pluk Posted July 15, 2016 Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 I've not been on ghost train yet as I've been away. Seeing some of the reliability problems I think I'll wait until the end of summer before giving it a go now, yet things calm down and the problems work themselves out. Surely the headsets are just plug in things and pretty easily interchangeable? Wasn't it blindingly obvious they would require maintenance with constant use and there should be a hefty supply of spares to rotate round as some require work? Seems a bit short sighted to have a significant number of seats out of use due to headsets after just a couple of weeks of opening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted July 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 1 hour ago, pluk said: Surely the headsets are just plug in things and pretty easily interchangeable? Wasn't it blindingly obvious they would require maintenance with constant use and there should be a hefty supply of spares to rotate round as some require work? Seems a bit short sighted to have a significant number of seats out of use due to headsets after just a couple of weeks of opening. Its possible the headsets out of use have another issue such as the machines running them rather than just the headest its self. As you say, im sure they have plenty of spares! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted July 15, 2016 Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 If its a machine thing then it shows how this technology wasn't really ready to be used in such a mass market manner... Might be ahead of the curve as the majority won't have experienced vr before, but technical issues are to be numerous... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pluk Posted July 15, 2016 Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 And after so many years of no decent dark rides being produced in the UK the last thing we need is this one not being able to deliver, hardly going to create any appetite for more to be built in the industry. The same fear I have for the lame looking Towers woodie. This all feels a little short sighted. dragon2000 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted July 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 18 minutes ago, Benin said: If its a machine thing then it shows how this technology wasn't really ready to be used in such a mass market manner... Might be ahead of the curve as the majority won't have experienced vr before, but technical issues are to be numerous... Most new rides open with technical problems, even more so rides using new technologies in different ways. Look at Air when that first opened and its numerous problems, the Intamin Rockets used to be pretty notorious too but run fine now. Quote And after so many years of no decent dark rides being produced in the UK the last thing we need is this one not being able to deliver, hardly going to create any appetite for more to be built in the industry. The same fear I have for the lame looking Towers woodie. This all feels a little short sighted. I wouldn't worry about it not delivering - the vast majority of the feedback from the GP seems overwhelmingly positive - if anything id say it gives us a good chance of Merlin looking to bring more dark rides to the UK. As I said the technical issues are normal for new rides and will be ironed out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celia Mae Posted July 15, 2016 Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 14 hours ago, Martin.C said: Another point of interest is I'm beginning to wonder if these 12 different experiences and 2 different endings that are supposedly offered by the attraction are actually being used. I've ridden this 6 times now and I've had the same first half with only 2 different people and the same ending every time. If you look at the behind the scenes footage broadcast by the BBC a few weeks ago, it showed more characters, different creatures and different speech to before. Have these been scrapped due to technical difficulties with the content during the 8 week delay period or are they not rolling it out just yet? Without them being used, it's literally the same thing every time you ride now, the only difference is you either get a woman or a man on the train with you in the first half of the VR experience. We rode twice during technical rehearsals and we definitely came off wondering as we'd all seen very similar bar the change in people, wether Thorpe had been entirely truthful with the "12 different stories" line, maybe there aren't 12 stories at all but just 12 different variations on the people. There are definitely more than just two variations on the first bit, and it made us wonder why have so many variations of just one story line... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted July 15, 2016 Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 The main worry is, what happens to vr based attractions when either: 1 - Interest in VR dies down. 2 - VR is in every household and its not special anymore. Let's be honest VR is certainly nowhere near as complicated as a mechanical ride system... Comparing these glitches to Air's snapping driveshaft is a very apple and orange... Long term, and after new ride hype dies down will show where we stand in dark rides appetite in the UK... Perhaps short termism will win out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted July 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 Just now, Benin said: Let's be honest VR is certainly nowhere near as complicated as a mechanical ride system... Comparing these glitches to Air's snapping driveshaft is a very apple and orange... Sorry but dont agree - of course VR is not as mechanically complicated - but it certainly extremely complex in other ways - I imagine the software driving this thing