Matt 236

Nothing much to add to this discussion really, other than it's been an interesting read!
 
I can't see the future looking too bright for DBGTROTD and would agree with @JoshC. to be honest... can't see that it will open in 2020 at all. It would take quite some retheme to change it to something else minus VR. It has been, and is going to continue to be, a huge problem for the park.
 
One thing I will say - and have always said - the show building exterior (generally), the pre-show, and above all else, the Victorian carriage exterior, the tube train interiors, the Underground station and the fake shop (minus the guy in the white t-shirt) are all pretty much world class - and I say that without a sense of irony at all. They've nailed those.  It's just such a shame that the rest has always been a bit of a confused mess. Maybe that bodes well for keeping it and rehashing it to something else, I don't know. For it to be removed in it's entirity after the Derren IP expires, or before, would be unheard of - but I don't think it's out of the question. The money pot isn't never ending, and there comes a point where you have to admit defeat, especially with the added complication of coronavirus (and the very valid points about the storyline featuring corona symptoms, plus people probably not wanting doom and gloom when they can finally go to a theme park after all this has passed) - it's going to be morbidly fascinating what happens next.

A tier . None of their parks fall into the A tier category.
 
B tier . Chessington. Unlike the other Merlin parks, I feel like there is love for this place. The staff do care about what happens to it, the park has charm and atmosphere. A lot of the last decade has been spent refurbishing and bringing attractions back to life.  Out of all the Merlin catalogue, this is the one that I can safely say compares to some of the European parks out there and for me there is nothing better then sitting in the Hotel bar overlooking the Savannah and seeing the Zebras and Giraffes roaming.
 
C tier - Alton Towers - Without that coaster line up (which is the best in Europe don't hate me), this park has a lot missing and not a whole lot going for it. Rubbish opening hours and not enough filler in-between the top stuff means that a day here can easily drag by if you like variety in your day. Points forward are Hex and Katanga Canyon, points against are Spinball Whizzer, what they did with the Ripsaw space and Sub terra being abandoned.
 
Heide Park - Suffers from a lot of the same problems as Towers but without the rollercoasters. I like Flug, Krake is okay and the bobsleigh is class but the rest of it is dross. Vekoma SLC and looper as the support coasters don't help and whole areas of the park are behind wooden walls. 
 
D tier - Gardaland Similar problems as Heide Park except somehow it has an even worse SLC, a pointless Intamin water ride (which goes on for what feels like hours). I like Oblivion and Raptor but frankly, Miribilandia is a much better theme park. 
 
F tier - Thorpe Park has become a nightmare. The park that was full of ambition and intent and drive in the early 00's has become a shell of what it was trying to achieve. Full of dark themes, run down areas, conflicting ideas of what its identity is and lots of attractions thrown at the place to drive attendance has meant Thorpe Park is well short of what it wanted to be. I like The Swarm, Inferno, Stealth and Detonator but the rest is soul-less garbage. Who builds an 85 water chute ride then hides it behind loads of game stalls. Ridiculous. Charmless. Lost. 

An interesting question with a few answers.
 
First off, to answer you concern: it was nothing to do with it being "too extreme". There wasn't enough serious complaints from guests who did it to warrant its removal. Frankly, I don't even know if there were any complaints - everyone knew what they were getting themselves in for. These sorts of experiences have a niche market (albeit, Thorpe and Towers' alone experiences expanded and simultaneously watered-down the niche).
 
A short answer: There wasn't a strong enough drive internally to get it to come back.
Devising the experience takes time (it wasn't simply "actors do whatever they want"), and there was no one who was in a position (in terms of the time-commitment required) to create it. There had been some backlash from actors about the experience who didn't feel comfortable doing it (something I'll go into later), plus it could add another hour onto an already very long day, where they have to work 10x harder. Those two together meant it just wouldn't get off the ground.
 
A long answer: Less of an answer, and more of a story..
Face it Alone came about in 2013, with the park trying to diversify their line up and really focus on becoming a bigger, better and more unique Halloween event. The Lionsgate IP bought in the brands and the interest, completely refreshing the concept of Fright Nights. They tried new maze concepts: choices (Cabin in the Woods) and outdoors (Blair Witch Project). They introduced a (sadly poorly received) overnight experience, which was trendy at the time, and pushed forward with the Face it Alone: an extreme and an alone experience in one; again something which was trending and on the up in the scare industry at the time.
 
