PJ.

And if your house burnt down because the fire service were at Thorpe would you still think that?


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It’s good, but also hilarious 😂😂😂
 

Can Shawn Sandbrooke and his dad please do a restoration of Loggers Leap

Nothing much to add to this discussion really, other than it's been an interesting read!
 
I can't see the future looking too bright for DBGTROTD and would agree with @JoshC. to be honest... can't see that it will open in 2020 at all. It would take quite some retheme to change it to something else minus VR. It has been, and is going to continue to be, a huge problem for the park.
 
One thing I will say - and have always said - the show building exterior (generally), the pre-show, and above all else, the Victorian carriage exterior, the tube train interiors, the Underground station and the fake shop (minus the guy in the white t-shirt) are all pretty much world class - and I say that without a sense of irony at all. They've nailed those.  It's just such a shame that the rest has always been a bit of a confused mess. Maybe that bodes well for keeping it and rehashing it to something else, I don't know. For it to be removed in it's entirity after the Derren IP expires, or before, would be unheard of - but I don't think it's out of the question. The money pot isn't never ending, and there comes a point where you have to admit defeat, especially with the added complication of coronavirus (and the very valid points about the storyline featuring corona symptoms, plus people probably not wanting doom and gloom when they can finally go to a theme park after all this has passed) - it's going to be morbidly fascinating what happens next.

I remember the period of around 2013-2015 where all Thorpe fans banged on about was Thorpe getting a dark ride. Josh C nailed it, they just got the wrong dark ride. I look at rides like Gruffalo, Wallace and Gromit, Symoblica and wonder why they hell we didn't get something on that level. 

I think the investment needs to be taken with a bit of context.
 
Thorpe do have a decent range of coasters for a park of their size. Not perfect, and in this day, not as varied as others, but still decent. Around 2014 (when planning for Ghost Train was in full swing), plenty of people were crying out for something different. And Thorpe needed a dark ride.
 
It was still a huge risk to opt for a dark ride over a coaster, and one that in hindsight really hasn't paid off. But at the same time, when this was announced and being constructed, the overwhelming majority thought it was a good idea.
 
The issue isn't that Thorpe didn't build a coaster, the issue is that they built the wrong dark ride. 

I think it is such a shame more isn’t made of looking at the suspended carriage. I don’t understand why they got Derren to pose from this angle when we never get to see if from there. Would be awesome to start off looking up and then going up the stairs.
 

 
 
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I can see that leg ticklers wouldn't really work, you'd see them as you board before the lights go out (they're just flexible tubing). The screens, fog and all that are what's interesting,  I wonder how much was actually installed before being removed or just mothballed.

There must be a solution to using the ride system to its full potential as a simulator ride. It's the designers' job to come up with a solution and make it work as an experience, but it would take money not a quick rehash with some actors. Also as far as I know (might be wrong) Simworx built it without VR in mind to be rolled out to other parks in the future. It would be a shame to waste the  ride system which was by far the best thing about the ride in my opinion.

I would absolutely love for them to effectively make a documentary about the experience.
 
Whilst it has fallen flat and is a failed experiment, there's still a ton of thought, effort and work that went into it from a variety of different parties. Even just the designing of the experience, communicating what they were trying to accomplish would be interesting. Then seeing how it all works - a kind of grand reveal of how a magic trick works - could be great too. I'm sure a lot of people would be underwhelmed to see how it works, but it's still interesting all the same.
 
I doubt we'll ever get anything that in depth. Even a longer video of how the ride system works feels like a stretch. But we can still dream.

If it is totally closed I hope they film the experience in action from all angles.


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Prior to launch in 2016, the park drew up a rough contingency plan for what would happen if the VR totally failed. And I mean totally failed. As in they got to a point where using VR was a complete impossibility, and they *had* to get the ride open. It was a rough plan, and I doubt the park ever would have truly considered it, but it effectively made use of planted actors (who would become 'infected' by the gases and turn crazy), the screens near the top of the carriages to communicate a story and a more 'live' experience in generally. As I say, and as far as I understand, this was very much a quick and rough plan drawn up in case absolutely everything failed, but wasn't exactly considered as a serious option.
 
It would certainly be feasible for the park to implement something like this. It effectively just requires to hiring of extra actors and the writing of more scripts. Again though, I highly doubt the park actually would do this, especially given the feedback to the ride so far.
 
Ghost Train was meant to have more effects that did not make it into the ride. Leg ticklers I believe were bought but never installed, for example. The point early on in the process where the windows were meant to be screens is another example. These things are much harder to solve and introduce retrospectively too.
 
What does this means for Ghost Train's future though? I believe the Derren Brown IP contract is multiple years (6 I heard). Whether there's any break in the contract is anyone's guess. Obviously things like a global pandemic aren't top priorities to be talked about when drawing up contracts for IPs for rides. So it would be interesting to see what happens. But then, what do they do with the space? Do they totally gut it out and put something new inside? Transform the ride system into some form of immersive tunnel (which, with the ride system currently in place isn't impossible, but likely expensive)? Completely remove the whole thing? They *could* leave it SBNO and transform the inside for Fright Nights attractions, but again that's costly and also leaves a giant elephant in the room.
 
Another potential issue: could there be a negative public reaction to the theme of the ride? If you piece and twist it together, it's all about a respiratory thing causing illness. In this day and age, I could see some people trying to twist it...
 