is probably more complex than most rides we have in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted July 15, 2016 Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 I'm sure that's the excuse for the dreadful graphics... What will these systems have? A gyroscope, processor, graphics chip? What's the stats for the Samsung or Oculus compared to the Vive? Mean if most VR systems are just using smartphone power then surely the complexity can't be that high? Weren't Figment doubtful about the readiness of VR to such a large scale as well? That in itself rings the bells of alarm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted July 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 The headsets are pretty compex in them selves - they are the best on the market and not really comparable to the samsung phones in a box. http://gizmodo.com/this-is-how-valve-s-amazing-lighthouse-tracking-technol-1705356768 - some info here on the Lighthouse boxes on each train and how that bit works. Then of coruse each headset will be connected to a computer on the train, simultaneously working in sync with each other, syncing up with the train its self and effects on the train. I think you'll find this attraction is a lot more complex than you imagine it to be! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted July 15, 2016 Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 Is it really that complicated though syncing stuff up to computers these days? You just need some hardcore processing power to ensure that its all done as smoothly as possible, its all going along pretty much the same time and effect timings aren't exactly new technology... The first VR section, being live action will be less demanding on the system as well, which is probably why the CGI section is horrid (see also Nintendo doing Star Fox Zero at low res so it could generate two simultaneous views at once at 60fps)... Just because a system is demanding on processing power doesn't mean its complex, especially when there's only a set amount of potential things being streamed... If it were 58 completely different videos, then THAT would be complex... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster Posted July 15, 2016 Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 One of the biggest issues for me is that on a ride so reliant on VR, if a headset doesn't work then there's pretty much no point being on the ride. Compare that to traditional dark rides, where if one effect fails it doesn't ruin the rest of the ride. pluk and dragon2000 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThemeParkCrafter Posted July 15, 2016 Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 Sad thing is that enthusiasts think duel should be removed when 1 small effect is not working. However, virtual reality IS probably going to be the future of theme parks but I think this will be in at least 10 years because of all the issues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster Posted July 15, 2016 Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 10 minutes ago, ThemeParkCrafter said: Sad thing is that enthusiasts think duel should be removed when 1 small effect is not working. However, virtual reality IS probably going to be the future of theme parks but I think this will be in at least 10 years because of all the issues Duel should absolutely not be removed as the hardware and potential is there for it to be a fantastic dark ride once again, it just needs some work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt A Posted July 15, 2016 Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 2 hours ago, Benin said: 1 - Interest in VR dies down. 2 - VR is in every household and its not special anymore. 1 - Probably won't happen as long as VR keeps improving! 2 - While that will likely happen one day, I doubt it will be soon considering the cost and the current state of VR 1 hour ago, Benin said: The first VR section, being live action will be less demanding on the system as well, which is probably why the CGI section is horrid Thing is there is no reason for the computers to render the CGI on the go instead of just playing an already-rendered version of the CGI as there is no interaction from the user involved. The video will always be the same, which makes me wonder a lot as to why it is so low quality, my guess goes to whoever Thorpe hired to make it just isn't very experienced in CGI, or they didn't pay them much! PinfariFan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted July 15, 2016 Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 I do find it funny how people seem assume that this is simply a case of having a computer play a video through a VR headset. It's a lot more than that, and it's certainly understandable why the ride isn't at full capacity right now. The headsets being damaged and not looked already though - I can't defend them on that front, and I am quite dissapointed to hear this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt A Posted July 15, 2016 Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 3 minutes ago, Owen said: I do find it funny how people seem assume that this is simply a case of having a computer play a video through a VR headset. Well what else is it going to be? When it comes down to it VR is a screen in a headset with accelerometers in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted July 15, 2016 Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 This shirt clip of one of the VR segment has appeared online! