Theme Park Ranting and Raving

[MikeyT]

Seeing as it sparked some debate over in the rant thread, I've decided to make a topic about it. Feel free to rant, rave, whatever you want to discuss about the UK Theme Park Industry. _____________________________________Theme Park related rant/ thoughts follow:Right now, the UK theme park industry is making me feel sick. I feel like I've lost a lot of my passion for it over the last month. It's easy to target Merlin, but this is a much wider issue really, it's the whole country. I've become fed up with the budget tight and half- hearted attitudes of the theme park that the country has to offer.I do think our theme parks have the potential to be some of the best in Europe; with beautiful surroundings, space and councils who value their respective attractions and the other qualities they bring. Unforuntely though, some of these things just aren't being exploited to their full potential.I will use Merlin as an example here, purely because they have such a big monopoly now, it's difficult to put other theme parks in the same league as their's. Back in mid 2007, there was a lot of speculation about the Tussauds buy-out, which as we know, became Merlin Entertainments. When 2008 came, there was a wave of positivity, when the company (which a lot of people seem to forget, including myself at times, is still the same as Tussauds, with the exception of a couple people) increased budgets across the field, and basically gave the parks more freedom and coughed up the funding. They realized that they needed to start spending money.And they did, 2008 was a wonderful year, with Mutiny Bay at Alton along with its relaunch, and many other positive changes across all the old Tussauds theme parks. This was continued into 2009, which brought with it Saw, which despite the flack that it does get, is still one of the best rides in the country, though I suppose that's debatable!2010 has been a mixed bag for me though. Thorpe and Chessington, I've been quite pleased with. Wild Asia is a pretty good area, and even Thorpe has improved dramatically this year for me. But then I sit down and think. It's still not enough... when we're sitting here discussing a sound effect that's turned off, or perhaps they've painted a railing a different colour; we shouldn't have to worry aobut that. Things like this do make a difference, I've always said that the little things are just as important as the bigger things, but when those bigger things aren't there in the first place, it's just not the same. I do give credit to the parks, they do make the most of the very limited budget that they do get- even if it has increased, it's evidently still not enough.I hear of all these budget cuts over at Alton Towers, particularly the Entertainments department, it just saddens me. It makes me think of those dark years (2004-2007), are they coming back? The parks have come such a logn way since then, and all of a sudeden, it feels as though we're going backwards again.The UK just embarrasses me so much. We create sub- standard attractions a lot of the time, then we shoot ourselves in the foot by marketting them to make the sound like the best thing since sliced bread (I'm not actually even thinking aobut Thirteen here). It feels as though our parks don't listen to their guests. When they're getting reports that attractions are sub standard and dissapointing, then you do need to take a long look at yourself in the mirror and get your finger out.£15M for Thirteen this year, which, correct me if I'm wrong, is the biggest investment in the company's history. Which at best, is a below average coaster, that's saved by a fantastic ending. Putting this into perspective though, they're still not spending as much as they were back in the 90's. Of course, that bought us fantastic attractions such as Hex, Bubbleworks, Vampire and Nemesis. £10M for Nemesis in 1994... I dread to think how much it would all cost to build now. I don't know much about inflation, but surely it's got to be approaching £20M.I really do just sit here and think of all those fantastic parks out in Europe, and across the world, then I look back here, and sometimes hang my head in shame. Sorry for this hench post, I'm bored at work and once I started, I just couldn't stop talking. Thanks for reading.

[Benin]

^It's all true though...75% of the smaller parks in Europe are at least 10 times better than all of ours put together for the overall package...I'm only really excited about Chessie cos it seems that a lot of the management are actually really into the park and ways to improve it... Can only hope they decide to visit places like Plopsaland (for Anubis and Supersplash), Asterix (for the Madhouse), and Efteling (for the Duelling Woodies)...

[themeparkmad]

I actually read all of Mikey's post cause it is all true imo.I look at theme parks in America and see the potential that some of the parks in the UK could do but don't.I think I remember seeing some parks have the same type of rides, and they are cheaper?? - dont know how long ago this was but I remember it.I think Merlin make a lot of money as it is and they must be as they are offering to go back to Thorpe Park for free on certain dates. As well as things like Fastrack / Express Passes being increased in price - Surely they could losen their belts a bit!

