JoshC.

I think people forget that a hyper coaster is literally just "a coaster over 200ft". Obviously when people hear hyper coaster, they think of these long, out and back B&Ms, but it's literally just a word to define a coaster over a certain height. I believe the current shortest "200ft+ high coaster that doesn't feature a launch" is Thunder Dolphin: https://rcdb.com/1845.htm

https://www.facebook.com/thorpeparkmania/posts/10166301025505624 https://www.thorpepark-consultation.com/ TPM will post a more detailed analysis later

Sorry, should have expanded a bit more. The layout shown wasn't "short", a la a Dive Machine. I reckon it could still be the longest ride on park. But, I think it was on the shorter side for a hyper coaster (but that's a personal opinion) Unlikely. They have also shown sight surveys from various views outside the park in the local area. These show how the coaster will impact the skyline and views for locals. Whilst superimposing the layout of a coaster isn't the most difficult to do, they usually only do that with a final (or near-final) layout to give locals (and the council) a concrete idea of what is to come. Hopefully this will all become clearer when the consultation website goes live and shows the same pictures that were shown during the presentation! It's hard to put across everything that was discussed clearly, whilst also trying to set expectations right!

I can assure you it looks nothing like a dive machine.

I think I made it sound worse than what it is. Ultimately everyone seemed understanding of the need for expansion and investment, but found that the noise from tannoys and some screaming can carry over the lake. The concern was that the park didn't fully appreciate or understand what the base level of noise can sometimes be. I think it's easily rectified with some dialogue between both sides, which is the point of this consultation. I don't think it's a particular bump in the road, and don't think people will end up being against the investment. I'm sure a good resolution can come from this. It was to do with traffic. Peak times around the park are congested (not just because of the park of course), and I'm aware in the past construction of rides has highlighted this further. I'll give a summary of everything I can remember, but obviously we'll have actual pictures and stuff tomorrow: The Ride I will give an honest reaction here: when people see the visuals shown today, I think people will be divided. It didn't look that long. Looks can be deceiving and it was hard to get much of a feel from quick looks at the visuals. It's a very densely packed layout. It goes over the central lake a few times, but doesn't sprawl much. It has quite a few high points, again all closely packed together. It gave me a little bit of Steel Curtain (Kennywood, USA) vibes in some sense, where there's a lot of elements packed together. Looking at it, it's hard to tell if there were inversions or not. The visuals are very loose. There's elements which look like they could be inversions, but they could also be non-inverting elements. IF there are inversions, we could be looking at the world's tallest inversion. We could be looking at anywhere up to 6 to 7 inversion or so. There's also a splash zone, which could indicate a splash down too. But it didn't look like it was near any track. Very confusing. So this will be very interesting to see people's reactions when we get a look at the visuals. Other details -Manufacturer: The official line was they are still talking to multiple manufacturers. One member of the team speaking at the consultation said "there's people doing noise tests on a similar ride in Turkey". Would suggest the Flash clone, and hence Mack, but who knows. -Other rides: No other rides were shown in the area. -Existing rides: They said they're looking to retain "at least one of the existing rides". -Height: 72m/236ft -Speed/Length: Nothing said Timeline (if all goes to plan) -Today to January 2022: Consultation period -Spring 2022: Plans submitted to council -Summer 2022: Plans approved -Late 2022: Construction starts -Date TBC: Ride opens. They did mention 2024, seemingly by accident. It also seems likely, given the timescale. It does beg the question why Old Town needs to close now if construction isn't due to start until late 2022. I guess they could do some work during 2022 to prep, with main construction starting in 2022. It also answers a potential question about Creek Freak Massacre. That could certain return next year if work around that building hasn't started by next October. Project Name One of the visuals labelled the roller coaster as Project Exodus. So that answers that. Track Colour Stealth is coloured white on the top to blend in with the skyline, then has blue elsewhere. The park are considering something similar with this, but nothing is confirmed. Visitation The park said that they see the need for investing as a way of stopping declining visiting numbers, and getting people coming back. They don't expect the visitor levels to rise up dramatically. They also acknowledged the potential for competition from London Resort. Personally I found it convenient that Merlin don't think it will happen, but they'll cite it as a need to invest in a new ride. ha Anything Else I can't think of anything else major. There will be lots of trees cut, but these will be carefully chosen and likely lots of ones which are dying. The area isn't of any ecological interest. I'm sure everything else will come tomorrow and I'll remember more. Locals The actual consultation was fine (at least, the one I went to was). Maybe a couple of questions which were more geek-oriented, but it was nice to see people being respectful that this was a process for locals. That said, it's a little disappointing hearing and seeing people online referring to people as "Karens" for bringing up concerns. I don't think that anything raised by anyone was unreasonable. These are people with genuine concerns, some of whom have lived in the local area for many years before the park became filled with thrill rides. As I've said, I don't think anyone is against development particularly (and indeed, even those with pressing concerns acknowledged that it looks and sounds good for the park), but these are people's lives. I think it's worth stressing time and time again, there's a pretty good two way communication between the park and locals, and both sides are keen for that to continue. I just hope that everyone appreciates that, and don't berate people in any way for having concerns. It's not like they're even being Roper-esque (Alton Towers reference), they just want a very happy and respectful compromise.

