Disabled Queuing Rules

[JoshC.]

Whilst no actual leaflet with all this year's info has been produced, it seems new rulings are on the website:http://www.thorpepark.com/plan-your-visit/disabled-guide.aspxNear the bottom, where it's got 'Helpers / Companions', we've got this:"Only one helper per disabled guest can use the access pass on any of our THORPE PARK rides and attractions."The entire section seems to be written as if there can only be 1 helper on a ride as well. Under Ride Access higher up, it says something about for safety reasons about the number of disabled guests, blah blah blah, you may have to divide into smaller groups - which is impossible if there's only 2 people, which could mean that there's a mistake made somewhere. Personally though, if they are limiting it to one helper per disabled guest, I think it's pretty stupid!So yeah, d'you think it is being limited to 1 person per disabled guest, or not?

[Altitude]

So they only empty one pen on one ride? No, the plural of pen is pens and you're trying to twist my words however you can to get your way. You're saying you didn't call me ignorant? You literally typed it and I quoted it so that's quite funny isn't it! You also call me a narrow selfish git. Again, funny considering you don't know me. You're sharing these beautiful stories about how you help the world and it's troubles by giving up seats for people...

 

Yeah, I get it. I do it too, as do most people, and they don't see themselves as the second coming of Jesus. I disagree with what people are saying, I've suggested alternative methods however they have all been ignored because people disagree with my previous statement. 

[Tom]

You also call me a narrow selfish git. Again, funny considering you don't know me

No, he insinuated that you might think he is

Everyone needs to stop looking for personal attacks in these posts

[Altitude]

I'm no saint, far from it, I'm just old enough to know there's more to life than being a narrow minded selfish git (although Altitude may disagree lol).

 

No Tommy, I think everyone needs to read properly to see the personal attacks. 

[Benin]

So they only empty one pen on one ride? No, the plural of pen is pens and you're trying to twist my words however you can to get your way. You're saying you didn't call me ignorant? You literally typed it and I quoted it so that's quite funny isn't it!

 

That's actually exactly what he said though in the post you quoted...

 

 

The RAP works like Reserve and Ride, you walk up to the ride exit, show them your wristband and access card, they then shout across to the operator on the other side who closes off one of the cattle pens (you don't get a choice), you then wait, if someone was already in the 'pen', they go first, then you go on the next rain, depending how busy the station is, you can wait up to 10 minutes, when you get on, they mark your card with the queue time displayed on the boards outside (there is a repeater in some control boxes), you then cannot use the ride access pass again until that time is up.

 

"One of the cattle pens", I.e. a singular batching row in the ride station is blocked off to allow disabled riders easy access to the attraction in question...

 

Perhaps yes, EVERYONE needs to read posts properly before taking what suits their side of the argument...

[Ian-S]

Oh dear Altitude, it seem that no matter how clear I try to make things, you will just see what you want to see rather than what is actually said/written.

If I was to be inclined to personally attack you, nobody here would be in any doubt over my motives. I am very interested to hear of your alternative methods for the RAP, but please drop the 'every post of his contains hidden personal attacks on me' attitude as this simply isn't the case, if you're going to continue to take everything anybody posts that is in disagreement to your view as containing a personal attack directed solely at you, then this isn't going to be a pleasant experience for any of us.

I could for example take deep offence at you comparing me to Jesus (but it's more amusing for an athiest to be compared to Jesus then anything else), but I don't.

[Altitude]

So you're saying you haven't written any insults? Oh please, you called me a git and now you're trying to retract it?

 

Also Benin, what I'm saying is this...

 

He originally wrote about how they close off one pen per ride. When I then quoted him on that, he said they only close one per ride, which I never disagreed with. He twisted what I was saying to make it look like I was wrong? I said "they close pens for rides" not "they close the entire queue for rides". 

 

Christ this is ridiculous all I said was I disagree and now some people are calling me a git, trying to look like an amazing person and all that. Don't tell me to read your posts again to get the message because if my eyes see any more bullish*t I think I might go blind.

[Ian-S]

*sigh*

[Altitude]

Sigh all you want, if you're going to insult me be man enough to admit it?

Makes you look just as foolish as me.

[paige]

The thing with all this is that, regardless of whether it's a physical or a mental condition, people would handle or respond to it differently. For instance, I've found myself on crutches a number of times and have generally struggled, whilst a few weeks ago a friend found herself on crutches and managed perfectly well. Now, we both were entitled to the same thing that the school will offer you, yet we utilised different things to fit our personal needs, despite us having what aome may regard as the same issue.

My point is, such a thing shouldn't be determined by and based on whether it's physical or mental, but based on the individual and their needs.

[Ryan]

The thing with all this is that, regardless of whether it's a physical or a mental condition, people would handle or respond to it differently. For instance, I've found myself on crutches a number of times and have generally struggled, whilst a few weeks ago a friend found herself on crutches and managed perfectly well. Now, we both were entitled to the same thing that the school will offer you, yet we utilised different things to fit our personal needs, despite us having what aome may regard as the same issue.

