JoshC.

Coming up with some cracking posts the last couple of weeks Benin, even by your high standards. Keep it up

Storm Surge was a good investment for the park.

Rocky Express remained untouched all this year. It will now not be viable to try and reopen it elsewhere. Rocky Express is not reopening at Thorpe Park, or any other theme park.

As a genuine question here, what is the park's current brand identity? Because I honestly could not say, and don't think Thorpe could give you a straight answer either!

Thorpe are doing a survey about their current logo, what people like and dislike: https://t.co/WRV4QQPYYq I know in the past it's been discussed about changing the logo (on a number of different occasions), so this could be a step into that direction. In the past, they've obviously lent onto the infinity symbol (with polo shirts featuring just that, the Infinity Bar and Grill, etc), so wonder if they're thinking of going with that more, or something more drastic.

I'll be making my television debut and appearing on classic quiz show Countdown! My debut is this Friday (Oct 28th), airing at 2.10pm on Channel 4, and of course available on catch up after. There'll also be a bit of geeky chatter and roller coaster puns, because of course they run with me being a roller coaster enthusiast and turned it into my entire personality (not far wrong tbf). Would be lovely if anyone gave my episodes a watch!

Whilst I appreciate the excitement, no. Smiler cost something in the region of £18m. Nemesis Sub Terra, when built new, cost something in the region of £4-6m. So if they're spending say £5m on the Duel refurb, Alton Towers are not going to spend 2-3 times the original cost of the ride to refurb Sub Terra. Next year will not see the park invest more than they did for Smiler. I do agree with your core point though. A Duel refurb and reopening Sub Terra will cost a fair amount of money. The addition of a brand new flat ride adds more to that, especially when Enterprise's closure and removal seems to have come as a bit of a surprise (or, at least, was not the original plan).

Apocalypse is almost 200ft tall. Given Towers' height restrictions, it wouldn't go unless they built a huge pit, which we'd already have seen construction of. Rocky Express is condemned to the junkyard. It will not return anywhere.

This isn't just a ghost train. This is MY ghost train. This is... Noel Edmonds' Ghost Train: Rise of the Deal or no Deal.

There's a difference between suspended coaster and inverted coaster here. Suspended coasters, a la Vampire, have the ability to sway and swing. Inverted coasters, a la Nemesis, do not. Vampire was the UK's first suspended coaster, Nemesis the UK's and Europe's) first inverted coaster. It's a pretty fernickty and largely pointless difference tbf. As for Vampire retracking and potential planning permission. I believe the Nemesis application wasn't a full application, and instead something that was done to check the legality of doing it without full permission. And indeed I believe full permission is not required. So that could be the case for a like-for-like track replacement. The trickier thing is that the location of Vampire is much more contentious. There's a long standing and believable rumour that if Chessington removed Vampire, they wouldn't be able to use that space for a new ride due to its location. Would the council, and locals, really be a fan of a retracking job?

Ahhh, I was on park yesterday (15th October). It was a busy day, though by no means full. In fairness to Thorpe, I was impressed by the operations by and large. Long queues, yes, but most felt well managed. But that's not for the Fright Nights thread. Once again, the park are having issues with timed tickets. At 7pm, Survival Games had a queue which reached back to pretty much the gate by the Swarm toilets. Staff were saying it was 1-2 hours. For people with package deals, that meant if you did Survival Games then, you'd likely have no chance to do the other two mazes. The attitude from a few staff on the ground was very indifferent to this too; little care about the fact that people who bought a package would be out of pocket effectively. Also lots of people seem unaware that Trailers is 'meant' to be the first maze people do with the packages (it is a hidden sentence in the details of the package). It's also completely irrelevant and not something which has to be done. Also seems like the packages don't have strict time slots, meaning people can do mazes whenever (and, for whatever reason, choose to do them when it's dark). It's all a bit of a mess. As I had a one shot ticket for Survival Games, I braved the 1-2 hour queue and it took about 90mins. And I'll give the creative and operational sides their dues here. The queue moved well. They weren't over-batching (group sizes no larger than 12). It is tempting to over-batch to clear the queue, at the cost of creating a weaker experience, but I'm glad they didn't give into that temptation. And the maze itself was good. Was it Press Night good? No. Was it better than the runthrough I had last Friday though? Yes. A good number of actors, all very lively, and everything worked well. I think the main criticism I have about the maze would be the ending. Actors can effectively choose when people leave the maze, especially the ones by the exit. But they have no clue how long they've been in the maze. They can spend 5 minutes in the multi route 'arena' section of the experience before making they're way to the exit, or they could be there for 30 second and get there straight away. It creates wildly different experiences, and can leave those latter people short changed. It would be good if actors at the exit actively turned away people when they first discover the exit area, giving people more of a chance to explore the arena. Obviously that's incredibly difficult to do, as it involves the actors recognising faces in low light repeatedly, but if they can find a way to do it, it would be fantastic. In terms of the other two mazes, I know people managed to get Trailers and Creek Freak done in the same time I go Survival Games done. That's a solid 45mins to dedicate per maze, and doesn't match up with the 2 hour limit they suggest when booking. So some more stuff needs sorting out there. I think, realistically, people should (and probably do) expect a queue for mazes on busy days, even when buying tickets. But the lengths of queues at this moment in time is too long on busy days. And really, no Thorpe maze at the moment is worth £10, let alone £10 and a 45min+ queue. That'll end up having a larger knock on effect if things continue.