And breathe. As a local, I attended. I aired a question of concern I had, speaking with a member of the presenting team afterwards. I will give a brief rundown of what we know. I'll try and post in more detail later. 1. 72m / 236ft high. 2. A proposed layout didn't give anything away in terms of manufacturer. 3. Someone did say "There is a team performing noise surveys on a similar ride in Turkey" 4. The current design suggests a station roughly where the old train station is. It is compact round the Loggers lake. 4a. A "splash zone" overlooking the lake 4b. Possible inversions, but maybe not. Hard to say. 4c. If inversions, then maybe world's tallest inversion is possible. The general vibe was that people are frustrated with current noise levels and how the park is operating, but don't seem particularly opposed to a new investment. As I say, I will try and post more later. Please remain calm.

Something big and long, with a focus on airtime. Manufacturer is something I don't care about. B&M, RMC, Mack, Intamin, Vekoma could all offer rides which fit the bill. As long as it's different to the park's other coasters, it's fine.

Timber Tug and Lumber Jump? Possibly. The 11 year old rides from Octopus Garden? No. I can't imagine anything will happen for a while. If the rides are moving elsewhere on park, they need to prep that area first. Winter maintenance on those rides is very short and simple too, so it won't be a priority. If the rides are being sold, they'll be waiting on the buyer. If the rides are being scrapped, they'll scrap it when construction starts for the new roller coaster, which won't be for a while yet. Same for Platform 15 and the rest of Old Town really; there's no need to do anything to it until construction starts.

I would guess we'd see a new theme entirely. It's a perfect time to go out with the old (town) and in with the new. Old Town has always been incoherent as a theme at best. The park's themed areas are sketchy and vague at best too. I see no reason why they would want to retcon a new coaster into it. I'd be surprised if Black Mirror lasts much longer than 2024 too. Samurai has no theme. Saw is - and always was - detached and its own separate identity. So this is a chance to go from the ground up with a new theme. Depending on the plan and everything, the Creek Freak building may have to make way too. Which would result in a complete blank slate too.

There are rumours circulating round that the park will be asking for proof of address to ensure you're local for the in person event. I think it's worth posting here what we included in our recent TPM article:

There's been work going on in CBeebies Land with a couple of attractions closing (or ones that have been closed for a while) seemingly set to be replaced. No clue which ones tbh. So that could quite plausibly be the new attractions (since it could simply be 2 new things). Obviously the Retro Squad was planned as a 1 year thing. Loosing multiple flats in the same year when they're very much needed things is not good, so one would hope that we get some sort of thrill flat ride too.

