SteveJ

Yes they do.
"No other company on the planet delivers projects of such quality, with such value, within the timescales achieved."
MMM website
http://magic.lmcpreview.co.uk/ (click Read More)

MMM of course is the organisation that produces and markets all of Merlin's  attraction developments, including the Alton Towers Dungeons.

Also, it has regularly been used in staff inductions, promotions, etc to make out they are "second to Disney" in any sense. I rarely see it specified as being only about attendance anymore. Yes, attendance is how they originally based that claim, but they have been using it disingenuously since. Along with many other ridiculous statements they make (eg that Spring update video), Merlin seemingly DO believe they make some of the best attractions in the world.

So please don't be tired of the point being raised, Merlin themselves raise it allll the time so you can  expect a valid counterargument!
 
 
But do you think this is going to turn out anywhere near as good as Wicker Man? When it opened, I think quite rightly Wicker Man was a big hit with the public and enthusiasts alike. Yes there was a lot of cynicism beforehand from some, but mostly about the layout. Fair enough, because it's very short compared with the many other wooden coasters that were cancelled at Alton Towers. Other than that, the rest was just speculation and people being (understandably) disillusioned with Merlin after other recent developments that were nothing like Wicker Man.

Maybe not "easy money", but they do it for the reason of spreading their own brands and guaranteeing marketing success by using a pre-existing concept (and therefore guaranteeing profits, according to them). But as usual, they are even internally dysfunctional, and you're right it will cost them more in the long term. They keep proving they don't care about the long term of their parks.

It's the very first thing they say to all new staff in inductions, something like: "We're chasing the mouse, our aim is to be bigger than Disney" accompanied by a slide showing them as second to Disney.

Yes they do.
"No other company on the planet delivers projects of such quality, with such value, within the timescales achieved."
MMM website
http://magic.lmcpreview.co.uk/ (click Read More)

MMM of course is the organisation that produces and markets all of Merlin's  attraction developments, including the Alton Towers Dungeons.

Also, it has regularly been used in staff inductions, promotions, etc to make out they are "second to Disney" in any sense. I rarely see it specified as being only about attendance anymore. Yes, attendance is how they originally based that claim, but they have been using it disingenuously since. Along with many other ridiculous statements they make (eg that Spring update video), Merlin seemingly DO believe they make some of the best attractions in the world.

So please don't be tired of the point being raised, Merlin themselves raise it allll the time so you can  expect a valid counterargument!
 
 
But do you think this is going to turn out anywhere near as good as Wicker Man? When it opened, I think quite rightly Wicker Man was a big hit with the public and enthusiasts alike. Yes there was a lot of cynicism beforehand from some, but mostly about the layout. Fair enough, because it's very short compared with the many other wooden coasters that were cancelled at Alton Towers. Other than that, the rest was just speculation and people being (understandably) disillusioned with Merlin after other recent developments that were nothing like Wicker Man.

Maybe not "easy money", but they do it for the reason of spreading their own brands and guaranteeing marketing success by using a pre-existing concept (and therefore guaranteeing profits, according to them). But as usual, they are even internally dysfunctional, and you're right it will cost them more in the long term. They keep proving they don't care about the long term of their parks.

Yes they do.
"No other company on the planet delivers projects of such quality, with such value, within the timescales achieved."
MMM website
http://magic.lmcpreview.co.uk/ (click Read More)

MMM of course is the organisation that produces and markets all of Merlin's  attraction developments, including the Alton Towers Dungeons.

Also, it has regularly been used in staff inductions, promotions, etc to make out they are "second to Disney" in any sense. I rarely see it specified as being only about attendance anymore. Yes, attendance is how they originally based that claim, but they have been using it disingenuously since. Along with many other ridiculous statements they make (eg that Spring update video), Merlin seemingly DO believe they make some of the best attractions in the world.

So please don't be tired of the point being raised, Merlin themselves raise it allll the time so you can  expect a valid counterargument!
 
 
But do you think this is going to turn out anywhere near as good as Wicker Man? When it opened, I think quite rightly Wicker Man was a big hit with the public and enthusiasts alike. Yes there was a lot of cynicism beforehand from some, but mostly about the layout. Fair enough, because it's very short compared with the many other wooden coasters that were cancelled at Alton Towers. Other than that, the rest was just speculation and people being (understandably) disillusioned with Merlin after other recent developments that were nothing like Wicker Man.