I rode Derren with @MattyMoo last Friday and echo many of his comments from that experience. I wasn't overly big on Scene 2 with the actors (the lining up against the wall seemed a bit awkward), but did fully appreciate the actor appearing out of nowhere after hiding under the train. That was cool. For all my sins, I rode this again yesterday. The fake shop ending was running! So seems it's not been totally cut. It's a shame it doesn't have the demon costume, but it does seem to get some people. It doesn't quite have the grandeur it should / did have though. The thing that stuck in my mind from my last two experiences, particularly yesterday, is the state of the headsets. My previous visit was awkward as I had to physically hold the headset in place, but others' seemed fine. This time, it seemed like every headset/headphone combo was not well aligned. They were all effectively falling apart. To make my resemble anything that could be called wearable, I had to fully unstrap the headphones, but the straps through the holes they should be going through, and then go through a few other adjustments. Many others did similar levels of faffing. Not a good look. Another bugbear of mine lately is staff having the radios on loud volumes. When the ride opened, I'm sure they had earpieces. Now they do not, meaning you have loud walkie talkie talk going on over you (and also staff talking loudly into them). Just another immersion breaker. If the park decide to keep this in any way, shape or form next year, they need to put some money into the headsets, to make sure they're actually wearable. And just in general making sure the finer details of the experience are thought about again. And making things a bit more reliable. Though maybe it's time to give up the ghost (train) with it?

I agree, the music this Fright Nights isn't great. So many areas which feel rather quiet / dead. There seems to be little variation too, which is a shame. I know it wasn't always the most popular school of thought, but I always really liked the 'Island changes after dark' motif, where Fright Nights music kicked in when the attractions opened. Something just doesn't feel quite right hearing the generic Fright Nights music at noon in the middle of the park. And whilst I wasn't a fan of much of the 2018 event, it did bring out the nicely themed ride announcements based around different fears. Wish the park ran with that a bit more. It's a real, crying shame though. A few years ago the park's audio had improved quite significantly, and there was a team in place to really look after it and continue those improvements. That seems to have dissipated recently and it really does show.

Wouldn't make sense for them to be cut if they're not being used one day, but then being used the next. Seems to be either a creative decision, or perhaps they were waiting on a fix to them. Whilst there's no denying that they look cool, I don't particularly think they add anything to the experience. Very much take it or leave it in my opinion.

Happy enough to play along with silly posts every now and then in certain threads, but please don't create new threads unless necessary.

I'm clearly not the Duel stan I thought I was, because I don't know who Emily Alton is....

Re. the LED masks in Survival Games: They were there on Press Night. One at the start, one at the end. They look cool, yes. But the actors were hard to hear as a result. Whether that was because of the speaker they were using, the music levels in the rooms or what I don't know. But in general, I struggled to hear them. It was indeed a piece of feedback I relayed too. Whether they have decided to scrap them for creative reasons, or because they weren't working, I do not know.

There's been times lately when I've felt really old, especially in the enthusiast / Thorpe community. This comment has successfully made me feel a bit younger. (The worrying thing is that there's lots of geeks out there now who were born after the thing burnt down...but I try not to think about that...)

For what it's worth, I've heard that Blackgang's new attraction won't be a roller coaster. Not necessarily. Alton Towers have a General Development Order in place which means they don't have to submit plans for certain things in certain areas of the park. I think X Sector is part of the area the GDO covers, since for Smiler, all they needed planning for was the station building.

