JoshC.

Back to being serious now... This is an excellent point. Also slightly disappointing if it does end up being true; as has been discussed previously, a whole new land with support rides, shop(s), restaurant(s), space for FN / events, etc etc is really what would hammer this home. Optimistically (and perhaps foolishly), I guess there's still plenty of hope that this could be more, but the main focus of the consultation is the coaster. This differs from Chessington in some sense: they were expanding into a new part of the park, and so the whole land needed consultation. Being an existing part of the park, maybe it's only the coaster that needs consultation (say, because of size or noise), and anything else is fairly standard? If you were to cycle back 3-4 years ago, people were pretty confident we were getting a coaster in 2020. That obviously never happened. Go back 7-8 years people were confident we were getting a coaster in 2015/16. Whilst there have been rumours for a while, there's been nothing concrete to suggest we should expect anything to come. That's part of the reason why people are surprised. The other part of it is just excitement I think. There is nothing to suggest what the track length could be. The 750 (well 850) number comes from MTDPs. In the past, the park submitted Mid Term Development Plans (MTDP) to the local council. This would outline roughly what they were considering installing over a set period of time, and some restrictions they would stick within. In some ways, this served as a consultation period and people could also give feedback. Once an MTDP is approved, if the park submit an application which meets all those restrictions, the process is a bit quicker and easier for both parties. The last MTDP the park submitted was back in 2010, and was valid up to and including 2016. In that MTDP, the park stated they would build roller coasters which would not exceed 50m in height and not exceed 850m in length. This was simply because the ideas they had for Swarm (and loose ideas for whatever might have come after) were not going to exceed those restrictions. Why say more when you don't need to. The details in that MTDP, as I say, were only valid up to 2016. At this point, any roller coaster could have any height, length, etc (within reason of course). This is one of the things the consultation will outline I expect. In terms of 750m being the balance between ride experience, throughput and maintenance - I've never heard anything to suggest that is their school of thought. It might be a happy coincidence, but I don't expect that's their hard and fast process. And even if it was, the last time the park installed a coaster was almost 10 years ago - things may have changed.

Port Aventura are getting a La Liga land. Thorpe to get a Premier League land confirmed?

The "Winds in the east..." is a quote from a Mary Poppins song. Clearly that's the IP we're getting... I jest of course. John is pretty meticulous and has his finger on the pulse when it comes to the enthusiast community. So I wouldn't be surprised if this is related to the going ons this weekend, even if it's just an acknowledgement of things happening. Equally though, it could mean absolutely nothing and be completely unrelated. If there is some relation, I'd be surprised if the choice of words or gifs or whatever is an indication of what's to come. tbh, if I was in his shoes, I'd probably post a few hints that lead people down the complete wrong path, just for the laughs. Though that's probably the one of many reasons why I don't work for Merlin Magic Making.

Could be from a very crude numbers point of view I guess: "We spend £x on a roller coaster and get back £y. We spend £(x/10) on something else and get back more than £(y/10). So 10 something elses gives more than one coaster, so why get a coaster when we can get 10 something elses?" I assume it wasn't quite that simple, but you get the gist. It wouldn't surprise me if that was the loose logic tbh In other news, here's TPM's news update nicely summarising everything: https://thorpeparkmania.co.uk/news/28-11-2021/Consultations+to+Occur+for+a+New+Roller+Coaster!

Any chance of you being that annoying friend who asks for a photo of the reverse of the leaflet too?

https://www.thorpepark-consultation.com/ 👀

Which attraction?

Blackpool's situation was arguably very different. Prior to 1994, they had a collection of old woodies and a couple of mid-range thrill coasters. Perhaps their most thrilling ride at the time was Revolution. The introduction of Big One was a marked step up. It was meant to be something which dwarfed the rest of the park, but not overshadow them. (Realise now my wording in previous post could have been better). Big One was the 'extreme, large scale, big boy' ride. The other rides were thrilling and fun, but could easily be said to be a level below Big One. At Thorpe, you have Colossus, Inferno, Stealth, Saw and Swarm. A quintet of big, extreme rides. You can certainly argue amongst those there's some which are 'bigger'/'more intense'/'more extreme' than the others, but they all have that 'large scale, big boy' ride aura. So creating a ride that is physically bigger than all of them could create a suggestion that it's a "step up" from all of them, especially in a park as small as Thorpe where it's easy to compare everything. It doesn't rule out a hyper. And I'm sure there's plenty of parks, including Blackpool, who have come to this hurdle and tackled it one way or another. But it's certainly something that needs to be carefully considered if one was to come, both from a design and marketing perspective.

