CharlieN

The American enthusiast phrase book is, 'it's hauling ass, those turns are insane, let's hope it can be RMCed in a few years'

Those measures are an utter utter nonsense.
 
They are taking the physical spacing aspect of the advice without thinking about the reason for it or why it is effective. A 2m physical gap does not create some magical barrier the virus can not cross, it is just a workable compromise to total isolation which makes infection from one person to another less likely in every day situations like passing or talking in the street. Once you start moving at speed through each others space a small distance like that becomes meaningless; anything containing the virus expelled by someone in front will be showered over someone sitting two or four or six rows behind, they may as well be sitting in each others lap.
 
It's so ineffective they may as well just fully open and accept the risk, or remain closed and properly mitigate the risk. Giving a false sense of safety is the worst possible thing to do.

It certainly makes sense from a return on investment point of view. If there is any sort of season to be had this year people will be queuing up to get in without much encouragement this year after missing out for so long, so the investment would be wasted. Holding this back until next year when hopefully things are back to some sort of normal should get people through the turnstiles again and give them a return.
 
I really hope it works for them.

The right decision even if it is the hardest decision. I feel for them but on the other hand, this is a long term investment. I'll be there 2021 to support them and we should all be there too. Just hope they can whether the storm (pun sort of intended) for another 12 months.

I don't buy the whole 'a park has to have themed areas to be a theme park'. If you work with that logic, then you have to call Efteling an "amusement park" instead of a "theme park", which does a great disservice to Efteling. These two terms aren't enough to encapsulate all types of parks in the world.
 
More importantly though, does it matter? Whether it's a theme park or an amusement park, their core purpose is to have rides which people will enjoy. Both of those types of parks will know that some rides need to have theming to enhance their enjoyment, whilst some rides don't need theming to enhance their enjoyment. So in my opinion, it doesn't matter whether a park is one or the other, they'll do what's right.
 
The likes of Swarm and Walking Dead are improved because of their theming. Stealth and Colossus probably wouldn't benefit much more if they had higher levels of theming. Sure, if Thorpe wanted to fully focus on being Disney/Phantasialand level of immersion they'd focus on rides which are improved when themed, but for a park like Thorpe, I really don't think it matters what they call themselves. 
 
 

I think the investment needs to be taken with a bit of context.
 
Thorpe do have a decent range of coasters for a park of their size. Not perfect, and in this day, not as varied as others, but still decent. Around 2014 (when planning for Ghost Train was in full swing), plenty of people were crying out for something different. And Thorpe needed a dark ride.
 
It was still a huge risk to opt for a dark ride over a coaster, and one that in hindsight really hasn't paid off. But at the same time, when this was announced and being constructed, the overwhelming majority thought it was a good idea.
 
The issue isn't that Thorpe didn't build a coaster, the issue is that they built the wrong dark ride. 

It is a grave shame the park didn't just build a freespin or a Raptor with that money. 
Also lets not forget Wildfire cost less than this. 
 

100% agree with this, such a shame as I expected great things from it. Now, it's just a case of waiting for it to be old enough to demolish (and pretend it never happened)

Prior to launch in 2016, the park drew up a rough contingency plan for what would happen if the VR totally failed. And I mean totally failed. As in they got to a point where using VR was a complete impossibility, and they *had* to get the ride open. It was a rough plan, and I doubt the park ever would have truly considered it, but it effectively made use of planted actors (who would become 'infected' by the gases and turn crazy), the screens near the top of the carriages to communicate a story and a more 'live' experience in generally. As I say, and as far as I understand, this was very much a quick and rough plan drawn up in case absolutely everything failed, but wasn't exactly considered as a serious option.
 
It would certainly be feasible for the park to implement something like this. It effectively just requires to hiring of extra actors and the writing of more scripts. Again though, I highly doubt the park actually would do this, especially given the feedback to the ride so far.
 