Not entirely the case. As I understand it, the RnR clone was a rushed design and project following the fire, as the park wanted something in that place. This would also suit Tussauds' want to accelerate development at the park, especially since they wanted a coaster for 2001 (the original plan was for Project Odyssey, which became Colossus, to open in 2001). If I remember correctly, the reason the RnR clone fell through was due to infrastructure issues. Something to do with the electrical infrastructure of the park and that needing improvements for a coaster to go in that area I think? But clearly that area had been marked for development for a new coaster for a long time. Would WWH have always been on the chopping block? Impossible to say. It certainly could have survived and been a part of 2000s Thorpe. Despite the lack of dark ride developments by Tussauds, you certainly wouldn't rule out the possibility that they would have turned it into a shooter with a dark scary theme to target the "thrillseeker" audience.

It's almost like if you don't invest in new flat rides and rely on decades old rides something will go wrong. Hope Thorpe are paying attention.

This is obviously great news. As I understand it, what this now means is: -Construction still cannot take place until the Secretary of State has made their decision -Thorpe directly requested the decision go to the Secretary of State, owing to the EA dragging their heels and being uncooperative -Whatever the Secretary of State rules will be pretty much final. The EA could appeal, but as I understand it, that would be unsuccessful -The decision from the Secretary of State seems like it could take up to 22 weeks to be reached. Including time for Christmas breaks, we're looking at mid-March 2023 at the potential latest for a decision. That assumes no delays or other things I don't know about. Obviously it could be significantly quicker though. Now here's the thing. If construction was due to start next month, and gets delayed until say March/April 2023, how significant will that be? Will we see the ride open summer 2024? Or even later in the year? Or do the park pull the executive decision and wait till 2025 to open it? Good news, and I reckon it means Exodus is coming for definite. But when is the big question.