For anyone that did it in 2013, you'll no doubt know that every experience was different. The actors were given a scope of things they could do, boundaries they could push and ideas they could toy with. It was free-reign, but it gave the actors a much freer realm to work in. Another important thing to note is that Face it Alone wasn't particularly popular in 2013. People were unsure what exactly it was, whether it was worth the £15, etc. You could also choose which maze to experience. Which all in all meant it was easier to organise, give a personal touch, etc.
 
When 2014 came along, the experience changed somewhat. Whilst it was still 'extreme', the actors stuck to much stricter roles. Basically, actor 1 did x to you, actor 2 did y to you, etc. By no means a bad thing (if planned correctly, this can be a very good thing), just different. Again, this year you could choose your own maze and, whilst it had gained popularity, it was still pretty calm.
 
2015 is when everything changed, and was arguably the beginning of the end. Face it Alone became a much bigger spectacle. Gone were the days of choosing your own maze, and it was instead replaced with the Roulette Ceremony by Big Top. A great idea in fairness, and one that many enjoyed. This meant it garnered more attention and became much more popular, and went outside of the niche. Already teetering on the edge here.
 
2015 did go back to 2013's free realm style too. There were clearly things that certain actors had to do at certain points to progress you through the experience, but in between actors had a very large scope of what they could do.
 
The next thing with 2015 was the overt sexualisation of the experiences. It's probably not suitable to discuss the details on a public forum, but many things done within the experiences weren't scare tactics, they were simply there sexualised things made to make people feel uncomfortable, humiliated and uncertain. This was the first year that a safe word was introduced too. Safe words do appear in many extreme attractions, but I don't think it's a coincidence that a safe word appeared at the same time the sexualised content of Face it Alone occurred. 
 
This was a completely different direction to what had happened before. Whilst Face it Alone may have featured things like nudity/being tied up/etc - ie things that COULD be sexualised - they never WERE. By doing so, it adds a very different tone. And this tone meant that people were enjoying these experiences in a very different way. There were plenty of times that people within Face it Alone experiences were asking for certain things to be done to them so that they could 'get their money's worth' and be satisfied with the experience. These sorts of things had happened in previous years, but not to the degree they had happened in 2015. This, unsurprisingly, led to some actors being rather uncomfortable with the experience.
 
Come 2016, things had been toned down again. It went back more to 2014's "carbon copy" style experience. Originally it led to some complaints that it wasn't as extreme. I think one issue was that the 2015 version of Face it Alone had created a following of people who hadn't experienced extreme attractions outside of Face it Alone, so they had a very set idea of what should happen. When this didn't happen, it lead to that sort of backlash. Getting the balancing act right likely proved hard. And yet there were still people asking for certain things to be done to them, etc.
 
Then 2017 came along, there had been a feeling of discomfort for a while from some actors. The experience had expanded too far out and wasn't something that could be controlled and marketed as it should. People changed roles. The amount of work required to hit that sweet spot was ever-growing, for perhaps diminishing returns. Fright Nights also focused on The Walking Dead, and AMC are known for very strict guidelines about their attractions. Working out a Face it Alone experience for those mazes would have been near-on impossible. So everything together just meant it didn't happen, and it hasn't returned since.
 
And that's that. New external IP, internal concerns and arguably a bit of apathy/running out of steam all really finished it off.
 
 
Maybe in the future it can return. With the AMC contract disappearing soon that would help. Seeing the extreme version of Creepy Caves at Chessington being a success probably helps. But it requires a lot of work, a lot more than many perhaps realise and appreciate. And I'm not sure I could see it happening soon.

Thank you Matt for keeping us updated.
 
These are indeed strange and challenging times we live in, but hopefully one day we can look forward to seeing these meets running again soon.

Prior to launch in 2016, the park drew up a rough contingency plan for what would happen if the VR totally failed. And I mean totally failed. As in they got to a point where using VR was a complete impossibility, and they *had* to get the ride open. It was a rough plan, and I doubt the park ever would have truly considered it, but it effectively made use of planted actors (who would become 'infected' by the gases and turn crazy), the screens near the top of the carriages to communicate a story and a more 'live' experience in generally. As I say, and as far as I understand, this was very much a quick and rough plan drawn up in case absolutely everything failed, but wasn't exactly considered as a serious option.
 
It would certainly be feasible for the park to implement something like this. It effectively just requires to hiring of extra actors and the writing of more scripts. Again though, I highly doubt the park actually would do this, especially given the feedback to the ride so far.
 