Ghost Train was meant to have more effects that did not make it into the ride. Leg ticklers I believe were bought but never installed, for example. The point early on in the process where the windows were meant to be screens is another example. These things are much harder to solve and introduce retrospectively too.
 
What does this means for Ghost Train's future though? I believe the Derren Brown IP contract is multiple years (6 I heard). Whether there's any break in the contract is anyone's guess. Obviously things like a global pandemic aren't top priorities to be talked about when drawing up contracts for IPs for rides. So it would be interesting to see what happens. But then, what do they do with the space? Do they totally gut it out and put something new inside? Transform the ride system into some form of immersive tunnel (which, with the ride system currently in place isn't impossible, but likely expensive)? Completely remove the whole thing? They *could* leave it SBNO and transform the inside for Fright Nights attractions, but again that's costly and also leaves a giant elephant in the room.
 
Another potential issue: could there be a negative public reaction to the theme of the ride? If you piece and twist it together, it's all about a respiratory thing causing illness. In this day and age, I could see some people trying to twist it...
 
In my opinion, it's very hard to see Ghost Train opening in the mid-term. Certainly not this year, even if the park reopens. If we work on the timeframe of no vaccine till autumn next year, it's hard to see it reopen next year. After that, the contract could be up.
 
There's the more global problems as well about what this means for VR in the entertainment and leisure industry in general. But also, what about 3D rides? It's less of a problem as they've been around a lot longer and cleaning them is easier. But I still reckon many people will feel less comfortable wearing them. And it does mean parks have to be more careful and thorough washing them (and I'm sure there's plenty of parks who aren't..). That's going to be an interesting step for the industry.
 
So yeah, tl;dr. I can't see Ghost Train reopening any time soon. A true reimagining of it will cost millions to do well. They're left with a giant elephant in the room which completely screws them up any way.

Anyone else thinking that DBGTROTD is going to be the big casualty on opening post Coronavirus? 
 
I can't envisage a time in the next few years when people are going to be happy sticking something over their face that some other sweaty punter has just removed? Considering it's an absolute dog in any case do we think they'll take it as an opportunity to out it out if it's misery in its current form and turn it into a VR free immersive tunnel, or just rip it out completely and put a proper ride in its place?

I think it is such a shame more isn’t made of looking at the suspended carriage. I don’t understand why they got Derren to pose from this angle when we never get to see if from there. Would be awesome to start off looking up and then going up the stairs.
 

 
 
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I first rode Derren Brown's Ghost Train in 2017. I've made my feelings clear about the very muddled story in this thread before, but I ultimately did find it a flawed but generally enjoyable ride. Not worth a long queue or the money spent on it, but it was fine.
 
Fast forward to Fright Nights 2019, and oh boy have my feelings changed.
 
The queue for the ride was advertised as a 50 minute wait. Ok, that's fairly long but it was Fright Nights and everything was busy. 60 minutes later we were still not in the batching area. In the 30 minutes that followed, we saw only 3 batch groups enter. One every 10 minutes! Really?! I know this ride isn't great with capacity, but I cannot understand operations being this bad.
 
The pre show was as boring and disconnected from the experience as usual, but at least it all worked. Once it ended we moved onto the next waiting area and waited. And waited. And waited. We were there for 5 minutes. Worsening the wait was that the room is lightly themed with no music (I thought IMA score made 90 mins of music, and yet it plays only in the queue, why?) and we were waiting with the worst actor / staff member they could find. This preemptively killed any momentum the pre show gave the experience.
 
Despite the lengthy wait, when we did move into the hanging carriage room we were hurried through to board. This room is probably the only decent bit of the ride and yet we barely got to experience it. Genius move Thorpe. Genius.
 
Once onboard we had VR segment one. It was fine, but very little happens really on reflection (it occurs to me that the whole VR segments contain 2 'ghosts' in total, which is ridiculously low).
 
After the VR segment we were asked to wait on the train for a bit. At this point we all sat in the awkward and silent carriage. No music, nothing. People around us muttered "is that it?" and "that was s***". 
 
