THE SWARM: Speculation & Theories

[AdamY]

Yes, and lots are my answers! If everyone thinks the helicopter turnaround is going to be so intense I wouldn't be surprised to see one after the inclined loop, but that's the only place I think one would make sense really.

[TraX]

Raptor rides best at the back and there IS a slight judder on the outside seats, but nothing painful or uncomfortable. Whilst the front is fun, I'd go for the back and on the trim front; you can best your life The Swarm has one or two of the buggers along the way..

[tomglazed]

Sorry I haven't looked at the plans in such depth.I understand that three trains or less can be a discussion point, but not how they would be stored or swapped?True, but it was pointed out that it didn't matter and it was great advertising.

It was a discussion on how they could be stored or swapped to discuss whether having a third train would be worth it or would even be able to be used. No one ever said whether the tank being fake or real didn't matter or not; I pointed out that Thorpe probably didn't envisage the tank creating that kind of "word of mouth" advertising.Does Raptor have any trims?

[AdamY]

^ Raptor has one, just on the downward run off the airtime hill.Going back a bit to the discussion about the aeroplane...

But my main issue is how they're going to erect it and keep it standing at the angle proposed.

I was just looking back over the plans, and they seem to have come up with a solution to this. The aircraft depicted is quad-engined (with two still 'above ground'), and if you look at the outermost one on the plans, it is offset downwards significantly from the wing rather than being mounted on it. It sits on the ground, and is connected to the wing with some bit of twisted metal. I guess this was done to provide the required support to the outermost ~9 metres which stick out past this point.Until this latest look at the plans for it, I hadn't really realised how bloody huge this thing will be... It's massive. The highest extent of the wing sticks out to nearly the height of Saw's station building, and the wing is 23.5 m long... Wow! Also hadn't noticed that the track flies between the two engines... Going to be very tight!Last thing... Unless Merlin Studios just have a funny way with words, this is going to be produced specially rather than bought scrap. In the "Key hazards and risks" part of the info panel it says...

Detailed design to be checked by competent specialists prior to manufacture and installation.

So if it's being 'manufactured', I guess we're not buying an old chunk of rust, possibly for safety or structural reasons.Including plan drawing to help reference my above points...

[tomglazed]

Looking at that now, and how the train will be flying under the wing and between the two engines, it will most likely be a job for Merlin Studios to do. I wouldn't have though any four engine aircraft in existence has enough space between the two engines on one wing for a wing rider train to fit through with the required safety envelope to go with it.On the topic of pyro, if they could commit to maintaining the effect, maybe flames coming from an engine on the wing or something like that.

[TPGG]

On the topic of pyro, if they could commit to maintaining the effect, maybe flames coming from an engine on the wing or something like that.

Pyros on any of the crashed vehicles would be awsome, or even smoke machines, but I think flames would create an atmosphere suggesting that the crashes were recent and would therefore be more effective.

[javs]

OK, so coming from a pilot, it would be far cheaper to make a mock up than buy a wing and two engine nacelles. I say nacelles as all of the engines mechanical parts are recycled, as is the aluminium and steel used for the wings. So if they go for the cheaper option, then this will be a mock up.

[Sidders]

^ Raptor has one, just on the downward run off the airtime hill.

My guess is The Swarm's will be on the exit of the Zero-G roll, and possibly another on the exit of the inclined loop.

Going back a bit to the discussion about the aeroplane...I was just looking back over the plans, and they seem to have come up with a solution to this. The aircraft depicted is quad-engined (with two still 'above ground'), and if you look at the outermost one on the plans, it is offset downwards significantly from the wing rather than being mounted on it. It sits on the ground, and is connected to the wing with some bit of twisted metal. I guess this was done to provide the required support to the outermost ~9 metres which stick out past this point.Last thing... Unless Merlin Studios just have a funny way with words, this is going to be produced specially rather than bought scrap. In the "Key hazards and risks" part of the info panel it says...

Detailed design to be checked by competent specialists prior to manufacture and installation.

Thanks for clearing that up Adam. After asking about it, I did some research myself and after also being quite shocked at the scale of the plane, I figured that the "twisted metal" from the detached engine would act as a support for the wing, but well done on delving further and finding that quote from the section the majority of us would simply skip. It is very interesting that Merlin are constructing the plane to their own specifications as opposed to buying a cheap skeleton and wedging it in the ground. It's going to be one helluva tight fit through that gap between the engines. I did a bit of searching myself and I found this video about the construction and technical specifications of Raptor:

Forgive the Italian man, but there are subtitles and at 1:15 you can see that he specifies that Raptor's trains weigh 18,000kg, are 14 metres in length and 6.5 metres in width, so we can assume the same width (at least) for The Swarm. Looking at the same plans that Adam posted, we can see that the engines will be 3.1m in height and width, meaning that it will indeed be a very tight squeeze for the train. I did some ratio calculations, and worked out that the gap between the engines is 6.8m. Somewhere along my line of calculations I appear to have made a mistake because that surely wouldn't be allowed?

