Return of Reserve N Ride?

[TPJames]

Hi all,

I was just having a look at the thorpe website and I've noticed a feature on it.

https://www.thorpepark.com/tickets-passes/ticket-information/

When you click on tickets the options come up, RESERVE N RIDE, is the last on the list however risk still there. However, when you click on it, it comes up with an error message! My question is mainly aimed at thorpe however it takes a while to do a direct message to them so I was wondering if anyone knew if they had plans to bring back the system?

Many thanks.

[dragon2000]

Was at the park yesterday and if it was similar to today the following applies:

 

Using R&R you can get on the major coasters within the first hour. Hardly anyone in the park was using the system until midday. After midday once a lot of 'normal guests' have caught on to the system and have seen that standing in the standby queues is painfully slow, the R&R wait times spike to (in our case) 45mins (Colossus, Swarm), 1.5 (Inferno, Stealth, or 3.5 hours (SAW!).

 

Unfortunately yesterday we had some bad experiences with R&R from midday onwards.

1. Large amounts of people hanging outside the return entrances blocking people with valid return codes from being able to get scanned.

 

2. After returning at the required time, still having to wait anywhere from 20mins-45mins more to actually get on the ride! The SAW station yesterday was absolute chaos. The staff actually lost control against a queue of paid fastrack guests who decided they had had enough of waiting, un-clipped the chain and the entirety of that queue marched up the stairs to the station and pushed in front of everyone waiting.

 

3. Rides like Zodiac, Vortex, Samurai got bigger queues than normal filled with R&R people waiting out their coaster return times. We ended up waiting 40mins for the bloomin' Flying Fish!! You don't really have a choice of much to do...

 

Out of those, I think my main point is if you have waited an hour or in the case of SAW 3.5 hours using R&R, you really don't expect to come at your return time and then have to wait another 20mins+! Sometimes yesterday it seemed like the standby queue was getting priority over the R&R return queue. IMO, if you choose to join the standby queue you have to accept that R&R people will take priority over you.

 

Shame... it was working really well until midday.

[JoshC.]

One thing which I've noticed people say is about the "unfair ratios" of RnR to people who queue normally, and the long queue times that people have to wait if they queue normally.  Surely that shows the system is in fact working well...

 

Say Saw had a 60 minute queue for people who decided to queue normally - which it did at one point yesterday - and (if there's ratios favouring Fastrack and RnR) only 2 out of the 8 cars let normal guests on.  Then, there's only gonna be around 200-250 people actually normally queueing for the ride (assuming Saw's throughput is between 800-1000).  Assuming the same for the other four coasters, then you're looking at 1000 people queueing for the major 5 coasters.  If all the 'ordinary' queues for coasters are longer, then you're still only looking at 1500-2000 at most queueing for the actual coasters.  

 

Using the system yesterday, was able to get on the rides very quickly after checking in.  I certainly wouldn't have got all 5 major coasters done during the day if RnR wasn't operating, since I wouldn't want to bother with the queues.

 

If those people had to use RnR, and you spread them across the entire park and the 10-15ish rides that could possibly appeal to them, then at this stage, it will give a noticeable, but not particularly huge, increase to ride queue times, as well as boost up virtual waiting times.  I want to see the park try just virtual queueing on the coasters, but at the moment, it's probably a step too far given the limited line up to do.  So the normal queueing option - whilst confusing and weird and whatnot - is a good idea at the moment.

 

What they need to do now is increase the attraction line up.  High throughput rides would be great, but they also need shows, non-rides, etc. to give more alternatives and to keep everyone entertained.  That way, the virtual queueing will work, and there's enough attractions to be able to cope.  The fact that, for the most part, the non-coasters aren't that much more busier at the moment, shows that the park don't actually need that much more for this to be achievable.  I'd even say that if the park could get a season-round show in the arena / Hideaway and CCR back, they could realistically try it next season.  Couple more high throughput rides and attraction in the next couple of years and they could attempt to roll it out to more and more rides as well.

 

Long story short - I think RnR is getting to a stage where it's working well.  The system seems a lot better than in the past, and these trials are coming back positive.  I don't think it'll be that difficult to roll it out to having the coasters to be virtual queue and Fastrack only.  