When Stealth opened, it was marketed as Europe's highest and fastest launch coaster. That's a "Merlin" claim, and stronger than many of their recent ones. They could also have gone down "Europe's most intense launch" or "One of the world's most intense launches" routes to add to it. They could have made it work. The last MTDP stated any coasters built under those restrictions would not exceed 850m. The thing is, since it is (well) out of date, it means nothing. If the park wasn't to build longer, they can. The only reason for giving a number is because the park had loose enough plans that they didn't expect to build a coaster longer than 850m, so why would they say they would. There's no restriction on the park saying they can't exceed a set length with a coaster. As for height, it's true they had to be more careful and rigorous with Stealth. And they had carefully placed high points for Swarm and any potential ride on the island behind Stealth. But again, there is no specific restriction on how high they can build within reason. I think their max height because of Heathrow is around 500ft, but something even close to that size is unrealistic anyway. So a hyper isn't impossible. Of course, a hyper coaster raises many issues... the main one being how would you install one without dwarfing the rest of the park? Stealth works because of its location and minimal structure. Would, say, a 250ft lift hill plus many airtime hills greater than 100ft in height just put everything else to shame in perspective? Possibly.

Genuine question: How was Tomb Blaster previously blocked off during Winter? Was it just a bin in front of the entrance or something similar? Whilst it's different, this is not evidence that Forbidden Tomb / Terror Tomb / 5th Dimension is returning. And my earlier point still stands, if one of those names is re-introduced, I see no reason to expect any resulting ride experience changes to be any good.

The reason I mentioned Chessington is because that's where the discussion has been focused, due to Seastorm's early closure and rumours around Rocky being harvested for it. The rides are similar enough that one would imagine that there could be similar ride parts between them. Of course, Merlin's Challenge could also be suitable. Ultimately though, even if Rocky has indeed gone and is being scrapped, it's also fair to wonder if it's even worth harvesting its parts for another ride. It's impossible to answer your question on if you should believe it without you giving the source. If the source is, say, the Head of Engineering from Chessington, then it's something you probably should believe. If the source is CheekyChessingtonChannel on Youtube with 5 subscribers and 2 grainy POV videos of Dragon's Fury and Vampire, maybe not. Based on the context, I'm going to assume the source is Chessington Buzz (given their recent speculation post about Pirates Cove). That's certainly a more reliable source than many others around. But it doesn't necessarily mean they're right. It's up to you if you believe them. An interesting claim that Rocky Express has been sold. It's hardly an expensive type of ride, and it's old and has seen better days. Not to say Rocky needs to be scrapped, as it's still a perfectly fine operational ride. But you'd have to wonder what sort of place would really want to buy it.

Amity Beach (3) Angry Birds 4D Experience (5) Black Mirror Labyrinth (5) Colossus (4) Depth Charge (5) Detonator: Bomb's Away (5) Flying Fish (5) King Pig's Wild Hog Dodgems (5) Lumber Jump (5) Mr. Monkey's Banana Ride (5) Nemesis Inferno (6) Quantum (6) Rocky Express (6) Rumba Rapids (5) Rush (5) Samurai (5) Saw - The Ride (5) Stealth (5) Storm in a Teacup (5) Storm Surge (5) The Swarm (5) Tidal Wave (5) Timber Tug Boat (5) Vortex (5) Zodiac (5) Rocky + Colossus - Rocky Express to win.

Fixed this for you

Wicker Man received some work last closed season. I believe some retracking which shouldn't necessarily have had to happen so soon. That would explain why some people noticed it running better this year compared to last. It's also why the ride has been more reliable this year.

^You could even tack on Samurai into your highlighted area, given it is pretty much on its last legs. But I totally agree. The investment of Swarm Island did, in fairness, have vague idea of adding more to the park. We got the introduction of a new toilet block (necessary infrastructure for expanding the park), plus a short-lived food stall (in the much loved Roast n Relish). So it did something, but it didn't quite do enough. And, really, calling it an area is a bit of a stretch. The park could do with completely changing the entire Old Town area. A new coaster, yes, naturally. But a replacement for Samurai (even if like-for-like), doing something more with Slammer's location, a shop associated to the ride possibly and new eateries (even if a new restaurant replacing the BBQ and a new one replacing whatever is in Old Town at the moment). The toilet block there is in need of a proper redo too (rather than just sticking some vinyl on the walls). And obviously, keep some space for Fright Nights too. Do something coherent with a huge space. It would be a perfect step for introducing a big new attraction and improving the overall feel of a good chunk of the park. There is real potential there. And, thinking optimistically: Chessington is getting a B&M coaster in a new IP land which is extending the park's area. That won't be cheap. Merlin are ready to put their money where their mouth is, so let's hope they do that, and that properly, with Thorpe too.

