Spider

Another great trip report. I think I know the answer to this, but if you had to pick one park in Denmark to go to, which would it be? Also, where is next for you? It's so interesting reading about trips like this, especially this one where you've unearthed some parks and rides that I would never have heard of otherwise, and kind of 'completed' a country in a way that most trips wouldn't accommodate. Are there other European countries with a set of theme parks like this that are worth visiting?

I have two days at the Towers on Tuesday and Wednesday so hoping I will get the chance to ride The Smiler. Did anyone see the funny argument on TPR about whether The Smiler was essentially two coasters stuck together (and therefore the 14 loop record is kinda cheating)? Since the owner there had a massive paddy when people argued with him,I would be interested to hear what people think here. For me the thing that look the best about Smiler is its length. Short ride time is a problem for almost all UK coasters (except The Ultimate, perhaps!£ so it's great to see a ride that rewards the long wait times with a decent length of experience.

What baffles me about one train operations is that is basically leaves the station staff standing round chatting for half the time. This is obviously all paid labour, and surely that wasted time would be better spent enhancing guest experience, by running two trains and therefore making it a full time job. They are effectively throwing money away by doing this, and I cant think of many places where the logic applied here would be deemed to make good business sense. I honestly think that they would make a lot more money by getting people on as many ride as possible - making them think kindly of the park and more likely to return, than the relatively small amount they make from fast track sales. Low staffing is one thing, but inefficient use of staff when they could do something do simple to make people's day better is crazy. Ergh Merlin.

I don't think Loggers really needs much, nor is it going to get much. For what it is at Thorpe, it serves it purpose. It's never going to draw crowds when it's cold, and it will remain reasonably popular when it's hot. The route is nowhere near long enough for much to be added, and the main draw of the ride will always be the final drop. In an ideal world I think they could do something decent with a new tunnel. Would love to see some moving mechanics in the first lift hill (I'm thinking cogs, gears, sound effects, saws rotating, just to give the impression of a working Logging company). Then perhaps the dark portion could have some better effects added to it, a waterfall? A water curtain (hands up if you remember the one on Dragon Falls - you're getting old!), some sound or lighting effects. The portion just out of the dark section already has a nice prop, it just needs tidying up. The drop needs nothing done to it, it's a great ending! The station could do with a real tidy up, and again, some moving parts would look cool. Also agree with Bill, the queueline should be ripped out and rebuilt. It's a relic from when LL was one of the biggest rides on park and is too long, and could easily be more scenic. Thorpe's general crowd mixed with horrible switchbacks make an unpleasant queueing experience when it doesn't need to be.

Going to Towers next week so really hoping this bloody ride is going to manage to stay open. Don't mind so much if it's closed (in fact I was kinda hoping we'd get there before opening so that the park was a bit quieter) but would be really annoyed if the whole of X Sector was closed as well. No more stalling Smiler!

I love those designs. If they just copied the first one completely it would be great. The second one, I love the gap in the rockwork with the bridge - it's got a Expedition Everest feel to it, if on a smaller scale. Not sure about the pagoda though - imagine it being big enough to cover the whole main drop - it would look seriously tacky at that size unless they spent and unfeasable amount of money on it. The thing is, with all these designs, I'm almost certain the retheme will be crap, and expect to see that the elements taken from designs will amount to about one small thing that is painted onto a plywood board rather than a model.

Two of the most anticipated coasters currently being built are the Seven Dwarfs Mine Train and the Gringotts ride - both of which are going to be based around the combination of dark ride and roller coasters. I think this is going to be a very popular idea. I realise coasters have had dark ride elements previously, but these two projects seem to be taking the idea to a new level, and their status will certainly push the concept into the public's attention. If an out and back Woodie isn't possible, or possible to do on a scale which would make it a unique experience, I think AT should be looking into the idea of a dark ride/coaster - hopefully without an IP. Otherwise it's got to be a 4D no?

Awful ride. Can't believe they got rid of the Energiser for it - those things were a bit weird but I always quite enjoyed them. Submission is a classic example of flat ride that just doesn't work as a fun experience. If it didn't have such a small footprint I reckon it would be gone. Are there many of these rides operating?

Looking for some advice here from the seasoned members. Fancy booking a little last minute trip to PortAventura (as I seem to be the only member not yet going), does anyone have any advice about the place. I'm particularly worried about crowd levels, as most of what I've read suggests this is a great park that becomes almost unbearable when it gets busy. Would be looking at going early to mid-June, which is a couple of weeks before Spanish schools break up, but will it still be rammed? Also, has anyone stayed in the official hotels? Are they any good? Can't see much to choose between them, but would prefer one that is a little more sedate. They all seem to be on incredibly cheap offers (seems to be showing me £186 for 2 nights for 2 people with park included?!