 

 

Couple of other points.  People mentioning about the fact your can reserve rides when not on park.  It is a flaw, yes, and it is something which would be good to be sorted out.  However, I don't think it's too big a deal?  I doubt there's many people who have nothing better to do than book a place in a queue on a roller coaster just to annoy some other people.  Some people could do it if they're arriving after the park opens, but I imagine that's a smaller problem since most people will arrive within the first hour of opening.  

 

I know many have mentioned the flaw how multiple people from one group can reserve different rides.  This is something which could be abused, yes, however I wonder how much it affects to queues.  I personally doubt it will affect the overall park waiting times if it happened, but I guess that's only something you can know if you compare the two cases..

 

If a ride has a long virtual queue, I don't think that's a big deal.  Just shows it's popular surely?  It's not fun having to plan your day out at a theme park in a way such that you have to say "Right, we have 3 hours till we can ride this ride...", and that's something that Thorpe can improve by having more things to do on park.  

 

 

tl;dr - For RnR to be truly successful, the park needs to give guests more things to do.  The trials they're doing at the moment seem promising however.  Don't knock it til you've tried it either!

[Project LC]

To make clear I have tried it, one on full and the other was an initial trial just on swarm when it was the only way to queue, and you could see that the other rides had longer queues. Also I think you will find that the people in the main queue are using the system from midday onwards. There is nothing stopping people from reserving one ride and queuing for another. The virtual wait times are actually ridiculous. They have gone from queue times containing 5000 people to the full 15,000 people on park. Hence the 3 hour waits. Come next season that will still be the case. Everyone in the park will be using the system so virtual waits will be around 2-3 hours and the flats will be amazingly high as well because the normal coaster queues no longer exist. They need around another 5 flats around the 1000pph mark to compensate for the closure of the queues which is not going to happen. The system benefits 2nd time visitors and people who don't visit often. 1st time visitors still wont get on anything as all rides will be 2-3 hour waits. Recurring visitors know what rides they like and will find a very limited line up for them. Year 1 will see a boost in people because of the gimmick however towards the end of the season and the following years will see a massive drop in people.

[Benin]

Year 1 would only see a boost if the feedback is positive...

The positive feedback atm seems to come from that not many guests are currently it (though in one example on here, after people started to use it things went problematic), and what happened in the previous trials when everyone had to use it again?

There was a reason why these trials started to have a standby queue again...

[Project LC]

It is not possible to operate this gimmick without the main queues. I would also like to point out that a majority of good feedback is coming from people who used it in the morning. When the system isn't working how it will be becuase in the morning no one knows about it. So those people are getting on instantly and therefore like it. However what the system will actually function like cant be seen becuase the main queues are still open and no one knows about it. I really want to see thorpe park trail the system with no standby queue to see the effects. Then management can have a nice long review and see how the system isnt solving anything. The coaster queues are now 2-3 hours long instead of 40-90 minutes so people cant get on as many. The flat rides will then suffer as there queues go up and you have more and more unhappy fastrack people as they have made them pay for what others are getting for free.

 

Is there something wrong with it today? only swarm and nemesis have a queue time. I highly doubt the others are at 0 minutes.

[Mitchada04]

The system is fine today. The park is dead, 0 minute queues for everything due to the horrible weather.

[Project LC]

Are you on park or are you looking at the RnR thing? As of an hour ago I could no longer access RnR. the highest time I saw was 40 minutes for nemesis. 

I think that this system can work on quite days however on busy days like saturdays and summer holidays I dont think it can work.

[Mitchada04]

Not on park but I know that there are no queues. Not using R'n'R I'm using people I know who are at the park.

[Project LC]

Oh ok, I thought it would be quiet. I will give thorpe park one good thing, the system works when no one is using it. 

[JoshC.]

Clearly some people are just not a fan of the system at all (which is fine; everyone can have their own opinion).  Perhaps the only way for some to be convinced by it is to see it be a success.

 

From what I can tell on social media (look through Facebook / search for Reserve n' Ride on Twitter), there's been more positive feedback than negative feedback.  Given that people are more inclined to post negative feedback on social media, I think that shows some sort of promise for the system, and I'm pretty sure the overall feedback (ie - not just from social media) is more positive than negative at the moment.  And that will be based on everyone who's used it at any time.