[MikeyT]

I'll add one extra thing, and then I'm done.Mark made a great point in his awesome post (which has subsequently ended up in the Trash Can, bring it back! )- Chessington have done well with Wild Asia, but let's be honest with ourselves, it was a relatively cost effective investment in terms of them being able to do more or less what they wanted, with the budget provided. As soon as Chessington wants to invest in a major ride, which let's be honest, will happen sooner or later, then I'm not so sure it'll tick all the right boxes that WIld Asia does, on the most part.Unless Merlin want to surprise me... But then I look at Dark Forest, and I think otherwise.

[Mark9]

Here is the post I deleted purely cause.. well I dunno just didn't feel right.

I'm in complete agreement Mikey, I've been feeling this was ever since I got back from Europa Park and I genuinely feel that the only park that knows its place, achieves its own ambitions and never compromises its own target and thats Paultons Park.Frequently people use the excuse that the theme parks are there to make profit above entertaining its audience. I am so tired of that being used as an excuse for rides to be half done, for projects to never be completed and for theming to be turned off and never turned on again.The way I see it is that the rides are there to see the park through the future and beyond. They should never be seen as throwaway additions with a single purpose of getting guests into the park for two/three years. For instance Rita , no matter how good it is it will forever be in the way because Tussauds just wanted to chuck a ride in quickly. I don't think Merlin will reach that level. But what I am quite concerned about is that Saw/Th13teen don't really look finished as do some of the Legoland rides. Chessie got it easy this year, a few decent rethemes and a cheap ride have done the park wonders. Kobra does look good. But if they were to add something larger in scale I have my doubts it could ever reach its goals.And thats my main problem with the UK. Take Blackpool for instance. During the early 20'3/30's they were adding rollercoasters left, right and centre. Now 'a' days several rides are SBNO, their last major anything was a second hand rollercoaster from a park that the management had lost interest in and major new additions are fountains. Pretty fountains but not anything substansial that will bring in the punters.It's not as if I want parks to throw rides at a place either. Thorpe and Flamingoland have done that and both aren't really up to that high a standard. Thats why I like Paultons. It knows it's limits and targets its rides and themes perfectly. If only other parks would do the same. We will never have a ride of Europa, Disney or Universal standards. But there is no reason why we can't have a ride that pushes our countries boundaries. Because so far we are riding on the successes of very old rides now.

Something else I've also thought of. I've had this discussion with Marc quite a lot recently. Basiclaly I've been invited to the parks a few times since I've got back and I've never had any kind of inclination to visit. Even when the boyfriend said "fancy going to Alton Towers" I immediately said no. My reasoning is just that I know it cannot live up to how European parks treat their guests. Marc said in conversation that the guests in this country don't expect amazing theming, they just go for high rides and cheap thrills. Which is fine but don't we want to be totally immersed in an experience? Don't we want our expectations to be smashed and to be taken away from the real world for 7 hours and totally enthralled? Isn't that why we really go to theme parks?You tell me.

[Mer]

^^ Yeah it is!You can get high rides and cheap thrills on a KMG Booster at a traveller fun fair! :unsure:All this talk of European parks is making me want to back in time to Year 8 and re-live going to Phantasialand Or have the money to go to European parks, either way...

[James6]

^ To be honest, I'd love to be able to add to this, but everything said, is 100% true and exactly how I feel as well.Thanks for explaining it so well Mark and Mikey especially :unsure:Does anyone think we/someone should e-mail Merlin with all these points and let them know that large communities, the ones who understand the parks the best, feel this way?

[AdamY]

I totally agree with all that's been said. If it weren't for America and Europe, I'd have lost interest in theme parks long ago. We're just not in the same league any more. It honestly makes me sad to say that to have an experience which truly fits the name of theme park, you have to leave the UK.

[JoshC.]

Right, I am going to voice my opinion on the matter as well - even though I am a bit late for it. Very unusual for me, I'm going to be sticking up for the parks slightly; shall play devil's advocate a little. Ends up being a pretty fair account..Firstly, before I forget...

£15M for Thirteen this year, which, correct me if I'm wrong, is the biggest investment in the company's history. Which at best, is a below average coaster, that's saved by a fantastic ending. Putting this into perspective though, they're still not spending as much as they were back in the 90's. Of course, that bought us fantastic attractions such as Hex, Bubbleworks, Vampire and Nemesis. £10M for Nemesis in 1994... I dread to think how much it would all cost to build now. I don't know much about inflation, but surely it's got to be approaching £20M.