1. Nemesis - you can travel all around the world, and go on B & Ms that dwarf Nemesis in size and scale, but they rarely match the sheer intensity of this classic. I don't make it to Towers super often, but it always amazes me just how good Nemesis is - the force it provides seems to defy the physics of it being a fairly small coaster in that hole. Amazing to look at as well, I can't think of another coaster anyway that has used to 'roar' of a coaster train to such effect. Very nostalgic for me as well - my first 'big' coaster (little did I know that it would still be my favourite), caused me to cry, as I was about to board with Tic-Tac boxes under my heels (I know, naughty naughty!), but I loved it and have never looked back. I'm struggling to rank the next three - they all deliver but have fundamental flaws, so this order could change on any given day. 2. The Swarm - an exciting and original ride, which as others have said has provided Thorpe with a new level of coaster. It's just sooo short. 3. Air - fails to deliver in intensity but I really like what it does do - ie simulate flight. I find it quite serene and very fun. I suspect that if I went on some more modern flyers I would realise that Air 'failed' in some respects, but for the moment I really like it 4. Oblivion - another very nostalgic ride for me. 1998 was my first visit to AT, and Oblivion created this amazing atmosphere around it. Logic should say that it ought to have lost it's appeal by now - beyond vertical drops are commonplace - but there's still something wonderfully effective about that drop. Can't escape the fact that it is very much a one trick pony though. And lastly, 5. Nemesis Inferno - to be honest, this ride doesn't do a huge amount for me anymore.. Ridden it too much, but I also think of it as the definition of the average 'big' coaster. It's exciting, has some good moments, but it's very unmemorable and unambitious. Having ridden plenty of B&M inverters, this just falls way short of what they're capable of. Look at Black Mamba - a similar scale - and see what Inferno lacks.

The former. What are they going to do with the information they will receive - that most people would like to see rides based on the most popular films. Star Wars, Avengers, Batman etc. Somehow I don't see Chessington getting the rights to these.

With this budget information in mind, I'm beginning to question whether Zufari was the best use of investment. It's a great idea in theory and a good fit for the park, but whilst I haven't been on it yet general word seems to be middling and I dont see it having the long term appeal that, for example, a decent coaster would. I hope some decent investment continues and Chessington can continue to expand their ride offerings over the next few years - theres a massive black hole of investment that has left it far behind other parks. On a side note, this is something I've been wondering for a while. Where did the land uses for Zufari come from? Have they always owned it? If so, why was such a big bit of space never used before? Also, is using such a large space for one ride going to be a good idea in the years to come?