Timber Tug Boat and Lumber Jump definitely are (and they used to exist at Sea Life Brighton, I think, and were easy to transport to Thorpe). Rocky I imagine is a bit more difficult given it doesn't just exist on a flat base. But I imagine it's not impossible to move it if they wanted. I think the issue with Rocky particularly (over the other two) is the age two. I'm sure it's still in working order, but questions should be raised about the worthwhileness of moving it I guess. I've heard about the OG rides being kept at the farm...I don't know if that's actually true, and I do know some were sold on / sent to other Merlin attractions. I'd wonder what the point of storing a few kids rides for 10+ years would be, and if it's worth actually rebuilding and open them over getting new stuff. It certainly would be nice to see some sort of collection of smaller rides still though. Maybe replacing the Wet Wet Wet slides by the Beach, since they didn't open this year. This is the most curious thing right now for me. Thorpe made a fairly big deal out of Platform closing. Nothing was said about Creek Freak. These plans definitely won't have come from nowhere either of course either. Whilst Platform was longer serving, Creek Freak was definitely more loved, so you'd think they would say something about that too? So does it mean they're keeping it and working round that? If so, how does that work? And if they are getting rid of it, what will the park do next Fright Nights to compensate losing two mazes.

Related to the incoming roller coaster, the park have confirmed that the Old Town area over the train tracks (holding Rocky Express, Timber Tug Boat and Lumber Jump) will not open in 2022. There is nothing said about what will happen to the rides as of yet: *moves thread to The Past for now*

Ooops unnecessary triple post, oh well The park have confirmed they're working on a "world-class rollercoaster":

Back to being serious now... This is an excellent point. Also slightly disappointing if it does end up being true; as has been discussed previously, a whole new land with support rides, shop(s), restaurant(s), space for FN / events, etc etc is really what would hammer this home. Optimistically (and perhaps foolishly), I guess there's still plenty of hope that this could be more, but the main focus of the consultation is the coaster. This differs from Chessington in some sense: they were expanding into a new part of the park, and so the whole land needed consultation. Being an existing part of the park, maybe it's only the coaster that needs consultation (say, because of size or noise), and anything else is fairly standard? If you were to cycle back 3-4 years ago, people were pretty confident we were getting a coaster in 2020. That obviously never happened. Go back 7-8 years people were confident we were getting a coaster in 2015/16. Whilst there have been rumours for a while, there's been nothing concrete to suggest we should expect anything to come. That's part of the reason why people are surprised. The other part of it is just excitement I think. There is nothing to suggest what the track length could be. The 750 (well 850) number comes from MTDPs. In the past, the park submitted Mid Term Development Plans (MTDP) to the local council. This would outline roughly what they were considering installing over a set period of time, and some restrictions they would stick within. In some ways, this served as a consultation period and people could also give feedback. Once an MTDP is approved, if the park submit an application which meets all those restrictions, the process is a bit quicker and easier for both parties. The last MTDP the park submitted was back in 2010, and was valid up to and including 2016. In that MTDP, the park stated they would build roller coasters which would not exceed 50m in height and not exceed 850m in length. This was simply because the ideas they had for Swarm (and loose ideas for whatever might have come after) were not going to exceed those restrictions. Why say more when you don't need to. The details in that MTDP, as I say, were only valid up to 2016. At this point, any roller coaster could have any height, length, etc (within reason of course). This is one of the things the consultation will outline I expect. In terms of 750m being the balance between ride experience, throughput and maintenance - I've never heard anything to suggest that is their school of thought. It might be a happy coincidence, but I don't expect that's their hard and fast process. And even if it was, the last time the park installed a coaster was almost 10 years ago - things may have changed.

Port Aventura are getting a La Liga land. Thorpe to get a Premier League land confirmed?

The "Winds in the east..." is a quote from a Mary Poppins song. Clearly that's the IP we're getting... I jest of course. John is pretty meticulous and has his finger on the pulse when it comes to the enthusiast community. So I wouldn't be surprised if this is related to the going ons this weekend, even if it's just an acknowledgement of things happening. Equally though, it could mean absolutely nothing and be completely unrelated. If there is some relation, I'd be surprised if the choice of words or gifs or whatever is an indication of what's to come. tbh, if I was in his shoes, I'd probably post a few hints that lead people down the complete wrong path, just for the laughs. Though that's probably the one of many reasons why I don't work for Merlin Magic Making.

Could be from a very crude numbers point of view I guess: "We spend £x on a roller coaster and get back £y. We spend £(x/10) on something else and get back more than £(y/10). So 10 something elses gives more than one coaster, so why get a coaster when we can get 10 something elses?" I assume it wasn't quite that simple, but you get the gist. It wouldn't surprise me if that was the loose logic tbh In other news, here's TPM's news update nicely summarising everything: https://thorpeparkmania.co.uk/news/28-11-2021/Consultations+to+Occur+for+a+New+Roller+Coaster!