Merged thread with original Rocky thread (and blew off a lot of dust in the process) There has been nothing official to say Rocky Express is leaving. There has been a lot of speculation, and usually there's no smoke without fire. But it is not absolutely confirmed it is leaving. I reckon there's a high chance it will leave. I also think if it does leave, it won't be sold...it's a ride which is over 35 years old. If anyone did want it, they'd be much better off buying a brand new one. I guess we could see some of its parts harvested and sent to Chessington if they match, but that's about it.

Chessington is (meant to be) seeing a £60m worth of investment over a 5 year period. When exactly that started I'm not sure, but obviously Project Amazon represents a good chunk of that. I believe there's also talks of more accommodation coming, which could also be included in that. In any case, the investments such as Croc Drop, Rainforest, etc were all rather cheap. As for these other rumours... -I would not be surprised to see Pirates' Cove receive some attention this year. It's an area which is largely forgotten about by the park, and come 2023, will be adjacent to a brand new, very popular land. -I guess it's possible that the park could get some (cheap) new rides in the area...but presumably we'd have seen some sort of planning application now? Unless they're temporary things... -I see no rhyme or reason to remove Scorpion Express, and would be surprised if that happens any time soon. As for Rocky Express, I don't see why the park would get it. As it stands, it's still not in any way confirmed that it's leaving Thorpe of course. It seems very likely based on the rumours, but I've heard it's still not 100% confirmed... As for Tomb Blaster changing back to Forbidden Tomb / Terror Tomb or whatever. I don't see it happening. I'll gladly eat my hat if it does. BUT, let's say the park do go about doing stuff to it and change it to an older name. Will the ride be any good? Probably not. The "refurb" from whenever it was (2020?) was dire. The new audio and story is appalling. If they were to scrap the guns and bring it back as Forbidden Tomb, there is in my opinion no reason to believe that the park could do anything with it to actually make it in any way a decent ride experience. Again, very happy to be proven wrong, but with the state they "refurbed" it to, there is no reason to believe that any future work will lead to any worthwhile improvements.

They may have one in Maus au Chocolat, but I think that a new dark ride is what Phantasialand needs most now. Especially with the closure of Hollywood Tours, and the fact that the China dark rides aren't exactly great...

In terms of time scales for the big things: Ghost Train: October 2014 Swarm: February 2011 Saw: November 2007 Stealth: November 2004 Nemesis Inferno: April 2001 Colossus: June 2000 So the last 3 coasters (and last 4 major investments) have had plans submitted at most 18 months before the planned opening date. Inferno and Colossus are stranger ones for a variety of reasons (will explain at the end for anyone interested). The thing with Stealth, Saw and Swarm though is they were all approved after being mentioned in the park's MTDP at the time. In other words, there was already a level of "pre-approval" to those rides existed, which makes the application process a bit smoother and easier. Ghost Train technically wasn't mentioned in any MTDP, but they conditions of its construction did not break the MTDP. So even though the park had to submit a full planning application, it wasn't exactly taxing. With any potential new coaster, there's no current MTDP and no level of pre-approval. So that creates an unknown for the application - moreso with locals (since the park will still be having some discussions with the council authorities prior to submitting plans). This could mean the approval process takes a bit longer, or is a bit more complex. Though, I won't lie, I wouldn't know all the ins and outs there. So in theory, 2023 could still be on the cards. But at the same time, I'd be surprised if Thorpe and Chessington opened big things at the same time. And 2024 seems to be a rumour floating around more. Equally, depending on the size of the project (and the scale of any deconstruction and groundworks that need to take place), it could take a while. In any case, if a 2024 coaster does happen, I'd expect to see an application appear sometime around next summer or later. Side note about Inferno and Colossus. -One original plan for Colossus was to be a Premier Launch Coaster, which would have opened in 2001. The park submitted plans for that in December 1999, which were approved. However, they changed their minds, and eventually ended up with Colossus, and the plans were submitted in June 2000, by which point a 2001 opening wouldn't have been feasible in any way. -Of course, there was the Thorpe Park Fire in 2000, which affected old rides in Inferno's location. One early plan was to get in a Vekoma SLC on the cheap, and quickly build it, so it could open in summer 2001. Another option was for a Rock n Roller Coaster clone. A plan was submitted in September 2000 for this summer 2001 coaster, but quickly withdrawn. I assume the park opted to go for quality over a quick fix in this case, and low and behold, Inferno was born. Good choice in my eyes too.

