Alton Towers General Discussion

[Glitch]

Still don’t understand why we are celebrating a new flat ride, which is essentially replacing a similar ride from a while ago…. Will a submission revamp be next? 
 

Will be interesting to see how people view Bianca’s legacy going forward…. But I guess that’s restrained on the budget given by Merlin. 

[Inferno]

It is an interesting one - because all the investment amounts to nothing genuinely “new”.  It’s all just maintenance of what’s been there for years - or decades.

 

Nemesis isn’t new.

Skyride isn’t new (if it ever gets here)

Hex isn’t new

Alton Manor isn’t really new

And Ripsaw-on-a-plinth isn’t new.

 

Really despite all the money being spent, nothing is really happening in terms of driving it forward is it?

And yet even so, it’s on its knees.

 

[Mark9]

19 hours ago, JoshC. said:

And of course, if you don't want to do a coaster, you've got few options. Hex, Granny, Blade, Curse, Sub Terra, Rapids or Battle Galleons are the main options. Battle Galleons is more of a warm weather ride. Rapids are shut. Blade, Curse and Sub Terra are located very close together, in a more isolated area of the park. Granny is more a kids ride. Your options getting crossed off very quickly.

 

 

 

This is true. Then you factor in that out of those rides only Blade and Curse of Alton Manor are open all day as Hex, Granny, Sub terra open at 11 and Battle Galleons closes at Dusk.  

 

It really stuck me on Monday how one decision can literally make your entire day. We headed to the Smiler (due to open at 10:30) and at 10:45 it was clear that it wasn't going to open. I've been stung by the Smiler before and we decided to bail. Good move too as it broke down around 1pm and we wouldn't have got our ride, we would have wasted the first three hours completely. We actually headed to Hex, as we got up there, Thirteen went down. Nothing open at all at the back of the park. It was absurd to be honest. 

[Inferno]

Dear oh dear that’s not good at all.

 

Although it seems that the last couple of days have been a lot better at AT thankfully.

 

I can’t help but wonder if Alton suffer a little bit from over-cautious checks and more elaborate restart procedures after the Smiler crash.  I’d be willing to bet that other parks sometimes take little liberties here and there to cut the time it takes to get a ride up and running again, but of course Alton simply can’t do that - and nor should they.

 

I don’t know anything about these procedures of course - but I seem to remember, for example, a phone and advance button was added to the Smiler’s boundary fence for an engineer to be posted at during a restart so they can check for stalled trains or whatever.  All of this stuff takes time and extra staff - preventing them from being able to go and deal with another ride should it be down. Things like that must really slow down the tech team’s ability to multitask. (For good reason, but still)

 

I have to say I do feel for the maintenance staff. It can’t be an easy job, and when there’s a list of rides down, each one being almost literally a mile away from each other, it’s a no-win situation.

[Benin]

https://www.altontowers.com/about-alton-towers/blog/winter-update/

 

Good start to 2025 then. 2 rides going with Dungeons also not coming back.

 

But hey at least Ripsaw is being replaced.

[JoshC.]

Interesting lack of mention regarding Skyride. 

 

Also makes you wonder what the point of all the work to the Blade was a couple of years ago if it's still hit its end of life

 

57 minutes ago, Benin said:

But hey at least Ripsaw is being replaced.

 

I'm sure they'll get a new pirate ship in 2033

[Mark9]

3 hours ago, Benin said:

https://www.altontowers.com/about-alton-towers/blog/winter-update/

 

Good start to 2025 then. 2 rides going with Dungeons also not coming back.

 

But hey at least Ripsaw is being replaced.

 

 

It's pretty shocking actually. I completely understand that Blade is coming to the end of its life, arguably it has been for years. But why are they not replacing it with anything? Not even another 'Pirate ship'. It leaves Forbidden Valley as a completely 1.4 metre area. 

 

Flavios Fandango; Their little text is absolutely laughable. Talking about how it was required because of how capacity stricken everything was because of covid. What a load of rubbish to remove it now then, if anything the capacity issues remain the same if not worse now. I'm not surprised about dungeons, another completely misjudged attraction built because some marketing guru thought it would make sense but did nothing for the park at any point. 

 

Beyond the wonderful way they bought back Nemesis, this season has been shocking and it doesn't look to be getting any better in 2025. A top spin doesn't even scratch the surface. 