Maybe not "easy money", but they do it for the reason of spreading their own brands and guaranteeing marketing success by using a pre-existing concept (and therefore guaranteeing profits, according to them). But as usual, they are even internally dysfunctional, and you're right it will cost them more in the long term. They keep proving they don't care about the long term of their parks.

Yes they do.
"No other company on the planet delivers projects of such quality, with such value, within the timescales achieved."
MMM website
http://magic.lmcpreview.co.uk/ (click Read More)

MMM of course is the organisation that produces and markets all of Merlin's  attraction developments, including the Alton Towers Dungeons.

Also, it has regularly been used in staff inductions, promotions, etc to make out they are "second to Disney" in any sense. I rarely see it specified as being only about attendance anymore. Yes, attendance is how they originally based that claim, but they have been using it disingenuously since. Along with many other ridiculous statements they make (eg that Spring update video), Merlin seemingly DO believe they make some of the best attractions in the world.

So please don't be tired of the point being raised, Merlin themselves raise it allll the time so you can  expect a valid counterargument!
 
 
But do you think this is going to turn out anywhere near as good as Wicker Man? When it opened, I think quite rightly Wicker Man was a big hit with the public and enthusiasts alike. Yes there was a lot of cynicism beforehand from some, but mostly about the layout. Fair enough, because it's very short compared with the many other wooden coasters that were cancelled at Alton Towers. Other than that, the rest was just speculation and people being (understandably) disillusioned with Merlin after other recent developments that were nothing like Wicker Man.

Maybe not "easy money", but they do it for the reason of spreading their own brands and guaranteeing marketing success by using a pre-existing concept (and therefore guaranteeing profits, according to them). But as usual, they are even internally dysfunctional, and you're right it will cost them more in the long term. They keep proving they don't care about the long term of their parks.

Yes they do.
"No other company on the planet delivers projects of such quality, with such value, within the timescales achieved."
MMM website
http://magic.lmcpreview.co.uk/ (click Read More)

MMM of course is the organisation that produces and markets all of Merlin's  attraction developments, including the Alton Towers Dungeons.

Also, it has regularly been used in staff inductions, promotions, etc to make out they are "second to Disney" in any sense. I rarely see it specified as being only about attendance anymore. Yes, attendance is how they originally based that claim, but they have been using it disingenuously since. Along with many other ridiculous statements they make (eg that Spring update video), Merlin seemingly DO believe they make some of the best attractions in the world.

So please don't be tired of the point being raised, Merlin themselves raise it allll the time so you can  expect a valid counterargument!
 
 
But do you think this is going to turn out anywhere near as good as Wicker Man? When it opened, I think quite rightly Wicker Man was a big hit with the public and enthusiasts alike. Yes there was a lot of cynicism beforehand from some, but mostly about the layout. Fair enough, because it's very short compared with the many other wooden coasters that were cancelled at Alton Towers. Other than that, the rest was just speculation and people being (understandably) disillusioned with Merlin after other recent developments that were nothing like Wicker Man.

Maybe not "easy money", but they do it for the reason of spreading their own brands and guaranteeing marketing success by using a pre-existing concept (and therefore guaranteeing profits, according to them). But as usual, they are even internally dysfunctional, and you're right it will cost them more in the long term. They keep proving they don't care about the long term of their parks.

Because it looks (equally predictably) rubbish. No need to defend trash, it's not like Merlin actually care about this other than making easy money.

They know they can pay for nothing, do a half arsed job and people will still go along with it.

Most the criticism of it I've seen online has been done with humour of disbelief anyway. You don't have to like everything by default for fear of being seen as "negative".

True there's always some who will complain regardless, but just look at this. Seeing how people will defend the rubbish being fed them by Merlin (they're capable of better, look at Wicker Man), more because they have something against people's opinions  than because they actually like the attraction being made, is sadder in my opinion. If they made anything entertaining and original, I'd be all over it in positivity!

Because it looks (equally predictably) rubbish. No need to defend trash, it's not like Merlin actually care about this other than making easy money.

They know they can pay for nothing, do a half arsed job and people will still go along with it.

Most the criticism of it I've seen online has been done with humour of disbelief anyway. You don't have to like everything by default for fear of being seen as "negative".