Ghost Train was meant to have more effects that did not make it into the ride. Leg ticklers I believe were bought but never installed, for example. The point early on in the process where the windows were meant to be screens is another example. These things are much harder to solve and introduce retrospectively too.
 
What does this means for Ghost Train's future though? I believe the Derren Brown IP contract is multiple years (6 I heard). Whether there's any break in the contract is anyone's guess. Obviously things like a global pandemic aren't top priorities to be talked about when drawing up contracts for IPs for rides. So it would be interesting to see what happens. But then, what do they do with the space? Do they totally gut it out and put something new inside? Transform the ride system into some form of immersive tunnel (which, with the ride system currently in place isn't impossible, but likely expensive)? Completely remove the whole thing? They *could* leave it SBNO and transform the inside for Fright Nights attractions, but again that's costly and also leaves a giant elephant in the room.
 
Another potential issue: could there be a negative public reaction to the theme of the ride? If you piece and twist it together, it's all about a respiratory thing causing illness. In this day and age, I could see some people trying to twist it...
 
In my opinion, it's very hard to see Ghost Train opening in the mid-term. Certainly not this year, even if the park reopens. If we work on the timeframe of no vaccine till autumn next year, it's hard to see it reopen next year. After that, the contract could be up.
 
There's the more global problems as well about what this means for VR in the entertainment and leisure industry in general. But also, what about 3D rides? It's less of a problem as they've been around a lot longer and cleaning them is easier. But I still reckon many people will feel less comfortable wearing them. And it does mean parks have to be more careful and thorough washing them (and I'm sure there's plenty of parks who aren't..). That's going to be an interesting step for the industry.
 
So yeah, tl;dr. I can't see Ghost Train reopening any time soon. A true reimagining of it will cost millions to do well. They're left with a giant elephant in the room which completely screws them up any way.

Decided to create another piano video, this time based on Droomvlucht (Dream Flight), A dark ride located at The Efteling.
 

Similar to Europa Park and their drone footage last week, Paultons have done the same. Looks such a well kept and aesthetically pleasing park. 
 
 

Here goes:
 
1/ Taron (obviously)- for it’s layout and impressive scenery
2/ Black Mamba- remarkable surroundings and superb layout 
3/ Helix- immense terrain and layout 
4/ Balder- Ejector machine 
5/ Baron 1898- quality immersive attraction 
6/ De Vlieglande Hollander (Flying Dutchman)- Quality experience that is a water ride, coaster and dark ride all in one!
7/ Wodan Timburcoaster- ralentless machine with a great theme
8/  Euromir- one of the most unique coasters around 
9/ Shambhala- forceful yet elegant 
10/ Oziris- underrated invert with a quirky theme 
11/ Pegasus Express (Asterix)- also underrated, fun ride 
12/ Untamed*- This really packs a punch!
13/ Goliath*- Impressive it is 
14/ Lech*- Vekoma have come a long way since SLCs
15/ Zadra*- RMC goodness
16/ Nemesis- there had to be a UK one in there somewhere and this is probably the best example 
17/ Smiler- not for everyone, but I overhear a lot that American park fans like the look of it 
18/ Taiga*- Another quality looking Intamin 
19/ Fenix- quality wing rider with excellent landscaping 
20/ Troy- Anothet quality woodie
 
* = not experienced yet so going by reputation. 

It's OK we can rename the topic to 2019-2021!

Seeing as there won’t be any meets for a while, I think TPM should have social distancing parties/virtual get-togethers on something like Skype or Zoom 😄

Or even just a big group chat? ☺️

5) Thorpe Park TPM meet 2013. There was something just so special about this trip. Whether it was the fact it was snowing, freezing cold, the most awesome people on a trip or just everything put together I don't know but it was just brilliant. To Peaj and Dara riding Tidal Wave and being drenched for the rest of the day or sitting in Calypso BBQ with hot chocolates and coffees. 
 
4) Disneyland Paris Fandaze 2018. The end of the 25th anniversary celebration really but this was a trip where many rare characters made an appearance as well as meeting the (at the time) CEO of Disneyland Paris, Catherine Powell. It was a long day but a fantastic one.
 
 
3) Europa Park 2006. I met my future husband on this trip so it has many, many special memories for me. Travelling through Rust to the Lidl from the Tipi village. Getting drunk in a field and several of us falling into a lake. Getting on Silver Star for the first time. Travelling the diamond mine and avoiding the bears, seeing the metal dragon. Such a great trip.
 