[JoshC.]

2 minutes ago, Mark9 said:

I completely understand that Blade is coming to the end of its life, arguably it has been for years.

 

It was sort of on borrowed time, but also not really.

 

It was due to be removed in 2015, rumoured to make way for SW8, but then those plans were shelved (and ultimately completely changed) following the Smiler incident.

 

But then in 2019, it underwent a heavy refurb (being completely removed, etc). If that refurb really only added a few extra years to it before it hit end of life, was it worth it? Why couldn't they spend a little bit more to get an entirely new one? 

 

And this is the thing: it's poor decision making from the past, along with difficult / questionable decision making in the present causing a real issue for the park right now.

[Matt 236]

I’m not disappointed about the removal of an old ride, I’m disappointed in the way they have handled this and how the park’s already thin lineup will be more noticeable as a result.

 

Its always one step forwards and two steps back no matter what they do.

[Inferno]

Oh dear.

 

I do feel for the marketing people who have been tasked with making all this seem like “good news”.

 

The Dungeons going I can understand to be fair as it must have been a money pit.

 

The lack of any mention of the Skyride is very concerning.  I think it’s now essential really that is makes a return at the beginning of the season, or at the VERY least before summer.

[Benin]

Dungeons being an upcharge was always going to put it at a disadvantage. Especially given the general cost to visit the parks these days. However to essentially have it mothballed into a Scarefest only building (most likely result) is a bit meh. Always enjoyed a ride on Charlie, even if it was a bit crap.

 

If things were being replaced quickly then it wouldn't be a problem. Project Horizon has gone quiet so that corner of the park will continue to be a bit of a dead spot, and the lack of anything for kids too old for CBeebies but not at the height/level for Thirteen and others is just daft. Even if a 0.9m kid (I.e. my 2 year old) could go on Hex and Alty Mans, doesn't mean they are suitable attractions for the age content/theme wise. The RMT queues will continue to be insane.

 

With us still being in the CBeebies age range we're still in a decent position to visit. But in a few years? Would be a different story.

[JoshC.]

21 minutes ago, Benin said:

Dungeons being an upcharge was always going to put it at a disadvantage. Especially given the general cost to visit the parks these days.

 

Location certainly didn't help either. Can't help but feel if it was based somewhere that could have been accessible to hotel guests and it ran into the evenings, would have been a much more sensible and viable decision.

 

Then again, we all know this, as that's exactly what was said when it was announced and built.

[Inferno]

On the subject of Project Horizon - could this perhaps have been scrapped for AT and instead put forward for Chessington?  The design seems quite similar?

 

To me this feels like another one of those nicely-thought-out plans that have unfortunately fallen through, because really I think everyone knew that Dungeons and all the David Walliams stuff was going to only be short-term, and would be at the end of life by the time Horizon opened.  It would have all been quite well timed for a nice refresh of the whole area.

Unfortunately it's now looking like everything in that area of the park has either reached or will soon reach the end of life, and their replacement is nowhere to be seen.

[Benin]

32 minutes ago, Inferno said:

On the subject of Project Horizon - could this perhaps have been scrapped for AT and instead put forward for Chessington?  The design seems quite similar?

 

Short answer is no.

 

Long answer is noooooooooo.

 

Think there were enough differences that it's not a "actually we'll put it here instead" situation. Although personally I thought having ANOTHER coaster wasn't the best idea for Towers anyway.

[Parm Pap]

the valley pit stands quiet the budget still enforced the paths are even clear of guests and staff

 

 

like some photo hill as sun the scaffold spreads its wings, the people build their top and bolt their spin

 

 

the lady's giving dinner to the directors' choice his eldest ride is learning how to close

 

 

the midways are all hushed and tense

 

 

directors drawing cards

 

 

which will be the cutback in the dawn?

[Inferno]

The next looming problem appears to be the Monorail, which has been limping for years and this season has been on massively reduced capacity.

That, like Skyride, is going to cost literally millions I would imagine.

 

I do feel for the current management at Alton - they have inherited a problem where they need to almost literally rebuild half a theme park from scratch - and it all needs to happen in the next few years, with apparently £0 in the budget.

 

I don’t really know how they get out of this mess now… It seems they are p***ing in the wind a little bit. They are needing to spend vast amounts of money on simply maintaining and restoring old assets (like the Skyride for instance) at a time when really they need to be investing more in the future.