 

This seems to be one of those things which needs looking at from a casual visitor's perspective:

-In the past, on a busy day in the Summer, you may well have queued two hours for Saw, then 20 minutes for Rush, 40 minutes for Loggers (say).  RnR could feasibly give rise to a situation where you virtually queue for Saw for just over two hours, whilst also doing Rush with a 50 minute queues and Loggers with a 70 minute queue (since the queues for non-RnR rides will increase) at the same time.  

-So, previously, you could have done 3 rides in 3 hours.  But RnR could let you do 3 rides in just over 2 hours.  

 

From a casual visitor's perspective, RnR is better.  Even though you queue longer for the flat rides, you get rides done in a shorter time period.  Of course, that's all really hypothetical, but it's definitely a plausible outcome of RnR.

 

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Reserve n' Ride has potential to work well.  Guests are understanding it, seeing that it works, and the actual system itself is having less technical problems.  The trials are promising too.  With some more attractions added to the line up to keep guests occupied, I truly do think it can work.

[Project LC]

I do understand that and your post makes sense. However It is only good if you are wanting to wait for the flats. I have had many a day at Thorpe where we have been on 1 flat and have just spent the day queueing for coasters. If I have paid to get in and travelled to get there I expect to go on what I want rather than be forced to ride some flats I don't care about or find thrilling. I would be annoyed if I waited 50 minutes for a ride on swing B when I could have just queued an hour to go on stealth under the old system.

[JoshC.]

On the other hand though, most guests won't just ride the coasters.  They'll ride the flats, the water rides, etc.  Of course, the coasters will be the big draw, but it won't be the only thing which defines a person's visit.

 

I get that for some people, the new system may affect how many times you can reride a coaster or whatever.  However, it has the possibility to allow people to get on more rides during their day, which is what most people want at the end of the day!  The system has the capability to please more people than displease.

[Project LC]

It does have the ability to please but so did the old system of actually queuing. It was using basic free market mechanisms but using time instead of money. Its always best to leave it to the free market than intervene. many other parks think queueing works, well in fact all of them think queuing works. Its the years of neglect and poor investment choices which have led to the creation of RnR to try and solve a problem which shouldn't be there. If they had enough rides with good throughputs long queues wouldn't be a problem. The fact they are even considering this system should be huge warning signs that somewhere the park has gone wrong. Longer opening hours, better operations and more rides are an easy fix but instead they want to try this stupid RnR. I'm starting to think that this system will work when there isn't many people in the park but when it gets busy again it just wont work. 

[THORPE PARK]

Hi everyone,

 

Very interesting to read all your feedback and some of the very passionate viewpoints on this topic.

 

Over the weekend the feedback from guests at the Resort using the system has been incredibly positive. We do take on board all comments, both positive and negative, and that is the reason we are running the trials - as a test to fully road test the system and see what potential pitfalls there are for us to overcome before rolling this out as a permanent feature.

 

We are not ignoring the issue of additional guests on the Resort who will no longer be standing in coaster queues, and this is one of the reasons we have invested in live bands performing on Saturdays over the summer this year, as well as every day over the Bank Holiday weekend when RNR was running.

 

We have implemented RNR to improve the experience of our guests, and from the vast majority of feedback we've received, this has been successful, but we are continually reviewing and making improvements to our processes based on learnings from the trials.

[Project LC]

You cant really get accurate feedback unless you test it in the conditions it is going to be used in. For example yesterdays test may as well be irrelevant as no one was in the park anyway. They would have all said it was fantastic with or without the system. The best way to get feedback is to not ask them directly as they are going to be kind. They will tell you it is good regardless of their actual opinion. If a virtual wait for saw in the summer is going to be around 3 hours then many just wont visit. It means that 1/3rd of their day is spent waiting for saw. The chances of those people finding a way to spend those 3 hours perfectly isn't going to happen. What was once 30minutes for rush 45 minutes for loggers and 90 minutes for saw is now 50 minutes for rush 70 for loggers spend remaining time waiting for rnr to finish as no queue is the length they are after. Then finally get on saw after the 3 hour wait. It works out exactly the same or slightly worse as they cant join a queue if it is going to clash. Yes you can tell me there is a lot of good feedback but what is that relative to? A first time visitor cant tell you its better than before. A 2nd time visitor cant tell you either because it is completely dependent on their previous visit. The only accurate feedback you are going to get is from visitors which go there often. I would strongly advise looking at the feedback from annual pass holders in more detail as I imagine they will give a more accurate picture.