 
2) Walt Disney World 2011. When building up to Florida, it was Universal and Seaworld that I wanted and craved. But once the trip was over it was the Disney parks that captured my heart. This was the trip where my boyfriend and I were chosen to be in the Jammin' Jungle Parade which was utterly wonderful. I'll need forget this amazing trip.
 
 
1) Chessington 1998. I wasn't an enthusiast of any kind, I was just really obsessed with them. I used to draw pictures of the Vampire with its classic bat trains all the time. This was a trip long time coming and I remember sitting outside the Bubbleworks, eating my McDonalds and looking up and watching this beautiful train swoop through Transylvania. It caught my attention and has shaped my theme park life really. To this day I love the Arrow suspended rides but Chessington is where it all started.

Has to be my first trip to Cedar Point in 2018
 
The park was on my bucket list for well over ten years and did NOT disappoint. Years of the place being hyped up and it lived right up to it. Then there's the small matter of Steel Vengeance simply blowing every other coaster I've been on clean out of the water. 
 
First time to Florida was also highly memorable!!

With none of us likely to visit a park in current situations, I decided to create a new thread to Try and keep things upbeat. 
 
What are everyone’s most memorable theme park visits? Where did you go to and what made that place or trip so special? Be as specific as you like, make a list. Was it the circumstances or the atmosphere that made it so?
 
I’ll make a start.
 
5/ Blackpool Pleasure Beach September 2014
I had just gone through a Bumpy time of family related health issues, so this trip couldn’t have come at a better time. Blackpool was TPM’s most ambitious meet-up to date and the park proved to be my first major non-Merlin Park at the time. 
 
many of my Blackpool trips have had somewhat special circumstances, but none more than this one which really pushed the boat out for me on both a progressive and social level. 
 
4/ Cedar Point- August 2018
For years it had been a goal of mine to get out to the states and this was the trip to do just that. Cedar Point is easily my favourite amusement park, from it’s selection of modern and traditional attractions, not to mention beautiful location. But one of the things that made this trip stand out was  seeing how remarkably different American culture is. Long roads going for miles, vast landscapes and flags on pretty much every street.
 
3/  Chessington -April 2013
The trip that started it all, and one of the most important of all time. This was the first trip with the TPM community. The one which would pave the road for future meets and trips to come. Getting to meet so many different enthusiasts was simply amazing and further helped build my already strong interests in theme parks and other attractions.  
 
2/ Phantasialand- September 2016
Any visit to Phantasialand is memorable full stop, especially this visit. Given the circumstances of my personal life then, I wouldn’t be forgetting this trip anytime soon. I was simply blown away  by this  place and everything it had to offer (excluding Temple and that Wakoblando). Taron was definitely something to remember too,
 
1/ Disneyland Paris- April 2015
I don’t think any trip ever has (or ever will) reach the Crazy excitement levels seen here. At that point of time I was crazily obsessed about visiting Disneyland Paris. So much, I even made a several part series known as Disney and the Creek.
 
April 2015 was when the dream finally came true, thanks to Peaj (and a handful of TPMers). Everything from the trip was truly memorable, from the ‘chest belting’ singalongs during the journey to that last Earl of Sandwich before leaving. Not only were the parks truly magical, but everything during the whole visit was so memorable. I’ll never forget that.
 

With the park’s unlikely to open anytime soon, I decided to create a piano medley based off the soundtracks from Thorpe Park Resort. Created the arrangement myself.
 

With the park’s unlikely to open anytime soon, I decided to create a piano medley based off the soundtracks from Thorpe Park Resort. Created the arrangement myself.
 

Stay strong everyone! We will get through these challenging days somehow.
 
I wrote a blog about some suggestions.
https://forum.maniahub.com/blogs/entry/931-10-theme-park-related-things-to-enjoy-right-now/

Thank you Matt for keeping us updated.
 
These are indeed strange and challenging times we live in, but hopefully one day we can look forward to seeing these meets running again soon.

Dear TPM members
 
It is with regret that I announce the cancellation of all TPM meets for the foreseeable future.
 
However, it is only fair that we think of the health and safety of all our members and the general public. 
 
Once things calm down we will come up with a new plan. 
 
Let's hope we get through this crisis sooner rather than later and can all enjoy social events and the one thing we all love, visiting theme parks! 
 
Thank you for your understanding. 
 
Matt
 
 
  Quote

And in doing so has almost killed a fair few industries.
 
Absolute nonsense to tell people to not go out to these places but not say what's in place to help these businesses out with the lack of trade.
 
Literally only do so to ensure that the Tory friendly insurance companies don't have to pay out millions to ensure businesses don't go under and people end jobless.
 