Okay, decided to do a trip report as I went to Thorpe for the first time in AGES yesterday. I should probably explain - I used to go loads but kind of fell out of love with the place, for many reasons, and haven't been back since until yesterday. Was interesting to go back. Firstly, despite a lot of criticism, the park looks to me a lot nicer than it used to. I'm not sure whether it's because it's the start of the season, and it was quiet yesterday, but I was very impressed with the tidiness and the effort that has obviously gone into the flowerbeds and foliage. Colossus area looks amazing compared to last time I was there now that the foliage has grown a bit., and the whole Lost City area in particular looks really good. Anyway, onto the report proper: The day started very badly. £4 for car parking is such a rip off. Even worse is the security. I can't remember having ever been confronted with such a ridiculously over-zealous entrance procedure anywhere. I can understand why Thorpe need to do this (to stop drugs getting in), but this is NOT the way to greet people to the park. If they need to be this detailed surely an X-ray machine would be more appropriate? If not, since this is supposed to be a fun place to be (rather than, say, entering a prison), maybe they could encourage the team to have even the tiniest sense of humour and the smallest piece of common sense. Emptying my pockets onto a table, only to be told that it had to go in a box, only for him to take everything out of the box was weird. Then he went through every pocket of my wallet. Then, having already wasted enough time I showed him my cigarette box contained just that, when he told me to put it down so he could open it himself. By this point me and my girlfriend were actually laughing (else we'd have been seriously pissed off), which probably made us look like *****s, but seriously, this is not the way to greet people. The security at Disney were SO friendly and nowhere near as thorough. If they need to be this over the top at least employ people who can do it with a smile on their face to distract from what's going on! Then, knowing the park was quiet, we waited a good half an hour for Swarm and this is all due to the crappy one train policy. I CANNOT understand how terrible a business must be for their logic to run like this. Rather than, having charged people a lot to get in, ensuring they have as productive and enjoyable day as possible, they'd rather piss everyone off in queues to make them pay even more. But is this sustainable? Luckily it was quiet, but are people really going to keep coming back if all they think of is queuing? Surely the priority should be to keep the queues as short as possible as ultimately this is what people remember about theme parks. Anyway, aside from these two niggles, I had a fantastic day. This is almost entirely due to the fact that the park was dead - walking straight onto most rides, including Swarm once they'd added a second train. One of the reasons I started hating Thorpe was because it always seemed to involve massive queues with really annoying people, but I can't say we had any problems. The park must be quieter than it was because I can't remember it ever being like this in the early noughties, especially on a nice day. Strolling through the Stealth queue and remembering the hours I'd spent in there was quite nice. Being asked if I wanted to go round again on a ride as big as Saw is the level of quietness I haven't experienced since I was young in the mid 1990s, when Chessington frequently opened to hardly anyone and we were allowed to go round and round on Dragon River! Unbelievably this is the first time I've been since not only Swarm, but also SAW opened. So here are my thoughts on both: Saw: I actually love this ride. Let's get it out the way, it is ROUGH, in fact not rough but painful. It doesn't so much rattle as throw you round in your restraint. Aside from this, it's great! I'm an absolute sucker for coasters with a dark ride element, and whilst I think more could have been done with this, the first drop is one of the best moments on any coaster I've ever been on and the low inline is cool (especially with that squirting body below!).. I love the station area - nothing is more exciting than a coaster going directly into a pitch black dark ride portion! Looks so cool (serious, SERIOUS, geekage!). I hate the Saw films but the theme here fits so perfectly with a rollercoaster that I can forgive it. Much preferred going on the second of the two batched carriages though so you get the whole speech from Jigsaw rather than just a weird cackle. Lift hill and first drop are amazing, a great piece of airtime, a dive drop and loop which could pass for a genuine torture instrument rather than a pretend one. This ride is just class. Swarm - again, a fantastic ride. Wing Riders are a fantastic idea, and I seriously doubt there's a much better element out there than the first drop on this. The area is beautifully themed (though I bet the operators wish they'd done in with theming if it meant having a roof over the church!), and, again, the concept works really really well. The main problem here is simply one of length. These are obviously big rides, and there simply isn't the space to make a bigger ride, but it's such an anti-climax on any ride that is this short and leaves you feeling like you didn't really get a full experience. It all works well, but there's just not enough track for it to be a classic ride. It's main achievement was making me SERIOUSLY want to go on one of those massive American ones because B & M have seriously excelled themselves with this concept. Backwards adds not much to the ride for me. You need to see where you're going as 50% of a roller coasters excitement comes from anticipation and the combination of senses. We all drive faster in our cars - its the combination of wind rushing into your face, and seeing track fall far below you, the creates the effect. Not much else to say. The X retheme is terrible. Was never a good ride, but now it's all light and facing forwards its even worse. The stopping bits just seem ridiculous without the concept of "how do we get out?", the light shows what a poxy little coaster it is, which is fine if its secrets are kept in pitch black. Storm Surge looks horrific. Colossus is getting nearly as rough as that one from Parc Asterix - time they invested in similar head cushions? Bar 360 was a lovely place to sit at lunch - helped that it was quiet and we could therefore afford to spend the best part of an hour relaxing in the sun but the food was nice and this felt a world away from the Thorpe of old. Finally, as I see it's traditional, here's a ride count: Swarm x 4 Stealth x 2 Colossus x 1 Saw x 3 Nemesis Inferno x 1 Rush x 2 Vortex x 2 Samurai x 2 Loggers Leap x 1 X x 1 Thanks, if anyone bothered reading all that!

The best retheme they could do is to put one or even better two properly themes dark sections in the ride. Something once you go into the dragons mouth and something on the slow bit before 2nd drop. Something not too major like Pirate Falls at Legoland would be fine. Presumably it can't happen on the pre drop because of weight limit. Can dream though!

I might be being cynical but the way I read the retheme statement is that theyre not going to invest enough to reinstate the previous theming, so this is a little marketing sop to suggest that suggest it's a new 'concept' rather than a hatchet job. Why do I get the feeling that we could be seeing plywood painted with Buddha faces around the drop? This just seems very much a way to dress up a 'we're not spending much on this' situation.