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted July 15, 2016 Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 Well I'm not going to outright say something am I, but if you just think of it logically if the ride were to simply just play a video, if another train was waiting in one block meaning your train would have to stay put for a little extra time, the video would begin to play segments that dont correlate to the movement of your specific train. If you can understand what I'm trying to say from that great - if not feel free to message me and I can explain it in more detail. My point being that the headsets and their computers are a little more complex than what people would like to believe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted July 15, 2016 Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 It'll just be a similar system of timings like what Disney used for Space Mountain's original soundtrack, which would extend or reduce depending on the train's position... Given that the grey smoke is the loading screen in question, and that the plc will know by the time the ride starts where the others are, I think there's possibly too much being made out of what is common technology... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPJames Posted July 15, 2016 Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 Went on this today and have to say for a park which hasn't produced a decent attraction since the swarm back in 2012, I thought it was absolutely fantastic. The first illusion is brilliant as its so difficult to understand how the whole ride technology works, with the fact that it looks like the train carriage is unable to move(obviously there is more than one carriage operating as well I believe but this confused me so much!) as its tied to the wall by chains yet in reality it does(and I have no clue how this works). The VR technology is fantastic and the fact you can look around you in all directions and immerse yourself in the experience is incredible. The only downside was that I had to hold my head seat on as there were no instructions or time available to adjust it and it was falling off. Considering the fact that I thought it was just the one train journey, to have the first journey, a scene in the middle and then the second train journey is brilliant. The scenes we got were rather awesome too and had me screaming a lot. Yes, it could have been better at times and I think the photo points in the queue line are absolutely stupid(although they didn't stop us in infection check so not sure what this is) but for a new dark ride, considering dark rides is something the UK is seriously lacking, I think it has been executed to a high standard. Obviously the technology is complicated as it opened a few hours late, broke down whilst we were in the queue then closed early which is quite incovenient for most people however we only waited 80 mins with a break down which was reasonable and I think the attraction was worth the wait. The whole queue line was confused however when it broke down and announcements played saying 'There will be a short delay, please remain seated' and suddenly the whole queueline sat down on the ground both annoyed and confused. JoshC., pluk, Matt A and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celia Mae Posted July 15, 2016 Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 I know the VR image you see depends on where you are relative to the train carriage at certain points, for example during a certain scene if you lean forward and look up (let's call what you see 'scenery') the layers of scenery move relative to each other to make sure the angles are correct (so the parallax changes) in the manner of how when you move closer to the window of a car you can see higher up the buildings outside than you could it you were further away. I feel like I haven't explained this very well, but yeah, you're definitely not just watching one video, the perception will change if you move at certain points. huzzellio 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeah Posted July 15, 2016 Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 34 minutes ago, TPJames said: Went on this today and have to say for a park which hasn't produced a decent attraction since the swarm back in 2012, I thought it was absolutely fantastic. when it broke down and announcements played saying 'There will be a short delay, please remain seated' and suddenly the whole queueline sat down on the ground both annoyed and confused. Well Swarm was their last big investment, unless you count a Dodgems which will send you to the kyropractor, a 4D movie and some pig stickers as major. Which I don't. That queueline thing is brilliant, do they not have a separate announcement for the exterior a la Colossus (according to youtube anyway)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pluk Posted July 16, 2016 Report Share Posted July 16, 2016 19 hours ago, ThemeParkCrafter said: enthusiasts think duel should be removed when 1 small effect is not working. Said no one ever? Having just seen how Europa Park use VR on a couple of smaller coasters as a paid extra on a few seats, that seems like a much more sensible approach to introducing VR rather than trying to build a whole million pound new ride entirely dependent on fledgling technology. It's just asking for trouble. Morgan.B, CharlieN and Matt 236 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted July 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2016 1 hour ago, pluk said: Said no one ever? Having just seen how Europa Park use VR on a couple of smaller coasters as a paid extra on a few seats, that seems like a much more sensible approach to introducing VR rather than trying to build a whole million pound new ride entirely dependent on fledgling technology. It's just asking for trouble. Mayve compared to Galactica that would be a fair point but not sure if a ride designed around it suffers the same shortfalls as one having VR bolted on. I genuinely think VR will play an important role in dark rides for years to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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