So I'll post my thoughts here. A review will be appearing on TPM later today (which will feature lots of nice pictures), and there's also some more stuff on our Facebook and Twitter of course. I prefix my review as I do every Fright Nights. Yes, I attended the Press Night, and these feature no queues, usually more actors and a sort of 'best representation' of the event. Of course, the point of these events is for influencers and fan sites to go along and post good things regardless of the quality of the event; that's what the TPM main site review will do. This review is my own, honest thoughts of what's gone down. AND of course, spoilers. Survival Games Let's start with the big new thing. I think the first thing that should be said is how big and imposing this looks from the outside. It's really well done. I like the music outside, and there's also similar music inside. The premise of this might sound a bit deeper or more complicated at first. You're effectively auditioning to join a new social media network, and to do that, you go through 'the Survival Games'. If you survive, you join the social media network, if you don't...well, you're dead. This is featured in the pre show and at the end, but outside of that, there is very little story in the maze. Actors have lines which fit in with that idea throughout, but that's about it. This may sound like a negative, but it's not. If anything, it's a positive. The idea of Survival Games is to be chaotic, and that's exactly what it does. Sticking to a long-winded, developed story throughout would harm it. The maze pre show works very well; splitting everyone off into individual cages, before having people individually 'snatched' away. This could be done even more extremely, but obviously a balance has to be made. You then make your way through various scenes before heading to the 'arena'. This is a huge space which takes up about half the space of the maze I reckon. It's completely free flow, with multiple routes, the ability to double back on yourself and very chaotic in general. Actors are everywhere, and do everything they can to intimidate, scare and disorientate you. It's fantastic. The ending of the maze sees you get put through a hidden door (in a bit which feels a bit Black Mirror Labyrinth esque), before being given one final scare. The finale is nothing original or special, but works in context. I have concerns about how well it operate on a standard day, which I raised with some of those responsible for the attraction, and I feel confident it will be well managed. I'm also a bit lost how this is the park's most expensive maze. The theming isn't anything special (though, like with the story, it doesn't need it). I guess a lot goes on the structure and set up. But even then, it surprises me this was a bigger investment than Trailers, which looks a lot better in terms of theming. All in though, I think this is a great experience, and up there with my favourites. It's just so much fun, with levels of drama and chaos you don't see often in mazes. Trailers There's no difference between last year's version of Trailers. All of the scenes have new posters indicating sequels, which is a fun little touch. That's something I'd like to see continued, as well as having scenes replaced every couple of years (having a Creek Freak room for example, in turn allowing for a chainsaw run out finale would work well!). So yes, don't expect any changes, but it's a solid cast and just in general a very lively atmosphere in there. Creek Freak Massacre Again, no real changes here, aside from a slightly difference script in the pre show which references Project Exodus tearing down the sawmill. I had a fun run, but this has never been something I've rated particularly highly. I hope it gets better received than last year. Scare Mazes: Bottom Line A thing which hasn't been noted really is the line up of these 3 mazes is actually Thorpe's 3 most expensive maze investments (or at least, 3 of the top 4). And those investments shine through. Whilst the upcharging of mazes is controversial, if it does result in new stuff having more money thrown at it and ultimately improving the experience, that's a massive win. I still think the upcharges are on the pricey side. Survival Games is worth the £8 outlay as a passholder (especially if you end up in there for 10-15 minutes like I did). £10 is too much in my books. But Trailers and Creek Freak are closer to the £5 price point for me. The Terminal sigh This. This is a thing. It looks terrible outside; no real entrance feature, and just a group of containers. What is The Terminal? It's an audio experience in darkness, so you wear headphone and have a story told to you, with loads of sound effects playing. And that's basically it. You have a pre show in your group. But it is very much just 'sit down and wear headphones'. There's a couple of extra effects, such as air sprays and vibrations. But for me, it doesn't do it. Don't get me wrong, this will get some people. Two people in my batch were terrified and had taken their headphones off at the end. But for those who are a bit braver, it won't do much. And you have to be truly invested in the experience from the word go to get anything out of it. This would be better with more sensory effects. Leg ticklers. Back and butt prodders. Leg grabs. Yes, I'm literally suggesting they take a page out of the Derren Brown Ghost Train book to improve this. But it needs a lot more. In The Terminal, I experienced the worst sensation you can experience in an attraction. Boredom. That about sums it up. Death's Doors So the new scare zone. It has a concept which sounds cool; knocking on doors and see what horror lies behind them. Obviously this has huge operational problems, and I can see them coming to a head soon. The doors are grouped together in blocks, and presumably one or two actors serve a block of doors. Already seems like a problem. One thing which took me by surprise is how...humour-filled the attraction is. Some of the characters include an evil Easter Bunny, an elf who's decapitated Father Christmas, a wicked Siren, etc. A little bit of dark humour works well, and is something which hasn't been featured in Fright Nights so explicitly before. I don't know if people will really expect it or get it as a result, but it's something which was appreciated by me. This feels like an attraction which has been shoehorned a bit for the 'unlock nightmares' tagline for the 21st edition of Fright Nights. The location isn't ideal. The characters don't quite fit the feel or story of the attraction. The ideas are there, but the execution is off. The Crows of Mawkin Meadow This is much the same as last year and good fun. However, there is the addition of a new route making use of the Saw Alive queue line, which takes you through the ruins of the village within the story. It's a nice idea, but doesn't quite work for me. They've partially draped the queue line, but for the most part, it feels like you're walking through a meshed fence queue. It needs more theming to get you immersed and to buy into the idea. Apparently the park did look at a larger solution of partially removing the queue line, but it wasn't financially viable for this Fright Nights. Maybe next year? Amity vs LycanThorpe High Another good, new, dance set, and the same usual fun. Very much seems the be the last year of this vampires vs werewolves, so presumably they have a plan moving forward for what follows. Look forward to seeing that. Birthday Bash Some good humour here (the addition of a grandma character is a big hit in my books). Again, new show, and again, good. Creek Freaks Unchained Didn't see it, but the roaming van they have used for all the events this year has had a Creek Freaks overlay. Legacy A new fire and light show is taking place on the small side of the Beach. It tested after the Press Event for the first time, and ran last night to the public for the first time. Have yet to see it. --- All in, Fright Nights is a fab event this year. They've built off the successes of last year, and have got a very good trio of high quality mazes this year. There's some lowlights, The Terminal in particular, and some potential issues which may come out during normal operation. But this is once again another great Fright Nights, and I'd really recommend going along this year!

With spoilers inevitably coming out tonight from the Press Launch, we now have a Spoiler Thread: Please post anything spoilery there. This thread will remain open for now for those who wish to avoid spoilers.

Tonight is the Press Night for this year's Fright Nights. Naturally spoilers for this year's event will come out. Please post any spoilery things here. Of course, your favourite Thorpe Park centric fan site will be there and posting updates on social media! Keep an eye out as we see if there are nightmares to be unlocked!