That's all very well but it's a whole year operating in that state. Going by the Disney theory of total immersion - its not really good enough to say 'oh we'll get it done soon', the minute those rocks are taken down you're not in mystic east, you're in a utilities warehouse. There's no reason the ride couldn't have had some major work over the close season - it could have even closed early last year (since water rides are less popular at the tail end of a season) and been back looking brand new for the start of the season. Also, they never replaced the last bit of theming they had to tear down (the rocks on the lift hill) so its not like this is without precedent.

I can't actually believe how awful that looks. Never really realised just how close the Tomb Blaster building was behind it - or what those rocks covered up. What I can't believe even more, is that those in charge of the park have SO little pride in it that they're happy to leave the ride looking like that just to save the money it would cost to replace them. It is a sad indication of how shoddy the UK park industry is that this kind of thing happens - to put it short, those in charge of these parks literally don't care about them beyond their money-making capability.

My earliest memories are of Chessington back when it had 'Circus World' (roughly where Wild Asia is now).Remember it having a circus (obviously) and it was the original home of the Rodeo - then called The Juggler - I think it was set at an angle rather than flat on the ground. Only other things I remember that aren't there any more are a big giraffe enclosure where Rameses Revenge is now, the Chessington train (can anyone tell me what route it took? All I remember is the Toytown Station). I seem to remember a mini train operating as well - whose tracks you could see for a long time after (and possibly even today) around the area between Mexicana and Forbidden Kingdom. I have loads of old Chessington maps, going back to the year Rameses Revenge was installed - sadly I lost the one from the year before that) As for the retired rides - been on them all except Space Station Zero and The Fifth Dimension.

Out of interest, why do you rate the Paris version of TOT higher than Florida? Both are amazing rides, but the forwards movement in the Florida one kinda puts it into a different league for me.

Loved the trip report, Pluk. Having just been to DLRP for the first time in probably 15 years I thought I would add a few thoughts here (the main DLRP thread seems a bit dead!). Starting with the Studios - this is one of the most ridiculous parks I've been in. It's not bad, by any means, it looks lovely and has one amazing ride and several good ones, but it is just so small! I don't mind underdeveloped theme parks, but when it's a Disney park it seems pretty unforgivable that after over 10 years of operation it is still in this half-baked state. The main problem, to me, seems to be the baffling decision to go down the 'Studios' route. I'm not clear on timings, but by the time this park was being built it must have been clear from elsewhere (Disney Hollywood Studios, Universal Studios Orlando) that the romantic idea of a theme park attached to a working studios was outmoded - both in terms of failures to actually keep the studios working and in terms of attractions people want to ride. Presumably it was chosen as it is a good excuse to go cheap - there's a justification for theming to look 'fake' as its all part of a 'set'. Even so, it now looks very silly that DLRP went down this route, and with new attractions (and the closure of the Backlot tour) it's clearly an idea that is already dead in the water, leaving a park with a massive identity crisis and its main raison d'etre (not pretentious, we're in France!) gone. I read an interesting article somewhere about the park - and the best thing in it was comparing the Flying Carpets of Agrabah in Paris to the equivalent attraction in Tokyo DisneySea (google it), the difference really shows how Paris was shafted with this park. Anyway, if we accept that this is really a park themed around movies, not the process of moviemaking, it's next problem, and here's the really criminal one, is the low capacity rides. I would love to have gone on Crush's Coaster, but by the time the ride had OPENED for the day the queue was an hour, and when we left Studios (after doing TWO rides) it was at 90 minutes - this on a day when over at Disneyland Park, the coasters were between walk on and 20 minutes. It's just crazy that they would have put in a Maurer Sohne like this. Similar story in Toy Story Playland - RC Racer had a 50 minute queue. This coaster can't have been expensive for Disney, and it has a tiny footprint - why aren't there two of them next to each other? it's think kind of crap that stops Paris being as good as WDW. As for Disneyland park - it's really really nice. Indiana Jones and Space Mountain get a really bad rap for being rough. The American Disney fans (who don't seem to go to any other kind of parks) act as if going on them is a genuinely risky decision, to me they just seemed standard old Vekomas - rattly but not ridiculously so. The Temple of Peril is a pretty bad coaster - but it's nicely themed and has a great fast small loop, I like the short mine cart style trains as well. Space Mountain is a great ride - I'm sure it would be stunningly average if it wasn't dark, but the launch is great and it's a fun ride. BTM is, obviously, amazing. Being on its own island adds something over the American versions, and these are great mine trains - the only thing it lacks is a bit more airtime, but either way it's an amazingly themed family coaster. As for the rest of the park - there's not actually a massive amount to do. Pirates and Snow White were both closed. The Fantasyland dark rides are a joke - dated and short - these should be about 10 minute queues but because there's been no upgrade Peter Pan was 80 minues and Pinocchio was 30. We really enjoyed Phantom Manor - but why oh why is there that awful lift first - it's an invitation for French rudeness to come to the fore, and very claustrophobic. Riding Star Tours was ridiculously nostalgic - I used to think this was the best ride I'd ever been on - it's really really naff now! With the rumours around that DLRP will be the first Disney park to benefit from Disney's Star Wars acquisiton, it seems that this will become Star Tours 2;0, along with a shop and a Cantina! Frankly, I'm not fussed about simulators anymore, and this sounds like a very underwhelming development. It was funny seeing Star Tours now though, really quiet and tucked away at the back of Discoveryland, almost forgotten - last time I came it was the main draw and Michael Jackson was all over it! Anyway, tl:dr, I understand! I really enjoyed my visit. I was very sceptical of going - but it's better than I thought it would be, it definetely has that Disney magic which I didn't think it would now that I can compare if to the Florida parks. It's nice to know that I can have a good Disney experiece on my doorstep (relatively), and I will be visiting again when Ratatouille opens. (Oh and finally, on Ratatouille, whilst it looks amazing and all - what Studios needs is rides, rides, rides. Sounds like they will blow most of their upgrade budget on this and no matter how good it is, one ride is not enough)