True there's always some who will complain regardless, but just look at this. Seeing how people will defend the rubbish being fed them by Merlin (they're capable of better, look at Wicker Man), more because they have something against people's opinions  than because they actually like the attraction being made, is sadder in my opinion. If they made anything entertaining and original, I'd be all over it in positivity!

All they're going to do is cover the rest of the Charlie façade behind wooden poles. I wouldn't be surprised if the entrance is left like that. It doesn't even match the stone of the famous towers. Also the Burger Kitchen next door has had the remaining colour sucked out of it.

Rides are relatively expensive to run but compare DBGT to any other ride on park, for staffing maintenance, parts, etc. They gave themselves an enormous slippery slope there. Merlin/Thorpe are definitely not thinking about operational costs when they make these decisions, so I don't think that's any reason why old rides are closed.

More usually rides means more theoretical capacity for your park, so you can grow your park and get more people through the door, so more money! That's the usual model anyway. Thorpe have plenty of other space to expand so there's not much case for removing old rides. That certainly wasn't the reason Loggers Leap was closed.

So yes you can keep adding new rides to a reasonable extent. As long as you're not adding DBGT, and that you're maintaining your old rides well enough to avoid a big gridlock situation where it now costs a big lump sum just to keep an old ride open. Slammer was a bit different though, it always was unreasonable even with maintenance.

Rides are relatively expensive to run but compare DBGT to any other ride on park, for staffing maintenance, parts, etc. They gave themselves an enormous slippery slope there. Merlin/Thorpe are definitely not thinking about operational costs when they make these decisions, so I don't think that's any reason why old rides are closed.

More usually rides means more theoretical capacity for your park, so you can grow your park and get more people through the door, so more money! That's the usual model anyway. Thorpe have plenty of other space to expand so there's not much case for removing old rides. That certainly wasn't the reason Loggers Leap was closed.

So yes you can keep adding new rides to a reasonable extent. As long as you're not adding DBGT, and that you're maintaining your old rides well enough to avoid a big gridlock situation where it now costs a big lump sum just to keep an old ride open. Slammer was a bit different though, it always was unreasonable even with maintenance.

Rides are relatively expensive to run but compare DBGT to any other ride on park, for staffing maintenance, parts, etc. They gave themselves an enormous slippery slope there. Merlin/Thorpe are definitely not thinking about operational costs when they make these decisions, so I don't think that's any reason why old rides are closed.

More usually rides means more theoretical capacity for your park, so you can grow your park and get more people through the door, so more money! That's the usual model anyway. Thorpe have plenty of other space to expand so there's not much case for removing old rides. That certainly wasn't the reason Loggers Leap was closed.

So yes you can keep adding new rides to a reasonable extent. As long as you're not adding DBGT, and that you're maintaining your old rides well enough to avoid a big gridlock situation where it now costs a big lump sum just to keep an old ride open. Slammer was a bit different though, it always was unreasonable even with maintenance.

*Sigh* I miss the days before it had brightly coloured sponsors, and the bridge was just good ol’ Pier 13...
Sorry, but I just can’t get used to the sponsored stuff, just looks so tacky and out of place ? 

Rides are relatively expensive to run but compare DBGT to any other ride on park, for staffing maintenance, parts, etc. They gave themselves an enormous slippery slope there. Merlin/Thorpe are definitely not thinking about operational costs when they make these decisions, so I don't think that's any reason why old rides are closed.

More usually rides means more theoretical capacity for your park, so you can grow your park and get more people through the door, so more money! That's the usual model anyway. Thorpe have plenty of other space to expand so there's not much case for removing old rides. That certainly wasn't the reason Loggers Leap was closed.

So yes you can keep adding new rides to a reasonable extent. As long as you're not adding DBGT, and that you're maintaining your old rides well enough to avoid a big gridlock situation where it now costs a big lump sum just to keep an old ride open. Slammer was a bit different though, it always was unreasonable even with maintenance.

The trick is that you've queued for hours to go on it in the vain hope it has been "continually invested for years to come" when it hasnt

Because people are thick. Next question?  
 
 
It probably is part of that slightly more visually prominent position (in comparison to Rapids), and is nowhere near as wet as Tidal Wave (in theory)... From a guest perspective, there's more to appeal to, especially when you factor in the central location where pretty much everyone walks past at some point...
 