Awful.

And Efteling have now announced that, as of tomorrow, the park will be closed, and the entire resort will be closed from Monday:
 
 
The resort is usually open 365 days a year.
 
Legoland opened fully today and have encouraged guests to keep their distance between groups in queue lines, similar to Efteling's previous advice. 

2020 park map is available here:  https://www.chessington.com/media/msbjs1wa/2020-park-map-theme-park-zoo-sea-life.pdf
 
It's interest to note that Blue Barnacle, despite being an entirely new piece of ride hardware with a new theme, isn't in any way being marketed as 'new' or even 'returning' for 2020, which is refreshing.

Think we need some more Top 10 variations.
 
Top 10 Theme Park Soundtracks:


10/  The Island Theme- Thorpe Park Resort
The direction of the park has been heavily  questionable over the last number of years, however the introduction of the main theme is one of the few better things that has arguably been introduced. I know this placement will be a mixed-bag to some, but I think the introduction of this music definitely gives the entrance area at least, more of a build up and atmosphere. It does beat the chart music indefinitely.
 
9/ Main Street USA- Disneyland Paris 
One of my most exciting theme park memories was visiting Disneyland Paris for the first time (5 years nearly already?), but nothing could’ve helped boost that feeling than the beautiful Main-street  soundtrack. Comprising a mixture of traditional songs and ones from shows/musicals, the playlist beautifully helps put together what must be one of the most impressive theme park entrances around.
 
N.B I believe the park use the mix from the original park now.

8/ Valhalla- Blackpool
Dramatic and forcefully attention grabbing, nothing pleases the ear more than listening to the main theme of Valhalla. The ride may not be operational for 2020, but least it’s soundtrack still boosts out from the nearby speakers.
 
7/ Droomvlucht- Efteling 
6/ Euromir- Europa Park
One of the weirdest (yet wonderful) pieces of mainstream theme park music to exist. The unique soundtrack greatly complimented the ride, whether it’s in the queue line or going up the lift of forever. It works perfectly!
 
5/ Fata Morgana- Efteling
Efteling stride with some truly magical pieces of music, but not many can overturn the wonders of the score of Fata Morgana. Meaning to be a mirage, the music perfectly blends amongst the many rich scenes of the attraction, whether that be the grand palace suite or town scenes within the ride. The attraction is essentially an Arabian take on Pirates Of The Caribbean, but that doesn’t take anything away from the ride. 
 
4/ Klugheim/Taron Soundtrack- Phantasialand 
PHANTASIALAND real,y know how to master mysterious and whimsical themes in their parks and the music really seems to hit the nail on the head there. What I like about the Klugheim theme is how the music is varied yet developed throughout the area giving enough balance to keep it interesting, whilst also entailing a strange yet uncharted vibe to the area.
 
3/ Phantom Manor- Disneyland Paris 
I am completely aware this is a variation and re-work of the original Hsunted Mansion soundtrack, but there is something just remarkable about this theme working. Whilst I’m yet to experience either of the American rides, the theme from the Paris definitely takes the music a step further by giving a deeper more meaningful and perhaps emotional content. This wraps the whole Frontier Land Story together rather nicely. 
 
2/ Chiapas Theme- Phantasialand 
I adore much of Phantasialand’s music, but the Chiapas theme tops all of it. Mysterious, upbeat and soothing are just some of the words you could use to describe the soundtrack. From it’s main theme to it’s wonderful (yet hilarious) disco room Varient. The Budapest orchestra and IMA score struck gold here!
 
 
1/ Europa Park suite, - Europa Park
This piece of music is honestly gorgeous, atmospheric, cinematic and makes for an amazing soundtrack. You know a piece of music is great when it gives you a positive vibe and always make you feel better after listening. 
 
Tried to give a variety of music here, hence why some things didn’t make the cut.

Hmm I really beg to differ though, I think it had lost all entertainment value by then and doubt any of the public would remember it much. An empty warehouse with an organ setpiece at the end and some B&Q floodlights. You may as well have had the station outside.

When a day ticket to Phantasialand costs almost the same as Chessington, is there really any excuse for how poor Vampire got? Imagine if Wicker Man ended up like that in the future (and Vampire's preshow was originally better than Wicker Man's too) and people just shrugged. Is that really what guests shell out for at a Merlin park?

Also, we have so much more opportunity available now than Chessington did in 1990, it's strange that something 30 years ago has not been improved on. But I suppose it's a credit to how good the original music and station were for the time.