I'm not that good with economics really, but, if inflation means £10m for Nemesis in 1994 is equivalent to approx. £20m in 2010 (I do hope I've read that rightly), then that would that Th13teen, would only have been £7.5m in 1994? From the reviews I've heard in comparisons to Nemesis, that seems fair. Sorry if I've read that completely wrong though, please correct me if I've got the wrong end totally.Moving on, Thorpe and Chessie are on top form this season. I know I have many pessimistic attitudes towards the parks - especially Thorpe - but it is hard to say they are not doing very well. Both have had rebrands that suit their directions perfectly. For Thorpe, I may not be their biggest fan of the rebrand, but it is amazing. Their reliability has improved through the roof. For Chessie, they are ticking most of the boxes, and even making some new ones up along the way. Now, the negativity. Thorpe, it's the effects!! When I went today, I got a little dribble of water on me in Rumba Rapids. For a water ride, it is unacceptable. I haven't seen Saw's blades swing all year. Half the Bose speakers I see don't work. So on and so on. Chessie, haven't been as much, but I do think they need a spruce up. RMT for example.2010. Been a funny old year. Thorpe. They got Alive. I'm against the idea of a all year round maze and think it is a rubbish scare attraction. However, it suits the market. Also, notice how I say it fails at a scare attraction. For an attraction, it is amazing! With the right people, it is a great laugh! Chessie. Wild Asia. A new ride. It's about time most people would say. After countless years of the theme park stagnating and the zoo developing, something seems to have changed. As Mark and Mikey have brought up, whether a larger project will be as successful is unknown, but I'll give my views on that in a second. Also, the Wanyama Village bit. Very nice. Alton. Dark Forest. Again, the park's stagnation had to end sooner or later. They've got, from reviews I've heard, a pretty decent ride in the end with Th13teen. Also, a bit of Rita retheming shows they are putting effort in. Sonic Spinball. Nice new retheme and something that pleases guests. A pretty decent win in the end.So, where do I think everything's gone wrong? The marketing. Mikey said it - they make everything out to be the best thing since sliced bread. Of course, this is what marketing is meant to do usually. But it is because of this it fails. If Th13teen had been marketed as the family coaster it is, we'd be fine. If Saw had been marketed as "one of" the scariest rides or even Thorpe's most terrifying experience, we should have been fine (yes, more theming would have been good, but you can't have everything). But it is the struggle to make it seem the best and actually make it the best that we find ourselves fighting with Merlin about. Also, when it comes to fanboys, we're bound to nit pick. The GP probably have a different view to the park we do.In the end, I feel we're in a pickle. New rides need to be marketed more cleverly - rather than being 'the' best, they should be 'one of' the best; they should take a leaf out of supermarkets' books.. Then that way, they actually could put their money where there mouth is. Then, the park's can worry more about their own individual problems and hopefully seen them resolved - permanently.

[Fred]

Hmm the park arguement is an interesting one.I think, personally, that they're run much better and the parks are in a far better state than they were in tussauds years.Think about it, every single merlin brand (well, I cant remember about dungeons, but we'll ignore them for a second) has gone a complete rebranding.. going towards what they do best and succeeding in that field and making themselves look pretty as well.Alton Towers has one of the best entertainment lineup ever, its a shame that their budget has been slashed dramatically, but even still.. the amount of costume characters continually on park, especially in the morning rush is pretty cool.Finally, the whole coaster things.. the thing the parks include nowadays is marketing, paving, design and all that. £15 million includes thirteens like £3million or so marketing budget. The ride itself costs barely any of the overall cost.

[Kevin]

Greed is killing (or I could controversially say 'has killed') the british theme park and fun fair market.That's all to it really.

[Marc]

Does anyone think we/someone should e-mail Merlin with all these points and let them know that large communities, the ones who understand the parks the best, feel this way?

No, I dont. Because whilst I fully agree with what's being said, we are a tiny percentage of the guests who visits the park, I'm sure merlin are aware they could do more, and are aware that enthusiasts want more and will also be fully aware of what other parks across the globe are doing.

[Benin]

^Shame that smaller parks who are independently owned are making full great quality rides at the same time...Last year, Fluch von Novgorod, a partially indoor/outdoor coaster at a tiny park in Germany, unfinished and looked amazing, looks even better now they've finished it... Looks so much better than Saw...What Merlin need to do to show that they are willing to take risks if they want to beat Disney, which is their aim... And the only way they can beat Disney is by creating Disney-quality attractions... Or at least creating attractions that have a lasting quality and showing care and attention to everything about the park...Hell as was mentioned in Mark's Europa Park Report, we shouldn't be praising the parks for finally getting effects fixed, instead we should be in a situation where we should be going 'oh such and such effect was broken rather than working'...Sigh, shame Tussauds got exceptionally lazy... 10 years ago we got Hex and Tidal Wave, and since then nothing has come near beating them for the theme and look... Difference a decade makes...