We eventually moved into the abysmal middle section. There were no sound effects or music. We all wandered around an empty set of cages and then (would you believe it) we reached the end and waited for ages. In silence....again. 
 
Eventually we went into the 2nd VR segment and saw the final of the two 'ghosts' of the experience. The segment was fine.
 
Once over we went into the shop for the fake-out finally. We waited there for ages before anything (what a shocker). When it did begin we merely got a man in a t-shirt rather than a demon. Really?!
 
This ride was ok at first but now it is utterly abysmal. There is NO sense of theatrics at all anymore. In 2017 there was a serious effort to keep the pace going and maintain some story. There was an energy from the actors and the middle section was seemingly the glue that held it all together. Now there were awkward silences, confusion and waiting it was an embarrassment and I struggle to see how anyone enjoys it in it's current state (if anyone does I'd love to know why). Judging from the people in my train the public seem to hate it.

I have a simpler solution.
 
...DEMOLITION.

Second ever ride on the train for me today, first in its ROTD guise.
 
It's fair to say there have been improvements over the first effort.
- The sound is hugely better and isolating
- The graphics seem smoother, if just as low quality
- The second ride VR section is much better than playstation 1 apocalypse
- The post show incident gives the ride its only opportunity to provide an actual scare, and goes some way to delivering it
 
But it is nowhere near enough to save this utter turkey
- Throughput is minuscule, queuing is ssllllooooowwwww and not close to worth the reward of riding
- The staff approach is all over the place. Real aggressive introduction about phone use, not sure if that is supposed to be a 'character' or just a real obnoxious way to make a point?
- The second room 'pre-show' immediately prior to the train entrance is downright bizarre. A stumbling attempt to be jokey, bring someone from the front to the back, do nothing with them, clap them(?), bang a door, go through the door. WOT? A pre-boarding stall I imagine, but just in every way possible from pacing to storytelling to atmosphere to point, utterly wrong. 
- The 'middle-show' is immeasurably worse. The old concept of being in a tunnel with no obvious way out and simulate a train approaching was actually a really good idea poorly done. Walking into a dark room where nothing happens before being turned round to walk back out of it is a really bad idea poorly done. Getting on and off the train doesn't even make sense in the narrative any more.
- The second VR I can't quite get my head around. Augmented reality would have been hugely better rather than pretend augmented reality, but whatever. This breaks the fourth wall of suspension of belief the ride is asking us to make; the whole point seemed to be that the hyper reality of the simulation of being on a train would be the driver behind messing with your mind in that relate-able, mundane situation. You are now looking at people, like you, who are clearly on a theme park ride of a train, not an actual underground train. What am I supposed to do with this in the context of the narrative? 
- While we are on the second VR, the image quality as a whole is better than it was, but why is the main character we are supposed to scared of so poorly defined? For the most part it is an indistinguishable fuzzy blob floating around the screen about as menacingly as a rain cloud.
- The laboured situation and 'acting' to hold people in the post-show goes a long way to ruining an otherwise decent effect. They may as well put up a big flashing sign saying 'wait a mo, something else is going to happen'. There must be a better, more natural way.
 
Overall, there is no getting away from the fact that the whole thing is an ACTUAL TRAIN SIMULATOR. Not a rocket to the moon. Not a flight on an X wing. Not dive in a submarine. Not a time travelling jump in a Delorean. Why? I can get on a train, I don't need it simulated. I want fantasy. There is nothing fantastical about this Ghost Train.
 
I honestly do not think it is rescuable. It's sad, but the whole concept is so deeply flawed I really feel the best thing to do would be to rip it out and start again. At the moment it is just a very expensive way to damage your brand and reputation.

Playing along with the game, if you're an American there's a mix if you want to do the quality that Europe has to offer, the uniqueness of some attractions and then some weird European things. I'll try and avoid most hypers given to an American, they'll probably just be seen as 'smaller than our stuff'..
 