Why do people with kids join an hour long queue for Truckers? Because it's there...

The trick is that you've queued for hours to go on it in the vain hope it has been "continually invested for years to come" when it hasnt

I get that appeal, but really does Storm Surge have that? When I think of my rides on it, I remember tarmac, gravel, dirty primary colours, sitting in a puddle... Oh god I'm getting flashbacks

You've misinterpreted my post a bit, this is always the nature of planning in its earliest stages, it's not rushed or low effort if its just a desktop study. I was just pointing out that a picture on a map doesn't necessarily mean that much in planning terms. At most they would have visited Monks walk to check the measurement of the site. It was probably only included to show that Octopus Garden was the best out of some very poor locations. It would be an obvious (I hope) nonstarter having Storm Surge placed by Monks Walk.

Although I'm hopefully not as negative as you make out, yes, I think that many things  Thorpe Park have done in recent years have been rushed and amateurish.  I do try to only post about things I've had some perspective on (ie not talking out of my bum!) but am always open to hearing from others if they have a different point of view.

I'm always open to them changing their ways but I've watched Thorpe Park go from one of the best to the dumbest parks in the UK that's for sure. Would love for it to be more professionally run, but I doubt that will happen through Merlin.

Storm Surge remains a beacon of total naffness for the park and I will never forget the hilarious day it opened.

I get that appeal, but really does Storm Surge have that? When I think of my rides on it, I remember tarmac, gravel, dirty primary colours, sitting in a puddle... Oh god I'm getting flashbacks

It doesn't mean anything, it's just somebody being paid £8 an hour to reply to tweets who has no say over the park at all.

You've misinterpreted my post a bit, this is always the nature of planning in its earliest stages, it's not rushed or low effort if its just a desktop study. I was just pointing out that a picture on a map doesn't necessarily mean that much in planning terms. At most they would have visited Monks walk to check the measurement of the site. It was probably only included to show that Octopus Garden was the best out of some very poor locations. It would be an obvious (I hope) nonstarter having Storm Surge placed by Monks Walk.

Although I'm hopefully not as negative as you make out, yes, I think that many things  Thorpe Park have done in recent years have been rushed and amateurish.  I do try to only post about things I've had some perspective on (ie not talking out of my bum!) but am always open to hearing from others if they have a different point of view.

I'm always open to them changing their ways but I've watched Thorpe Park go from one of the best to the dumbest parks in the UK that's for sure. Would love for it to be more professionally run, but I doubt that will happen through Merlin.

Storm Surge remains a beacon of total naffness for the park and I will never forget the hilarious day it opened.

The trick is that you've queued for hours to go on it in the vain hope it has been "continually invested for years to come" when it hasnt

One issue is the fact that area is used for access for vehicles and such. Using the area for Fright Nights is okay as it's only temporary (though not ideal). It would have had a big effect on back of house operations. It also would have made the construction of DBGT significantly more difficult for example. So in that sense, it wouldn't have been ideal.
 
I also imagine that issue of having a ride right next to Monks Walk would cause extra issues when people try and enter the park from there (ride areas, etc).

So more it's just less ideal from a back of house perspective. Also a tearing out OG meant there wouldn't be more rides to operate; I imagine OG and Storm Surge were equally labour and staff intensive, making that location more preferable.

You've misinterpreted my post a bit, this is always the nature of planning in its earliest stages, it's not rushed or low effort if its just a desktop study. I was just pointing out that a picture on a map doesn't necessarily mean that much in planning terms. At most they would have visited Monks walk to check the measurement of the site. It was probably only included to show that Octopus Garden was the best out of some very poor locations. It would be an obvious (I hope) nonstarter having Storm Surge placed by Monks Walk.

Although I'm hopefully not as negative as you make out, yes, I think that many things  Thorpe Park have done in recent years have been rushed and amateurish.  I do try to only post about things I've had some perspective on (ie not talking out of my bum!) but am always open to hearing from others if they have a different point of view.

I'm always open to them changing their ways but I've watched Thorpe Park go from one of the best to the dumbest parks in the UK that's for sure. Would love for it to be more professionally run, but I doubt that will happen through Merlin.

Storm Surge remains a beacon of total naffness for the park and I will never forget the hilarious day it opened.