In my opinion, it's very hard to see Ghost Train opening in the mid-term. Certainly not this year, even if the park reopens. If we work on the timeframe of no vaccine till autumn next year, it's hard to see it reopen next year. After that, the contract could be up.
 
There's the more global problems as well about what this means for VR in the entertainment and leisure industry in general. But also, what about 3D rides? It's less of a problem as they've been around a lot longer and cleaning them is easier. But I still reckon many people will feel less comfortable wearing them. And it does mean parks have to be more careful and thorough washing them (and I'm sure there's plenty of parks who aren't..). That's going to be an interesting step for the industry.
 
So yeah, tl;dr. I can't see Ghost Train reopening any time soon. A true reimagining of it will cost millions to do well. They're left with a giant elephant in the room which completely screws them up any way.

The reality is that photo is photo shopped, since from that angle you would in real life be able to see the illusion techniques (mirrors) and the ride mechanism from there

Not sure if this has been posted here before (I don't think I've seen it before), but a BTS video from Figment - the company who did the VR - of Ghost Train...
 
At about 50 seconds there's a particularly insightful look at how the ride looks when running.
 

Thorpe probably needs less closed SBNO flat rides to be honest.

They are including anyone in the virtual sections.


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They are including anyone in the virtual sections.


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This is exactly what I think it should be! A real ghost train.

I still can't believe they took out the live scene, the only good part of the entire experience.

Good on you for being positive! Far more generous than I'd have been! 😂

Is it that grand though from the tight angle you see it from?


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The other issue on top of that is some disabled people will require two people to transfer for whatever reason...
 
3 is an ok number of accompanying carers, but it needs to be flat out adhered too...

Loggers didn’t closed because it was in disrepair though - it was more because im guessing they didn’t get the budget to make all the modifications which falls has seen. I do fully believe at its time of closing the plan was genuinely to reopen it.

So me and my other half have just got back from a 4 day trip - one day at Chessington and three at Thorpe. Very mixed trip which I’ll summarise in bullet points.
 
- Operations at Thorpe were (for the most part) very, very good. Two trains on all the major coasters (and TWD) every day and rapid dispatches. Chessington really needs work in that area though!
- Our ride on DBGT wasn’t bad, pretty much all of the effects were working well and it had hardly any downtime whilst we were on park. Only reason we went on though is because we had an hour of fast track for it included with the hotel stay, otherwise we wouldn’t have bothered. It’s bad that, for a ride that was supposed to be so re-rideable, we see pretty much absolutely no reason to go back on anymore. It needs to go.
- BounceZilla is a complete and utter monstrosity and we thought it looked mortifying for all involved. I’d imagine it’s probably quite fun, yes, but this should not be at Thorpe Park imo.
- Jungle Escape has flopped harder than anyone could have expected. We didn’t see anyone queuing or going in, or even glancing at it, whilst at the park. Considered giving it a go, but didn’t think it was worth the £10pp upcharge for what seems to more or less be IAC in sheep’s clothing.
- Went in GameFX for 45 mins or so when it was raining yesterday and was moderately impressed. Good variety of consoles and games, and plenty of them to go around. The VR experience also looked good fun. It was pretty quiet though, on a busy day when it was pouring down outside. Evidence that maybe people don’t want to go to a theme park and play video games? ?
- TWD:TR has improved since last year imo. Not sure why or how, but I enjoyed it a lot more this year. Much better experience with live actors than without for me personally as well.
- Quantum still looks a week or two away from finally opening this year to me. We watched it being worked on and it was tested a few times (that we saw), but it isn’t making a great sound when sent on it’s full cycle ?
- Best ride on Vortex that I’ve ever had, it’s running so well this year.
- Old Town looks as sorry as ever. I’m not going to even bring up SBNO rides as everyone already knows the situation!
- I’ve always had a soft spot for Thorpe Shark, however after this visit I think the park desperately needs a proper hotel. We stayed in a tiny Travelodge room after Chessington and it felt so, so, so spacious compared to the shipping containers.
- I’ve not been to Chessington before but I think I preferred it to Thorpe, which I didn’t think would happen considering the target markets (not that anyone, including Merlin, knows what Thorpe’s really is). Better theming, better atmosphere, better maintenance. However Thorpe definitely wins on the operations front.
- Impressed with the 40th anniversary merch on offer. They should be doing more to commemorate it than selling new stuff though.
- We left 2 hours early today due to the queue times. Our fault for (mistakenly) booking during half term but there you go!
 
Apologies for the long post! Just some thoughts on what will probably be my only visit this year. My second to worst visit that I’ve ever had unfortunately.

I have to say, today was the best I think I have ever seen Thorpe - in both appearance and operations. It is clear that they have really pulled their socks up!
 
Mist effect was working on Nemesis Inferno - a lot!
Fire on Swarm (skimmers still missing though)
Smoke effect on Stealth's launch
Squirting water on Saw's body (plus the lights and hammers)
 
Operations were spot on.. Even Colossus was quicker than usual. Swarm was often leaving the station before the previous train had returned - resulting in a walk-on from around 1pm
 
There was a really great buzz on park today too. It was clear that they had prepped for it to be far busier than it was.. but that didn't stop there being a great vibe around the place. 

Plans change..