 

The glory days around the time Saw, Th13teen, Smiler etc opened, and they opened a new midway every 20 seconds, where Merlin seemed unstoppable, seem to have all been an illusion because it looks like they were spending next to no money at all on long term maintenance and upkeep at the parks. It was all about the ‘now’.

[Benin]

Short-termism triumphed. Like any investment broker such as Blackstone.

 

Most parks tend to invest in the new stuff and maintenance. Probably tie it into a loss of engineering knowledge (an issue across the industry, not just theme parks) and maintenance needs a good budget.

 

But they made these cutback decisions after Smiler and Covid. So I have little sympathy.

[Matt 236]

Unfortunately Towers has been in quite the mess now for at least a decade now, although some would argue for the last twenty years even. 
 

The 90’s was clearly the park’s golden age, but even the 2000’s weren’t without its issues with theming cutbacks and removed rides. The early Merlin years saw some optimism with the likes of Mutiny Bay & Thirteen, but even they were short lived with neglected upkeep both in terms of appearance and infrastructure. There was a brief lull with Wickerman opening maybe. 
 

The problem with Merlin is they run their parks like a financial cookie cutter, where each attraction/division gets x amount of money and there is only so much they receive. And with the board failing to reach KPI’s  and the like will only implement more cutbacks at present. The cost of living situation and Brexit are no doubt making this even more difficult.
 

Towers like others in the Merlin portfolio needs millions spending on all its infrastructure, both front and back of house, however they are only going to do this when it needs to happen and no doubt it’ll be done in the cheapest and easiest way possible. Hence why so much looks like it’s still 1992 with just a cheap bit of paint slapped on. 

[Matt N]

I think the main issue with Blade and Flávio’s going is that it makes an already thinned out lineup for the middle ground family audience even thinner.

 

In my view, it’s not really a flat ride issue, as we have got the Top Spin coming next year which somewhat counteracts Blade’s removal, but instead more of a middle ground whole family ride issue. The Blade was a key stalwart of Alton Towers’ middle ground family lineup, so with that gone, an already squeezed demographic is taking even more of a hit.

[Benin]

 

http://www.instagram.com/p/DDze8PdtZIn/?igsh=c3I4cnJrbjh1bXVz

 

Sod using links to that awful social media cesspit these days. Get some alternative embeds in lads.

 

New kiddie/junior coaster being looked at for 2026. Good for cred whores (especially ones like me who now won't look dodgy when waiting for it), bad for those who wanted to go on Project Horizon.

[Inferno]

It’s good they’re staying on top of Cebeebies land with new stuff now and then. It’s up there with the best of the kids lands in the UK.

 

Horizon is well and truly shelved isn’t it

[JoshC.]

Additions to CBeebies Land are good. Another coaster isn't the worst option either.

 

On the subject of Project Horizon, who knows what's happening with it. But if the rumours of it being an indoor coaster (Intamin Multi Dimensional) are true, then I've mixed thoughts. By no means a bad thing to introduce something like that, but the park need flat rides desperately more than dark rides or coasters imo.

[Mark9]

Isn't a top spin good enough for you Josh. I'm shocked!

 

I'd throw in a pair of nebulas and an intamin gyro swing just for starters. This is Towers, they can work around the height and nebula are the greatest flat ride ever created. They can't go on like this.

[Matt 236]

Guess they are getting a new coaster after all in 26. Just not the one everyone was expecting.

 

Location isn’t set in stone, but guess Postman Pat might’ve dispatched his last parcel.

[Vinlarr89]

Biggest problem for towers is what’s next… I see this becoming a problem too for Thorpe in the not too distant future. 
 

Oblivion- actually think this ride can have some significant maintenance and continue without too much issue. 
 

Galactica- needs significant investment and a new theme. Several million 

 

Rita - will require replacement within next 10 years. Tens of millions. 
 

On top of this

 

X sector- new flat ride required

Dark Forest - new flat ride required

Forbidden Valley - replacement for blade now required

 

My Biggest issue with the recent strategy is this. 
 

Millions and millions have been spent to end up with the same ride line up that previously existed. And because of the state of above millions more will have to be spent to tread water so to speak. 
 

Thorpe will have to start planning for replacing the likes of stealth and even Colossus at some point which will put them in a similar predicament.