I'd be curious if this is a general feeling you have, or a feeling which is highlighted when you're specifically at Thorpe? I know sometimes I feel old whenever I visit Thorpe, sometimes too old. Another thing that makes me feel old is that I joined theme park forums when I was 15. If a 15 year old was to join the forums today, there's a good chance they would have been born after Stealth opened. I remember watching it being built, as well as The Flying Fish and Model World prior pretty vividly. Jeez. I know you say when you visit a park these days, there's a couple of moments where you feel like the odd one out. But that feeling was expanded at Fright Nights (during half term too I think?). It certainly makes sense that the feeling would be highlighted more in that case. It could also be one of those psychology things. Are you feeling like the odd one out because you think you are, and so are looking for evidence to support that? And so, in turn, you notice all the younger groups, and don't see many people who look a similar age to yourself / are older? For anyone reading who doesn't quite get what I mean: you don't see many yellow cars on the road these days, do you? But now that thought is in your head, you will be more acutely aware of yellow cars and notice them a lot more, and realise that - whilst they're not common - there's certainly a fair few about! Maybe during your Towers visit have in the back of your mind to exclusively look for groups of adults in their later 20s/early 30s...maybe you'll be surprised with how many you see? To stop with the psycho-analysing and answer the more direct question: no, you can't be too old for theme parks. I think there's certain social norms which can be at play (for example, going to a children's park alone can seem suspect in some people's minds...but that's completely different). Theme parks (and moreso rides) are a unique blend of escapism, thrill, story telling and holiday all in one, along with other options - such as the idea of 'collecting' ridden coasters/visiting/number of rides - if you so choose. Few hobbies offer such a blend, along with additional versatility and flexibility. I don't think you can be too old for any of the things theme parks offer. It's just whether you feel like the combination it offers is what you want, or if you want a narrower focus. One thing I've noticed over the years of being on forums is some people who were (and still are!) really interested in theme parks have similar other hobbies too. A couple of examples... -Live theatre and similar (escapism and story telling) -Skydiving / mountain biking / more "extreme" sports (thrill) -Travelling (self explanatory) Maybe that's another reason why there's seemingly less people who visit parks? As people get older, they get easier access to / realise other hobbies which share similar traits to visiting theme parks, and focus their attention there a bit more? That diversification then means they spend less time at parks, and then the concentration/percentage of younger people visiting parks decreases. Another thing which I note as well, is that specific park enthusiasm is much more concentrated with younger people. Unsurprisingly, there's very few 15 year olds which are interested in theme parks more broadly: their focus is on one or two parks, and usually their local park. But after say 15 years of continual visits, that local park won't have the same appeal or interest, and are likely more interested to parks more broadly. Again meaning they spend less time visiting their local park, and instead visiting a broader range of parks (again meaning that the average age of certain park visitors feels very young, and the late 20 / early 30 somethings all feel very old whenever they visit). I feel like I've waffled an awful lot and not said much. But in short: -You're not too old for theme parks (and if you are, I only have a maximum of 3 years left before I am...) -Thorpe Park is probably the park in the UK which would highlight this feeling the most -I think people's interests in theme parks spreads in one way or another as they get older, which can mean there's a skewed view as to how old park visitors are

Timber might be coming to Thorpe.

Ah I love it when people post one liner rumours. I might join in.

There's been many rumours today especially about it being Rocky Express' last day today, with people being told by some staff to get their last ride on it today. Obviously you should always take these things with a pinch of salt, but it's an interesting development of things if true, given the Loggers/Platform things. And usually no smoke without fire. Interestingly there's been no conversation about Timber Tug or Lumber Jump, but then again, they're not classic Thorpe rides. Of course, Rocky is old and has arguably been on its last legs for a while now. So maybe it's just retiring out of necessity. A watch this space thing for sure.