Quality Attractions
Taron, Phantasialand
Taiga, Linnanmaki
Untamed, Walibi Holland
Helix, Liseberg
Nemesis, Alton Towers
Lech Coaster, Legendia
Black Mamba, Phantasialand
Balder, Liseberg
Fluch von Novogrod, Hansa Park
Troy, Toverland
 
Don't think any of these need any explanation.
 
More Unique Attractions
Pulsar, Walibi Belgium. One opening in America this year (Covid-pending), but the original and damn good.
Lost Gravity, Walibi Holland. There's another one in Germany, but again, the original and damn good.
Vliegende Hollander (aka Flying Dutchman), Efteling. The perfect coaster to capture Efteling's charm, and everyone needs to experience Efteling's charm.
Van Helsing's Factory, Movie Park Germany. Not the best, but really damn good fun and - for an American - shows that size doesn't matter.
Karnan, Hansa Park. If you know, you know. If you don't, don't look into it.
Arthur, Europa Park. Not totally unique, but not in America, and like with Dutchman at Efteling, it captures Europa Park's charm, which should be experienced.
Juvelen, Djurs Sommerland. Again, not unique, but from what I hear, damn good fun and something different.
 
Weird European Attractions
K2, Karls-Erlebnis Dorf Elstal. This is just a really fun ride with a weird and wacky dark ride section which shows some of the weird surprises European parks can throw up.
Tranan, Skara Sommarland. World's only S&S Free Fly. Haven't done it, heard it's a bit naff, but looks quirky, and one to add to the list.
Rodelbaan, De Waarbeek. World's oldest steel coaster. If you're an American roller coaster person doing a trip with no limitations, you should chuck it in for the bragging rights if nothing else.

I reckon this is much more likely!

I reckon this is much more likely!

There's no way around it - coronavirus is going to affect our daily lives in one way or another. And with open season just around the corner, it remains to be seen how parks around the UK and the rest of the western wordl will cope and what measures they'll put in place, as well as how long it will be before Chinese parks (which have been closed for weeks already) begin to reopen. I figured it would be interesting to have a thread to track what's going on, and people's reactions...
 
Merlin Parks
The current stance across Merlin's UK parks and attractions is pretty simple: if you feel unwell don't come. If you have coronavirus-like symptoms when at the park, let staff know. Otherwise, come, and wash your hands regularly, with extra hand washing points available, and promises of an enhanced cleaning regime too.
 
Until the parks are open fully, we won't know what other measures they have in place, or how it will affect the parks.
 
Disneyland Paris
Disneyland Paris are currently open as normal, but have closed Single Rider Queues. The logic being that they believe less people would feel 100% comfortable sitting next to a stranger. It very much feels like a weak 'Look, we're doing something' rather than a bigger measure. A couple of maintenance have tested positive.
 
Efteling
Efteling have a FAQ about the virus. As of today, they have introduced a limit to the number of people that can be any ride's queue at any time - when that number is reached, they'll close the queue for a period of time until the number reduces. They're also encouraging people to keep space between each other in queues. On top of this, they have removed several tables and the like from busier areas to help keep distances between groups who are sitting down.
 
Efteling is open all year round, and they're currently in a quiet period, where some of their rides are closed for maintenance. All of the rides are scheduled to open at a similar time to when other parks open.
 
Toverland
Toverland are partially open at the moment, and introduced stronger cleaning regimes, including hourly disinfecting wipe-downs of all rides.
 
America
Most American parks are following American government advice, and have sent out emails of reassurance to passholders about them taking appropriate steps. Year-round parks like Disney and Universal remain open with little changes for now.
 
China
Disneyland Shanghai closed on 25th January. Whilst the park remains closed still now, some restaurants and entertainment offerings re-opened this week.
 
 
This is by no means a complete list, and I expect we'll see some updates from UK parks in the coming days after the government announces its Delay stage stance today. Feel free to add and discuss.
 
 

Think we need some more Top 10 variations.
 