[tomglazed]

It probably wouldn't be. I'm not sure what the standard safety envelope for a rollercoaster train is but the trains itself I would have thought wouldn't fit through a gap between a 747, A340 or any other double engined wing.

[AdamY]

Sidders, you can't have gone wrong because I just double checked using the height scale on the side of the plan and came out with 6.85m so I think you're bang on. This would, seemingly, leave a reach envelope of just 15 cm each side of the train at 6.8m. The only thing I can think is that either our little Italian friend was rounding and just gave an approximation, or that figure includes the reach envelope. On one of the pieces of concept art for Raptor which was included in one of the videos you could see the envelope drawn on a plan of the tree near miss element, but I don't think it'd be possible to get a high enough resolution to read what that was.Edit: This was it:Turns out it didn't have figures on it anyway. What it does show though, is that the reach envelope is not just 15cm. Unless... Thorpe could be planning to put those arm covers on the side of the restraints on the outermost seats, like on Green Lantern and Superman Escape From Krypton at Magic Mountain, which prevent any arms reaching out of the train. Those would mean the envelope need only literally fit the train and no more.

[Sidders]

I hope they don't add arm covers. One of the best things about Raptor (so I've read) is that the restraints are so roomy around the arm/upper chest area.

[tomglazed]

Is there a picture of these arm covers? Don't think I've seen these before Either way they definitely sound like they would hamper the feeling vulnerability being so open.

[AdamY]

You can kinda see Superman's here:Photo from RCDB here.And Lantern's here (the green things)...Photo from TPR here.

[javs]

So stating the obvious, these are not B&M, so are there any B&M examples, or is this just more wild speculation?

[AdamY]

Pure conjecture on my part... B&M have never used them before, I was just suggesting it as a possibility.

[Mark9]

Pure conjecture on my part... B&M have never used them before, I was just suggesting it as a possibility.

Well knowing B&M's history with rides that get very close to each other, I've no doubt that they and Thorpe are callaborating on how to create the plane effect and how to get the train through safely. It should be a very impressive effect once pulled off though. There shouldn't be a need for arm plates, afterall Merlin have already got trains through tight squeezes on Raptor.

[jom222]

if they make the gap too big and will look like it is a fake.

[Benin]

if they make the gap too big and will look like it is a fake.

Proof?Look at the last inversion of Raptor... It has 3/4 close encounteres with scenery... There will be NO arm guards as both Merlin and B&M will know what the reach envelope will be, and considering past experiences, there will be no worry...The idea of the gap being too large and it hence looking fake? Is beyond me... Silly point indeed...

[javs]

So the engines on a Boeing 707 are about 20ft apart. Even if Merlin go for 25ft which is about 7m, would that not be enough? Just to put that in perspective, a 747's engines are about 30ft/8m apart.

[pluk]

Proof?... The idea of the gap being too large and it hence looking fake? Is beyond me... Silly point indeed...

How precisely do you propose a person proves how exaggerations of scale and deviation from the norm alters their own perception of how real something looks?! (now that IS a silly point indeed!!).Too be fair, it would look kinda odd if they had to stick one of the engines out near the tip of the wing to give the clearance. We all know roughly what a plane wing should look like and to deviate well beyond the realms of reality would spoil the point of the effect. Not really that much of a silly point. I think it's gonna look pretty awesome though and would suggest the reason the design includes the outer engine broken and falling away has been done precisely to accommodate the size of the train without making the wing/engine proportions look all weird. Praying for ride sequenced engine fire effects. Mmmmmm, pyrotechnics.

[Fred]

Well knowing B&M's history with rides that get very close to each other, I've no doubt that they and Thorpe are callaborating on how to create the plane effect and how to get the train through safely.

I wonder if it's just got that "lets hope they're not stupid" auror about it - such as sticking your arm out on nemesis on the left hand side as you go over the station...

[Sidders]

It'd certainly be nice, wouldn't it? That they'd actually still think about creating that extra bit of thrilling danger in what is after all, meant to be a "thrill ride", however Nemesis was built in 1994 and was one of the first times a rollercoaster differed from the standard train and coaster design. Whilst The Swarm's wing-rider design is still in it's early stages, H&S would have a field-day if anything like that was tried in this day and age. In that sense, it's always struck me peculiar when park's market rides as "the most dangerous" or "the most scary" when in comparison to their more feral, wooden cousins from 50 odd years back, they're tamer than ever.BUT YEAH GO SWARM.

[Dodge2002]

Oh wow those arm gaurds look really stupid and really uncomfortable. I hope they don't use them.

[AdamY]

I really doubt they will, even though I brought them up.

[Sidders]

Adam's right, B&M and Merlin have a good relationship and will most likely work around trying to fit the train through with ease and room to spare. I'm pretty sure though, as long as nothing is drastically changed to the point where the construction looks visually dissimilar to the plans, that they can change a few measurements if it means guests aren't going to lose an arm, so nothing to worry about.