[Marc]

I'm not disagreeing with that, atall, what I'm saying is would be silly to assume merlin dont know what other parks are doing, and what they could do.. I never once said Saw was the best..But compared to rides of late from Tussauds (Air, Rita, Stealth), Saw / Thirteen are big steps in the right direction I think.

[MikeyT]

Firstly, before I forget...I'm not that good with economics really, but, if inflation means £10m for Nemesis in 1994 is equivalent to approx. £20m in 2010 (I do hope I've read that rightly), then that would that Th13teen, would only have been £7.5m in 1994? From the reviews I've heard in comparisons to Nemesis, that seems fair. Sorry if I've read that completely wrong though, please correct me if I've got the wrong end totally.

When I said it must be approaching £20M- it was literally a figure that I pulled out of thin air. The reality is, I have absolutely no idea!

Alton Towers has one of the best entertainment lineup ever, its a shame that their budget has been slashed dramatically, but even still.. the amount of costume characters continually on park, especially in the morning rush is pretty cool.Finally, the whole coaster things.. the thing the parks include nowadays is marketing, paving, design and all that. £15 million includes thirteens like £3million or so marketing budget. The ride itself costs barely any of the overall cost.

I've always thought things like marketting, labour and landscaping were included in projects. I don't think it's anything new from the parks. I'm tempted to say that the £15M was also shared with the Dark Forest retheme as well. I don't know that though.This really is more than themeing and special effects. It's about the whole culture of how we do theme parks over here. We're just second best to other places in Europe. Of course Merlin are very sucessful, they have the biggest joint theme park attendance after Disney. Their mission is to become "global leader in location based entertainment" or something along those lines.They don't care about becoming best in terms of mind blowing attractions (well, of course they do to a certain extent, but will never cough up the cash to make a truly awesome attraction again), they care about becoming the best in terms of the amount of guests that attend their theme parks. The way Merlin seem to be doing that is literally buying attractions left, right and centre. In other words, money.I'm afraid it's going to take more than a few corporate rebrands to convince me that Merlin are willing to invest the money that their parks really deserve.

[Mark9]

Peter mentioned something about themed characters in the morning rush and saying theres is the best ever.... it is.. in the Merlin parks. I hate comparing to Europa but its very hard not to. Over there you won't just see the characters during the morning rush and never see them again, they have the themed characters coming round the restraunts during breakfast saying hello to the kids. This in itself is such a small detail but then you get into the park and you see groups of themed characters all over the park. I really despise the merlin themed character thing. When I operated Sea Dragons I watched Spike and Cinder come out to that little meet and greet under Fury. They honestly stand there and if no one comes after two minutes they go.. whats the point in that. When I went to Parque Warner in Madrid, the powerpuff girls chased us through Cartoon Network village to try and hug us. It's that kind of effort which is severly lacking in our parks. Our parks have women in costumes, in Europe the actors become the character.The way I see it is our parks only care about rides and attractions in their first year. Look at the way so many Merlin rides have deterioated. It's not exactly Merlins fault, Tussauds did a lot of the damage but Merlin so far haven't really rectified the rides a hell of a lot. The rebranding has worked but what I would love to see (and this is Chessington specific) is them really going to town with what is the closest park to any European attraction by throwing money at the place. Retheme Bubbleworks, refurbish Runaway Train, retrack Safari Skyway and actually show that the park is more then just the new stuff. Because really the old stuff is what is keeping our parks alive at the moment.

[Paul]

Because really the old stuff is what is keeping our parks alive at the moment.

Very, very true.

[JoshC.]

When I said it must be approaching £20M- it was literally a figure that I pulled out of thin air. The reality is, I have absolutely no idea!

Oh right, fair enough. :unsure:However, in theory, would my point still stand if we were take £20m for Nemesis nowadays?

[AdamY]

The way I see it is our parks only care about rides and attractions in their first year. Look at the way so many Merlin rides have deterioated. It's not exactly Merlins fault, Tussauds did a lot of the damage but Merlin so far haven't really rectified the rides a hell of a lot.