My point is, such a thing shouldn't be determined by and based on whether it's physical or mental, but based on the individual and their needs.

 

Stop posting such common sense.

[Altitude]

But Ryan, yesterday you were arguing both mental illnesses and physical disabilities should be treated the same in the queueing system, why the sudden change?

 

Not that I disagree with Paige.

[Benin]

The current RAP works, that's the thing...

 

Be it mental or physical, the only real issue the park has to consider is are the guests able to withstand an extended period of queuing in confined spaces... Indeed, the only parks that ignore this really are Disney, and even then that's only by forcing wheelchairs/mobility scooters into the normal queue, I believe that they also do a similar system for those who cannot queue one way or another...

 

Altitude, some of your posts on Page 5 are this:

 

 

Hate to sound rude because I'm not trying to be, but if you can't wait in a queue because of ADHD, can't you just distract yourself? I understand if you have anxiety though.

 

 

Again I doubt anyone will agree with me here, but I think everyone should queue equally (just in different ways).

 

When I was at Wicksteed years and years ago, I was queuing for those jumping boat things in the pond. There was an autistic child behind us in the queue who kept on swearing loudly, crying and shouting at his mum because he want to "go to the front" and not queue. I know I don't have autism so I don't fully understand it, but I personally don't think he should be able to get on a ride faster than me because he is impatient and doesn't want to wait. As for ADHD, why should someone get to go on more rides than me just because their brain lining is thinner and they feel like they will get agitated stood waiting. Maybe they could have a virtual queue on the major rides so that you can book a place and wait elsewhere? Oh wait, they do! I know the park plan to use R&R for all guests, but it could work for just disabled guests.

 

That goes for physically disabled guests too in my opinion. If you're in a wheelchair, I don't think you should be able to skip queues. They're the same as us and I'm sure 99% of wheelchair users are probably just as patient as us too. If they can't negotiate the tight queue lines (which I completely understand) then a virtual queue (that lasts just as long as the real queue) would work, surely?

 

Another example is my mother. Anxiety runs in my family and she finds it hard to queue in cattlepen queues. A few years back we all wanted to go on Loggers Leap, however the queue was fairly long and my mum panicked. We dealt with it by simply asking if she could wait at the edge of the station/exit, and stand there until me, my brother and my dad got through the queue! None of the staff minded and it meant we could all enjoy the ride without skipping queues or making others wait!

 

Anyway that's just my opinion. 

 

I think you need to look at how you've just essentially said that comment about those with ADHD about being able to "just distract themselves", it's comments like that that make you ignorant, similarly for those in wheelchairs...

 

That is what paints you as the bad guy here...

 

And Ian, you're not helping the matter either, the sigh post was utterly pointless and just there to fan the flames, if you have nothing to say, then it's not worth posting...

[Ian-S]

Sigh all you want, if you're going to insult me be man enough to admit it?

Makes you look just as foolish as me.

As I said:

 

If I was to be inclined to personally attack you, nobody here would be in any doubt over my motives.

Now can we get back to your ideas for improving the RAP system?

Edit: my sigh post was of frustration at everything I say being ignored, in other words 'there's no point replying further because I'd just be repeating myself'.

[Altitude]

Benin, how is the second post you've quoted bad? The first one I should have worded better, yes, but I'm not ignorant to ADHD. Autism is a different matter, however considering ADHD is an "illness" that is loosing credibility in recent years, I don't think it's on the same level as Autism or Anxiety. I know wheelchair users don't skip the queues exactly, but what I'm saying is that the same system, in my opinion, doesn't work for everyone.

 

And Ian, you called me a git and now you're denying it. How mature of you.

[Benin]

The wheelchair comments in the second post are pretty ignorant, that's why I posted it up...

 

Also this line:

 

 

As for ADHD, why should someone get to go on more rides than me just because their brain lining is thinner and they feel like they will get agitated stood waiting

 

It does reek of absolute ignorance and a general dismissive tone towards those unfortunate to have it...

 

At the end of the day it's still a mental illness, and to refer to Paige's post, people act differently with whatever might be wrong with them, those people who tend to have the lighter end of the spectrum don't usually use the RAP system, but there should always be a system in place for those people who might not be able to withstand the queue, and that's exactly the role of the RAP...

[Altitude]

I agree that is what the RAP is for, never disagreed with that. Reading the posts from earlier, I apologise that does come across as ignorant. Everything I have said to Ian, however,  I do not apologise for and will not take back. 

[Ian-S]

I'm going to take Benin's advise and just not reply anymore to this thread, if others think I called you ignorant, arrogant or a narrow minded git then yes I'd apologise, but more than one person understood what I was saying so I'll just call it day now.

If you do decide to post your ideas about how to improve the system then I may pop back in, but it's probably best I don't bother replying anymore.

