, taking inspiration from Toverlands 'Avalon' area and taking advantage of the lakeside setting!
 
Build an out-and-back B&M hyper-coaster that extends over the bridge and along the the side of the car-park skirting the lake and back - in a similar way Silver star does 
 
Build an RMC at some point! 
 
Finally build that hotel on the lakes edge where the old cement works used to be including a waterpark similar to Plopsaqua 
 
 

While it's nice to have fantastical ideas, what you propose is to amend/remove the ride beyond all recognition (cost - huge) and retain the pyramid (value - zero) when the pyramid itself makes completing significant works inside difficult to impossible. It's a no from me.
 
When the ride is finally done beyond small cosmetic stuff like TWD is it'll be a pile of rubble.

JUST TALK ABOUT HIS IDEA AS ITS SO GOOD

An unnecessary expenditure for the park. They are restricted with capital so are unable to build a new half decent attraction and so have no choice but to try and focus on events to bolster the line up and sell as a reason to return. I suspect that they have very little impact on the parks revenue and advertising these events is just a way of reminding the public Thorpe Park exists. 
 
These events aren't going to turn anyone away but I doubt they will bring that many people in either. It just seems like a trick to get Merlin to release some capital for advertising so they can draw people into the park on the merits of existing attractions. 
 
Tomorrow will be a fun one when Merlin provide the preliminary financial results for 2018. That might be able to give us an insight into the lack of investment. 

Looking forward to JackSilkstone's Closed Season Update video with a thumbnail that says "NEW HYPERCOASTER CONFIRMED?!?!?!?" or similar ?

Thorpe’s social media is absolutely embarrassing. More and more brands try and present themselves as fun and ‘down with the kids’ whilst forgetting the basics.
 
For example, you’ve got airports repeatedly tweeting about how they’re on giphy without communicating with the public regarding an incident.
 
The best park Twitter is that of the Efteling, in my opinion. They don’t try to be your best mate by posting self-deprecating memes or stupid gifs; they actually treat you with the respect you deserve as a paying guest. Their responses are immediate, helpful and just by using punctuation, not too corporate sounding. It’s a simple approach, but social media is the only way a park can ‘speak’. Therefore, it’s so important that the ethos of the park and it’s rides are coveyed by the social media team. 
 
 

It doesn't mean anything, it's just somebody being paid £8 an hour to reply to tweets who has no say over the park at all.

Kraft became Mondelezé International not long after buying Cadbury's. The recipe was changed in the name of profit and blaming changing tastes and political pressure to reduce sugar. Its a prime example of the owner not understanding the brand they have, which is a similar problem Varney has. He fundamentally has failed to grasp the importance of the Merlin brand and as a result focuses on selling the sub brands within the other sub brands. They should be selling the master brand, not the hundreds of other small ones. 
 
Another consequence of this lack of a master brand is that Varney and the board seem to micromanage. The sub brands get a lot of influence from higher ups and push them towards a goal that doesn't really benefit the product and benefits the ability to sell the product in the other sub brands.

‘If we can hold off anything depicting a referendum, that would be great’.
 
Thorpe of all the main Merlin attractions (by far) has the most significant issues concerning brand, marketing, identity and as an overall product. Chessington and Towers are not immune to noticeable issues, but are doing comparatively better as whole. 
 
The park was booming in the naughties, but is now slipping in a worrying state as a result of poor product offering, decisions and experience. The park for most guests is probably seen as an overpriced, run down place with unreliable horror themed rides with an abusive clientele and ‘over worked’ staff. They are likely  one of the lowest performing major tourist attractions in the U.K. 
 
The possible soloution is to get back to basics. Look at what they are offering and who to? Create marketing to appeal to that offering and stick with it. Work on park appearances and experience. When these are sorted, start investing in some quality ‘long term’ reliable hardware and infrastructure. 
 
I think they are probably overdue a new entranve too considering their existing one has just been updated cheaply every few years.

The humour never ends at Thorpe Park HQ does it.

I'll take Piraten or Javelin personally.