Top 10 Theme Park Soundtracks:


10/  The Island Theme- Thorpe Park Resort
The direction of the park has been heavily  questionable over the last number of years, however the introduction of the main theme is one of the few better things that has arguably been introduced. I know this placement will be a mixed-bag to some, but I think the introduction of this music definitely gives the entrance area at least, more of a build up and atmosphere. It does beat the chart music indefinitely.
 
9/ Main Street USA- Disneyland Paris 
One of my most exciting theme park memories was visiting Disneyland Paris for the first time (5 years nearly already?), but nothing could’ve helped boost that feeling than the beautiful Main-street  soundtrack. Comprising a mixture of traditional songs and ones from shows/musicals, the playlist beautifully helps put together what must be one of the most impressive theme park entrances around.
 
N.B I believe the park use the mix from the original park now.

8/ Valhalla- Blackpool
Dramatic and forcefully attention grabbing, nothing pleases the ear more than listening to the main theme of Valhalla. The ride may not be operational for 2020, but least it’s soundtrack still boosts out from the nearby speakers.
 
7/ Droomvlucht- Efteling 
6/ Euromir- Europa Park
One of the weirdest (yet wonderful) pieces of mainstream theme park music to exist. The unique soundtrack greatly complimented the ride, whether it’s in the queue line or going up the lift of forever. It works perfectly!
 
5/ Fata Morgana- Efteling
Efteling stride with some truly magical pieces of music, but not many can overturn the wonders of the score of Fata Morgana. Meaning to be a mirage, the music perfectly blends amongst the many rich scenes of the attraction, whether that be the grand palace suite or town scenes within the ride. The attraction is essentially an Arabian take on Pirates Of The Caribbean, but that doesn’t take anything away from the ride. 
 
4/ Klugheim/Taron Soundtrack- Phantasialand 
PHANTASIALAND real,y know how to master mysterious and whimsical themes in their parks and the music really seems to hit the nail on the head there. What I like about the Klugheim theme is how the music is varied yet developed throughout the area giving enough balance to keep it interesting, whilst also entailing a strange yet uncharted vibe to the area.
 
3/ Phantom Manor- Disneyland Paris 
I am completely aware this is a variation and re-work of the original Hsunted Mansion soundtrack, but there is something just remarkable about this theme working. Whilst I’m yet to experience either of the American rides, the theme from the Paris definitely takes the music a step further by giving a deeper more meaningful and perhaps emotional content. This wraps the whole Frontier Land Story together rather nicely. 
 
2/ Chiapas Theme- Phantasialand 
I adore much of Phantasialand’s music, but the Chiapas theme tops all of it. Mysterious, upbeat and soothing are just some of the words you could use to describe the soundtrack. From it’s main theme to it’s wonderful (yet hilarious) disco room Varient. The Budapest orchestra and IMA score struck gold here!
 
 
1/ Europa Park suite, - Europa Park
This piece of music is honestly gorgeous, atmospheric, cinematic and makes for an amazing soundtrack. You know a piece of music is great when it gives you a positive vibe and always make you feel better after listening. 
 
Tried to give a variety of music here, hence why some things didn’t make the cut.

Looks cute compared to how it was the past couple years.
 
But lets not pretend this isnt tacky and in a different vein to the original
 

Been watching POV's of Disney's latest trackless dark ride, Runaway Railway. I have to say that it looks incerdible in terms of the immersion and really blending a 2D cartoon into reality (2-and-a-half D as some call it). The screens / projections are seamless and the whole experience is just magic from the moment you step through the blown hole in the screen to exiting out the other side. This is why Disney are number 1 in this industry by a mile.
It feels modern and up to date with technology yet classic & timeless, filled with nostalgia and instantly recognisable characters. I absolutely love it.
 