Watched the POV and frankly this looks to be a major major disappointment. - 1:02 - when he talks about the 'ancient' rock carvings, just as a really obvious door appears in the fake rocks - 2:31 - where they couldn't even be bothered to put fake rock work an extra 8 inches to the top of the building. - The general lack of landscaping is shocking. it looks like a drive around a badly run zoo. - The cave finale looks nicely themed, but the lack of story around it makes it completely naff. The on board audio seems to stop (notice the little kid actually asking 'what's happening?'), and you drive to the only bit of the ride that appears to have had any major work done (with a hilariously crap sign - '"Danger cave"), for about 2 seconds of water effects and the audio saying "thought we'd lost you." It just doesn't seem to work a the moment as a part of the 'plot,' and rather feels very tacked on. The obvious comparison for this ride is Kilimanjaro Safaris. Now, I'm not an idiot, I understand that Disney have much more money to play with, but from looking at this POV it seems that if Merlin (who lets not forget, are the world's second biggest theme park operator) can't compete a little better then they probably shouldn't try with rides like this. I wasn't expecting a massive, 18 minute, lushly themed fake safari, but I think they could have come up with something a lot better than what we've got. Now obviously one should probably ride this before being too harsh, but realistically, looking at the scenery and landscaping, I don't see how this is going to work very well. Chessington will have to hope the animals are feeling active.

Completely crazy that something with this low capacity, that pretty much everyone on park will want to experience, is using fasttrack. More proof that Thorpe literally don't care about guest experience. Something which is being advertised as 'New for 2013' that had an already low capacity of 8 will now probably be 4 or 6 for those who aren't willing to stump up a load more cash. Horrible, horrible business.

Oh come now. It comes across as astoundingly narrow minded but with such ignorance its hardly offensive. My favourite bit of the 'rant' is the claim that it has been 'like it for years' but is simultaneously a 'sign of these desperate times' (a rather cryptic statement which I can only assume means something to do with economic downturn and rise in unemployment). Surely it can't be both of these things!

Looking around at other theme parks as I do, Merlin's prices are not so out of line with theme parks of their stature around Europe/USA. In terms of their ride line up Merlin would probably say that their price is fair - although this only tells half the story since what they fail to do is provide a fully rounded entertaining day out. Of course we'd all love to see cheaper prices, but I'd be much happier to see improved customer relations, aesthetic improvements, and generally attempts to make a day at a Merlin park a satisfying experience beyond the rides themselves, If this were the case, I don't think £30 is really so bad for a day's entertainment nowadays.

Wait, are you seriously telling me you're old enough to have a job? *picksjawofffloor* That was abuse, my previous post wasn't. I said what you were saying sounded silly and you seemed belligerent. That's very different to just abusing you. My point is, do you ever actually read anything people say to you? We're going round in circles because you're so hung up on what level of knowledge that you have that you've missed the point that it's not a question of facts, it's a question of who the individual chooses to place the blame on. This act of yours where you try and fob everyone off with telling people how much you know (although not actually being able to share anything useful) is tedious in the extreme. Even if you do know as much about everything as you claim, trust me that knowledge in any field is useless unless you know how to use it. That doesn;t mean shouting at everyone that you know more than them, that means being able to argue more convincingly than them. Despite lots of huffing and puffing over several threads I'm still yet to see you actually do this.