You're right. This is where I think Saw and Th13teen may prove to be the 'make or break' kinda thing - we can say to Merlin now ok, you have a fairly clean slate. So far new attractions have been better than those from the late Tussauds period, so that's a tick. We say they don't seem to be doing much on upkeep yet but as you say, damage is already done really. The true test will be if Saw and Th13teen are kept in tip top shape, we will see that from now on upkeep will be a priority even if upkeep of older stuff isn't possible. If Saw and Th13teen are left to rot, we'll know for sure they aren't committed. To be honest, for all we complain Saw isn't doing badly at the moment really. The area is still generally clean and tidy, the queue screens and audio still work perfectly, the queue shotguns still work, the station timer still ticks. If you compare this to say, X:\, it's winning already. If by the time Merlin are fully into the swing of the next major development the same can still be said, they'll get a pat on the back from me.

[A-Kid]

For a ride thats one year old I'd expect everything to be working. The blades have been dead for a few of my visits now. The audio in the internal Saw queue is nothing like it was in its first month. The ambient theme is gone from there which originally had a major effect on the feel of that tin walkway and the ride audio is out of sync. The cop car lights are dead. OK that was caused by something out of their control, but still. The sign lights are off. I became an enthusiast in the great years of Tussauds. The time we had Hex, Amity and Colossus as the new set of attractions. Was also the time where nearly everything at Thorpe looked grand (yeah once upon a time...). Quality has died right off and its noticable. Its all about profits now. Absolutley no quality. Ok its an organisation/ industry built around money making, but we have lost the experience of a theme park somewhere along the line. I feel the balance between revenue and experience have tipped. Which is a shame because now we can just watch every other park in the world take a great leap infront of the UK. Th13teen and Saw are both half arsed rides with no real quality thought it feels. Really. Both rides and theme's done on the cheapest method possible. Saw, a cheap and nasty eurofighter with a brand, so it was easy. Th13teen a cheap family mine train with a pretty building. Both worth around 6 million for the ride system (by itself). I can appreciate the fact that the SW6 project tryed something new. But, a mine train? Come on. Its not designed to do what you are trying. It had design flaws obviously with the first half and thus trims were added. And you can't rely on Marketing entirely to pull a thrill out the project. It will not have the value of say Nemesis (a quality product) down the line as a favourite ride. A Eurofighter is a family coaster. It isn't really designed to do everything a 13 mill B&M/Intamin would do ether. And its full of design faults. Those rides are evidence that they are trying to cut drastic corners, thinking they can do the same quality experince with the cheaper option. And nether have worked worked because they have problems afterwards. The buy-out by Merlin would have only effected the budgets and the finantial side of things. Possibly the mission of the company aswell. Its still mostly the same people as Tussauds. Merlin want to be a world leading entertainments company. They are going to need to open their wallets, stop being tight arses, and spend out on quality attractions if they want to top Disney. People in the UK almost expect our parks to be crap compared to say Disney or Universal from what I have heard listerning in on conversations. Heres the question Merlin. Why don't you take advantage of that attitude? We just typically find anything the UK do as "oh it will be crap because this is britain". It would take less messing about trying to shoe-horn a family ride as a thril ride. If you 'wow' people they will return and you will get good press naturally. WTF have I just blurted out again...

[tomathy]

On the topic of Saw - the ride, I went to thorpe park on saturday. The blades were working, the audio was fine on and off ride and the indoor brake runs affects (crossbows) were working properly as well. It was one of my better rides on it though, I have been on a few where the indoor section was just darkness so was pleasantly surprised when it was all working well.

[Marc]

For a ride thats one year old I'd expect everything to be working. The blades have been dead for a few of my visits now. The audio in the internal Saw queue is nothing like it was in its first month. The ambient theme is gone from there which originally had a major effect on the feel of that tin walkway and the ride audio is out of sync. The cop car lights are dead. OK that was caused by something out of their control, but still. The sign lights are off.

Confused about this! The blades are working now (Were today anyway) The audio is ok in the queue line, its not as loud as it was, but its much louder than it was at some point last year. Not sure what ambient theme you are talking about though, ive never heard an ambient theme in the inside part of the queue? Agree regarding out of sync audio, but thats all the effects not just audio (lights etc)Cop car lights I think are just blown, it was fixed last year and was working at the end of last season, I do hope they get them back working!

[Benin]

Cop car lights I think are just blown, it was fixed last year and was working at the end of last season, I do hope they get them back working!

This is the sort of things our parks need to sort out... Really simple effects being fixed as soon as possible, not when it suits them...

[Marc]

And thats somthing I agree with too, I think parks would benefit from having just one member of staff even dedicated to be doing things like this also.

[Dan9]

Not sure what ambient theme you are talking about though, ive never heard an ambient theme in the inside part of the queue?

The queue line music.