[Ryan]

But Ryan, yesterday you were arguing both mental illnesses and physical disabilities should be treated the same in the queueing system, why the sudden change?

 

Not that I disagree with Paige.

Yes they should be treated the same, in the same system, please try and understand that's the point I'm making. What I agree with in Paige's post was that not everyone will feel like they need the pass, some people can cope without it.

[Altitude]

Ah ok, well I did misunderstand your point then. I apologise Ryan. 

 

I'm going to take Benin's advise and just not reply anymore to this thread, if others think I called you ignorant, arrogant or a narrow minded git then yes I'd apologise, but more than one person understood what I was saying so I'll just call it day now.

If you do decide to post your ideas about how to improve the system then I may pop back in, but it's probably best I don't bother replying anymore.

 

Thanks for no longer replying, makes me life easier. 

 

If you don't think you called me ignorant, arrogant or a narrow minded git, take the time to read your own posts and get back to me with that apology.

[Ian-S]

Sorry all but I'll go when this is settled.

Why don't you quote the relevant posts to me Altitude so that we can discuss where I called you all those things? Or better still stop baiting and trolling me to reply in order to defend myself, I didn't call you any of the things you think I did, even others can see that.

[Altitude]

This is the kind of ignorance that makes disabled people feel like a burden on society, nobody said anything about the pens being emptied.

 

 

I'm just old enough to know there's more to life than being a narrow minded selfish git (although Altitude may disagree lol).

 

There you go. It's settled.

[paige]

I don't think he was calling you ignorant, but rather your comment. I also believe that Ian was saying thay you probably don't think that he knows there's more to life than being a 'narrow minded selfish git'.

That's how I interpret them atleast, but I could see how it could be misconstrued.

[Ian-S]

The first one is a generalisation as to the opinion you expressed as being similar to those expressed by the majority of people, who in turn make the disabled feel a burden, it is not saying you are ignorant, if I wanted to say that, I would have said, you are ignorant.

Ignorant means lacking in knowledge, it is not a term used to create offence, I'm not a brain surgeon so a brain surgeon would be well within their rights to call me ignorant of the procedures of brain surgery, and he would be absolutely correct in his assumption but it's not something I'd get offended at, he's 100‰ correct. If we were to get really technical, then yes, I used the term to describe your comments which were similar to those reflected by others, but this should also be taken into the context in which it was used, you had expressed a lot of opinions as to how the RAP system works and said some rather nasty and condesending things about people with mental illness (paraphrasing you said why should a person with ADHD get to the front of the queue because their brain lining is thin and they a impatient, they should find something to do to occupy themselves instead of jumping the queue etc.), so in a way, saying your views exhibited ignorance, was absolutely correct, plus I am not the only one to say this about your comments, so I'm not sure why you have singled me out as the perpetrator.

There is a difference between saying someone's opinion on a particular subject is a bit ignorant or shows ignorance and saying that they are an ignorant person as a whole, I said the former and this is very different to saying you are an ignorant person totally.

The second one I'm totally lost as to how you think that I am saying you are a narrow minded git, first off the comment wasn't even direced at you, it was in answer to toofpik's question about whether I would or have given up my seat for an able bodied person, at no time did I say, Altitude is an ignorant narrow minded git, now if I'd have said that, you'd be every right to get upset over it, but that's not what I said.

What I said was that I am old enough to know there's more to life than being a narrow minded git like the other person in the queue who had told the girls to f*** off just because they selfishly wanted to ride that exact train instead of waiting 30 seconds, the final comment was a bit of humour to the effect of saying 'but given the conversation of the last few pages, Altitude may well disagree and think that I am a narrow minded git'.

At no time did I call you arrogant either, I don't even think anybody in the thread has even used the word other than yourself.

I hope we can now put this behind and move on, if you still think I called you an ignorant, arrogant narrow minded selfish git (or whatever it was), then there's nothing I or anybody else can say that will convince you otherwise.

Now, again, can we please hear your ideas for making the RAP system better?

[Coaster]

An argument on TPM...

...and it's nothing to do with me! 

 

My opinion is that it doesn't matter whether people have a physical or mental disability, if they cannot queue then that's that.

[pluk]

if someone does get the wristband, it still doesn't gain them anything over a normal member of the public who has queued, because they cannot use the wristband again for the length of time that they would have queued for anyway, so I simple don't understand how, considering how many first hand experiences of the system have been conveyed to you in this thread, you still consider that it's some sort of queue jumping facility that gives everybody instant access.

 

The abuse comes when someone has the band who doesn't need it and can queue, they use the pass then while they wait for their next pass use to be allowed they queue in a normal queue. They are then effectively queuing for two rides at once and will pretty much get twice as much done as a person not using it. It obviously can't really be abused by people who are genuinely unable to queue!

 

It really doesn't take long at a park to notice a not unsubstantial amount of people abusing it in exactly this way.