 

Got the opportunity to visit Galaxy's Edge and ride Hollywood Studios new D-ticket attraction Smugglers Run last week. Firstly, just an FYI, I like Star Wars, I like Disney and I like themed attractions. I was still cautious about this area. Disney are going down a road where the only thing that matters is IP based attractions. When they said at D23 that they plan to make the parks more 'Disney', it spells the end of original themed attractions such as Thunder Mountain or Expedition Everest or even cult classics like Country Bear Jamboree. When the only thing that matters is selling more customisable R2D2's, I sense problems in the future.
 
Anywho, my fears were mostly pushed aside as the area is impressive and has a very authentic Star Wars feel. Classic Star Wars ships litter the area, droids around every corner, Characters from the franchise roam the areas, we regularly saw Ray and Chewbacca walk into the Millennium Falcon. 
 
The ride itself is very fun. It takes on the guise of an interactive attraction where you take on the role of a pilot, a gunner or an engineer and your success at interacting with the controls dictates whether you have a successful mission or not.  There are six people to a 'pod' with two assigned to each role. For my first ride I was an engineer where I essentially fixed the ship whenever a pilot crashed it into a rock or a building or another structure. My second ride I was a gunner which involved me shooting enemy ships and a firing at a train to steal its cargo. My final two rides were as pilot where you either control up and down motion and hyperdrive or where you control left to right motion. 
 
 
Clearly, the pilot is the only role which has any baring on the story. As an engineer you have to just watch the action and press buttons every now and then depending on the skills of the pilot. You fire hypoons to steal cargo but if your pilot doesn't do the job properly, you can't do that often. The gunner just fires a lot and doesn't do much frankly. The pilot is the most interesting as the action on screen all revolves on how skilled you are. The pre-show doesn't really do a lot of explaining to be honest. You're given cards in batching which tell you your role and what you need to do but once you're strapped in that goes out the window. The two rides where I wasn't an engineer, the pilots had not one clue how to control the ship so were crashing left right and centre. This made the ride so much fun to be honest, some of the most fun I've had on a ride for ages.The ride vehicle bumps up and down like Star Tours and it feels completely out of control loved it. As a pilot, my fiancé and I were incredible. What can I say, I'm a natural. We had a high final score, stole two pieces of cargo and got the good ending. It made the ride less fun I can imagine, but it's good to have a ride that tries its hardest to make you the rider a key component.
 
A criticism I have is that the ride seems to struggle with motion. The screen had these very obvious skips in frames where the action was too fast so the screen would freeze for a second before carrying on. It happened a couple of times and doesn't detract as such, just seemed at odds with the seemless feel the area is going for. We queued a maximum of 40 minutes for each ride, it currently isn't operating fastpass+ as they feared the ride wouldn't be able to cope. That has opened it up to criticism that the ride isn't popular as it is failing to retain its initial opening 80 minute queue. Just to clarify here, the ride is a pure people eater, in the 1600 people per hour range. It was joyful to be able to move through its queue at speed. I fear once Fastpass becomes active, this thing will always be stupidly busy.  hate fastness, just saying.

 
The other issue is, like its Californian equivalent, it seems to have affected crowd levels. Attendance is down across the two resorts which has meant cuts have hit Magic Kingdom (the muppet show has gone completely and the celebration parade has gone from four to two). Hopefully this is just a blip and isn't related to Galaxy's Edge. The second attraction, Rise of the resistance' will provide a second phase launch for the area.

 
I enjoyed my rides and would say Smugglers Run is a great edition to Hollywood Studios.
 
 

Goodness me. Hyper Ride Roulette sounds like an outlandish excuse for ride downtime to me....
 
Another season I’ll pass on, I think.

Black Mirror is an odd one IP wise, in not having a set structure or regular characters. It could mean anything so surely is just a name above the door? If this had had any creative input from Charlie Brooker, which in reality is the only real consistent which makes Black Mirror Black Mirror, they would clearly have been shouting about it from the off as it would be actually meaningful to the marketing.

If it were The Goblin King, Sarah, Hoggle, Ludo and Sir Didimus I'd have been interested.