[THORPE PARK]

Hi Project LC,

 

We trialled it all weekend and the Park was very busy Friday, Saturday and Sunday as you'd expect from a Bank Holiday weekend.

 

We don't just take feedback directly from guests on the day, we also use a post visit survey and all feedback from social media, which comes from a mix of regular visitors and Annual Passholders.

We're sorry you don't agree with the system, but the majority of guests are very positive about the impact it has on their visit so we're confident that this is the right thing for us to do.

[TPJames]

Hi thorpe park,

I have a question. Are you planning on making RNR the only way to queue for the coasters next year? If so, I think it is wrong that you are taking surveys and opinions from people when it's being trialled under complete different circumstances. If you are making this the only way to queue, I strongly suggest you use it under the circumstances you will in the future.

Please can you confirm this for many of us on here,

Thanks

[Benin]

I think that's what needs to be considered, currently, the scheme is operating with BOTH the normal standby queue AND Fastrack in operation... As a result, those who are using it get to have Fastrack for free as has been mentioned, being able to skip 45 minute queues for free will of course create some bias towards the scheme's point and overall existance...

 

As a result, the next trial needs to follow the conditions that are planned to be set out and not involve the standby queue existing at all... Only then can we truly judge the success of this scheme...

[J.S217]

^Or abolish fast track for good and have RnR and standby and then see what happens

[Fred]

The thing which, judging from feedback, is the main reason people are enjoying it is because its providing shorter queues than the main queue without having to pay for it.

 

Obviously if people used the system, then the queues would be long, and it'd be great to see the feedback or if it diminishes in the afternoon.

 

Fair play to Thorpe for trialling it though - it'll be more expensive to run staff wise, they have the equipment (unless Accesso is doing everything for free...), and they're doing additional things to try and keep guests entertained. I'd absolutely hate to see what their Fastrack figures are at the moment (and can only imagine Fastrack would reduce in price/increase in allocation if only to maintain the same cashflow).

 

All in all, a very expensive way of improving experience and reducing your margins, when all you really need to do is invest in high capacity rides and then ensure the staff are running these at high capacity without putting bonkers operation rules in there to slow it down. Then suddenly guests have a good day, they enjoy themselves, and it's cost them bugger all really.

[Project LC]

Not only more rides they could just open longer. Stay open until 10 in the summer, offer cheaper tickets if you enter the park after 4. Now you can make more money and people will be able to get on everything. They do it in every other country I don't see why it wont work in the UK. The main reason this is getting good feedback is for the exact reason Fred gave. No one knows about it so no one is using it so the queues virtually are shorter than the real thing (Except Saturday afternoon). My general consensus is that the majority of people in this thread are against the idea and I would be inclined to say that the people in this thread will give a much more detailed and more accurate feedback. 

[Fred]

I don't think extended opening hours work - they did this til 10pm a few years ago and was completely dead. People are still very much in the mindset of arriving around 11 and leaving around 5-7pm.

 

You would think that if any parks would've grasped how eradicate queues it would be Disney. Yes, they're trialling Standby+ and going mental (see http://www.themeparktourist.com/features/20140815/28078/4-theme-busting-changes-walt-disney-world-should-consider-reversing), however most of their editions are to... improve the queue experience. Or still have people around the queues anyway. Fastpass+ has huge difficulties and this is on same level as Thorpe.

 

 

Just really don't see it's worth it, reading the other topic and hearing how many staff they're investing in a free system is utterly bonkers!

[Project LC]

They could just improve the queue lines. If they got the TV's working then they could introduce games, show off a few facts about the rides and maybe play music videos. You would only need about a 6 hour cycle and I'm sure it would make guests happier. It certainly made the queues at cedar point fun. I think cedar point called it Fun TV and it made the whole experience far more enjoyable. Instead of repeating the same news story over and over for hours on end they could make the place interesting and distract the people in the park from the fact they are queuing. There is so many other things Thorpe could have and should have tried before investing in RnR.

[THORPE PARK]

. No one knows about it so no one is using it so the queues virtually are shorter than the real thing (Except Saturday afternoon).

 

We had around 80% of visitors in the Resort using the system over the weekend actually, and the system was the only way to ride Colossus and SAW - The Ride on Monday and Tuesday.

[TPJames]

Would be appreciated if you answered my question THORPE PARK instead of avoiding it completely.

Thank you.