Any chance of you being that annoying friend who asks for a photo of the reverse of the leaflet too?

https://www.thorpepark-consultation.com/ 👀

Which attraction?

Blackpool's situation was arguably very different. Prior to 1994, they had a collection of old woodies and a couple of mid-range thrill coasters. Perhaps their most thrilling ride at the time was Revolution. The introduction of Big One was a marked step up. It was meant to be something which dwarfed the rest of the park, but not overshadow them. (Realise now my wording in previous post could have been better). Big One was the 'extreme, large scale, big boy' ride. The other rides were thrilling and fun, but could easily be said to be a level below Big One. At Thorpe, you have Colossus, Inferno, Stealth, Saw and Swarm. A quintet of big, extreme rides. You can certainly argue amongst those there's some which are 'bigger'/'more intense'/'more extreme' than the others, but they all have that 'large scale, big boy' ride aura. So creating a ride that is physically bigger than all of them could create a suggestion that it's a "step up" from all of them, especially in a park as small as Thorpe where it's easy to compare everything. It doesn't rule out a hyper. And I'm sure there's plenty of parks, including Blackpool, who have come to this hurdle and tackled it one way or another. But it's certainly something that needs to be carefully considered if one was to come, both from a design and marketing perspective.

When Stealth opened, it was marketed as Europe's highest and fastest launch coaster. That's a "Merlin" claim, and stronger than many of their recent ones. They could also have gone down "Europe's most intense launch" or "One of the world's most intense launches" routes to add to it. They could have made it work. The last MTDP stated any coasters built under those restrictions would not exceed 850m. The thing is, since it is (well) out of date, it means nothing. If the park wasn't to build longer, they can. The only reason for giving a number is because the park had loose enough plans that they didn't expect to build a coaster longer than 850m, so why would they say they would. There's no restriction on the park saying they can't exceed a set length with a coaster. As for height, it's true they had to be more careful and rigorous with Stealth. And they had carefully placed high points for Swarm and any potential ride on the island behind Stealth. But again, there is no specific restriction on how high they can build within reason. I think their max height because of Heathrow is around 500ft, but something even close to that size is unrealistic anyway. So a hyper isn't impossible. Of course, a hyper coaster raises many issues... the main one being how would you install one without dwarfing the rest of the park? Stealth works because of its location and minimal structure. Would, say, a 250ft lift hill plus many airtime hills greater than 100ft in height just put everything else to shame in perspective? Possibly.

Genuine question: How was Tomb Blaster previously blocked off during Winter? Was it just a bin in front of the entrance or something similar? Whilst it's different, this is not evidence that Forbidden Tomb / Terror Tomb / 5th Dimension is returning. And my earlier point still stands, if one of those names is re-introduced, I see no reason to expect any resulting ride experience changes to be any good.

The reason I mentioned Chessington is because that's where the discussion has been focused, due to Seastorm's early closure and rumours around Rocky being harvested for it. The rides are similar enough that one would imagine that there could be similar ride parts between them. Of course, Merlin's Challenge could also be suitable. Ultimately though, even if Rocky has indeed gone and is being scrapped, it's also fair to wonder if it's even worth harvesting its parts for another ride. It's impossible to answer your question on if you should believe it without you giving the source. If the source is, say, the Head of Engineering from Chessington, then it's something you probably should believe. If the source is CheekyChessingtonChannel on Youtube with 5 subscribers and 2 grainy POV videos of Dragon's Fury and Vampire, maybe not. Based on the context, I'm going to assume the source is Chessington Buzz (given their recent speculation post about Pirates Cove). That's certainly a more reliable source than many others around. But it doesn't necessarily mean they're right. It's up to you if you believe them. An interesting claim that Rocky Express has been sold. It's hardly an expensive type of ride, and it's old and has seen better days. Not to say Rocky needs to be scrapped, as it's still a perfectly fine operational ride. But you'd have to wonder what sort of place would really want to buy it.